New Commander's specialty track

[ol'fido]

I think we should use William's accoutrements to denote commanders.

http://www.harpersbazaar.com/cm/harpersbazaar/images/kN/hbz-prince-military-042811.gif

I want my sash and sword.

[Luis R. Ramos]

I guess you will not have to wait too long... Here is your sword. Now you only have to wait for the sash...

:angel:

http://captalk.net/index.php?topic=2870.0

Flyer

[ol'fido]

That's not a sword.

http://www.thearma.org/images/S2000/New_Folder/p9160037.jpg

Now that's a sword.

Apologies to Paul Hogan and Crocodile Dundee.

[MSG Mac]

I think we should use William's accoutrements to denote commanders.

http://www.harpersbazaar.com/cm/harpersbazaar/images/kN/hbz-prince-military-042811.gif

I want my sash and sword.

That's not a "command sash", that's the Order of the Garter

[ol'fido]

Yes, I know what it is. It's called a j-o-k-e.

[BillB]

I think Vanguard stil lists the CAP Sword

[Private Investigator]

I think we should use William's accoutrements to denote commanders.

http://www.harpersbazaar.com/cm/harpersbazaar/images/kN/hbz-prince-military-042811.gif

I want my sash and sword.

I am guessing they both got the National Defense Medal but only one got a Good Conduct Medal   :angel:

[a2capt]

There's no CAP Sword on Vanguard.

Probably too many people falling on it.

[Storm Chaser]

I would argue that the CAP Commander Badge is only "necessary" for commanders that are Lt Col and below. My reasoning is that, unlike the Air Force, you can't get selected for promotion to Col, but must be appointed to specific duty assignments in order to get promoted, most of which are high command positions anyway (Wing, Region). In my opinion, retaining your permanent rank of Col is enough recognition as it is.

That's not true.

There are a number of Col.'s out there who have not been Wing Commanders or Region/CC or CVs.  There are other paths to birds in CAP that do not require command.

Are they common?  No, but they do exist.

Let me get this straight; I was careful to say 'most' not all, but still your counter argument was that not all colonels in CAP have been commanders and that while they're NOT common, they do exist. Ok, then...

While I'm not sure if other services have something similar, I'm pretty sure CAP copied this badge and its implementation from the Air Force. In the Air Force, unlike CAP, it is possible to make Brig Gen, and even Maj Gen, without ever being a commander. Taking from your quote... "Are they common?  No, but they do exist."

Based on this fact, how come the Air Force doesn't allow general officers who HAVE been commanders to wear the commander' badge? One possible answer is because being a general officer is enough recognition on its own. In addition, the promotion process for general officers is different from field grade officers, usually linked to an appointment/duty assignment. If you ask me, that sure sounds a lot like the way colonels are promoted in CAP.

Excluding national and region staff, in any given CAP wing, there's one colonel, the wing commander, and maybe a few others who were former wing commanders.

In contrast, an Air Force wing has 5-6 colonels assigned to that wing and some installations have more than one wing. This is excluding any colonels assigned to NAF, MAJCOM, DRU, etc. The Air Force has several wings in many states, which translates to dozens of colonels within that state.

That is the reason I suggested that the CAP Commander's Badge should only be awarded to Lt Cols and below. Being a CAP Col, in my opinion, is enough recognition.

[Private Investigator]

Excluding national and region staff, in any given CAP wing, there's one colonel, the wing commander, and maybe a few others who were former wing commanders.

Or former National Commanders. I know two in my Wing.   

[Storm Chaser]

Or former National Commanders. I know two in my Wing.   

And I'm sure your wing is not the only one since both current and former commanders/vice commanders (National, Region, Wing) have to live somewhere, right? 

[JeffDG]

Or former National Commanders. I know two in my Wing.   

And I'm sure your wing is not the only one since both current and former commanders/vice commanders (National, Region, Wing) have to live somewhere, right? 

No generals, but my wing has 5 Colonels right now.  Although 4 of them are PATRON members.

[Storm Chaser]

I know every wing has several colonels. But unless these colonels are assigned to your squadron, they usually stand out. Why? Because they're not as common as other ranks. Everyone knows that unless you're appointed to certain command or national staff positions, the highest rank you can achieve in CAP is Lt Col. Hence, being a Col in CAP is a big deal.

That's why I reasoned that the Command Badge is unnecessary for this rank. I know many will disagree. But using the logic that many have used to try to debunk my argument, Brig Gen should be able to wear the badge if they're former commanders since, at least in theory, it's possible for an officer who's never served as commander to get appointed National Vice Commander.

All I'm saying is that there's a reason why the Air Force decided to exclude general officers from being able to wear the badge. Using the same reasoning in CAP, we could also exclude colonels from wearing it. Is it going to happen? Probably not. This is just one opinion. Cheers!

[Eclipse]

That's why I reasoned that the Command Badge is unnecessary for this rank. I know many will disagree. But using the logic that many have used to try to debunk my argument, Brig Gen should be able to wear the badge if they're former commanders since, at least in theory, it's possible for an officer who's never served as commander to get appointed National Vice Commander.

The command badge denotes service as a Unit or Group CC, which is different and much more direct then serving as a Wing CC or higher.  Those who have served at those levels
have BOG, NEC, CSAG and similar badges they can wear during and after their service as national command staff.

Different badges, different scope, and no, not everyone who has been a wing CC or higher has been a unit / group CC first.

[Майор Хаткевич]

and no, not everyone who has been a wing CC or higher has been a unit / group CC first.

unfortunately.

[Storm Chaser]

The command badge denotes service as a Unit or Group CC, which is different and much more direct then serving as a Wing CC or higher.  Those who have served at those levels
have BOG, NEC, CSAG and similar badges they can wear during and after their service as national command staff.

Different badges, different scope, and no, not everyone who has been a wing CC or higher has been a unit / group CC first.

Eclipse, as usual, thank you for the clarification. The whole point I was trying to make was based on the premise of allowing former commanders to wear the badge, which unlike the Air Force, they currently cannot. I focused on the whole 'colonel' discussion and did not specified that in any of my previous posts and, for that, I stand corrected.

[Storm Chaser]

and no, not everyone who has been a wing CC or higher has been a unit / group CC first.

unfortunately.

Agree.

[Eclipse]

Rats - just went to put together the dates on my Master request and found I am 2 months short of what I can reasonably
substantiate towards Master.   I stood down as a Group CC 2 months early so we could do the CoC at encampment.    Also
noticed that two of my command assignments are not listed in eservices - nothing predates 2006.

I served as Group CD for over a year, but the then Group CC was rotating several people in and out on 6-months and 1-year
rotations to get everyone a little command time and I can't substantiate the posting. 

Double rats.

Seemed like a good idea at the time.   Get things in writing folks!

[lordmonar]

So?

Write the letter to Wing any ways......let's not worry so much about substantiation and worry about substance.


If you deserve it.....then you should have it.

[Eclipse]

...let's not worry so much about substantiation and worry about substance.

Deserving or no, either I can show I put in 5 years above the Squadron or I didn't, and bottom line is I can't prove it.
I'd expect the same for anyone else.

This is no different then the 100 other ways that members serve every year but never take the time to document - it seems
unnecessary at the time, and then 3-5 years goes by and you're looking for that promotion, PD level, etc., and have nothing
to show for all your work.

I have the same issue with ES - I'm constantly busy, SET'ing and Mission'fyin' all over the place, and then all of a sudden 3 years is gone and
I find myself expired.   You have to keep up with this stuff in real-time.