Closing the CAP Heath Services Yahoo Group

[RNOfficer]

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/CAP_HEALTH_SERVICES/

After years of working for preventive medicine, health, and fitness as a Health Services
Officer in the CAP, I have come to the conclusion that the CAP is just not serious about these issues.

I don't want to mislead others by pretending that HSOs matter to the CAP and the existence of this board does that. In my opinion it is a mistake for a CAP member to invest their time in this specialty.

Health Services receives no support from CAP leadership on any level. I've never even once received an email from my Region or Wing Medical or Health Services Officer. I did hear from the National Medical Officer once (not the current one) to inquire as to my credentials but apparently my PhD in psychology and Masters in public health were not sufficient to encourage further correspondence.

[NCRblues]

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/CAP_HEALTH_SERVICES/

I've never even once received an email from my Region or Wing Medical or Health Services Officer. I did hear from the National Medical Officer once (not the current one) to inquire as to my credentials but apparently my PhD in psychology and Masters in public health were not sufficient to encourage further correspondence.

And what email traffic do you believe is going on about medical things in CAP? Are you a squadron medical officer? If so, why do you expect region or NHQ to speak to you.

I think the vast majority of those of us on this board are well versed in duty positions above squadron level, and I can say for a significant portion of us Ned and his posts on here are the most we hear out of "NHQ"

[RNOfficer]

If you would trouble yourself to look at the referenced link and if you understand what italics are used for, you would understand that that the statements you refer to are not mine but rather those of the Yahoo Group Moderator.

[SJFedor]

If you would trouble yourself to look at the referenced link and if you understand what italics are used for, you would understand that that the statements you refer to are not mine but rather those of the Yahoo Group Moderator.

The referenced link is only helpful if you're a member of the group. Can't see any of the postings, it's members only. All we see is the front page, and a button to join the group.

Which, based on what you've told us, probably wouldn't make much sense.

It would be helpful to put a little more explanation and depth to the posting instead of just relying on italics. If you understood how to use the "quote" function on this board, you would probably understand why you're getting the response you did.

[RNOfficer]

I apologize. I thought that anyone who went to high school would understand what italics are for.  I guess not.

[cm42]

Entitled attitude and tantrum-throwing in response to perfectly valid points? Sounds like we're not missing out on anything.

[Майор Хаткевич]

Italics mean a quote in what world? "This is a quote". Tags make it a quote on a forum as well. Italics....not so much.

[Bobble]

Good golly, I hope the OP and/or the mentioned Yahoo Group Moderator aren't members of )H-278.  Those folks already have their hands full with their licensed K - 12 Substitute Teacher SM.

[Mustang]

Tags make it a quote on a forum as well. Italics....not so much.

This. Or quotation marks.  Italics impart emphasis, nothing more.

[pdjd7428]

To address some of the concerns of the "quote" I absolutely believe that the Health Services Corps needs a lot of work in the camriderie dept. In my capacity as SWR HSO, I attempted to reach out to Wing and subordinate HSO's to provide a conduit to voice suggestions/grievances. When I started this gig last year, I wasn't given a list of Wing, Group, and Squadron HSO's (there isn't one) I had to find the limited contact info on my own. Some HSO maintain contact with me (mostly in TXWG) and most don't. But I don't let that discourage me in performing my chief function at this level, which is advising the SWR CC and SWR Staff on anything Health Services related.

Only recently have I, in my 12+ months on the job, gotten an email from the CAP Chief, Health Services. I was "volunteered" into a working group on developing a Specialty Track in Health Services (I believe the merits of said specialty track can be addressed/debated in another topic). I chat pretty regularly with the Chief and the other Regional HSO's now, as opposed to a year ago when I first started.

Now, if an HSO at any level (or any wing/region) felt the need to ask me a question, voice a concern, or just want to network...I would be "stoked" to assist them, to use the contemporary vernacular.

[Eclipse]

my chief function at this level, which is advising the SWR CC and SWR Staff on anything Health Services related.

What, exactly, does this mean?

Specifically, ground level, what an HSO would actually expect to do or "advise" on, especially at the Region level.
Stay hydrated, eat right, exercise, get plenty of sleep, and don't smoke?

This question is like asking a cadet on the CAC what the expectations are - you generally get a quote from the pamphlet and then little else of consequence.  Not
because of lack of good intentions or initiative, but because being an HSO in an organization which does not provide Health Care or benefits, and specifically
prohibits its members from performing most of the duties their professional skills would allow, is the same as if we appointed "pilots", and then didn't have airplanes
and specifically prohibited those "pilots" from flying in uniform, while encouraging them to "advise commanders on matters of aviation."

I don't mean that as an insult or in a demeaning manner.  I'm honestly asking. People take jobs in CAP for a lot of reasons, and they usually have expectations
of doing "x".

What's your "x"?

[Flying Pig]

I apologize. I thought that anyone who went to high school would understand what italics are for.  I guess not.

If Im writing something by hand, how do I write in italics to quote someone? 

You came on obviously looking for sympathy for your cause and instantly start insulting people.  Good, shut it down I say.  How long were you in CAP before you figured out CAP has no medical mission whatsoever?

[Luis R. Ramos]

There are several style manuals. These direct writers on styles of writing bibliographies. One is the Modern Language Association. Another is the American Psychology Association. There are two or so more.

The MLA style stated the reason why underlining was chosen initially is because it was so much easier for printers to underline than italicize. However printer technology has evolved so much that italicizing is not that much more difficult than underlining. So in 2009 MLA changed requiring underlining and urges those at school to italicize titles of books and magazines.

http://owl.english.purdue.edu/owl/resource/747/05/

Note that italicizing is for titles. I do not think it has changed the use of " " or ' ' for quoting text material.

Having said that, this only applies to one style manual and one only. Not to all style manuals, just to school reports and a few others typed according to the MLA style and not to all public media.

The poster showed an attitude that should not have been shown on this board when those of us which are not required to see, use, and teach this style every single day pointed that out.

As it has been posted by others, italicizing on this board is just one more way of bringing attention to text. Not of quoting.

Flyer

[Critical AOA]

What, we don't have M*A*S*H units?  This makes me think....
No wonder I can't find a Hot Lips Houlihan at any CAP event.
There might be a Klinger or two though.
Way too many Frank Burns types.
Far too few Colonel Potters.
The Hawkeye Pierce types (very capable at their jobs but not at being military) are frowned on by the Frank Burns types.

[Luis R. Ramos]

David-

You just made me think...

CAP is like the MASH unit you just mentioned!

There are those that are Colonel Potters - those are the ones that keep saying "The CAP is a paramilitary organization -- we have to wear the uniform so the USAF will be proud; we have to interpret the regulations, manuals, etc. as written..."

And there are those like Hawkeye - those are the ones that go "We are not the military; the regulations, manuals, etc. are outdated, they have to be interpreted, etc..."

:angel:

Cannot say I found any Hot Lips, Klingers, Frank Burns, or Radar,  though...



Flyer

[Eclipse]

The problem is, far too many members who >think< they perform like Hawkeye, when in fact they wouldn't even stand up to Frank Burns' level.

[sarmed1]

Regardless of the types of MASH personalities found in CAP....I found the yahoo group mostly useless, I got more junk email about things with minimal bearing on CAP related topics than any meaningful discussion or networking between HSO types. 

I differ with the Hawkeye vs Frank Burns analogy.  My experience has been the bigger problem is the people that are about the pretense of what and who they are because of the uniform they wear or the position they are in while losing sight of why they are really there: the people and the mission.  (ie more Frank's than Hawkeye's)

mk

[CAPAPRN]

I realize the Burns-Hawkeye debate is of high importance, but I am wondering if anyone sees any larger message in the Yahoo group closing. The group itself was helpful for networking, but not really much in the way of a forum. I think the LARGER issue here is- what is the perceived future of CAP health services, and how does this impact activities, especially encampments that are held on state land and are therefore regulated by state health departments. Major Hiles, of tri state encampment, has gone on record as saying this years is probably his last encampment (the guy has commanded the last 5 and served the last 10 or so). There really is no malpractice issue here despite what Ned says- you require 3/1 million- that's what the major health care organizations require and it only costs $120/year for nurses. So here is the $64,000 question- is there a role for HSOs in CAP, and if so, what really is it (and quite frankly Dr. Google could advise to the level the regs are asking for, so I really don't see the company line as an answer. Would be interested in hearing you r opinions- without all the hyperbole, vitrolee and italics we have become so famous for  

[Eclipse]

what is the perceived future of CAP health services,

Very little as evidenced by the release of the HSO reg.

and how does this impact activities, especially encampments that are held on state land and are therefore regulated by state health departments.

It will have little to no impact whatsoever.  I know the one I commanded for 8 years and that has run for the last 22 was in no was affected in any external
way by the presence or lack thereof of medical professionals.

You'll have to be more specific as to the state issue. If certain venues require medical professionals be on staff, then the activity will have to hire them from
outside, just as a lot of camps and similar organizations do.

Major Hiles, of tri state encampment, has gone on record as saying this years is probably his last encampment (the guy has commanded the last 5 and served the last 10 or so).

And that is related how?  As someone who did 11 in a row as key staff and 8 as the commander, I can tell you 5 years is a lot.

Our Health Safety Staff ran the gamut from EMTs to RNs to MDs to one year we just used members with First Aid training.  We had plenty of blisters tummy aches and homesickness,
a few more serious injuries that had cadets wheeled out. and one situation that required contacting the NOC and Region (yeah, that was a fun night), but probably the
biggest problem we encountered was that the more skilled or higher up the medical food chain the HSE was, the more inclined they were to try and diagnose and treat instead of following
CAP protocols, which "seems like a good idea at the time", but actually puts everyone involved at risk, one way or another.

[sarmed1]

Based on the current (and past for that matter) CAPR 160-1.  Activity HSO or medical officer or whatever title, is pretty much an advisor to the commander.  They can still do all of the things like advise the commander/staff on key health issues, hydration, etc etc.  Develop emergency plans, maps/instructions etc etc for delivery of non-911 type injuries to local hospitals/md office/urgent care/pharmacy type places. Review CAPF 31 medical issues and verify CAPF 60's (or the new forms in the future) and well pretty much anything except diagnose and treat. (less "first aid" issues)
If your activity really thinks that they need a on site treatment capability there are pretty much 3 options that I see. 1- Pay for someone to be there 2-Find a AD/NG/Res component medical person to be there on orders with medical treatment authority/protocol.  3-CAP medical guy on their own time (ie not in uniform or on the CAP "clock") providing their services free of charge

Baring some kind of issue (ie interpreted leagal issue) that shifts the thinking the other direction Corporate CAP looks to be going down the path of only advise/consult/teach for HSO's; that is the forseable future.

mk