PD Progression, Grade Structure & Professionalism

[FW]

Most of the terms we use in CAP don't have the same meaning as they do in the military and are only used because of tradition and/or to give CAP its paramilitary nature as the Air Force Auxiliary. Take for example the title "commander". Commanders in CAP don't really command in the strict sense of the word. They lead and manage. They don't have real command authority, yet we use the title.

I'd buy that.  Day to day, it's functionally the same thing, but at the road level it's not the
same as the "do it or die" authority of an actual "commander'.

No one below the BoG is an "Officer" either.

An "officer", by definition,  is someone with authority within an organization.

Up until the reorg, Wing CC's were considered corporate officers as they sat on the National Board.
Now they simply have delegated authorization for expenditures and management of their particular state.

The members of the BoG are "Governors"; not officers.  They select (or approve) Corporate Officers (there are 5).  Those Officers appoint, hire, or promote other non corporate officers for selected positions, and may or may not delegate authority to them..... These non corporate officers may have grades from SSgt to Col.  Corporate Officers may have grades from Col to Maj Gen.  Some have no grade, but titles...  All Corporate and Non Corporate officers manage; commanders also lead.

Command Authority?  All commanders in CAP have authority; also responsibility. They do not have "Military Command Authority".

If we get the job done, does it really matter? :angel:

[Storm Chaser]

The five corporate officers (CC/CEO, CV, CO/COO, CFO and GC) are specified in the Constitution & Bylaws. All of these are either appointed and/or confirmed by a majority vote of the BoG.

[The CyBorg is destroyed]

Our status as "officers" has, for those unfamiliar with what Storm Chaser pointed out, a degree of confusion, to say the least.

I have had it go both ways, in terms of "either you is or you ain't."

One airshow where I was doing flightline safety as a First Lieutenant, an AFRES First Lieutenant came up and saluted me.  I returned his salute and said "you don't have to salute me, and anyway we're both the same grade."  He said, "I know, just showing respect to a fellow officer."  Warm fuzzy.

On the same base, at another time (I think I was there for SLS or CLC), some of us CAP officers were on break and eating at the base Burger King (the base Wing King allowed us virtually unlimited use of the BK, dining hall, BX when on CAP activity - warm fuzzy again ).  There were a group of AFRES (I think) NCO's sitting a couple of tables away and, while we could not hear everything they said, what we did hear was along the lines of "those CAP poseurs thinking they're officers getting to use OUR facilities..."

We were told to just "suck it up" and "ignore it" by the CAP brass overseeing us for that activity.  The prevailing attitude then ('94-'95) was "we're already in enough trouble with the Air Force and challenging them on it will just make things worse."

NOT a "warm fuzzy" in the slightest.  We ARE officers - CAP OFFICERS.

[Panache]

On the same base, at another time (I think I was there for SLS or CLC), some of us CAP officers were on break and eating at the base Burger King (the base Wing King allowed us virtually unlimited use of the BK, dining hall, BX when on CAP activity - warm fuzzy again ).  There were a group of AFRES (I think) NCO's sitting a couple of tables away and, while we could not hear everything they said, what we did hear was along the lines of "those CAP poseurs thinking they're officers getting to use OUR facilities..."

Well, I can kind of see their point.  Burger Kings are a rare, precious resource which must be jealously guarded lest some poseurs hoard all their irreplaceable and delicious Whoppers.

NOT a "warm fuzzy" in the slightest.  We ARE officers - CAP OFFICERS.

Not to mention, a pretty high percentage of those are veterans of the "real" military.

[The CyBorg is destroyed]

On the same base, at another time (I think I was there for SLS or CLC), some of us CAP officers were on break and eating at the base Burger King (the base Wing King allowed us virtually unlimited use of the BK, dining hall, BX when on CAP activity - warm fuzzy again ).  There were a group of AFRES (I think) NCO's sitting a couple of tables away and, while we could not hear everything they said, what we did hear was along the lines of "those CAP poseurs thinking they're officers getting to use OUR facilities..."

Well, I can kind of see their point.  Burger Kings are a rare, precious resource which must be jealously guarded lest some poseurs hoard all their irreplaceable and delicious Whoppers.

NOT a "warm fuzzy" in the slightest.  We ARE officers - CAP OFFICERS.

Not to mention, a pretty high percentage of those are veterans of the "real" military.

I think the message on the day in question was "those CAP guys think they're in the Air Force."

In retrospect, I wish I would have gone to them and told them if they had a problem with it, to discuss it with the Brigadier General commanding the base.  Not as a Lieutenant, not as a CAP officer, but just as one human being to another.  It was a crock of Bravo Sierra that we were expected to just "suck it up."

But that's water over the dam.

[Storm Chaser]

^ Not worth getting worked up over it. I doubt that's the sentiment of the majority of AF members. I've always received nothing but support.

[LGM30GMCC]

I was once sitting in emergency war order training (as my AF captainy self) and a 2d Lt started bashing CAP. First I corrected the crap he was spewing, then explained what CAP really did and its value. It was like I had thrown a grenade into his lap. The other Lts around him kinda leaned away and looked away from him. I didn't even say I was a member of CAP. I admit it was entertaining on some level. 

[Storm Chaser]

I'm sure it happens, but that's likely due to misunderstanding or lack of knowledge, not malice or animosity against CAP. Many in the USAF just don't know what CAP does or how it contributes to the Air Force's overall mission. Heck, many in the Air Force are not even aware of AFRCC and its role in inland SAR.

Ideally, we would have a closer relationship with our parent service. But that shouldn't discourage us. The best thing we can do to improve that relationship is to be (and look) professional and do our missions the best we can.

[ZigZag911]

Air Force personnel who bash CAP have generally had a bad experience with one of our members (or know someone who did).

A simple way to improve CAP's image is to be polite, friendly and respectful...these bases are where they live, work and serve their country. Keep in mind that we're "visiting relatives" at best, and try to be good guests!

[DoubleSecret]

Air Force personnel who bash CAP have generally had a bad experience with one of our members (or know someone who did).

A simple way to improve CAP's image is to be polite, friendly and respectful...these bases are where they live, work and serve their country. Keep in mind that we're "visiting relatives" at best, and try to be good guests!

From my perspective as a USAF retiree and current CAP member, agreed.  Be a quiet professional, wear the uniform properly, represent us well, and don't be That Guy who triggers a tale that will be exaggerated in the retelling.  Some Airmen will cling determinedly to their anti-CAP mindsets, despite all the professionalism you display.  That's more on them than you.

[JK657]

One airshow where I was doing flightline safety as a First Lieutenant, an AFRES First Lieutenant came up and saluted me.  I returned his salute and said "you don't have to salute me, and anyway we're both the same grade."  He said, "I know, just showing respect to a fellow officer."  Warm fuzzy.

The only thing I can imagine being more silly than a Second Lieutenant saluting a First Lieutenant is two First Lieutenants saluting each other.

[Panache]

The only thing I can imagine being more silly than a Second Lieutenant saluting a First Lieutenant is two First Lieutenants saluting each other.

How is a Second Lieutenant saluting a First Lieutenant silly?

[Eclipse]

The only thing I can imagine being more silly than a Second Lieutenant saluting a First Lieutenant is two First Lieutenants saluting each other.

How is a Second Lieutenant saluting a First Lieutenant silly?

+1

[DoubleSecret]

The only thing I can imagine being more silly than a Second Lieutenant saluting a First Lieutenant is two First Lieutenants saluting each other.

How is a Second Lieutenant saluting a First Lieutenant silly?

It's not.  That said, there is something of an "unwritten rule" that lieutenants don't salute each other.  I've heard it from more than one lieutenant, and it was important enough to merit at least one colonel's attention:

http://www.goodfellow.af.mil/news/story.asp?id=123204054

[Eclipse]

That said, there is something of an "unwritten rule" that lieutenants don't salute each other.

There's a reason it's "unwritten", and it doesn't apply to CAP, even a little.

[Panache]

It's not.  That said, there is something of an "unwritten rule" that lieutenants don't salute each other.  I've heard it from more than one lieutenant, and it was important enough to merit at least one colonel's attention:

http://www.goodfellow.af.mil/news/story.asp?id=123204054

Must be an Air Force thing.  I've never seen this in practice in the Army.

[PHall]

It's not.  That said, there is something of an "unwritten rule" that lieutenants don't salute each other.  I've heard it from more than one lieutenant, and it was important enough to merit at least one colonel's attention:

http://www.goodfellow.af.mil/news/story.asp?id=123204054

Must be an Air Force thing.  I've never seen this in practice in the Army.

No, but I've seen all over the Air Force, usually at pilot training basses where you have large numbers of 2d Lt's and 1st Lt's.

[DoubleSecret]

That said, there is something of an "unwritten rule" that lieutenants don't salute each other.

There's a reason it's "unwritten", and it doesn't apply to CAP, even a little.

Agreed wholeheartedly, hence my saying "it's not" (silly that a 2d Lt would salute a 1st Lt).  I merely acknowledged the existence of said "unwritten rule."  I don't endorse it. 

[Eclipse]

I actually went back and RTFA'ed, which is an excellent article and should be required reading for new CAP members, too.

[SarDragon]

WIWOAD, the Navy had a similar unwritten policy. Dunno how it is these days; been out for a while.