Can a Senior Member NCO be a Squadron Commander?

[Critical AOA]

I grew up watching movies and TV shows about WW2 and Korea.  These included movies about the ground war and the air war.  While there was a bit of D&C here and there and maybe a few scenes of officers wearing dress uniforms, most of it was about combat and they mostly wore their fatigues.  That was my concept of the military from as far back as I can remember.

When I was in the Army, we drilled in basic training but afterwards practically never.  I learned more about myself and my fellow soldiers and working as a team during PT, obstacle courses, squad level maneuvers, helping the "slow" guy break down and reassemble his weapon, trusting the guy on belay while rappelling from helicopters, etc.  All I learned from learning to march was how to march. 

While I do see the need to be able to march in formation in certain cases, I do not see how it can be the main attraction for anyone to join either the military or CAP.  I know that when I was a cadet, it was the thing I liked least.   

[PHall]

Drill and Ceremonies is just another tool we use to teach leadership and also how to teach.

[lordmonar]

I grew up watching movies and TV shows about WW2 and Korea.  These included movies about the ground war and the air war.  While there was a bit of D&C here and there and maybe a few scenes of officers wearing dress uniforms, most of it was about combat and they mostly wore their fatigues.  That was my concept of the military from as far back as I can remember.

When I was in the Army, we drilled in basic training but afterwards practically never.  I learned more about myself and my fellow soldiers and working as a team during PT, obstacle courses, squad level maneuvers, helping the "slow" guy break down and reassemble his weapon, trusting the guy on belay while rappelling from helicopters, etc.  All I learned from learning to march was how to march. 

While I do see the need to be able to march in formation in certain cases, I do not see how it can be the main attraction for anyone to join either the military or CAP.  I know that when I was a cadet, it was the thing I liked least.   

Big difference between 12 and 18.

I don't quite understand it myself.....but there it is....in my squadron given a choice between all that we offer.....the majority of the cadets would pick Drill as their activity of choice.

Does not mean we don't push everything else.....that just seems to be the trend in my neck of the woods.

[Storm Chaser]

These paragraphs state that, "Command insignia is worn only by officers." 

Can someone tell if there is a regulation that requires commanders to be officers.  May a NCO serve as squadron commander or group commander and retain their NCO rank.

This has been answered before; many times. While current regulations allow for certain advanced promotions within the officer grades for commanders at different levels, there's no specific prohibition about NCOs assuming command positions. That said, there are discussions that would suggest that once the new NCO program is fully implemented, that command positions will be restricted to officers. If/when that policy is implemented, the appropriate regulations will have to be updated to reflect that.

For now, NCOs are not only eligible for command positions, unless specific restrictions (i.e. minimum grade requirements) are imposed from higher headquarters, but able to retain their NCO grade. There's also nothing preventing NCOs from taking an officer grade for which they qualify upon assuming command and reverting to their former NCO grade once command assignment has been completed.

[The CyBorg is destroyed]

I don't know much about the CG Aux's rank structure, but from what I've heard it sounds pretty effective.  Thoughts on that?

I was an Auxiliarist for several years.

In some ways, their system of "offices" (they do not hold rank titles and do not salute one another, though they are required to salute any and all military commissioned and warrant officers) does work.  In other ways it's as confusing as all get out, especially given that some are "appointed" and others are "elected."  Someone can go from wearing no insignia except the "member" insignia to wearing the four sleeve rings and eagles of a Captain, though the title is not used (unlikely, but it can happen).

My example:  My first job in the Auxiliary was FSO-SR (Flotilla Staff Officer-Secretary of Records, a very rough equivalent to Admin in CAP).  I wore one "ensign" sleeve ring and gold bars with a red "A" on them.  It was an appointed position.

I then was elected VFC (Vice Flotilla Commander, kind of like a Squadron deputy CC in CAP).  I switched to a "lieutenant j.g.'s one-and-a-half sleeve rings and a silver bar with a blue "A".

Even more confusing is when you go from a leadership back to a staff officer's position (example: a Flotilla Commander - who wears "lieutenant" sleeve rings and railway tracks with a blue "A" going to a FSO-CM - Flotilla Staff Officer-Communications), you are permitted to still wear your "highest" office insignia.

If you augment with the CG - and the CGAUX has a MUCH closer relationship with the CG than CAP does with the AF - then the "office" insignia may come off and you wear just "member" insignia, at the discretion of the OIC or NCOIC of the vessel, shore facility or aircraft.  I used to keep a set of "member" insignia with me just-in-case.

You do not address one another by any rank title or "sir/ma'am."  Regardless of the number of sleeve rings, or bars/oak leaves/chickens, you're "Jack," "Henry," "Laura," "Jill," etc.

There is also no chain of command; it's called "the chain of leadership and management."

http://www.uscg.mil/hq/cg3/cg3pcx/training/org/flot-officers.asp

[Panache]

CyBorg:

Are these two sites more or less accurate?

USCG Aux Collar Insignia

USCG Aux Shoulder Insignia

If they are... geeze.  That's pretty confusing.

[The CyBorg is destroyed]

CyBorg:

Are these two sites more or less accurate?

USCG Aux Collar Insignia

USCG Aux Shoulder Insignia

If they are... geeze.  That's pretty confusing.

Yes to both on accuracy and confusion.

The only level of "office" that has a rank title with it is "Commodore" (abbreviated COMO), which neither the Navy or CG use at all anymore (though many other navies do).

I remember meeting our District Commodore for the first time and, seeing the shoulder boards with star, immediately I was ready to snap to, render courtesy, etc.  He stuck his hand out, and introduced himself by his first name (nice guy, as it happens).

There was something about that I could not figure out.

Those who want to adopt such a system for CAP should realise that, while it does have its merits, it can be almost Kafka-esque in its complexity.

I have known people who have held office at both the Flotilla and District levels (simultaneously), and are entitled to wear two different kinds of insignia...imagine a First Lieutenant at the Squadron level in CAP simultaneously getting to wear Major insignia because of a Wing staff job.

[The CyBorg is destroyed]

CyBorg:

Are these two sites more or less accurate?

USCG Aux Collar Insignia

USCG Aux Shoulder Insignia

If they are... geeze.  That's pretty confusing.

Yes to both on accuracy and confusion.

The only level of "office" that has a rank title with it is "Commodore" (abbreviated COMO), which neither the Navy or CG use at all anymore (though many other navies do).

I remember meeting our District Commodore for the first time and, seeing the shoulder boards with star, immediately I was ready to snap to, render courtesy, etc.  He stuck his hand out, and introduced himself by his first name (nice guy, as it happens).

There was something about that I could not figure out.

Those who want to adopt such a system for CAP should realise that, while it does have its merits, it can be almost Kafka-esque in its complexity.

I have known people who have held office at both the Flotilla and District levels (simultaneously), and are entitled to wear two different kinds of insignia...imagine a First Lieutenant at the Squadron level in CAP simultaneously getting to wear Major insignia because of a Wing staff job.

The same site must think we still get to wear blue shoulder marks...if only...

http://www.uniforminsignia.org/?option=com_insigniasearch&Itemid=53&result=1777

[Panache]

The same site must think we still get to wear blue shoulder marks...if only...

http://www.uniforminsignia.org/?option=com_insigniasearch&Itemid=53&result=1777

Yeah, I saw that.  Maybe if you squint and pretend it's a dark slate gray...

[Майор Хаткевич]

The cadet officer stuff is all jacked up. But I actually think it looks better than what we have now.

[RiverAux]

The CG Aux system is actually less complex and confusing than CAP.   In CG Aux you know that the only way to get insignia is to either get elected or appointed to some office and presumably make a contribution to the organization. 

The current CAP system makes it entirely possible to wear the highest CAP grade insignia available to most members based on something you did in another organization 30 years ago. 

That being said, while I think there are a few things from CG Aux that CAP should adopt, I don't think this is one of them. 

That being said, even when done correctly and completely, I'm not sure that the CAP PD program produces leaders that are "better" in any measurable way than what I find in CG Aux, which essentially has no general PD program required of most members beyond 1 test on administrative procedures that elected officers have to have passed.  There are some in-residence courses that are available, but are not widely attended. 

[Майор Хаткевич]

Sounds like our flying club units need to recharter!

[Storm Chaser]

The grass is always greener on the other side of the fence.

I don't believe the current CAP system is that confusing when compared to the CGAux. Can it be improved? Absolutely! And it's currently being reviewed for such improvements.

All these comparisons with the CGAux are irrelevant as the missions and scope of both organizations are quite different. Sure, there are similarities. But when it comes to scope, CAP's main missions are quite more comprehensive than those of the CGAux.

[Eclipse]

The only confusion, no matter which side of the fence you're on, aux, civil, military, is from the outside.

And that confusion can be annoying, but it is irrelevant, and comes up so infrequently, usually from edge
players with no actual involvement, that it should be ignored out of hand.

[VNY]

CyBorg:

Are these two sites more or less accurate?

USCG Aux Collar Insignia

USCG Aux Shoulder Insignia

If they are... geeze.  That's pretty confusing.

Actually both of those are obsolete.    Division (group) office titles have changed and District Vice Commodores don't even exist anymore.

[Shuman 14]

I don't know much about the CG Aux's rank structure, but from what I've heard it sounds pretty effective.  Thoughts on that?

I was an Auxiliarist for several years.

In some ways, their system of "offices" (they do not hold rank titles and do not salute one another, though they are required to salute any and all military commissioned and warrant officers) does work.  In other ways it's as confusing as all get out, especially given that some are "appointed" and others are "elected."  Someone can go from wearing no insignia except the "member" insignia to wearing the four sleeve rings and eagles of a Captain, though the title is not used (unlikely, but it can happen).

My example:  My first job in the Auxiliary was FSO-SR (Flotilla Staff Officer-Secretary of Records, a very rough equivalent to Admin in CAP).  I wore one "ensign" sleeve ring and gold bars with a red "A" on them.  It was an appointed position.

I then was elected VFC (Vice Flotilla Commander, kind of like a Squadron deputy CC in CAP).  I switched to a "lieutenant j.g.'s one-and-a-half sleeve rings and a silver bar with a blue "A".

Even more confusing is when you go from a leadership back to a staff officer's position (example: a Flotilla Commander - who wears "lieutenant" sleeve rings and railway tracks with a blue "A" going to a FSO-CM - Flotilla Staff Officer-Communications), you are permitted to still wear your "highest" office insignia.

If you augment with the CG - and the CGAUX has a MUCH closer relationship with the CG than CAP does with the AF - then the "office" insignia may come off and you wear just "member" insignia, at the discretion of the OIC or NCOIC of the vessel, shore facility or aircraft.  I used to keep a set of "member" insignia with me just-in-case.

You do not address one another by any rank title or "sir/ma'am."  Regardless of the number of sleeve rings, or bars/oak leaves/chickens, you're "Jack," "Henry," "Laura," "Jill," etc.

There is also no chain of command; it's called "the chain of leadership and management."

http://www.uscg.mil/hq/cg3/cg3pcx/training/org/flot-officers.asp

Couple points I'd like to make, the sleeve "rank insignia" is really only permanent when it's sewn onto the sleeves of the Service Dress Blue Uniform (SDB). If that insignia is not the current office that you're holding you wear a badge called a Past Officers' Device.

Any other uniform you can switch out the pin-on "rank" and/or the shoulder boards to fit the office that you hold or go back to wearing blank boards and member devices.

Regardless if you are wearing Flotilla Staff Officer insignia or National Commodore insignia one day and Member Devices the next, no one will get rapped around an axle  about it.

Truthfully, by regulation if you're doing any augmentation to the actual USCG... member devices is it.

Again, on the SDB uniform the "rank" is really kinda permanent, so the USCG would make an allowance for that, but anything else, office insignia comes off and Member Devices go on.

Now I know some Stations "bend" that regulation, but most don't.

[The CyBorg is destroyed]

Actually both of those are obsolete.    Division (group) office titles have changed and District Vice Commodores don't even exist anymore.

So noted.  I was never able to keep all the abbreviations straight.

The CG Aux system is actually less complex and confusing than CAP.   In CG Aux you know that the only way to get insignia is to either get elected or appointed to some office and presumably make a contribution to the organization. 

The current CAP system makes it entirely possible to wear the highest CAP grade insignia available to most members based on something you did in another organization 30 years ago. 

In the senses you mention I give some agreement with, but all the differing permutations of which titles/abbreviations went with which office insignia were something I could never wrap my head around.

I never had to take off my office insignia for CG purposes.  Of course, WIWAAUX, the area I lived in was extremely landlocked and the only way to augment was at a now-closed LORAN station and a recruiting office 70 miles away.

[RiverAux]

The Aux office abbreviations are somewhat complex and are used way more than anything similar in CAP and they can be a challenge for new members. 

[The CyBorg is destroyed]

The Aux office abbreviations are somewhat complex and are used way more than anything similar in CAP and they can be a challenge for new members.

To say the least.  I was in the Aux for a few years and never learnt all of them, or which abbreviation went with which insignia.

[SARDOC]

The only level of "office" that has a rank title with it is "Commodore" (abbreviated COMO), which neither the Navy or CG use at all anymore (though many other navies do).

The Navy does indeed still use the title Commodore.  It's a positional title.  It used to be associated with O-7 Now called Rear Admiral (lower half) but now it's an office title that I've seen filled with Commanders, Captains or Rear Admirals depending on the size and nature of the command.