College Degree =/= leadership

[Mitchell 1969]

It shouldn't be too hard to set a survey into eServices.  Maybe we could even allow completition to substitute for safety currency one month.   

Oh, the HUMANITY!

[Al Sayre]

I wouldn't be surprised to find that CAP members have a higher average education level than the general population, and that there are a lot of folks out there with college degrees.  Let us not forget that CAP in general and flying especially are fairly expensive activities, and people who don't have disposable incomes are less likely to join and remain active members for very long.  As I think about my own former Squadron, out of about 25 active senior members, I can only think of 3 or 4 that did not have a college degree of some kind, and 2 of those were college students...

[Elihu.Lowery]

Is it just possible that CAP has served it's purpose and is an expense that is no longer necessary?  Aerospace education is not really needed anymore.  The public have accepted air travel and the need for an Air Force.  Aeronautical engineers are out of work.  The Air Force has more than enough good recruits.  Our cadets are few and far between when you think on a national size.  Search and rescue is down to a minimum.  Average squadron size is between 14 and 17 with probably 10 to 12 active at any time.  As Eclipse has pointed out in the past, this is not a fully functional or staffed squadron by CAP requirements today.  CAP requires over 100 reports a year.  The few working are generating reports and little else.  Fewer search and rescue missions, more lose their qualifications by not being able to conveniently recert.  We do some good in our Homeland security mission, but could that be done by drones?  We get very little support from the Air Force anymore.  I am sure the other grayhairs remember the C-130 and C-141 flights we used to routinely get as an example?  Most of our basic summer encampments are no longer on Air Force Bases.  Are we more expensive than we are worth?  A $24,000,000.00 annual budget in these times is problematic for an organization of 60,000 members.  Have we outlived our usefulness?  Are we dinasaurs?

Well, the same could be said for most volunteer organizations as there are well funded government agencies that can and/or do most of the same missions. But, still there are those people like us that want to do our part, that want to help as best we can without having to join/rejoin the military or try for a government job just so we can be of service. CAP's membership numbers has remained steady over the past decade and in fact CAP has grown from the 40,000's that it was in back when I first joined in 1993. So, things are not quite to the point of us all just turning out the lights, locking the doors and going home. But, we must remember that there are many other volunteer organizations to compete with us for membership; just in the volunteer military auxiliaries alone their is of course the Air Force Aux (us), the Coast Guard Aux, and many State Guards/Defense Forces that serve as an Army Auxiliary (Well at least for the Army National Guard). At 60,000 plus members we are not doing too bad and as for the fact there are only a few active members at any given time the same holds true for all volunteer groups, from the Boy/Girl Scouts (I have children in both, there are very few active adults willing to be active) to church groups, to the Red Cross (I was a volunteer, it could be very lonely manning a shelter do to lack of volunteers), and even the State Guards which have no membership fees are hurting for volunteers they may have 1000 members on the books for a Battalion but only halve that many are active. It's just the nature of volunteer organizations to have a few pull the weight of many as we tend to rotate in & out with time. I myself have been very active with CAP for several years then will burn out; become inactive, and then will return active again after after a break of a few years.  My grade progression has gone as follows: SM, FO, TFO, 1Lt, SM, 1LT, SM, Capt. but I luv CAP and keep returning and as long as we all keep returning there will be a CAP (I have no idea as to what missions we will have in the future but I am sure CAP will be around awhile). 

[Elihu.Lowery]

When it comes to the idea that to be a volunteer Officer in CAP one must have a Degree; I believe it would be an over requirement. I do however believe that it is reasonable to require that all members complete the Officer Course before being promoted to an Officer.
As for the argument that a Degree makes someone a better leader I would have to disagree. Does a degree mean your better educated and more knowledgeable? I would hope so otherwise I wasted a lot of time and money earning mine. But, did it make me a better leader then I was already from being a NCO in the military after serving for ten years? No, I do not believe it did. 

[Eclipse]

When it comes to the idea that to be a volunteer Officer in CAP one must have a Degree; I believe it would be an over requirement. I do however believe that it is reasonable to require that all members complete the Officer Course before being promoted to an Officer.

This would be reasonable and appropriate, not much different in context then OCS or salutin' school for professionals.

If CAP doesn't think that's enough, raise that bar - make it OBC plus UCC and/or some TIG (or other). At least that provides the ability to
continue to grow leaders internally.

The military and business have the ability to identify future leaders and then fund whatever education, be it internal, technical, or university
that they want that person to have. And in the meantime that organization is also providing the person with a livelihood.

CAP has neither option and never will.

[Ned]

The military and business have the ability to identify future leaders and then fund whatever education, be it internal, technical, or university
that they want that person to have. And in the meantime that organization is also providing the person with a livelihood.

The military does not fund the college or university education for the great majority of their officers.

Unless you go to an academy or receive a full ROTC scholarship, you are responsible for your own (pre requisite) education. (There is a small ROTC stipend for the last two years, however).

Similarly, the DA's office did not pay for my law school.  (I am, however appreciative of all of the taxpayers' support of the University of California.)

[Eclipse]

The TA program can cover all eligible service personnel for their college expenses.  I highly doubt the advanced degrees
of most of our national military leaders were paid for out of their own pockets.

It is also quite common for private business to fund degree programs for their employees.

My point, of course, was not statistics, but the fact that these are options which are available to the military and business and not CAP.

The ROI with CAP only works when we can leverage what people bring to the table, and/or when we can train them internally
at (essentially) zero cost.  Move that line much in any direction and the math starts to break because we start costing what professional
resources who are more agile and better equipped cost.  The more agile being the key factor.  The way NGO are kicking our FPPOC in the DR
space is getting embarrassing.

Start piling on unnecessary and irrelevant pre-reqs to working for free and you will find yourself with a highly educated org chart with no names on it.

[abdsp51]

The TA program can cover all eligible service personnel for their college expenses.

It is also quite common for private business to fund degree programs for their employees.

True.  But the criteria and percentage it covers is different between the services.  And it won't always cover books.

[MisterCD]

After ten years of college education (undergrad and graduate) I toss out the view that the education provided me with tools, knowledge, and preparation for a career in a certain field. It does not, however, focus on educating or training that person to be well-versed in the arts of leadership, interpersonal relations, or effective management. Some of these skills are acquired with experiences over the course of school, but these are secondary or tertiary to their chosen path of study. Is a person without formal education a superior to a person with formal education in regards to leadership? The safe answer is "it depends." A major deciding factor is experience with career and life, along with a dash of self-reflection and introspective. Every leader stumbles at some point, but good ones will evaluate and modify behaviors or actions to improve performance. Anyhow, just my thoughts.

[Eclipse]

After ten years of college education (undergrad and graduate) I toss out the view that the education provided me with tools, knowledge, and preparation for a career in a certain field. It does not, however, focus on educating or training that person to be well-versed in the arts of leadership, interpersonal relations, or effective management. Some of these skills are acquired with experiences over the course of school, but these are secondary or tertiary to their chosen path of study. Is a person without formal education a superior to a person with formal education in regards to leadership? The safe answer is "it depends." A major deciding factor is experience with career and life, along with a dash of self-reflection and introspective. Every leader stumbles at some point, but good ones will evaluate and modify behaviors or actions to improve performance. Anyhow, just my thoughts.

I agree completely, which is why internal mentoring would have so much more value then college degrees.

One only needs to look to Wall Street to see what highly-educated men who lack ethics and integrity can accomplish.
Pretty much any adult capable of writing a check and competing the forms can be trained the technical skills to
be valuable in CAP, and with the proper mentoring and experience, most people can be indoctrinated (for lack of a better term)
into the understanding of the hows and whys it takes to be a leader in CAP.

The problem is that we do a bare-minimum, check-box job on the former, and just about ignore the latter.  Then we look at
each other and ask "How did we get here?"

[Storm Chaser]

In addition to raising the bar to becoming a CAP officer, I would propose that we move away from the expectation that everyone who joins CAP should become an officer. That is unheard of in other organizations; commercial, military, non-profit, etc. Why can only those who demonstrate appropriate potential in becoming good officers, after extensive training, be selected and promoted to 2d Lt. As it stands right now, virtually anyone who completes Level 1, six months as a member, is active and helps the squadron in any way can and will be promoted to 2d Lt. However, not everyone is suitable for being an officer, whether in CAP or in other organizations.

[The CyBorg is destroyed]

In addition to raising the bar to becoming a CAP officer, I would propose that we move away from the expectation that everyone who joins CAP should become an officer.

I always thought it was odd that almost everyone was an officer in CAP.  When I first thought of joining ('93), I fully expected to wear stripes.

When I told my Army veteran dad about it he said "sounds like you've got more Chiefs than you do Indians."  He also couldn't fathom that wearing stripes was a privilege reserved for the few and that they couldn't promote to more stripes.  He said, "you're telling me that the only way for a Sergeant to get promoted is to be a Lieutenant?"

[Storm Chaser]

+1

That didn't seem so odd during my first few years in CAP only because I viewed CAP officers as the "chiefs" and cadets as the "indians". However, as I've come to discover in more resent years that there's a whole sector of our membership that doesn't work with cadets, the whole idea that virtually everyone is an officer seems odd at best.

(edited for grammar)

[Ned]

  I highly doubt the advanced degrees of most of our national military leaders were paid for out of their own pockets.

Undoubtedly true, but we haven't been talking about "advanced degrees," have we?  We have been talking about undergraduate degrees as a possible prerequisite for officer status.  And which the military does not fund for the majority of their officers.

It is also quite common for private business to fund degree programs for their employees.

That's good then, isn't it?  Doesn't that mean that since most CAP members work for private businesses it would be "quite common" for them to be able to get their degrees funded?

My point, of course, was not statistics, but the fact that these are options which are available to the military and business and not CAP.

My point, of course, was similar but apparently opposite.  The same options that are available for the military and business for that initial degree are available to CAP members.

Start piling on unnecessary and irrelevant pre-reqs to working for free and you will find yourself with a highly educated org chart with no names on it.

Instead of the "highly uneducated org chart with no names on it" like we have now?   

Seriously, it is clear that reasonable minds differ on this, but ultimately we are discussing, at most, where on the continuum to set the formal education requirement for officers.  If it were really just about filling the org chart we could eliminate the GED requirement and reach out to some additional members.

[Storm Chaser]

I'm not a proponent of making a bachelor's degree a requirement to becoming a CAP officer, at least not with our current membership model (that may only work if officers were fewer and focused on managing, directing and commanding, and most CAP members were either enlisted or warrant officers). I'm more interested in raising the bar and increasing training requirements for officers. That said, if CAP really wanted to establish an education requirement to be come a 2d Lt, wouldn't an associate's degree be a better compromise?

Let me clarify that I'm not proposing this, but just brainstorming out-loud.

[Shuman 14]

The military and business have the ability to identify future leaders and then fund whatever education, be it internal, technical, or university
that they want that person to have. And in the meantime that organization is also providing the person with a livelihood.

The military does not fund the college or university education for the great majority of their officers.

Unless you go to an academy or receive a full ROTC scholarship, you are responsible for your own (pre requisite) education. (There is a small ROTC stipend for the last two years, however).

Similarly, the DA's office did not pay for my law school.  (I am, however appreciative of all of the taxpayers' support of the University of California.)

With the various Services' Tuition Assistance programs (which are open to Officers and cover up to masters Degrees) you'd be surprised how education the Military is actually paying for.

[Eclipse]

That's good then, isn't it?  Doesn't that mean that since most CAP members work for private businesses it would be "quite common" for them to be able to get their degrees funded?

No.

Interesting model - require something irrelevant to the actual operations, and then light a candle hoping someone else will pay the bill for it.

[Eclipse]

If it were really just about filling the org chart we could eliminate the GED requirement and reach out to some additional members.

A high school diploma is still considered the minimum requirement to function in society, and is funded by society..  A college degree isn't, even a little.

Therefore a requirement for a high school diploma or equivalent is appropriate, college degree isn't.

However since a high school diploma isn't required to be a member, only for officer appointment, there's already no issue with filling the org chart with
people who haven't completed even that level of education.

[SJFedor]

If it were really just about filling the org chart we could eliminate the GED requirement and reach out to some additional members.

A high school diploma is still considered the minimum requirement to function in society, and is funded by society..  A college degree isn't, even a little.

Therefore a requirement for a high school diploma or equivalent is appropriate, college degree isn't.

However since a high school diploma isn't required to be a member, only for officer appointment, there's already no issue with filling the org chart with
people who haven't completed even that level of education.

Interesting. I just recently saw a CAP 1st Lt who's "still working on his GED". Obviously his unit commander didn't read 35-3.

[a2capt]

As far as a high school diploma, I have yet to ever encounter anyplace that needed actual proof that one exists.
Everywhere I've seen the question ones word for it was all that was required.