Goretex Insignia

[afgeo4]

Today I received yet another e-mail from our friends at Vanguard:

________________________________________________________________
Dear Mr. *****,

Thank you for your email.  The gortex insignia has not been received at this time, unfortunately, I do not have a date on when it is going to be in stock.  Please let me know if there is anything else that I can assist you with.

Sincerely,
Beth Maul
Customer Service
Civil Air Patrol
Vanguard
_______________________________________________________________

My personal comment: Meanwhile... U.S. Civil Air Patrol branch tapes, not yet properly authorized by NHQ are in production and being shipped to members in lieu of still authorized Civil Air Patrol branch tapes.

By monopolizing our uniform acquisition process Civil Air Patrol has assured its members being out of uniform... consistently.

[Psicorp]

Wow...I'm surprised by that, sir.   Okay, not really. 

[floridacyclist]

I bet they've made the IT badge for the Gore-tex parka...and that hasn't even been proposed yet.

[lordmonar]

Today I received yet another e-mail from our friends at Vanguard:

________________________________________________________________
Dear Mr. *****,

Thank you for your email.  The gortex insignia has not been received at this time, unfortunately, I do not have a date on when it is going to be in stock.  Please let me know if there is anything else that I can assist you with.

Sincerely,
Beth Maul
Customer Service
Civil Air Patrol
Vanguard
_______________________________________________________________

My personal comment: Meanwhile... U.S. Civil Air Patrol branch tapes, not yet properly authorized by NHQ are in production and being shipped to members in lieu of still authorized Civil Air Patrol branch tapes.

By monopolizing our uniform acquisition process Civil Air Patrol has assured its members being out of uniform... consistently.

The branch tapes are much easer to make.  They are simply typed into the embroitery machine and produced one off at a time.  Just like our name tapes.

The gortex rank acutally has to be manufacuted, stocked and stored.  There are 18 differrent slides that have to manufacuted.  It is not nearly as easy as adding U.S. to the branch tape.

[afgeo4]

Sure, but it still remains a fact that they're distributing unauthorized items people didn't ask for (orders submitted are for CIVIL AIR PATROL, sans U.S.) while not supplying authorized items people have been begging for half of winter.

[lordmonar]

Sure, but it still remains a fact that they're distributing unauthorized items people didn't ask for (orders submitted are for CIVIL AIR PATROL, sans U.S.) while not supplying authorized items people have been begging for half of winter.

The U.S. CAP branch tapes are authorised...and they are the only ones you can order at this time.  You don't have to wear them until 2010 but that does not mean you can still order the old ones....unless you go to some other vendor.

And again....we are talking about lead time.  It take zero time to produce branch tapes.  The gortex slide takes a little longer.

[Eclipse]

And it also depends on what kinds of machines they have versus what they are sending to the PAC-RIM.

It is amazing what some of those vendors can do in no time flat, even on things like enamel insignia.
30 Days from order to ship, and that's in smaller quantities...

If they are running the tapes in-house, this is likely a machine sitting, already setup, ready to go, whereas the gore-tex slide is a completely different setup.

I'm no apologist for Vanguard, but there are some practical realities to these things, too.  And since we are a small service with even smaller order numbers, that's life.

And they may be waiting until they get a better mass of orders.  Many people here would make you believe that people are dumping the M65 by the thousands.  In my circle, no one is going to buy a $150+ jacket when thy have a perfectly good one in the closet.

I only wear the thing 10 or 20 times total during the year, and rarely in the extreme environments purported to be the "norm" in CAP.

[Psicorp]

Sure, but it still remains a fact that they're distributing unauthorized items people didn't ask for (orders submitted are for CIVIL AIR PATROL, sans U.S.) while not supplying authorized items people have been begging for half of winter.

The U.S. CAP branch tapes are authorised...and they are the only ones you can order at this time.  You don't have to wear them until 2010 but that does not mean you can still order the old ones....unless you go to some other vendor.

And again....we are talking about lead time.  It take zero time to produce branch tapes.  The gortex slide takes a little longer.

Aren't those things basically cloth CAP cutouts with embroidered grade insignia below it?

[lordmonar]

Sure, but it still remains a fact that they're distributing unauthorized items people didn't ask for (orders submitted are for CIVIL AIR PATROL, sans U.S.) while not supplying authorized items people have been begging for half of winter.

The U.S. CAP branch tapes are authorised...and they are the only ones you can order at this time.  You don't have to wear them until 2010 but that does not mean you can still order the old ones....unless you go to some other vendor.

And again....we are talking about lead time.  It take zero time to produce branch tapes.  The Gortex slide takes a little longer.

Aren't those things basically cloth CAP cutouts with embroidered grade insignia below it?

Basically....it is not technically that hard....but here is the process.  A pattern is programmed into the loom.  It is set up and they run off a batch....of say 10K units.  Then they set up for the next insignia...the insignia then has to be folded and sewn into a loop and then packaged.

This all takes time.  It takes time to find a supplier, do the initial runs, Quality control check, final product approved and the production run to be started.  Then they have to be shipped, stocked, and then they are ready to be released.

Now....this is speculation...but maybe the hold up is that Vanguard got a shoddy production run.  Maybe there is a problem with their machine and they are waiting for parts.  Maybe National did not like the initial run and asked them to make changes.  There are a lot of factors involved here that can slow down the process.

Vanguard will be ready when they are ready.  It is as simple as that.  The U.S. Civil Air Patrol was easy because the use the same machine that they make the "HARRIS" or the "SMITH" name tapes.  The probably ran off a couple of hundred within days of NHQ telling them of the change. (if they do that at all...they may not keep any in stock and only produce them as they are ordered).

So....the production process for the Gortex Slide is much more complicated than the branch tapes...ergo the long lead time.

[SJFedor]

But as for the US Civil Air Patrol change, doesn't that little tidbit require USAF approval for AF style BDU's?

[lordmonar]

But as for the US Civil Air Patrol change, doesn't that little tidbit require USAF approval for AF style BDU's?

Yes...but not the subject of this question.  For the supposed idea that you can't order the branch tapes with out the u.s. on it...I suggest that you actually call Vanguard and tell them exactly what you want to say.  If you can make a name tape that says rumplestiltskin, I'm sure they can make one that say Civil Air Patrol.

[Eclipse]

as can other places ((*hint*))   

[LtCol White]

But as for the US Civil Air Patrol change, doesn't that little tidbit require USAF approval for AF style BDU's?

Yes...but not the subject of this question.  For the supposed idea that you can't order the branch tapes with out the u.s. on it...I suggest that you actually call Vanguard and tell them exactly what you want to say.  If you can make a name tape that says rumplestiltskin, I'm sure they can make one that say Civil Air Patrol.

But vanguard is going to only make what they were told. They're not stupid. If they were told not to make or sell CAP strips and only sell US CAP, then thats what they are going to do.

[lordmonar]

But as for the US Civil Air Patrol change, doesn't that little tidbit require USAF approval for AF style BDU's?

Yes...but not the subject of this question.  For the supposed idea that you can't order the branch tapes with out the u.s. on it...I suggest that you actually call Vanguard and tell them exactly what you want to say.  If you can make a name tape that says rumplestiltskin, I'm sure they can make one that say Civil Air Patrol.

But vanguard is going to only make what they were told. They're not stupid. If they were told not to make or sell CAP strips and only sell US CAP, then thats what they are going to do.

Vanguard will  make anything you pay them to make....or they think they can sell.  If you call them up and ask for "Civil Air Patrol" vice "U.S. Civil Air Patrol", I'm pretty sure the will make them.  They were told that the "standard" branch tape is now "U.S. Civil Air Patrol" and so if you order a branch tape that is what you get.  But if you order a Name tape with "Civil Air Patrol" then they will make it.  Vanguard does not care about our regulations they just want our money.

[LtCol White]

But as for the US Civil Air Patrol change, doesn't that little tidbit require USAF approval for AF style BDU's?

Yes...but not the subject of this question.  For the supposed idea that you can't order the branch tapes with out the u.s. on it...I suggest that you actually call Vanguard and tell them exactly what you want to say.  If you can make a name tape that says rumplestiltskin, I'm sure they can make one that say Civil Air Patrol.

But vanguard is going to only make what they were told. They're not stupid. If they were told not to make or sell CAP strips and only sell US CAP, then thats what they are going to do.

Vanguard will  make anything you pay them to make....or they think they can sell.  If you call them up and ask for "Civil Air Patrol" vice "U.S. Civil Air Patrol", I'm pretty sure the will make them.  They were told that the "standard" branch tape is now "U.S. Civil Air Patrol" and so if you order a branch tape that is what you get.  But if you order a Name tape with "Civil Air Patrol" then they will make it.  Vanguard does not care about our regulations they just want our money.

I beg to differ there. Try calling and see if they will make it for you. I rather doubt they will. If they have been told not to sell CAP tapes, they arent going to do it.

[JC004]

I beg to differ there. Try calling and see if they will make it for you. I rather doubt they will. If they have been told not to sell CAP tapes, they arent going to do it.

I wonder what they're going to do with what they had in stock.  Surely they aren't making these on-demand?  I wonder how they feel about all these changes.  Sure, new tapes will make them money but stuff like ditching wing patches...that had to hurt.

[Stonewall]

I hope they use a smaller font on the U.S. CIVIL AIR PATROL tape because I just sewed the regular CAP tape to my BDUs last night and there is barely a 1/2" of blue at each end.

As for the Goretex insignia, I think I'll just make my own.  Col. McConnell, the person that started the whole Goretex insignia thing was my wing commander and I saw his prototype.  He made his, I can make mine.

PS: I'm not saying he invented it, I'm quite certain hundreds of people thought about this idea, but he is the one that passed up through the uniform committee.

[JC004]

I hope they use a smaller font on the U.S. CIVIL AIR PATROL tape because I just sewed the regular CAP tape to my BDUs last night and there is barely a 1/2" of blue at each end.

It's gonna be Comic Sans.   

[Stonewall]

I doubt they took into consideration that the smaller the BDU the smaller the pockets.  For those that wear medium or small BDUs, their nametapes will go about an inch past the edge of the pocket.

[JC004]

I doubt they took into consideration that the smaller the BDU the smaller the pockets.  For those that wear medium or small BDUs, their nametapes will go about an inch past the edge of the pocket.

I saw here that it was mentioned at the meeting and apparently nobody cared.

[Stonewall]

Here is a picture of a current CAP tape on a set of small BDUs (my wife's).  I say there is enough space for about one more letter, M A Y B E.



Here is a picture of the BDUs I sewed up yesterday with the current CAP tape.  Maybe one or two more letters, but not enough space to add "U. S.".

[JC004]

Here is a picture of a current CAP tape on a set of small BDUs (my wife's).  I say there is enough space for about one more letter, M A Y B E.
...

I guess some squishing is in order on the part of Vanguard.  To make it worse, I'm guessing you don't wear XS-XS BDU.     Sorry little airmen, but you're SOL.

[MIKE]

That's it UK... I'm mailing my stuff to you for sewing from now on.

Do you do ODUs too, or just BDUs?  

[Stonewall]

Here is a picture of a current CAP tape on a set of small BDUs (my wife's).  I say there is enough space for about one more letter, M A Y B E.
...

I guess some squishing is in order on the part of Vanguard.  To make it worse, I'm guessing you don't wear XS-XS BDU.     Sorry little airmen, but you're SOL.

Sorry, no, I wear Large, you know for the massive pecs and all... ;-)

[Stonewall]

That's it UK... I'm mailing my stuff to you for sewing from now on.

Do you do ODUs too, or just BDUs?  

ODUs?

[MIKE]

ODUs?

Operational Dress Uniform... The new Coast Guard working uniform.  They are kinda like blue BDUs.

[Stonewall]

Just curious.  Um, no, I actually hate sewing but even worse, I hate when people don't sew my uniforms properly.

When I joined CAP in 1987 and went home with my fatigues for my mom to sew on my patches she told me it'll be the first and last time.  Next semester I signed up for home economics.  I've been sewing my own uniforms ever since.

[LtCol White]

Our new Wing CC has asked that we all change our BDU's over. We rec'd the strips this week. They've sized the fonts down and it fits fine on the BDU's as you can see in the pic here.



[attachment deleted by admin]

[Stonewall]

What size BDU top is that?  I just compared my Large to my wife's Small and there's about a 1/2" difference in the width of the pocket.

[LtCol White]

Mine is a size large

[Stonewall]

Does anyone have an image of the Goretex rank sleeve thing?  I'm gonna work on sewing one up.

PS:  Remember the good old days....

[LtCol White]

I still my set of OD jungles as well as my pickle suit. LOL....

I havent seen the gortex tab but it is supposed to look just like the USAF rank tabs with CAP above the grade. Of course its in ultramarine blue with appropriate white/gold rank

[JC004]

Does anyone have an image of the Goretex rank sleeve thing?  I'm gonna work on sewing one up.

I wish I had.  Let me know if you get a hold of one. 

You gonna be updating that uniform with U.S. Civil Air Patrol tapes?!  And your cloth cutout is sooo out of date.  Sheesh!   

[LtCol White]

Remember these old days??? Who says evolution is a good thing?? 

[Stonewall]

I was a still a cadet when we had the blue epaulets, but I did wear the maroon ones.  Now that was ugly.

My first set of fatigues were surplus ones that were modified (before I got them) to be short sleeve.

To be quite honest, I think we should get rid of the BBDUs and BDUs and go solely with the straight pocket jungle fatigues.  It would be one "field uniform" for all members to wear, regardless of weight and grooming standards.  Thats just my opinion though.

[JC004]

Remember these old days??? Who says evolution is a good thing?? 

On the bright side, you evolved from gold to silver (generally a bad thing in most cases, but works well in this case).  On the negative side, you're gonna make people cry looking at the old blue ones.

[LtCol White]

Remember these old days??? Who says evolution is a good thing?? 

On the bright side, you evolved from gold to silver (generally a bad thing in most cases, but works well in this case).  On the negative side, you're gonna make people cry looking at the old blue ones.

I know. Ah the good old days.... When we were in the transition period, I bought blue all the way to LtCol so that in the hopes we returned in the future to them, I'd be ready to go! Also have 4 sets each of Capt and Maj stored away for my folks.

[Stonewall]

Did a google search and found this, but this one is a computer generated version.  I'll work on one tomorrow with my mad sewing skills and see what I can come up with.

[JC004]

Did a google search and found this, but this one is a computer generated version.  I'll work on one tomorrow with my mad sewing skills and see what I can come up with.

You mean "Look I Can Use MS Paint" version?  (ok, kidding, this is better than some NHQ-generated uniform fix-ups).  Well, you can start mass-producing them and we can tell Vanguard "No thanks, we have them under control.  But thanks for trying."

[Stonewall]

Here we go.  It ain't the best because the CAP cutout is old and faded and there are different shades of ultramarine.  If everything was new it'd look a lot better.

[Psicorp]

Here we go.  It ain't the best because the CAP cutout is old and faded and there are different shades of ultramarine.  If everything was new it'd look a lot better.

My one thought is...it's Gortex, it's going to be worn in bad weather.  I doubt the white will stay white for very long.   I think a piece of blue cloth, a metal CAP cutout and a metal rank insignia would be the way to go.  Or canibalize cloth CAP cutouts, that works too, they're cheap.

[Stonewall]

For about 15 years while most people wore goretex jackets before they were authorized, me included, we all just pinned our rank with a CAP cutout above it on the flap.

It was a local thing.  Some people whined and some people didn't care.  We felt we had to have some sort of ID on us since we were around military bases 99% of the time.  People would look at you strange if you didn't have rank displayed in some way shape or form.

[Slim]

Does anyone have an image of the Goretex rank sleeve thing?  I'm gonna work on sewing one up.

PS:  Remember the good old days....

Aw man.....that picture almost brought a tear to my eye.....Not so much because it's a jungle fatigue shirt, but you didn't sew your tapes along the edge of the pockets (props for the subdued NREMT patch too).  I'd gladly wear straight pocket ODs as a common uniform.

Jungles rocked, still have a set or two floating around, along with a couple pickle suit sets.  Of course, they must have shrunk while in storage.

[Pylon]

Here we go.  It ain't the best because the CAP cutout is old and faded and there are different shades of ultramarine.  If everything was new it'd look a lot better.

Cool.  So when you opening that sewing business for CAP members' BDUs and custom Goretex tabs?     I'll be first in line with a fistfull of cash.

[Stonewall]

Aw man.....that picture almost brought a tear to my eye.....Not so much because it's a jungle fatigue shirt, but you didn't sew your tapes along the edge of the pockets (props for the subdued NREMT patch too).  I'd gladly wear straight pocket ODs as a common uniform.

Jungles rocked, still have a set or two floating around, along with a couple pickle suit sets.  Of course, they must have shrunk while in storage.

Hey, I was a cadet, we had to go with what we knew and what we saw.  The SF guys down here at the time were wearing them and thats how they wore their nametapes.  When there isn't a 39-1 laying around just follow the SF guys, they've gotta know CAP regs.
Here, see...

[DNall]

Or when you're a SPC hanging out with SF, cause if that guy were SF he'd have got that grade bump before he could put on the patch, and a tab or two as well. Seen a couple female officers wearing SF combat patches, that's wierd & kinda cool to I guess.

I know what you mean about local guidance though. I was at a Sq on NG base a back in the late-90s. The AAG-Air asked us to wear metal pin grade on our hats so we could be more readily identified as leaders when out gaggle of cadets was around & maybe in the way or misbehaving. Totally out of reg, and the Gp CC was none to happy when he suprise visited us, but whatcha gonna do when your host BrigGen gives an order.

[LtCol White]

Or when you're a SPC hanging out with SF, cause if that guy were SF he'd have got that grade bump before he could put on the patch, and a tab or two as well. Seen a couple female officers wearing SF combat patches, that's wierd & kinda cool to I guess.

I know what you mean about local guidance though. I was at a Sq on NG base a back in the late-90s. The AAG-Air asked us to wear metal pin grade on our hats so we could be more readily identified as leaders when out gaggle of cadets was around & maybe in the way or misbehaving. Totally out of reg, and the Gp CC was none to happy when he suprise visited us, but whatcha gonna do when your host BrigGen gives an order.

Follow it

[Stonewall]

Or when you're a SPC hanging out with SF, cause if that guy were SF he'd have got that grade bump before he could put on the patch, and a tab or two as well.

I just did a google search for "jungle fatigues" to use as an example.  Thats how I got that image.  Just as an example.

[Stonewall]

Cool.  So when you opening that sewing business for CAP members' BDUs and custom Goretex tabs?     I'll be first in line with a fistfull of cash.

Never....  I hate sewing.  Between CAP and ANG, for both me and my wife, I do enough sewing.  I make modifications to gear too, but not so much anymore.

Key to getting rank and badges to look so neat is to do the following:

1. Soak them in hot water so they shrink.  If the shrink after you sew them on, they can look bad.

2. Fold the edges while they're still wet so a 1/8" border of blue surrounds the badge/rank, then iron them down.

3. Machine sew everything.  I just looked for it and couldn't find it, but in some regulation, somewhere, it said all rank and badges must be machine sewn.  Maybe it was an old Army reg, but machine sewn looks a lot more professional.

Remember, IAW 39-1, badges are to be measured from the badge not the border.  If you have 2 badges, they should be 1/2" between each other.  Blue should not touch blue. 

[DNall]

...whatcha gonna do when your host BrigGen gives an order.

Follow it

You dang skippy.

Just as an example.

I know, just drawing the parallel of that person was in the same situation as yall of following the example of local guidance rather than whatever big Army was saying at the time.

Thanks for the advice on the sewing. I've made some of those mistakes before, and the only thing worse than all that sewing is ripping it off after you wash it the first time to do it all over again.

[Slim]

Aw man.....that picture almost brought a tear to my eye.....Not so much because it's a jungle fatigue shirt, but you didn't sew your tapes along the edge of the pockets (props for the subdued NREMT patch too).  I'd gladly wear straight pocket ODs as a common uniform.

Jungles rocked, still have a set or two floating around, along with a couple pickle suit sets.  Of course, they must have shrunk while in storage.

Hey, I was a cadet, we had to go with what we knew and what we saw.  The SF guys down here at the time were wearing them and thats how they wore their nametapes.  When there isn't a 39-1 laying around just follow the SF guys, they've gotta know CAP regs.
Here, see...

Same here, only what we knew and saw was that the tapes were sewn parallel to the pocket.  From what I remember at the time, our justification was that the 39-1 said the tapes were sewn along the top of the pocket.  I don't think jungles were ever specifically mentioned in the manual until the 91-92 edition, and then it specified that tapes were sewn parallel to the ground.

[Stonewall]

I don't think jungles were ever specifically mentioned in the manual until the 91-92 edition, and then it specified that tapes were sewn parallel to the ground.

Wow!  So technically mine are right?  I'll be honest with ya, as a cadet, I never saw or heard of a uniform manual.  Hence all the BS we used to do as cadets.  In a way I'm thankful we lacked guidance because we had fun with "special uniforms".  Nowadays, maybe its better to have that guidance readily available at our fingertips so we can teach and enforce uniform standards.

I could never get away with this in today's CAP  (circa 1990)

[Nick]

The sad thing ... you still look the same.  Almost 20 years later, still wearing a green outfit and a blue beret. 

[Stonewall]

Yeah, I've gained a pound or two and that was a black beret.  You know, for our unit "Ranger" team, like so many had back then. 

[SarDragon]

When I build a new set of utilities, I stick the patches and tapes in a couple of the pockets and wash everything one time before I sew anything on. Then I do all the folding, and sew down the edges before I try to sew the items on the shirt. The second line of stitching is hardly noticeable, and makes everything easier to sew.

[Hawk200]

Jungles rocked, still have a set or two floating around, along with a couple pickle suit sets.  Of course, they must have shrunk while in storage.

Funny. So did mine. I sense a conspiracy 

[LTC_Gadget]

I have two sets of shade 107 jungles hangin' in the back of the closet with my Captain's bars on them, right next to my black beret from the Oklahoma Wing ground team.  Both of those uniform ideas are, of course, ancient history.

I guess I'm gonna have to take all my paraphernalia off of them and sell the darn things on e-bay to get a few bucks out of 'em and clear the closet.  Of all the uniform changes that we could get, I don't see them coming back... darnit.. Those were the good old days.

[isuhawkeye]

spoke with vanguard on friday.  They have produced many of the gortex slides, but they state the hold up is with National. 

[JC004]

spoke with vanguard on friday.  They have produced many of the gortex slides, but they state the hold up is with National. 

Do you know what kind of hold up?  They are duly approved, aren't they?  Maybe they need national to approve the examples?

[Stonewall]

Being in Florida, I can wait until about October before I may need to wear my Goretex again.  So to be a good friend and fellow CAPer, I'll hold off on ordering one so my friends up north can get theirs first 

[mikeylikey]

Now that the snow has finally ended and it is warming up I guess I will not be seeing any return on my investment for a few months! 

[isuhawkeye]

^^^^Bump^^^^


Look what came in the Mail today

http://isuhawkeye.blogspot.com/

[lordmonar]

Okay....and where can the rest of us order this wonder of wonders!

[RogueLeader]

Congrats to getting your  LTC.

[isuhawkeye]

I ordered mine through Vangard about 6 months ago

[JC004]

I ordered mine through Vangard about 6 months ago

Will it take me 6 months to get one?

[MIKE]

Probably.

[isuhawkeye]

I have had many conversations with Charles Bosec from their east coast office.  It appears that they now have these items in stock, and are available for shipping.

[RogueLeader]

But how long will it actually take them to ship them?  I had to wait two months for them to ship what they said they had in stock.

[Stonewall]

Think about it, you don't need these things in July, so if you order it now, it'll be here for the fall and winter.

[isuhawkeye]

what a refreshingly positive approach

[RogueLeader]

what a refreshingly positive approach

True, but after having to deal with Vanguard, I find it very hard to remain positive.

[LtCol White]

I just ordered mine today. Lets see how long it takes to arrive

[Pylon]

In support of the Greater Syracuse "Buy Locally" initiative, I had my Goretex tab manufacturered locally months ago.

This, of course, means I was able to wear my Goretex jacket in full accordance with CAP regulations, manuals, and interim change letters for several months now. Hopefully I nor the local seamstress will not receive cease and desist orders for the lot of 1 produced and sold.   

[RogueLeader]

In support of the Greater Syracuse "Buy Locally" initiative, I had my Goretex tab manufacturered locally months ago.

This, of course, means I was able to wear my Goretex jacket in full accordance with CAP regulations, manuals, and interim change letters for several months now. Hopefully I nor the local seamstress will not receive cease and desist orders for the lot of 1 produced and sold.   

I hope they wouldn't even bother with it.  I mean it's 1, it's not like hundreds are being produced, oh by the way, could you have a 1lt set made up for me, oh and I have some other friends that want them too. . . . . .   JK

[jimmydeanno]

No offense to any of you, but both examples in the pictures look horribly amateur.  It looks like they took a separate cloth C.A.P and Grade Insignia and stitched them to a blank piece of ultramarine.  Why didn't they take the blank piece of ultramarine and embroider the insignia directly onto it, then sew up the back?

[Ford73Diesel]

Okay....and where can the rest of us order this wonder of wonders!

http://www.vanguardmil.com/store/index.php?main_page=index&cPath=6_390_412_414

Here you can order it, you might not recieve it though!

They don't have cadet ones yet. At the rate most cadet promote, I think they should have a blank sleeve and pin metal grade on it.

[JC004]

...At the rate most cadet promote, I think they should have a blank sleeve and pin metal grade on it.

That is what they approved.

[Ford73Diesel]

...At the rate most cadet promote, I think they should have a blank sleeve and pin metal grade on it.

That is what they approved.

For cadet officers, according to this memo, its embroidered. C/NCO's wear metal grade.

Heres a segment fromthe policy letter:

1. It gives me great pleasure to announce the Air Force has now authorized the wear of the Gortex parka for CAP members. This outergarment provides maximum protection from the elements and is now authorized for all members wearing the BDU uniform. This garment will be worn with an ultramarine blue embroidered device on the front tab
(see atch 1). Cadet and senior member officers will wear the device with embroidered grade insignia. Cadet and senior member NCOs will wear the device with the embroidered CAP and metal grade insignia.

[Hawk200]

For cadet officers, according to this memo, its embroidered. C/NCO's wear metal grade.

Heres a segment fromthe policy letter:

1. It gives me great pleasure to announce the Air Force has now authorized the wear of the Gortex parka for CAP members. This outergarment provides maximum protection from the elements and is now authorized for all members wearing the BDU uniform. This garment will be worn with an ultramarine blue embroidered device on the front tab
(see atch 1). Cadet and senior member officers will wear the device with embroidered grade insignia. Cadet and senior member NCOs will wear the device with the embroidered CAP and metal grade insignia.

I can understand Cadet NCO's, but Senior Member NCO's? Not like they're promoting, why should they wear a metal pin-on? And what about the cadet Airmen?

I'm guessing that no one at National thought about wearing metal insignia on the flightline. You avoid doing that on any flightline, not just military ones.

[Pylon]

No offense to any of you, but both examples in the pictures look horribly amateur.  It looks like they took a separate cloth C.A.P and Grade Insignia and stitched them to a blank piece of ultramarine.  Why didn't they take the blank piece of ultramarine and embroider the insignia directly onto it, then sew up the back?

It's exactly what was done.  No offense taken, but a piece of duck cloth at $0.85, and two cutouts left around in my supply box, plus about $5 in seamstress labor was a cheaper and quicker approach than finding a professional embroidery shop to set-up my own embroidery pattern and get a single one cut.

It wasn't supposed to be a permanent option, but it was supposed to hold me over in the almost year (or was it more) from when Goretex was authorized until Vanguard actually rolled out with the first of the order fulfilments.  It's cold up here in the winter, and fast-falling wet snow in the cold is not fun -- people at Maxwell don't always understand that concept.  Goretex was a much better option, and if I was going to wear it, I might as well have worn it in accordance with the regs (or as close an approximation as possible).

[SafTman]

I find it interesting that no one has picked up that Vanguard shows the old maroon rank slides on their photos rather than the grey.

[jimmydeanno]

^they're not maroon, it's just a crappy photo, they forgot to adjust the whitebalance in their camera before shooting.

[alamrcn]

^they're not maroon, it's just a crappy photo, they forgot to adjust the whitebalance in their camera before shooting.

Define "amateurish"... see Vanguard website.

[Murph]

Just received notice that my rank slides have shipped - I'll post a photo as soon as they arrive.

Murph

[JC004]

Just received notice that my rank slides have shipped - I'll post a photo as soon as they arrive.

Murph

Shipped?  Don't be silly.

[LtCol White]

I got the same email for an order placed on 7/30. Said my items were shipped on 8/6. We'll see how long it takes to get here.

[dwb]

I placed an order on 7/31, and I'm still in the "Processing" stage.  Last time I ordered from Vanguard, the status changed to "Shipped" after the package had been delivered.  Yeah, nice job with the status updates, Vanguard.

[Cecil DP]

I am at the National Board meeting in Atlanta and they are selling them there.

Mike M.

[O-Rex]

I ordered mine, rank of Major.

Today I got it (among other things) with the rank of Col.

Just so happens NB is today, and a pretty historically important one at that.

Called to correct, they told me to keep it, and they'll send another one.

Could this be an omen?

Dunno: where's a magic 8-ball when you need one?

Anyway, at least now they have them.....

On another note, went by an AFB MCSS today (had some business in the area, don't get out there much.)

If you are an Airman looking for BDU's, unless you are a small/extra short, or need a 6 7/8 Cap, you are S.O.L!

[Hawk200]

On another note, went by an AFB MCSS today (had some business in the area, don't get out there much.)

If you are an Airman looking for BDU's, unless you are a small/extra short, or need a 6 7/8 Cap, you are S.O.L!

Noted that at Shaw, last week. Looks like all that "Will be available in all Air Force MC stores August 1st!" guarantee took a bit of a bruising.

[dwb]

I received my Gore-Tex insignia today.

It's a little big for the size of the tab, but they look really sharp.  The embroidery looks nice.