Seeking opinions of the almighty CAP ES Gods and Goddesses

[pascocap2002]

I have not been active in CAP and CAP operations as I have spend a vast amount of time out of the country from 2006 until now. I have kept my CAP membership and attended meetings while in the states but I really have not been active in CAP.

I am expired:

CUL
FLM
FLS
GTL
GTM-1
GTM-2
GTM-3
MO
MRO
MS
MSO
UDF

Even thought my Eservices says I am expired, can I still wear the badges?

[Alaric]

Yes, per 35-6, one can wear the badges even once they have expired, however you cannot serve in the position until it appears as active on your 101 card

[Storm Chaser]

Any badges you're entitled to should be approved in Ops Quals eServices under ES Awards (CAP Basic and Senior Ground Team Badges, and CAP Emergency Services Patch) and CAP Ratings (CAP Observer Rating).

If they're approved (show green), then you can continue to wear them. If they're not, but you have a CAPF 2A or equivalent documentation showing the award, then upload it in Ops Quals and submit it for approval.

Once the badges or patches have been awarded, the award is permanent.

[jeders]

Once the badges or patches have been awarded, the award is permanent.

Except, I believe, the GES patch requires you to be current in a specialty.

[Storm Chaser]

Once the badges or patches have been awarded, the award is permanent.

Except, I believe, the GES patch requires you to be current in a specialty.

You're correct. You must be current and qualified as a GES and an additional ES specialty to continue to wear the ES Patch according to CAPR 35-6.

[wacapgh]

Once the badges or patches have been awarded, the award is permanent.

Except, I believe, the GES patch requires you to be current in a specialty.

For award of the patch. Once awarded, always worn. The only patch that has to come off if not current is the CPR patch
Table 6-2
NOTES:
1. Any nationally recognized patch awarded by a certifying agency (Heart Association, American Red
Cross, etc.) upon completion of a CPR training course. Patch will be removed when no longer
current.

[Eclipse]

+1 "Current and qualified" for initial award, no verbiage about removing it (other then good taste).

[arajca]

+1 "Current and qualified" for initial award, no verbiage about removing it (other then good tastepersonal preference).

FTFY

[LSThiker]

For award of the patch. Once awarded, always worn. The only patch that has to come off if not current is the CPR patch

The CISM patch also comes off once you are no longer active on a CISM team.

[Storm Chaser]

+1 "Current and qualified" for initial award, no verbiage about removing it (other then good taste).

CAPR 35-6 doesn't have any verbiage about "initial award" either. You have to be current and qualified to be awarded the other ES awards as well, but the ES Patch is the only one that uses the term "current"; the ground team badges, for example, only say "qualified".

This is also the interpretation provided by the CAP Knowledgebase, as stated here:
http://capnhq.custhelp.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/2045/kw/emergency%20services%20patch

[Eclipse]

http://www.capmembers.com/media/cms/u_082203095100.pdf
CAPR 35-6, Page 2
"3. Requirements for Award of the CAP Emergency Services Patch. Current and qualified in accordance with CAPR
60-3, CAP Emergency Services Training and Operational Missions as a general emergency services member with one
additional specialty qualification."

Says nothing about removing it.  That KB answer has nothing to support the assertion.

[Storm Chaser]

Maybe so. But CAPR 35-6 says that you have to be "current" and "qualified" for the ES Patch, while it only says you have to be "qualified" for the Ground Team Badges. Obviously, different people interpret the "current" part of the text differently. How do we know that your interpretation of the regulation is correct, while that of NHQ is not? 

Perhaps the regulation should be more clear and concise on this regard. Regulations should not leave anything open to interpretation.

[Luis R. Ramos]

"Current" and "qualified" only applies to "award," not for "wear." If it applied to not wearing when not current and/or not qualified it would also state so.

Flyer

[Storm Chaser]

So you don't have to be "current" to be awarded the Ground Team Badge, just "qualified"? Hmm... There seems to be a disconnect there since you can't have one without the other.

[Luis R. Ramos]

Storm-

Who did you replied to? It helps if people would name the one they replied to... And if to me, you must realize that sometimes we leave off some part(s) of the message, then go back to correct it but it is like doing piecemeal thinking. Now do not tell me this has not happened to you...?



Flyer

[Eclipse]

So you don't have to be "current" to be awarded the Ground Team Badge, just "qualified"? Hmm... There seems to be a disconnect there since you can't have one without the other.

No.  You can still get the GT badge at NESA and not be current or qualified, or at least you could when 35-6 was last updated.

[Storm Chaser]

So you don't have to be "current" to be awarded the Ground Team Badge, just "qualified"? Hmm... There seems to be a disconnect there since you can't have one without the other.

No.  You can still get the GT badge at NESA and not be current or qualified, or at least you could when 35-6 was last updated.

The exact wording of the regulation for the Basic Ground Team Badge is "1) Be qualified as a CAP ground team member in accordance with the CAP 60-series regulations or 2) Graduate from the CAP National Ground Search And Rescue School Advanced Course or equivalent program..." (emphasis mine) So obviously, you have to be "qualified" as a ground team member (i.e. GTM3) in order to be awarded the badge, if you haven't attended NESA or similar program (by the way, I know of one person who graduated from NESA last year, but didn't get qualified and wasn't awarded the badge). The same is said of CAP aeronautical badges (solo pilot, pilot, ballon pilot, observer, etc.). If you're qualified, though, you are also current, right? The regulation says "Be qualified" not "Have been qualified", correct? Okay.

This same regulation states that you have to be "Current and qualified..." (emphasis mine) to be awarded the ES Patch. Why add "current" only for the patch? If they don't mean what CAP Knowledgebase and others are interpreting, then why use that specific word, which is not used with any other badge in that regulation? It seems to me that if that's not the intent, then adding that extra word just make things confusing.

[Eclipse]

So you don't have to be "current" to be awarded the Ground Team Badge, just "qualified"? Hmm... There seems to be a disconnect there since you can't have one without the other.

No.  You can still get the GT badge at NESA and not be current or qualified, or at least you could when 35-6 was last updated.

The exact wording of the regulation for the Basic Ground Team Badge is "1) Be qualified as a CAP ground team member in accordance with the CAP 60-series regulations or 2) Graduate from the CAP National Ground Search And Rescue School Advanced Course or equivalent program..." (emphasis mine) So obviously, you have to be "qualified" as a ground team member (i.e. GTM3) in order to be awarded the badge, if you haven't attended NESA or similar program (by the way, I know of one person who graduated from NESA last year, but didn't get qualified and wasn't awarded the badge). The same is said of CAP aeronautical badges (solo pilot, pilot, ballon pilot, observer, etc.). If you're qualified, though, you are also current, right? The regulation says "Be qualified" not "Have been qualified", correct? Okay.

The problem is that you're quoting regulations that are no longer in synch.  Back in 2002, when 35-6 was last revised,
it was not only possible, but common for members, especially cadets, to come back from NESA with a GT badge, yet still not
be qualified as GTMs.  Generally this was because of the lack of First Aid training, which many never received or cared about.
They remained in trainee status, and were never qualified, yet were compliant on wearing the GT badge.

This same regulation states that you have to be "Current and qualified..." (emphasis mine) to be awarded the ES Patch. Why add "current" only for the patch? If they don't mean what CAP Knowledgebase and others are interpreting, then why use that specific word, which is not used with any other badge in that regulation? It seems to me that if that's not the intent, then adding that extra word just make things confusing.

Again, 35-6 predates the "permanent" award (at least system-wise) of the patch, or any other badges.

As you say the KB is interpreting, which as were routinely point out is beyond the scope and authority of the SMEs who answer those questions.
The reg indicates how the patch is awarded, and since there is no verbiage anywhere that requires it be removed, there's no interpretation to make.

Why the redundant terms? No idea, especially since in this context "current" and "qualified" mean the exact same thing and are interchangeable.
You can't be "current" without being "qualified" and you can't be "qualified" without being "current".

The only other status' are "Trainee" or "expired", and you can't be "current" or "qualified" when you are "trainee" or "expired".

[SarDragon]

Qualified and current are separate.

Qualified means that you have completed the requirements to hold the position. Current means that you your proficiency is meets or exceeds an established minimum.

For example, a pilots certificate never expires, but his currency does. If he doesn't fly for a number of months/years, all he needs is to pass a medical and demonstrate proficiency in order to fly again. The same system mostly works for ES ratings. In our ES world, if you've lapsed long enough, you get purged from the system, and have to start over.

[Eclipse]

In our ES world, if you've lapsed long enough, you get purged from the system, and have to start over.

You don't get purged, you drop to trainee status.

[pascocap2002]

Qualified and current are separate.

Qualified means that you have completed the requirements to hold the position. Current means that you your proficiency is meets or exceeds an established minimum.

For example, a pilots certificate never expires, but his currency does. If he doesn't fly for a number of months/years, all he needs is to pass a medical and demonstrate proficiency in order to fly again. The same system mostly works for ES ratings. In our ES world, if you've lapsed long enough, you get purged from the system, and have to start over.

This would make some sense to me because I remember in 2003 through 2007, I earned a lot and it was in the system but then I went inactive in the CAP ES world for a few years and I see I am expired in everything and I no longer see where I am allowed to wear the ES awards I earned in the past.

Even though I show expired for the awards, that must have meant that I earned them in the past but yet I was informed by a ES guru in my wing (2 years ago) that I cannot wear the awards (reason was "not enough documentation"). I am confused as to what more needs to be documented. If it shows up in E-Services as have held the achievement in the past and now its expired, then why would it be denied for approval to wear the badge? Sometimes I just don't get it.

[SarDragon]

In our ES world, if you've lapsed long enough, you get purged from the system, and have to start over.

You don't get purged, you drop to trainee status.

I had a couple of long-expired ratings, and, while they may have been deleted at the Wing level, they disappeared from my 101 card. They are not totally gone out of eServices, because they show up as expired in my Skills Evaluator listing. The olde task sign-offs still appear on the SQTRs, too.

YMMV.

[SarDragon]

 

Qualified and current are separate.

Qualified means that you have completed the requirements to hold the position. Current means that you your proficiency is meets or exceeds an established minimum.

For example, a pilots certificate never expires, but his currency does. If he doesn't fly for a number of months/years, all he needs is to pass a medical and demonstrate proficiency in order to fly again. The same system mostly works for ES ratings. In our ES world, if you've lapsed long enough, you get purged from the system, and have to start over.

This would make some sense to me because I remember in 2003 through 2007, I earned a lot and it was in the system but then I went inactive in the CAP ES world for a few years and I see I am expired in everything and I no longer see where I am allowed to wear the ES awards I earned in the past.

Even though I show expired for the awards, that must have meant that I earned them in the past but yet I was informed by a ES guru in my wing (2 years ago) that I cannot wear the awards (reason was "not enough documentation"). I am confused as to what more needs to be documented. If it shows up in E-Services as have held the achievement in the past and now its expired, then why would it be denied for approval to wear the badge? Sometimes I just don't get it.

The awards may never have been formalized (F 2a, or eServices entry). Being qualified, and having the rating awarded are two different things.

The following awards, once awarded, never expire:

CAP Basic Emergency Services Qualification Badge
CAP Senior Emergency Services Qualification Badge
CAP Master Emergency Services Qualification Badge
CAP Basic Ground Team Badge
CAP Senior Ground Team Badge
CAP Master Ground Team Badge
CAP Emergency Services Patch

Also these:

Cadet Pre-Solo Pilot Rating
Solo Pilot Rating
Pilot Rating
Senior Pilot Rating
Command Pilot Rating
Glider Pilot Rating
Balloon Pilot Rating
CAP Observer Rating
CAP Senior Observer Rating
CAP Master Observer Rating

Once awarded, you can wear them forever, unless revoked for cause.

Here are mine, copied directly from eServices:

Qualification	Expiration
CAP Emergency Services Patch	Does not expire
GES - General Emergency Services	Does not expire
IS100 - IS-100	Does not expire
IS700 - IS-700	Does not expire
MO - Mission Observer	30 Nov 2014
MRO - Mission Radio Operator	31 Jul 2016
MS - Mission Scanner	31 May 2016
SET - Skills Evaluator Training	Does not expire
UDF - Urban Direction Finding Team	28 Feb 2014
CAP Observer Rating	Does not expire

[pascocap2002]

[/quote]

I had a couple of long-expired ratings, and, while they may have been deleted at the Wing level, they disappeared from my 101 card. They are not totally gone out of eServices, because they show up as expired in my Skills Evaluator listing. The olde task sign-offs still appear on the SQTRs, too.

YMMV.
[/quote]

Thats exactly what I see in my E-Services as well. In my Skills Evaluator listing, I see what I used to have for ratings.

[Eclipse]

Nothing gets deleted "at the wing level", you're either expired or you aren't.

(Yes, quals can be removed, but that can be done by anyone with the appropriate rights and isn't tied to the wing.)

[pascocap2002]

For clarity, I open my SQTR and see:

MO - Mission Observer
Status EXPIRED
Completed 16 Jul 2006
Expiration  16 Jul 2009

Does that mean I never earned the right to wear the wings?

[JeffDG]

For clarity, I open my SQTR and see:

MO - Mission Observer
Status EXPIRED
Completed 16 Jul 2006
Expiration  16 Jul 2009

Does that mean I never earned the right to wear the wings?

Did you submit for your Mission Observer rating?  It's separate from the qualification.  You need the qualification to submit for it, but it is a separate process.

It's not done via SQTR, but via the ES Awards option in OpsQuals:


Oops...wrong one...gimme a sec to get the right screen-grab...

OK, here's the right one, it's under CAP Ratings:

[pascocap2002]

I did, and it was rejected saying "lack of documentation" (that was back in 2012). So I am not sure what more documentation do they need if it is all on record with NHQ? Upon asking, I was not answered back.

[JeffDG]

I did, and it was rejected saying "lack of documentation" (that was back in 2012). So I am not sure what more documentation do they need if it is all on record with NHQ? Upon asking, I was not answered back.

Did you ever submit for the Observer Rating while you were a qualified observer?

If yes, it doesn't expire, and will continue to show in your CAP Ratings section, and you can continue to wear.

If not, then you probably cannot be awarded it until you renew.  The award criteria indicates that you need to "Be qualified as a CAP mission observer in accordance with the CAP 60-series regulations", which if you're currently expired, you're not "qualified" as an observer right now.

The Observer Rating and wings are not automatic upon becoming an MO.  It should be routine to add the rating once you are qualified, but it is a separate request.

[pascocap2002]

That clarifies things, I will guess I will hop in the airplane and do missions.

Its always good to train and since its a goal to be more active.. I will go ahead and get on that to get current.

Thanks for the information.

[JeffDG]

That clarifies things, I will guess I will hop in the airplane and do missions.

Its always good to train and since its a goal to be more active.. I will go ahead and get on that to get current.

Thanks for the information.

No problem.

Once you renew, go to the CAP ratings and hit the checkbox beside the Observer Rating and submit it...if you're current, it should be nearly automatic approval (at least when I see them from qualified observers, I approve them immediately in my Group)

[pascocap2002]

I will do that. Thanks.

Since I just got back to the states, its my intent to regain my old qualifications be active again. CAP has really done a lot for me and without my beginnings in CAP operations, I would not have the interest in ES that I have so its time I give back and to do so, I must re-qualify.

[Garibaldi]

Qualified and current are separate.

Qualified means that you have completed the requirements to hold the position. Current means that you your proficiency is meets or exceeds an established minimum.

For example, a pilots certificate never expires, but his currency does. If he doesn't fly for a number of months/years, all he needs is to pass a medical and demonstrate proficiency in order to fly again. The same system mostly works for ES ratings. In our ES world, if you've lapsed long enough, you get purged from the system, and have to start over.

This would make some sense to me because I remember in 2003 through 2007, I earned a lot and it was in the system but then I went inactive in the CAP ES world for a few years and I see I am expired in everything and I no longer see where I am allowed to wear the ES awards I earned in the past.

Even though I show expired for the awards, that must have meant that I earned them in the past but yet I was informed by a ES guru in my wing (2 years ago) that I cannot wear the awards (reason was "not enough documentation"). I am confused as to what more needs to be documented. If it shows up in E-Services as have held the achievement in the past and now its expired, then why would it be denied for approval to wear the badge? Sometimes I just don't get it.

The awards may never have been formalized (F 2a, or eServices entry). Being qualified, and having the rating awarded are two different things.

The following awards, once awarded, never expire:

CAP Basic Emergency Services Qualification Badge
CAP Senior Emergency Services Qualification Badge
CAP Master Emergency Services Qualification Badge
CAP Basic Ground Team Badge
CAP Senior Ground Team Badge
CAP Master Ground Team Badge
CAP Emergency Services Patch

Also these:

Cadet Pre-Solo Pilot Rating
Solo Pilot Rating
Pilot Rating
Senior Pilot Rating
Command Pilot Rating
Glider Pilot Rating
Balloon Pilot Rating
CAP Observer Rating
CAP Senior Observer Rating
CAP Master Observer Rating

Once awarded, you can wear them forever, unless revoked for cause.

Here are mine, copied directly from eServices:

Qualification	Expiration
CAP Emergency Services Patch	Does not expire
GES - General Emergency Services	Does not expire
IS100 - IS-100	Does not expire
IS700 - IS-700	Does not expire
MO - Mission Observer	30 Nov 2014
MRO - Mission Radio Operator	31 Jul 2016
MS - Mission Scanner	31 May 2016
SET - Skills Evaluator Training	Does not expire
UDF - Urban Direction Finding Team	28 Feb 2014
CAP Observer Rating	Does not expire

This is why I still wear my observer wings. I spent too much time in a plane to earn them and I was so relieved to hear I didn't have to take them off, even though I can't fly anymore.

[pascocap2002]

So, here is the update:

I attended a SAREX and things went very well. I flew a few missions and got up to date on my Observer and Scanner. It took a few weeks for things to go up the chain of command but I got current as an Observer and Scanner and submitted it. I then applied for my CAP drivers license and submitted that. About 2 weeks later, Scanner, Observer, and Drivers License were approved:

CAP Emergency Services Patch   Does not expire   ACTIVE   Remove
CUL - Communications Unit Leader   31 Aug 2009   EXPIRED   Remove
CUL - Communications Unit Leader   31 Mar 2016   TRAINING   Remove
FLM - Flight Line Marshaller   31 Aug 2009   EXPIRED   Remove
FLM - Flight Line Marshaller   31 Mar 2016   TRAINING   Remove
FLS - Flight Line Supervisor   31 Aug 2009   EXPIRED   Remove
FLS - Flight Line Supervisor   31 Mar 2016   TRAINING   Remove
GES - General Emergency Services   Does not expire   ACTIVE   Remove
GTL - Ground Team Leader   31 Mar 2010   EXPIRED   Remove
GTL - Ground Team Leader   31 Mar 2016   TRAINING   Remove
GTM1 - Ground Team Member Level 1   31 Aug 2009   EXPIRED   Remove
GTM1 - Ground Team Member Level 1   31 Mar 2016   TRAINING   Remove
GTM2 - Ground Team Member Level 2   31 Mar 2014   TRAINING   Remove
GTM3 - Ground Team Member Level 3   31 Mar 2014   TRAINING   Remove
ICS300 - ICS-300   Does not expire   ACTIVE   Remove
ICS400 - ICS-400   Does not expire   ACTIVE   Remove
IS100 - IS-100   Does not expire   ACTIVE   Remove
IS200 - IS-200   Does not expire   ACTIVE   Remove
IS700 - IS-700   Does not expire   ACTIVE   Remove
IS800 - IS-800   Does not expire   ACTIVE   Remove
MO - Mission Observer   31 Mar 2017   ACTIVE   Remove
MRO - Mission Radio Operator   31 Aug 2009   EXPIRED   Remove
MRO - Mission Radio Operator   31 Mar 2016   TRAINING   Remove
MS - Mission Scanner   31 Mar 2017   ACTIVE   Remove
MSO - Mission Safety Officer   31 Aug 2009   EXPIRED   Remove
MSO - Mission Safety Officer   31 Mar 2016   TRAINING   Remove
SET - Skills Evaluator Training   Does not expire   ACTIVE   Remove
UDF - Urban Direction Finding Team   31 Mar 2015   Expired but then resubmitted and not approved (same issue I had originally with Observer, I earned it but its expired.

Drv's Lic (S,7,8,9,12,15,PT,SPV,TT<2000,TT>2000)12/14/17


I have a lot more to go to get back the qualifications I am expired in but its a good start and a great learning experience. I cannot say anything negative because things worked out very well and I learned a lot. It was great to get back into a CAP aircraft, it was great to start helping CAP again, and it was a fantastic experience to reconnect with people I have not seen in years.

Thank you JeffDG, Eclipse, and SarDragon for helping me understand some things. I sincerely appreciate it and may call upon your help in clarifications in the future.

I am looking at my expired qualifications and I do not see anything entered in the SQTR's so I am puzzled how I could have earned something, then 3 years later expire in that something, and then never see any SQTR's for the original tasks that I performed. Its odd and its the reason for original denial of my UDF and Observer recertification. Now that I have re-flown everything for Scanner and Observer and have both paper and digital SQTR's and are awarded the rating (the wings), the patch, and the Observer and Scanner on my 101 card, I will work on UDF and others to get them up to date. Then I will go for learning new things and progressing within CAP ES.

Its been a long road and I am just getting started again so thanks for the help and understanding.

-J

[Eclipse]

^ Likely a symptom of the OPS Quals upgrades and whether your wing used the WMU past the directives to get off of it.

We've seen a lot of "old" stuff not come over from the WMU or be retained past 3 years during the OPS Quals conversions.

[a2capt]

Yes, the WMU stuff was not consistent in transfer. As eServices progressed from a glorified pilot log book, to  'MIMS' and finally to something useful, I'd made it a point to make stuff match.

[SunDog]

I have not been active in CAP and CAP operations as I have spend a vast amount of time out of the country from 2006 until now. I have kept my CAP membership and attended meetings while in the states but I really have not been active in CAP.

I am expired:

CUL
FLM
FLS
GTL
GTM-1
GTM-2
GTM-3
MO
MRO
MS
MSO
UDF

Even thought my Eservices says I am expired, can I still wear the badges?

Shoot, wear 'em. You earned them. . .if it turns out you shouldn't, you'll be forgiven. 

[pascocap2002]

Sundog, I have had the privilege to work with an amazing squadron commander for the past year and I have to be honest and say that he has dealt with things like this for a while. Its an issue with the "old system" and the "new system" Since I earned things prior to online documentation, its hard since things show up online as expired but then there are no original SQTR's in the system. This means that if I submit for the right to wear a badge, it will be denied and the reason will be "lack of documentation".

This means that I will just need to attend a SAREX or training and get the renewal SQTR done and make that item active and then apply for the right to wear the badge. Sadly, thats one heck of a process but it is what it is. I have been up and down wing to get answers and that seems to be the only way possible to get approval to wear the badges. I have to agree with the approving authority telling me this because if I were in their shoes, I would have a hard time approving something like the wear of a badge (ie. Master Ground Team) without any SQTR's for anything ground team related.

My moral side says that it should be approved because its expired, that means you must have earned it in the past in order for it to be expired. There really are two sides to this and I see both. Either way, I don't mind retraining and going back to the basics in CAP ES. The more we train, the better we get and the more effective we can be.

[Eclipse]

Anything "expired" need only the requal tasks and one mission to requalify.

The individual tasks may not show, but "expired" means you had it at one time or another.

If the system is blocking proper requal, the Helpdesk can fix it with an email.

[SunDog]

Sundog, I have had the privilege to work with an amazing squadron commander for the past year and I have to be honest and say that he has dealt with things like this for a while. Its an issue with the "old system" and the "new system" Since I earned things prior to online documentation, its hard since things show up online as expired but then there are no original SQTR's in the system. This means that if I submit for the right to wear a badge, it will be denied and the reason will be "lack of documentation".

This means that I will just need to attend a SAREX or training and get the renewal SQTR done and make that item active and then apply for the right to wear the badge. Sadly, thats one heck of a process but it is what it is. I have been up and down wing to get answers and that seems to be the only way possible to get approval to wear the badges. I have to agree with the approving authority telling me this because if I were in their shoes, I would have a hard time approving something like the wear of a badge (ie. Master Ground Team) without any SQTR's for anything ground team related.

My moral side says that it should be approved because its expired, that means you must have earned it in the past in order for it to be expired. There really are two sides to this and I see both. Either way, I don't mind retraining and going back to the basics in CAP ES. The more we train, the better we get and the more effective we can be.

Good on ya, Mate! Super positive attitude; your squadron is lucky to have you. . .shame about the qual system being FUBAR. . .

Like Eclipse said, if it's further gacked, they can always brute-force the data.  Who knows! If someone fat-fingers something in the raw data, you might come out the other side as National Commander!

[pascocap2002]

The original thing that frustrated me was that I was not authorized to wear my Mission Observer Rating when I checked E-Services (I never knew I had to apply to wear them because after my original classes, we had a graduation and we were pinned on our wings. (I want to say this was around 2002 or 2003). Then I flew a ton of missions and was quite active for a few years and then I went overseas and played SAR with the big boys.

I came home last year and seen that my rating was not in E-Services. I hit apply, my squadron commander apprived it, it went to wing, and then I was denied (reason was: no supporting documentation). I thought what the heck, how can I show "Expired" but then have no documentation? After going back and fourth and trying to figure out how to resolve the issue, I just decided that I want to get more active in CAP again and that ES is a great way to give back. So its okay to just re-qualify and then apply for the right to wear the wings.

I am going through the same issue right now with my ground team badges. No worries though, thats just motivation to get more active and participate.

Instead of being frustrated, I will work with the system, learn the new ways, learn the new regs, and be more efficient while working on CAP missions. Its no big deal because updating knowledge is critical to safety and for performing well on "actual" missions.

-J

[Private Investigator]

The original thing that frustrated me was that I was not authorized to wear my Mission Observer Rating when I checked E-Services (I never knew I had to apply to wear them because after my original classes, we had a graduation and we were pinned on our wings. (I want to say this was around 2002 or 2003). Then I flew a ton of missions and was quite active for a few years and then I went overseas and played SAR with the big boys.

I came home last year and seen that my rating was not in E-Services. I hit apply, my squadron commander apprived it, it went to wing, and then I was denied (reason was: no supporting documentation). I thought what the heck, how can I show "Expired" but then have no documentation? After going back and fourth and trying to figure out how to resolve the issue, I just decided that I want to get more active in CAP again and that ES is a great way to give back. So its okay to just re-qualify and then apply for the right to wear the wings.

I am going through the same issue right now with my ground team badges. No worries though, thats just motivation to get more active and participate.

Instead of being frustrated, I will work with the system, learn the new ways, learn the new regs, and be more efficient while working on CAP missions. Its no big deal because updating knowledge is critical to safety and for performing well on "actual" missions.

-J

I was in your spot. I moved and transfer to a Squadron and they could not understand the concept. I told them I got my wings in the pre digital age and can they update it? The whole concept of ES is lost on a non-ES flying club.

[pascocap2002]

There should have been a better way to integrate the old system with the new system but sadly, there was not. I am weary about applying to wear the badges I know I earned. I am weary because I know it will be denied for "lack of documentation".

Save the finger pointing, save the frustration, gain some more UPDATED knowledge, and re-earn your badges under the new system.

Still, I have the dilemma of wearing badges I know I earned or not wearing them until they reflect in E-Services? What to do? I don't know the right answer other than wear them, if someone gets their panties in a bundle, then explain to them that the system is not reflecting older badges earned and try to smooth things out with that individual person.