November 2012 CSAG Meeting Draft Agenda

[Eclipse]

Then its time to mandate growth - hammer real recruiting efforts until the "we don't have enough people" argument is no longer a factor.

So, then in the spirit of One-Size-Fits-All, all squadrons should be required to grow by 50% next year.  Doesn't matter if they have a healthy number of members right now or not, a Mandate It Shall Be.

For the average CAP unit, that would only require recruiting about 3 people.  I did that by accident last weekend.

There is also no such thing as a "healthy number of members" - no matter how many you have, you can always use more, and
when the number exceeds the capability of the meeting place, light up a new charter and find another place to meet.

You can't have it both ways, if you're not growing, you're stagnating, and if you run out of chairs, then you either buy more or find a
different place to sit.

"What if we can't."

Address that when it's an issue.

[jimmydeanno]

Then its time to mandate growth - hammer real recruiting efforts until the "we don't have enough people" argument is no longer a factor.

So, then in the spirit of One-Size-Fits-All, all squadrons should be required to grow by 50% next year.  Doesn't matter if they have a healthy number of members right now or not, a Mandate It Shall Be.

For the average CAP unit, that would only require recruiting about 3 people.  I did that by accident last weekend.

There is also no such thing as a "healthy number of members" - no matter how many you have, you can always use more, and
when the number exceeds the capability of the meeting place, light up a new charter and find another place to meet.

You can't have it both ways, if you're not growing, you're stagnating, and if you run out of chairs, then you either buy more or find a
different place to sit.

Completely agree.  Growth is a necessity for our organization to survive.  Too little emphasis is put on it.  Every mission improves with more people.

If you don't have time to recruit because you're too busy running the unit, then you are more than likely in a unit that needs to recruit desperately.  Drop something off the calendar, recruit some people and you'll find more time to recruit.  Eventually wearing 9 hats disappears, too, the unit improves because people can focus on their jobs, and more people come.

It works.  I promise.

[peter rabbit]

Why do you have so little faith in Wing commanders that you don't think they have any ability to sort out what will work for their wings?  That your opinion of how to run the WYWG is better suited to the situation in Wyoming than the officer entrusted with running the Wing?  That's kind of arrogant of you.

First, historical precedent, at least nationally, would say differently.

Second, you can't view a macro-problem on the micro level of "my wing's awesome, so there's no issue".

I can say "My wing is fine, so keep your nose out of it.  If you have a problem with your wing, fix your wing, but don't tell me how to run mine."

The idea that wings are islands and can "do their own thing" is regularly identified as a significant problem for CAP.

I concur with Eclipse.

[SarDragon]

Oh, boy, I get to do my second favorite statement regarding CAP.

The problem with membership numbers isn't recruiting, it's retention.

CAP has enough people joining every year. What it doesn't have is enough people staying in.

Here's an ongoing statistic for you, which I've heard at every CAWG Conference I've attended: Half of our cadet population has been in the organization less than a year. We churn 50% of our cadet membership every year! 50%!

[jimmydeanno]

Oh, boy, I get to do my second favorite statement regarding CAP.

The problem with membership numbers isn't recruiting, it's retention.

CAP has enough people joining every year. What it doesn't have is enough people staying in.

Here's an ongoing statistic for you, which I've heard at every CAWG Conference I've attended: Half of our cadet population has been in the organization less than a year. We churn 50% of our cadet membership every year! 50%!

Retention is an issue, and I've seen how it goes down.

1) Someone sells CAP, and gets the person to join.
2) The unit sucks and doesn't live up to the hype.
3) The person leaves after a few weeks or months to not renew their membership.
4) Unit scratches their head wondering what went wrong, or determines it was an issue with the member, not the way they run their unit.

In the end, it comes down to leadership.  But organizationally, we don't do well recruiting.  The average unit is miniscule and couldn't possibly be running the program as designed, despite what their unit self-assessments say.  Organizationally, our wings don't ensure that there is a CAP presence at EVERY airshow within their AOR.  We don't setup at homeschool conferences, educational conferences, etc.  Recruiting is more than just having a cadet hand another kid a brochure.

There are no standards for Wing Commander's performance in recruiting or retention.  A wing could go to crap membership size wise and the guy will get a DSM at the end of his tour.

[Private Investigator]

Oh, boy, I get to do my second favorite statement regarding CAP.

The problem with membership numbers isn't recruiting, it's retention.

CAP has enough people joining every year. What it doesn't have is enough people staying in.

Here's an ongoing statistic for you, which I've heard at every CAWG Conference I've attended: Half of our cadet population has been in the organization less than a year. We churn 50% of our cadet membership every year! 50%!

Nationally I heard it is 80% for Cadets you guys are doing great in comparision.

[JK657]

The Field Grade Officers are the ones that get the nifty little stripe at the end of their epaulet sleeve (Maj, Lt Col, Col).

Which has sometimes caused some headscratching on my part about how the Army does it...all commissioned and warrant officers have that nifty little stripe.





Note also that the Army Lt. Gen. doesn't get a second nifty little stripe.

Also, once you cross that field grade threshold, you get scrambled eggs/farts and darts...except in the Navy/CG, which make you wait until O-5.

The reason that all Commissioned Officers in the Army have the stripe is because NCOs wear epaulette rank as well. The NCOs do not have the stripe.

[SarDragon]

Oh, boy, I get to do my second favorite statement regarding CAP.

The problem with membership numbers isn't recruiting, it's retention.

CAP has enough people joining every year. What it doesn't have is enough people staying in.

Here's an ongoing statistic for you, which I've heard at every CAWG Conference I've attended: Half of our cadet population has been in the organization less than a year. We churn 50% of our cadet membership every year! 50%!

Nationally I heard it is 80% for Cadets you guys are doing great in comparision.

These are national numbers.

[Майор Хаткевич]

What is the stat, 27% of cadets get to WBA? Minimum time 8 months, so if we expand it to a year, we loose 3/4 of our cadets before they get to that point.

[bflynn]

In the end, it comes down to leadership. 

I think it's a bit of a cop out to say that it comes down to leadership.  Everything comes down to leadership.

When I look at CAP and say why would I leave, it would have nothing to do with any particular leaders or how they lead.  It comes down to culture.  CAP is just not a very welcoming place.  There are an enormous number of hoops to jump through to make what should be simple things happen.  It's like eating a crab - there is a lot of hassle for not much meat. 

When we have a volunteer walk in the door and say "I want to fly", our response should not be "well hold on there tex, you have to start with your level 1 and some other administrivia.  Then you have to pay for an instructional flight or two to learn how CAP does it, take another checkride and then you can start flying the airplane...but not with any purpose.  You have to do two or three more qualifications before you can actually do anything."  I'm disappointed but not surprised at the number of pilots - everything from 100 hour privates to CFIIs - who come in and walk right back out again after learning what they have to do just to sit in an airplane. 

Honestly, between dealing with CAP or dealing with the FAA, I'd rather deal with the FAA.

[The CyBorg is destroyed]

Then you should be a Captain or Major, no harm in that, and it emulates similar services.

There's no harm or shame in that, and it would encourage those interested in striving for higher HQ jobs.

The PD ratings are far more important then grade for people doing the real work in CAP.

Which is why I encourage a return to warrant officer grades for those who don't have command aspirations.

[SarDragon]

In the end, it comes down to leadership. 

I think it's a bit of a cop out to say that it comes down to leadership.  Everything comes down to leadership.

When I look at CAP and say why would I leave, it would have nothing to do with any particular leaders or how they lead.  It comes down to culture.  CAP is just not a very welcoming place.  There are an enormous number of hoops to jump through to make what should be simple things happen.  It's like eating a crab - there is a lot of hassle for not much meat. 

When we have a volunteer walk in the door and say "I want to fly", our response should not be "well hold on there tex, you have to start with your level 1 and some other administrivia.  Then you have to pay for an instructional flight or two to learn how CAP does it, take another checkride and then you can start flying the airplane...but not with any purpose.  You have to do two or three more qualifications before you can actually do anything."  I'm disappointed but not surprised at the number of pilots - everything from 100 hour privates to CFIIs - who come in and walk right back out again after learning what they have to do just to sit in an airplane. 

Honestly, between dealing with CAP or dealing with the FAA, I'd rather deal with the FAA.

Most of the people I've seen leave for those reasons are the ones who come in the door expecting to fly for free, right out of the gate, and get their panties in a bunch when they find out what's really involved. Frankly, we don't need pilots who are more focused on what they can get out of CAP, like free flying, than they are on what they can do for CAP.

[bflynn]

Frankly, we don't need pilots who are more focused on what they can get out of CAP, like free flying, than they are on what they can do for CAP.

Nobody said anything about pilots that want free flying and I'm confused why you would inject it.

When a CFI comes in and says "I'd like to help out by teaching", what is the answer they get?  Great, it will be months before we can get you qualified and signed off to teach.

Really?  Because he can also just go to the FBO at the next building over, tell them that he wants to teach and they'll take his social security number down and put him on the schedule...and even pay him.

We put extraordinary burdens on our members in order to do simple things.  I often wonder how much of our volunteer energy we spend on non-useful things. 

[PHall]

Frankly, we don't need pilots who are more focused on what they can get out of CAP, like free flying, than they are on what they can do for CAP.

Nobody said anything about pilots that want free flying and I'm confused why you would inject it.

When a CFI comes in and says "I'd like to help out by teaching", what is the answer they get?  Great, it will be months before we can get you qualified and signed off to teach.

Really?  Because he can also just go to the FBO at the next building over, tell them that he wants to teach and they'll take his social security number down and put him on the schedule...and even pay him.

We put extraordinary burdens on our members in order to do simple things.  I often wonder how much of our volunteer energy we spend on non-useful things.

Hate to tell you this Mr Flynn, but the flying CAP does is very different then what John Q Public, private pilot does.
A CFI from off the street knows nothing about search flying, mainly because he doesn't need to know.
So is it a problem that we insist that a CFI has to know what he's teaching? And the only way for them to know what to teach is for them to go through the qualification course themselves.

[SarDragon]

Frankly, we don't need pilots who are more focused on what they can get out of CAP, like free flying, than they are on what they can do for CAP.

Nobody said anything about pilots that want free flying and I'm confused why you would inject it.

You lamented that pilots have to jump through hoops to fly CAP airplanes. Here's my response, isolated to bring it into focus:

"Most of the people I've seen leave for those reasons are the ones who come in the door expecting to fly for free, right out of the gate, and get their panties in a bunch when they find out what's really involved."

As for the CFI thing you mentioned, our primary flying focus is not teaching, it's ES. A CFI can certainly contribute in the ES arena, but there is a defined amount of training that EVERY pilot goes through to fly CAP airplanes. Being a CFI doesn't exempt a pilot from any of that training.