PD Progression, Grade Structure & Professionalism

[AlphaSigOU]

Same deal with the unwritten tradition that officers do not wear ribbons on the blues shirt, but enlisted are expected to wear their rack.

[a2capt]

"unwritten" = there is no such thing. Show me it in writing, or go pound sand.
"unwritten" is GoB Network bunk.

[Walkman]

Same deal with the unwritten tradition that officers do not wear ribbons on the blues shirt, but enlisted are expected to wear their rack.

I've followed that "tradition" over the years because I was told that this is "how it's done in the AF" by members who were around longer than me (including prior service AF). Just out of curiosity, how many others follow this practice?

[SarDragon]

I wear my ribbons most of the time on my aviator shirt - it's the only place I've got to wear them.

[Grumpy]

I don't wear my blues except on very rare occasions because I'm TDO to be wearing AF blues any more.  My blue golf shirt and gray slacke are more comfortable than my white aviator shirt and gray slacks so that's what I wear.  No need for ribbons.

[Al Sayre]

I only wear my ribbons on my service dress coat, more out of convenience than anything else. 

[Sapper168]

I have a large amount of dermal ink deposited on my arms. I am reguired to wear long sleeves when in AF style blues, so I always wear the service coat.  It has all my CAP and military ribbons and badges on it while the light blue shirt only has name and rank slides.   I always wear my CAP ribbons and a badge on my white Aviator shirt.

[Rick-DEL]

When wearing just the USAF-style shirt, I wear my CAP/USAF ribbons and badges. If I wear the service coat, those items move to the coat. Basically, I always wear them.

[DoubleSecret]

Same deal with the unwritten tradition that officers do not wear ribbons on the blues shirt, but enlisted are expected to wear their rack.

Funny you should mention that one.  I once helped quash a cadet proposal that would have written said "unwritten tradition" for SM NCOs and cadet CMSgt and below.  I pointed out that National already has a uniform policy, Big Blue doesn't mandate the "unwritten tradition," it's not universally followed by USAF officers or enlisted, and CAP cadet officers should lead by example if they expect their juniors to wear ribbons.

Semi-related:  A prior-enlisted USAF captain told me that he was encouraged not to wear his ribbons because he had more than his O-6 group commander.  No organization has a monopoly on pettiness, I guess.

[The CyBorg is destroyed]

From my perspective as a USAF retiree and current CAP member, agreed.  Be a quiet professional, wear the uniform properly, represent us well, and don't be That Guy who triggers a tale that will be exaggerated in the retelling.  Some Airmen will cling determinedly to their anti-CAP mindsets, despite all the professionalism you display.  That's more on them than you.

Which I have always endeavoured to do, almost to the point that when I go on an AFB/AFRB/ANGB I am extremely self-conscious and almost avoid interacting with AF personnel whom I don't know well, other than rendering a salute when required.

What I refuse to do is to be the "whipping boy" for all of those exaggerated tales.

[LGM30GMCC]

The unwritten rule of 2d Lts not saluting 1st Lts in the USAF is likely from the operations-side of the house and general mindset. Because of timing issues, it is possible for a 2d Lt to have more technical, and leadership, experience than a 1st Lt.

Real world example: If someone comes on active duty, goes to a base for casual status for 6 months, pilot training for up to a year, is eliminated, goes to missile training, sits casual for 4-5 months, and is in training for 7 months, by the time they hit the crew force they will have been in for over  two years, and have had no serious responsibility, almost no technical experience in their field, and be on-line crew for maybe a month or two. Meanwhile a 2d Lt who came right on active duty, went straight through training may have 6 months experience on crew already and be closing in on becoming an instructor. Basically, that 2d Lt knows more and is more valuable to the force than the 1st Lt.

Much less applicable to the support side of the house.

Not saying the tradition is right, but that's where things get weird between 'customs' and 'courtesies' when they don't quite line up right. If you are the 2d Lt and salute 1st Lt's and call them sir you will get weird looks, some shrugs, and some comments not to do it, but you will never get in trouble. If you are the 2d Lt who doesn't salute 1st Lt's and a colonel catches you, you might get in trouble. If you are a 1st Lt and get on a 2d Lt and are a jerk about them not saluting you, you will catch serious flak from peers and some superiors.

As to the ribbons on shirts and whatnot: Traditionally many folks will also wear mini wings/badges on the shirt, and full size only on the jacket. I have no idea where that comes from and has been pointed out its not universal. Personally I don't like wearing my ribbons on my shirt, so I don't do it.

[Eclipse]

The "mini" badges don't weigh down the shirt as much, especially if you're not using enforcers,
they are also less ostentatious.

I prefer them on the shirt.

[ColonelJack]

Talking about ribbons on the shirt always makes me remember the experiment with half-sized ribbons, or "miniature" ribbons, as they were called.

Someone who had a lot of fruit salad who tried those ended up looking like a German general from the last war.

Jack

[The CyBorg is destroyed]

Unwritten or not, I did it as a 2nd Lieutenant.

Once when I was going into a base Burger King (yes, the same one) an AFRES 1st Lieutenant in flight suit walked out.

I popped him my best salute and said "Good afternoon, Sir."

He barely brushed his forehead and looked at me like I was starkers (which is another issue entirely).

His problem, not mine.

[The CyBorg is destroyed]

Talking about ribbons on the shirt always makes me remember the experiment with half-sized ribbons, or "miniature" ribbons, as they were called.

Someone who had a lot of fruit salad who tried those ended up looking like a German general from the last war.

Jack

Or my favourite example, the old Warsaw Pact:


East German Air Force General

[Storm Chaser]

^ Are you sure this is not the new service coat for the gray/white corporate uniform?

[Phil Hirons, Jr.]

^ Are you sure this is not the new service coat for the gray/white corporate uniform?

Not a Realtor^TM jacket. Not double breasted for us heavier folk.

Why not?

[arajca]

^ Are you sure this is not the new service coat for the gray/white corporate uniform?

Not a Realtor^TM jacket. Not double breasted for us heavier folk.

Why not?

Too military.

[The CyBorg is destroyed]

^ Are you sure this is not the new service coat for the gray/white corporate uniform?

I wish it were.  It'd be heaps better than the Realtor setup we've got now, it has a service cap, and you can wear ribbons on it!

Not a Realtor^TM jacket. Not double breasted for us heavier folk.

Why not?

Again, courtesy of the former DDR:

Too military.

We sure can't have that.

[Panache]

The unwritten rule of 2d Lts not saluting 1st Lts in the USAF is likely from the operations-side of the house and general mindset. Because of timing issues, it is possible for a 2d Lt to have more technical, and leadership, experience than a 1st Lt.

By that logic, there's no reason for anybody who's E-7 or higher to salute anybody O-3 or lower.