Can a Senior Member NCO be a Squadron Commander?

[lordmonar]

Is learning to march and wearing a uniform really why kids join CAP?

Yes. 

[lordmonar]

Is learning to march and wearing a uniform really why kids join CAP?

In my experience that seems to be the "cool" part of it.  Only after they mature a little do they see the Leadership and Community Service benefits.  There are exceptions to this of course but that seems to be a big part of it.

Marching and wearing a uniform are cool?  Now that is funny!

I would think an interest in aviation or aerospace would be the driving force for most.  Next would be participating in outdoor activities such as those of a ground team. 

Just being a part of a group / membership or the desire to belong would also be very high for kids who might not be with the in-crowd at school.  This would even apply to those who want to learn to be a leader and haven't had a chance to develop that skill elsewhere.  Even the chance to do community work would rank higher than marching and uniforms for most, in my opinion.

Take away the marching and the uniforms an the cadet program dies.  As for aviation or aerospace....we have to beg and fight to get our cadets to do O-rides.  ES....maybe 30% bother to show up for training and half of that to SAREXs.  Give them a choice and they would march all day everyday.

And the love the uniforms....I'm talking service dress in 100 decree weather sort of love them!

[abdsp51]

Kids join for any number of reasons.  When I sit down with a prospective new cadet I ask them the following:

1) How did you hear about us?
2) What do you know about us?
3) What are you looking to get out of the program?
4) What are your aspirations later in life?

These are my feeder questions to see what they are interested in.  Most say they want to learn leadership skills, flying, it gives them something to do and they want to use it as a gateway to the military. 

Not all of my cadets want to do ES and not all want to fly.  Usually when it comes oride time it's the same cadets raising their hands, in fact I have some who are terrified of flying.  Our o-ride coordinator scratches his head at times about it and both myself and the cc have said we cannot force cadets to fly if they don't want to do o-rides they don't want to.  The same goes with ES, most of our cadets have little to no interest in it.

[Eclipse]

The same goes with ES, most of our cadets have little to no interest in it.

I think to a certain extent it's that they don't have interest in the front-end work required to get involved.  When the SHTF we get all sorts of calls from cadets with their Airsoft vest in-hand who want to come and "help", though they don't have anything they can actually "do.

And as for aviation, let's face it, the average ride at a Six-Flags is more exciting then the average ride in a GA plane, especially if you aren't the pilot.

[SARDOC]

Is learning to march and wearing a uniform really why kids join CAP?

In my experience that seems to be the "cool" part of it.  Only after they mature a little do they see the Leadership and Community Service benefits.  There are exceptions to this of course but that seems to be a big part of it.

Marching and wearing a uniform are cool?  Now that is funny!

I would think an interest in aviation or aerospace would be the driving force for most.  Next would be participating in outdoor activities such as those of a ground team. 

Just being a part of a group / membership or the desire to belong would also be very high for kids who might not be with the in-crowd at school.  This would even apply to those who want to learn to be a leader and haven't had a chance to develop that skill elsewhere.  Even the chance to do community work would rank higher than marching and uniforms for most, in my opinion.

As far as the Uniform is concerned, it's obviously a major topic for prospective members and members who've been in for a while, just look at any post in this forum and wait until it turn's into a uniform thread.   I very rarely see uniform threads devolve into an Aerospace discussion.

I'm not saying it's right.  I wish we had more members pay attention to the other missions of CAP with the gusto in which they try to solve all the uniform problems in the world.

[abdsp51]

The same goes with ES, most of our cadets have little to no interest in it.

I think to a certain extent it's that they don't have interest in the front-end work required to get involved.

No it's that there is no interest and FTXs, SAREXs, etc are put out there for them and no one goes.   

[Eclipse]

No it's that there is no interest and FTXs, SAREXs, etc are put out there for them and no one goes.

Sadly, inertia seems to be the thing most abundant in young people these days.

Walking a search line or using a compass doesn't compete well with Call of Duty, especially when it involves
getting off the couch.

[PHall]

No it's that there is no interest and FTXs, SAREXs, etc are put out there for them and no one goes.

Sadly, inertia seems to be the thing most abundant in young people these days.

Walking a search line or using a compass doesn't compete well with Call of Duty, especially when it involves
getting off the couch.

Many adults don't have an interest in that stuff either. You gonna call them names too?

[Eclipse]

You gonna call them names too?

?

[lordmonar]

You gonna call them names too?

?

You called them "couch riders" a couple of posts back.

[Eclipse]

You gonna call them names too?

?

You called them "couch riders" a couple of posts back.

Ah - yes, I would call plenty of adults that as well.

[DMinick]

Personally, as a SM, I would love to do more of the SAREX and FTX and such! I love doing that!! But, I also have 2 cadets airmen and they are quite different! The oldest one wants to fly. He loves being in the air! My youngest one could care less about flying or ES or even advancing his rank! He loves to do drill and wants to get a color guard in our squadron. My daughter will be joining in November and she wants to the Spaatz and will do what it takes to get it. Kids join for so many different reasons. I think our squadron is pretty evenly split between flying and ES right now.  I do have to agree though with whomever said that it doesn't compete with Call of Duty unfortunately.

[Critical AOA]

Learning to fly or just learning about aviation, learning ES skills and leadership techniques will not only provide skills that cadets can utilize in CAP for use in real missions but also provide skills and knowledge that could further their adult careers later on.  Learning to drill does neither unless one's goal is to be a lifelong drill team member.  I'd venture to guess there aren't too many opportunities for that.  Allowing that to be the focus serves no useful purpose. 

[Tim Day]

Sadly, inertia seems to be the thing most abundant in young people these days.

Walking a search line or using a compass doesn't compete well with Call of Duty, especially when it involves
getting off the couch.

Some young people, but careful with the generalities. Not many weekends ago I had 14 cadets from my squadron attend a SAREX where CAP trained jointly with several other SAR organizations. As the SAREX was winding down after a long day walking search lines and using compasses, we were called to help evacuate a hiker who had fallen and broken an ankle. The cadets participated in a 2 mile litter transport over rough terrain, at night, and in the rain, with not a single word of complaint.

[Майор Хаткевич]

At 13 I got excited about joining because I saw cadets marching in BDUs. Eventually the interest shifted to training new cadets. To each his own. Now? I can't wait for GTA V to arrive, bit I won't even touch it until the day after it hots the stores because for me, the CAP meeting still takes priority.

[abdsp51]

Learning to fly or just learning about aviation, learning ES skills and leadership techniques will not only provide skills that cadets can utilize in CAP for use in real missions but also provide skills and knowledge that could further their adult careers later on. Learning to drill does neither unless one's goal is to be a lifelong drill team member.  I'd venture to guess there aren't too many opportunities for that.  Allowing that to be the focus serves no useful purpose.

Tell that to DEVGRU, Delat, PJs, CCT, SWAT Etc.  Or any group that requires attention to detail, muscle memory and DRILL being second nature to them.  There is plenty that D&C teaches and those aspects are useful as an adult.

[lordmonar]

Learning to fly or just learning about aviation, learning ES skills and leadership techniques will not only provide skills that cadets can utilize in CAP for use in real missions but also provide skills and knowledge that could further their adult careers later on.  Learning to drill does neither unless one's goal is to be a lifelong drill team member.  I'd venture to guess there aren't too many opportunities for that.  Allowing that to be the focus serves no useful purpose.

Disagree.

Learning to drill....and learning to teach drill are very good training tools for young people.   

First they teach attention to detail, following instructions, paying attention.
Drill also teaches esprit de corps, pride in team achievement.

Learning to teach drill.....helps with public speaking, projection of your voice, choosing where you place yourself in relation to your audience. Ect.

Now....it is not the end all beat all of what CAP can teach young people.......but that was not the question.

The question is what do the cadets want to do.
I can't think of any 12 year old who joined to molded into a productive citizen and future leader.....that's what we want at CPOs not what they want to do.

[Flying Pig]

After 13 weeks at MCRD, 4 weeks at Marine Combat Training and 8 weeks at the School of Infantry I'm  inclined to believe someone thinks drill is important.

Put a 15 yr old C/SSgt in front of a C/B flight of new cadets and watch that "kid", in the span of a couple weeks turn them into a decently marching flight...... The confidence in that cadet seeps out of every seam of their uniform.   Learning and teaching drill develops followers, leaders and instills the most basic mindset of leadership that all other building blocks of command and leadership are built on.

Why did I join CAP as a 12 yr old kid?   Uhhhhhh.... For the uniform and the drill team.  I really didn't know anything about ES or O-Rides.

[Flying Pig]

Sadly, inertia seems to be the thing most abundant in young people these days.

Walking a search line or using a compass doesn't compete well with Call of Duty, especially when it involves
getting off the couch.

Some young people, but careful with the generalities. Not many weekends ago I had 14 cadets from my squadron attend a SAREX where CAP trained jointly with several other SAR organizations. As the SAREX was winding down after a long day walking search lines and using compasses, we were called to help evacuate a hiker who had fallen and broken an ankle. The cadets participated in a 2 mile litter transport over rough terrain, at night, and in the rain, with not a single word of complaint.

I did not gather that Eclipse was referring to CAP cadets.... He was referring to the hoards of kids who have no interest in anything beyond Facebook and texting.  CAP is a counter culture to today's society. My son goes to a school with 2500 kids and the NJROTC unit has 100 kids.  My old H.S. is pushing 3500 and the ROTC unit has trouble making 100 cadets.   So cadets who join CAP are definitely a novelty.

[NIN]

Yeah, at 14 I thought the Army (sic) was about marching and uniforms.

Somewhere between 14 and 19, someone slipped some leadership, aerospace, character & ethics and field skills lessons in between the drill & the uniform when I wasn't lookin'.