Color Guard Captain and the American Flag

[jstobbsvergara13]

I have recently been promoted to the Color Guard captain at my squadron and in the past the captain has always been the one to march with the American flag.  However, it was recently brought to my attention that the tallest one in color guard should be the one to hold the American.  This has never been an issue before because our old captain was the tallest!  I cannot find a in the regulations anywhere that states if it should be the captain, tallest or simply the best at drill, any advice would be appreciated!

[Flying Pig]

Nothing official.  It just tends to look better.  On Color Guard, the commander really does not have a set postion.  however, if you are the commander, I would say its now up to you.  If someone is trying to tell you it NEEDS to be that way, that is not true.

[Майор Хаткевич]

Nothing official.  It just tends to look better.  On Color Guard, the commander really does not have a set postion.  however, if you are the commander, I would say its now up to you.  If someone is trying to tell you it NEEDS to be that way, that is not true.

The US Flag does need to be higher/even with the other flags. But nothing official.

[a2capt]

The US Colors need to be higher, the bearer matters not.

If you have to adjust poles to make it happen, like cut off a few inches from the unit/second flag, then ..

Wearing harnesses differently is only a fix for Standard Drill and other times when they are in the carry position.  When walking with them at your side, you want the pole to be hovering the ground.

[lordmonar]

The senior member of the team should be the American Flag barer.

7.32.1.3. The senior flagbearer carries the US flag, commands the color guard, and gives the necessary
commands for movements and rendering honors. The junior flagbearer carries the Air Force flag. The
Air Force flag is placed on the marching left of the US flag in whatever direction the flags face. When
only the US flag is carried, the color guard is composed of one flagbearer and two guards. The Air Force
flag is never carried without the US flag.

In fact the picture in the manual shows the American flag bearer as being smaller then the AF Flag Bearer.

[lordmonar]

The US Colors need to be higher, the bearer matters not.

If you have to adjust poles to make it happen, like cut off a few inches from the unit/second flag, then ..

Wearing harnesses differently is only a fix for Standard Drill and other times when they are in the carry position.  When walking with them at your side, you want the pole to be hovering the ground.

NO NO NO NO!  Where do you get this.

The Flag does NOT have to be higher.  It is on the right....that is the position of honor.  It only has to higher if it is flying on the same pole.

[FlyTiger77]

The US Colors need to be higher, the bearer matters not.

If you have to adjust poles to make it happen, like cut off a few inches from the unit/second flag, then ..

Wearing harnesses differently is only a fix for Standard Drill and other times when they are in the carry position.  When walking with them at your side, you want the pole to be hovering the ground.

NO NO NO NO!  Where do you get this.

The Flag does NOT have to be higher.  It is on the right....that is the position of honor.  It only has to higher if it is flying on the same pole.

And this, ladies and gentlemen, is why I love NCOs, regardless of their branch!

[Майор Хаткевич]

I learned something new today.

[a2capt]

Where do I get this?
Every single color guard competition.  Judges comments, score sheets, etc.
Whatever.
..and the AFM may say that the senior member carries the US flag, that's easy in the Air Force where you have the ability to put someone in that position. In CAP you don't. Your most experienced member may very well be one with fewer stripes and what do you tell the higher ranking ones? "No, you can't?".

[Storm Chaser]

In CAP you use judgment. If your most senior cadet is not as experienced or knowledgeable, then you put someone who is.

[68w20]

Where do I get this?
Every single color guard competition.  Judges comments, score sheets, etc.
Whatever.
..and the AFM may say that the senior member carries the US flag, that's easy in the Air Force where you have the ability to put someone in that position. In CAP you don't. Your most experienced member may very well be one with fewer stripes and what do you tell the higher ranking ones? "No, you can't?".

Why wouldn't you? 

[a2capt]

You've got a competition team formed, a cadet joins later, transfers in, has interest, whatever, and is of higher rank than an existing team commander, already functioning. You tell them, "sorry, you have to step aside." That's not fair to that person, or the rest of the team. This isn't AD where they can fill a billet by appointment. We use what we have.

[68w20]

You've got a competition team formed, a cadet joins later, transfers in, has interest, whatever, and is of higher rank than an existing team commander, already functioning. You tell them, "sorry, you have to step aside." That's not fair to that person, or the rest of the team. This isn't AD where they can fill a billet by appointment. We use what we have.

Maybe I'm misunderstanding you, but it seems like you're switching sides on this.  Your initial post implied that senior ranking Cadets should be chosen in place of junior ranking Cadets with more experience.  Now you're saying the opposite...

[a2capt]

Nope, absolutely not. I never said that.  Another post said the AFM says that the senior person carries the US flag. The US flag position is the commander. My position is the most capable cadet is the commander. Unlike the military, we can't just put someone in that role.

Of course, every man on the team should learn all the positions, there will be times and places when roles switch.

Likewise, the alternate may not take the place that someone drops from. You may want to put the junior flag into the commander position, and back fill from there.

[68w20]

In CAP you don't. Your most experienced member may very well be one with fewer stripes and what do you tell the higher ranking ones? "No, you can't?".

This punctuation caused my confusion, my bad.

[a2capt]

Heh, I got the period and question mark swapped on that. Even though I thought I corrected it, I must have put it right back the same way.

[lordmonar]

Where do I get this?
Every single color guard competition.  Judges comments, score sheets, etc.
Whatever.
..and the AFM may say that the senior member carries the US flag, that's easy in the Air Force where you have the ability to put someone in that position. In CAP you don't. Your most experienced member may very well be one with fewer stripes and what do you tell the higher ranking ones? "No, you can't?".

Yes...that is exactly what you do.  The Senior person....not the most experienced, best marcher, best command voice, tallest, sharpest uniform, shiniest boots.....but the senior in rank.....carries the U.S. FLAG!   CAP, USAF, US Army.......RHIP......and it is in insult to the flag have a lower ranking person carrying the U.S. Flag.

[lordmonar]

You've got a competition team formed, a cadet joins later, transfers in, has interest, whatever, and is of higher rank than an existing team commander, already functioning. You tell them, "sorry, you have to step aside." That's not fair to that person, or the rest of the team. This isn't AD where they can fill a billet by appointment. We use what we have.

Who ever said it was fair....also who ever said the senior member carrying the flag is the "team leader" in the sense that you use the word.  T

It most certainly is a billet that can be filled by appointment.......if you use a little leadership and forethought.

CAP uses the AFMAN for its drill and ceremonies....ergo....except in extreme circumstance.......senior person carries the U.S. flag.   

[Storm Chaser]

Insult? Which regulation states that it's an "insult" to have someone of lesser rank carrying the U.S. flag? It would be a bigger "insult" to put someone in that position that wasn't as trained or experienced or that couldn't do the job well. If it were an "insult" to have someone of lesser rank carrying the U.S. flag, then we would have officers doing it, not NCOs.

According to CAPP 52-8 (which I know is not regulatory in nature and does not cover all aspects of a color guard), the bearer of National Colors is responsible for the Colors element, to include calling out the commands. While it makes sense that this person would be the senior cadet, in CAP that may not always be the most knowledgeable or experienced cadet. CAPM 52-4 (which addresses the National Cadet Color Guard Competition) states that ideally the color guard team is composed of two cadet airmen (the guards) and two cadet NCOs (the flag bearers). Again, ideally the senior NCO would be the bearer of the U.S. flag, but this manual doesn't prescribe it. In fact, none of the mentions of the color guard commander states that this cadet is the U.S. flag bearer.

AFMAN 36-2203 prescribes the same composition as CAPM 52-4, except that instead of "ideally" it uses the words "when practical". This AFI does states that the senior flag bearer (it doesn't specify rank) carries the U.S. flag, commands the color guard, etc. And I agree that "ideally" this should be the case as long as it's "practical". If not, the most senior cadet NCO that CAN do the job of commanding the color guard SHOULD be put in that position of responsibility and honor.

[a2capt]

Thank you.

I had not had the time to compile those citations yet, other than knowing I've read them, and that's how we operate. "Ideally" and "When Practical".

[lordmonar]

So....you all are basicly agreeing with me.

The Color Guard commander by the AFMAN is the senior member.

Yes....there are ALWAYS exceptions......I'll be the first to admit that.

Either way.  The U.S. Flag is the same height as the state/service/CAP flag.  The members of the guard should be arranged by rank, not height, drill skill, uniform crispness, et al.

Anyone who tells you different.....send them to me and I will beat them with the AFMAN and the Army TM until they see the errors of their ways.   

[MHC5096]

Years ago...20 years ago to be exact...Plattsburgh AFB fielded an active duty color guard for a local ceremony that consisted of a Second Lieutenant, a Staff Sergeant, a Sergeant and an Airman First Class. While the Lieutenant was carrying the National Colors, the Staff Sergeant was carrying the Air Force Colors and calling the commands.

When I asked the Lieutenant about thier arrangement, he stated that the regular base color guard had a prior obligation and they were getting the job done with what they had. Furthermore, he didn't feel confident giving the commands as he was filling in.

Ironically, our CAP color guard that day consisted of a Cadet Technical Sergeant, a Cadet Airman First Class, a Senior Flight Officer and myself, a Captain. While the SFO and I carried the Colors, we let the C/TSgt call commands from the right rifle guard position.

The Lieutenant and I both had a good laugh.

[abdsp51]

So....you all are basicly agreeing with me.

The Color Guard commander by the AFMAN is the senior member.

Yes....there are ALWAYS exceptions......I'll be the first to admit that.

Either way.  The U.S. Flag is the same height as the state/service/CAP flag.  The members of the guard should be arranged by rank, not height, drill skill, uniform crispness, et al.
Anyone who tells you different.....send them to me and I will beat them with the AFMAN and the Army TM until they see the errors of their ways.   

Sir,

In my cadet days, during AFJROTC our color guards for all performances were made up everyone being the same height.  The senior cadet was the CC or it was the one with the most experience.  We used this effectively especially at the drill competition to bring home 1st place 3 years running.  And everything we did was per AFMAN and Army TM. 

[lordmonar]

If they were not arranged by rank...then you were not following the AFI or TM.

[abdsp51]

Sir if you go back and read the post they were selected by height and placed into their positions via rank.  This was the SOP unless we had someone with no experience involved.

[lordmonar]

Sir if you go back and read the post they were selected by height and placed into their positions via rank.  This was the SOP unless we had someone with no experience involved.

No...you said "the senior cadet was cc or it was the one with most experience.

[abdsp51]

Sir if you go back and read the post they were selected by height and placed into their positions via rank.  This was the SOP unless we had someone with no experience involved.

No...you said "the senior cadet was cc or it was the one with most experience.

Yes sir, I did say senior cadet and by that I meant Senior ranking cadet.  But we had a permanent Color Guard throughout the school year and trained as needed replacements.  The senior ranking  cadet was the CC, followed by AF and then rifles.