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New ID card oddity.

Started by Sapper168, January 06, 2014, 09:42:04 PM

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a2capt

..and that's my beef with it, it was there, it worked. We've used it many times for check in/out .. and .. Someone gets a bug up their posterior and says "hey, lets change this! .. to exactly the same thing in a different package", when A can't read B, but B can still read A.

Eclipse

#21
Quote from: JeffDG on January 07, 2014, 08:16:24 PM
Quote from: Eclipse on January 07, 2014, 08:05:06 PM
Can the OP scan it and tell us what's in it?
CAPID...that's it, no additional information.

Then a QR code is, if not "inappropriate", certainly overkill.

Seriously, why doesn't NHQ ask about this kind of stuff?

If they think "no one is using it anyway, so no one will care...", then why include it.
If they know people are using it, then they need to do impact assessment on the change.

"That Others May Zoom"

a2capt

Along the same way we got the original triangle thingy .. someone thought it was "cute" and it stuck.

JeffDG

Quote from: Eclipse on January 07, 2014, 08:05:06 PM
As mentioned, any barcode reader from the last 20 years, including the
plentiful and cheap "CueCat" could read the old-style.  Excel will accept the scan directly into a field - it's that
simple to use.

One could really ask why there's a barcode on the IDs at all, since there is no official national system that has ever used
one anyway, and nowhere else we present the cards as IDs cares what our CAP ids. 
Just CAPID is handy.  And you don't even need excel to make a traditional barcode reader work...they all emulate keyboards, so it takes the CAPID off your card and it's just as if you typed it in.  Anything that uses CAPIDs will work with them.

JeffDG

Quote from: Eclipse on January 07, 2014, 08:28:27 PM
Quote from: JeffDG on January 07, 2014, 08:16:24 PM
Quote from: Eclipse on January 07, 2014, 08:05:06 PM
Can the OP scan it and tell us what's in it?
CAPID...that's it, no additional information.

Then a QR code is, if not "inappropriate", certainly overkill.

Seriously, why doesn't NHQ ask about this kind of stuff?

If they think "no one is using it anyway, so no one will care...", then why include it.
If they know people are using it, then they need to do impact assessment on the change.
My mistake...it's Datamatrix, not QR...

Still bricks a bunch of hardware.

And that's exactly right:  It is either not used, in which case, why?  Or it's used and notice and opportunity to comment would be in order.

Luis R. Ramos

It is one of those solutions in search of a problem, and applications. The barcode on the ID was not used immediately after its implementation. I remember it being printed on the ID for at least 3 or 4 years before units had barcode readers.

Flyer
Squadron Safety Officer
Squadron Communication Officer
Squadron Emergency Services Officer

Eclipse

Some barcode reader apps can't read datamatrix.

Datamatrix is what you see used in a lot of manufacturing.

Datamatrix.


QR

"That Others May Zoom"

JeffDG

I like this one better:

And anyone can generate them...they're a great technology...

If you're curious, go to: http://www.qrstuff.com/

Eclipse

I put one one (QR) our Christmas cards last year with a link to photos from the year.

I think 2-3 people even knew what it was, the rest used the URL on the card.

"That Others May Zoom"

a2capt

Quote from: flyer333555 on January 07, 2014, 08:48:16 PMI remember it being printed on the ID for at least 3 or 4 years before units had barcode readers.
Did they issue some? Everything I've got, I've bought. But I bring them to events, been doing it for years. Works great.  Point, shoot, Done. Next. Been since the first time it appeared on there. "Hey, look, cool deal, we can use this."

Eclipse

Ditto it's always been personal gear or stuff units bought.  Not aware of anything issued, nor any National
systems that can even use it.  Same goes for 101 cards.

"That Others May Zoom"

a2capt

Yup. New card came today. Thanks NHQ, for changing something that worked to something that's borderline useless, as not any of 7 barcode scanners recognizes that thing.

There was -nothing- wrong with the 1D barcode. Nothing. You've not used the space on the card for something else, it's blank now, with exception of another number printed there, which for all I can tell is probably a sequence because 0705 has nothing to do with my membership, that I can tell.

Please put back the barcode. I'm not buying new equipment, and telling me "use an app" is not an acceptable answer. Having to 'dedicate' a phone or similar device when a simple "dumb" keyboard wedge device did the job just right.

Sigh.

Fubar

As a fix, I suppose you can print out bar codes and slap 'em on the back of the ID. They can be printed fairly small, which would hopefully minimize the less than professional appearance a sticker on the ID would cause...

Ned

Here's the issue:

The old-style barcode was put on the ID cards by the vendor as a way to match the card to the address it needed to get mailed to.  So, while it turned out to be useful to the field in a lot of ways, the original purpose was strictly internal to the vendor.

Of course, as it turns out many enterprising and clever members were able to repurpose the barcode and use it for the reasons folks have described here:  checking members into missions and activities, checking safety quals, etc.  All good and innovative stuff, which is what we have come to expect from our volunteers who constantly work to improve our administrative processes.

What happened was that the vendor discovered that they were getting a significant number of errors in their readers, and a fair number of ID cards got sent to the wrong address.  We received the complaints from the members and asked the vendor to improve their process.

Which they did by upgrading their readers and employing the more modern technology.

Hence the change.  The vendor simply did not know that the membership was using the older technology and could not easily upgrade.

NHQ is now aware of the issue and is reviewing it with the vendor.  Those of you with IT training and experience may want to suggest ways to (cheaply) modify the ID cards to meet the needs of both the vendor and the field.

For NHQ, the lesson is along the lines of "unintended consequences while trying to improve services to the membership."

For CT, the lesson is something along the lines of Occam's Razor - "do not be too quick to assume sinister plans or administrative indifference on the part of NHQ, when simple administrative oversight is far more likely."

Ned Lee
NHQ Apologist

Eclipse

The vendor is dictating the form and function of our ID cards?

Excellent.

"That Others May Zoom"

Ned

Another way to look at it is that the functionality would never have been there in the first place without the vendor.

There was never a requirement from CAP to make the ID card machine-readable.  If there had been, it is almost certain that a process would have prevented what just happened.  Basically the vendor thought the bar-code was only for their internal processes, and had no way to know that hard-working members were using it for other purposes.

Interestingly, NHQ has no internal need for a a machine readable code.  It makes sense that such a need would be identified and acted upon in the field.

Far away from the vendor.

Eclipse

Quote from: Ned on January 09, 2014, 06:48:57 PMBasically the vendor thought the bar-code was only for their internal processes

That's my point - the thing takes about 15-20% of the front of our ID card - the face of CAP to a lot of outside people.

What the vendor needs is irrelevant.  You design a card and find someone who can meet the spec.
In a previous life I've had to deal with ID cards, etc., designing them was always a process which included
marketing and others involved with the external identity.

If a vendor had told me that their production system required a chunk of my card had to have a useless barcode,
they wouldn't have been my vendor.

"That Others May Zoom"

Майор Хаткевич

Again...they dictate our design? What do they do for other customers? Slap their stuff on Id cards nilly willy? They ever hear of packing slips? Adhesive labels? Why would their internal pick list be on the card itself? And how in the world did they get mistakes from scanning the same thing they are scanning now? Sounds like a bs excuse from the vendor rather than a problem. Maybe time to change vendors. Someone who actually makes cards.

a2capt

Whatever the case may be, it's obvious the barcode has become an item used by more than an internal method.

So that '0705' number on my card probably is an order number, something for eyeballs to look at and compare with an address/order to send it to, for QC purposes.

How about .. using the CAP ID number as a key field of cross reference on the order since it is -printed- on the card? No? 

SamFranklin

"Full of sound and fury, signifying nothing."   

Maybe I'm in the minority, but I've never cared one bit what the ID cards looked like. If we have a crummy vendor, I bet the finance people or whoever handles that will react accordingly.