Poll for military veterans...

[Stonewall]

We often hear of people claiming military service but didn't serve, or more frequently, those who did serve admirably, but decided to add a few pieces of bling to their chest just for more attention and respect.

[Майор Хаткевич]

Isn't it a requirement to substantiate any RM awards worn on CAP uniforms?

[MSG Mac]

I have no problem furnishing any of my 4 DD214, my NGB 22, or my Retirement orders. I would redact the SSN and Service numbers though.

[MIKE]

IMO, provide and then validate claims as part of the background check.

[Al Sayre]

I was happy to give them a copy to substantiate my PME and avoid the dreaded ECI-13...

[Stonewall]

IMO, provide and then validate claims as part of the background check.

I like that!  It would be too easy to fabricate a DD 214 these days.  So produce a DD 214 upon application for membership, then sign permission for CAP to conduct an official FOIA request.

Or, if you decline such a requirement, you are not allowed to wear military insignia/awards or count PME towards SM advancement.  There, that's it!  You shouldn't have to provide proof of military service UNLESS you're reaping the benefits of such, to include wearing of medals/badges/awards and/or credit for PME.

[Cool Mace]

I was happy to give them a copy to substantiate my PME and avoid the dreaded ECI-13...

Oh come on. The ECI-13 wasn't THAT bad.

[Stonewall]

I was happy to give them a copy to substantiate my PME and avoid the dreaded ECI-13...

Oh come on. The ECI-13 wasn't THAT bad.

I did ECI-13 as a PFC in the Army, then went on to complete various levels of PME. 

[RogueLeader]

I am missing my AAM from my 214, but I have a copy of the orders for it.  My 214 was created about a week before my ETS and award of the AAM.  I can, however, provide all data needed for the awards I have.

[abdsp51]

ECI-13 what's that 

[Garibaldi]

ECI-13 what's that 

It's that course that was replaced....oh, wait. you're being sarcastic. 

[MSG Mac]

ECI-13 what's that 

It's the old CAP Officers Course which was replaced by the online OBC. 4 volumes each with a test that had to be completed prior to being allowed to procede to the next level. It was proceded by ECI-7,came out in the 60's which wa sproceded by ECI-1 in the 50's

[Al Sayre]

Give them the whole story:

It's the old CAP Officers Course which was replaced by the online OBC. 4 volumes (of mimeographed, barely legible text) each with a test (concerning mostly 10 years out of date regulations and information) that had to be completed prior to being allowed to procede to the next level. It was proceded by ECI-7,came out in the 60's which was proceded by ECI-1 in the 50's

[abdsp51]

Did ya'll not notice the smiley after the comment?  I know what it is I never took it I applied my NCOA completion towards it. 

[MIKE]

IMO, provide and then validate claims as part of the background check.

I like that!  It would be too easy to fabricate a DD 214 these days.  So produce a DD 214 upon application for membership, then sign permission for CAP to conduct an official FOIA request.

Or, if you decline such a requirement, you are not allowed to wear military insignia/awards or count PME towards SM advancement.  There, that's it!  You shouldn't have to provide proof of military service UNLESS you're reaping the benefits of such, to include wearing of medals/badges/awards and/or credit for PME.

What about sections C. and D. of the CAPF 12? 

[MSgt Van]

While we're at it, make sure we validate the diploma / GED thing before pinning Lt on somebody. I mentioned that once before a member was promoted and you'd thought I'd beaten a puppy.

If a vet doesn't want to validate their awards, then they shouldn't wear them. Heck, I'll show my DD214 or "Citation to accompany the award of..." certificates to anybody. I'm kinda proud of them.

[Flying Pig]

HECK YEAH!!! And while we are at it make sure Sq CCs undersand that there is no such thing as a classified DD214!!!  Im so sick of hearing that nonsense!!!  I know a guy right now who runs a business based off of war stories he cant verify that are supposedly supported by his classified DD214. Just take his word that he is a green beret medic/ UH 60 pilot!! 

[The CyBorg is destroyed]

I have all my documentation in a locked fireproof cabinet behind me.

I can get it any time I need it in about 10 minutes.

[RADIOMAN015]

No, the member should have a right to choose what official document he/she wants to present IF he she wants to use that information for some sort of advance standing in CAP.
RM     

[SarDragon]

Back in your box, Ken.

[PWK-GT]

^^^ I'll get the duct tape out......

[Flying Pig]

No, the member should have a right to choose what official document he/she wants to present IF he she wants to use that information for some sort of advance standing in CAP.
RM   

I think that was the point. You dont have to present anything.  But if you show up with military ribbons and HALO and SCUBA badges, be prepared to show your legit. I can count a couple of CAPTalk Commandos who dont post here anymore because they were found out to he frauds. 

[Private Investigator]

When I was in the Army Guard we had a few guys who had lots of PX hardware but when we had an IG visit a lot of their bling bling disappeared 

[RogueLeader]

When I was in the Army Guard we had a few guys who had lots of PX hardware but when we had an IG visit a lot of their bling bling disappeared

I wanna be a PX Ranger . . .
Live the life of no guts and danger. . .

[umpirecali]

We often hear of people claiming military service but didn't serve, or more frequently, those who did serve admirably, but decided to add a few pieces of bling to their chest just for more attention and respect.

Isn't this a solution looking for a problem?  Is this really a rampant problem?  Perhaps I am naive but I trust the people in my squadron have earned the ribbons they wear.  If we don't then how can we be trusted with the character development of cadets?  For better or for worse, I trust people at their word until they prove to me their word is worth what mine is (except when it comes to money matters).  {Please don't go picking apart that sentence looking for exceptions.  The general point is trust.}

[RogueLeader]

We often hear of people claiming military service but didn't serve, or more frequently, those who did serve admirably, but decided to add a few pieces of bling to their chest just for more attention and respect.

Isn't this a solution looking for a problem?  Is this really a rampant problem?  Perhaps I am naive but I trust the people in my squadron have earned the ribbons they wear.  If we don't then how can we be trusted with the character development of cadets?  For better or for worse, I trust people at their word until they prove to me their word is worth what mine is (except when it comes to money matters).  {Please don't go picking apart that sentence looking for exceptions.  The general point is trust.}

The saying that comes to mind is:

Trust, but verify.

I trusted my recruiter explicitly, but you can bet that I checked my contract thoroughly before I signed it.  The other quote that came to mind is:

If it's not on paper, then it didn't happen.

[NIN]

Isn't this a solution looking for a problem?  Is this really a rampant problem?  Perhaps I am naive but I trust the people in my squadron have earned the ribbons they wear.  If we don't then how can we be trusted with the character development of cadets?  For better or for worse, I trust people at their word until they prove to me their word is worth what mine is (except when it comes to money matters).  {Please don't go picking apart that sentence looking for exceptions.  The general point is trust.}

You hit the nail on the head: trust.

As a commander, I trust that you're going to follow the rules even when I'm not standing there beating you over the head with the unit's fat binder of regs.  The ones regarding, say, vehicle usage, safety, flying safety, cadet protection, training certification, leadership, membership eligibility and uniforms, just to name a few.

Oh, wait.   "Excuse me, Captain. You're a Navy SEAL? Oh, you're not? Why the Budwiser on your chest? You got it at Clothing Sales? I see. You liked how cool it looked."

At this point, I'm wondering "OK, if Captain McSlappy here can't follow the simple stuff like uniform wear and not putting crap that he hasn't earned on his chest, can I also trust that he's following the slightly more complex and not-as-black-and-white rules surrounding, say, cadet protection?"

And then there is the question "Why does this guy feel the need to do this? Self-aggrandizement?  Trying to make himself look cooler? Cooler to WHO? My impressionable cadets? Wait a minute.."

ETA: As a commander, too, I tried to impart "Commander's intent" on my people when they were operating under indirect supervision. I wasn't always going to be there to 100% supervise my officers when, say, they took the cadets to Clothing Sales or were at a SAREX.   But my officers understood their commander's intent when it came to things like Cadet Protection and standards of leadership:  "The colonel is pretty serious about CPP.  How would he want us to handle this slightly nebulous situation before us under the context of the rules and his intent? Yeah, I think he'd ask us to err on the side of caution and 'more protection'."

So if they had a situation where, say, they could take 3 POVs to Clothing Sales, with 3 cadets in each of the first 2 vehicles and 1 in the 3rd, they're going to think "Hmm, yeah, no, thats not a good idea, one cadet alone with an adult in that one vehcile.  Maybe we need to take the squadron van, instead, even though its going to cost the unit a couple more bucks in gas."

Or "Hmmm, the van broke down on the side of the road. We have six cadets and two officers and 1 dead cell phone.  Its the middle of the day on the side of a busy highway. One of us needs to walk the 250 yards to the exit ramp and make a phone call.  While I'm sure the boss wants us to not leave one of the officers behind with the cadets, its probably less safe to have all of us marching up the narrow shoulder of this highway to the gas station pay phone in the name of cadet protection. "

[Garibaldi]

Trust does not mean skipping over integrity.

We trust SMs to do a lot: be of good character, not to fool around with the 3 C's (cash, cadets, corporate assets), be good role models, etc.

Integrity means, to me, that the trust we build engenders (I love big words) integrity among cadets and fellow seniors, enabling them to do the right thing even when no one's watching.

If I trust a SM to do a job, say, character development, and he does it well, no problems whatsoever for ten, fifteen years, then suddenly I see on the news that he's been busted for smoking pot in a parking lot, what does that say? What kind of message does that send? That trust is gone. His integrity is shot.

Same with the issue of ribbons and war stories. I trust a SM that his stories of how he won his Silver Star are true. Everyone in the unit does, there's no reason to doubt him whatsoever. Then one day, the Admin guy goes into his file to place a 2A or whatever, sees his DD-214 and nowhere in it was made mention of his serving in a combat zone, or even in an MOS that would place him in a situation where he would have to place his life on the line. Trust gone, integrity shot (this is really a paraphrased story about a relative of mine who claimed that his Navy service was in the first SEAL detachment in the 60s).

I'm not saying we should examine in detail every single member who claims valorous service. Not at all. In the end, integrity will win out one way or another, either by the person in question giving himself enough rope to hang himself, finally giving in and saying he made the whole thing up, or by "accidental" outing.

At best, the SM will admit his self-aggrandizing for whatever reason, remove the award(s), and apologize. At worst, probably...I don't know, blustering about how no one trusts anyone anymore, screw you guys, I'm going home, ending the problem but leaving bad feelings and a lack of trust for the next guy who really did save his platoon in Afghanistan and won a Silver Star.

This is just my opinion.

[Devil Doc]

I have no problem showing people what I have earned in this service. The one question I always get is, "Your in the NAVY and have an Purple Heart?"  Im amazed by some people. I see that 2 people said if asked they would show there documents. I only say one thing "WHY"? It is actually an law to show your DD-214, when trying to claim anything military. Is it Enforced? Hardly.

[Stonewall]

Oh, wait.   "Excuse me, Captain. You're a Navy SEAL? Oh, you're not? Why the Budwiser on your chest? You got it at Clothing Sales? I see. You liked how cool it looked."

You mean this guy?  And this is just ONE of many who, as most would like, trusted his word and undoubtedly, we trusted him and his apparent skills, to work with cadets.  Said "SEAL" or "Ranger", or "Marine Sniper" may lead our youth on some exciting adventures and we trust this person because of their claimed background or expertise, but then later we find out this guy isn't who he said he is and after we sent 60 cadets off the 30' rappel tower, we realized he wasn't a rappel master after all.

[For the pic below, notice the SEAL Trident.  This guy was trusted to run a Group, yet we found out he was 100% bogus.]

[NIN]

Its even more than just this setting, too.

Several years ago, company I worked for had a consultant come in to advise, guide and eventually lead a major ERP upgrade project.   Rumor was they were paying some obscene amount of money ($40,000/mo was a number I heard, but that sounds like BS) to have this guy from in from Chicago, stay overnight 4 nights a week, etc.

First day, he's in the conference room with us and introducing himself to us.  I'm immediately put off to this guy because he's got this "I'm going to baffle you with BS" vibe, and my opinion never gets better.

He starts going on about how great he is and why he's so great:

"I was a Naval Aviator. I flew single-seat A-4 attack jets off aircraft carriers, and then I flew S-3 Viking anti-submarine attack aircraft...."

I look over at my CFO and I can immediately see he's been reeled in by this guy's line of BS. 

"Wait, hold it," I said, interrupting this guy. "You flew Scooters, then got stuck in Hoovers?  Seriously?  Who'd you piss off ?"

This guys face drops to the table.

"Uhhhh, you know Naval Aviation?"

"Yeah."

Later, we're walking out of the conference room and my CFO pulls me aside.

"What was that about his Navy thing in there?"

"He flew attack jets like John McCain flew, off aircraft carriers. Cool, neato little things, they call 'em Scooters. But then he got relegated to flying an anti-submarine patrol airplane that has a crew of 4 and is powered by big ol' airliner-sized turbofans. In other words, he was trying to blow smoke up our butts..."

"Oh.."

It took a month, but after the third shift in "strategy" after his return from Chicago each week, we decided his "skills" were not needed.

[Walkman]

What might not be a bad idea (maybe this already exists) is to make a guide for us non-military folk for these issues. I've never seen a DD-214, so someone could hand me a complete fake and I wouldn't know. I know the rules for awards & decs are in 39-3. Is 35-5 where I'd find the rest of the info I'd need on any benefits a new member with prior service would be entitled to?

[Walkman]

Rumor was they were paying some obscene amount of money ($40,000/mo was a number I heard, but that sounds like BS) to have this guy from in from Chicago, stay overnight 4 nights a week, etc.

Off topic, but I want that job.

[NIN]

What might not be a bad idea (maybe this already exists) is to make a guide for us non-military folk for these issues. I've never seen a DD-214, so someone could hand me a complete fake and I wouldn't know. I know the rules for awards & decs are in 39-3. Is 35-5 where I'd find the rest of the info I'd need on any benefits a new member with prior service would be entitled to?

(emphasis mine)

Funny, the passage highlighted above was addressed here: http://captalk.net/index.php?topic=12787.msg232103#msg232103

At the time, several people held the opinion that CAP had no right to ask for a DD214, and would, in fact, represent a breach of PERSEC because it contains PII.

But you're right: you have no idea what to look for.

Look, the guy who I mentioned in my other thread? Yeah, he used to be a CAP-Talk user.  Don't think fakers in CAP are a big deal?  Guess again.

[Garibaldi]

Rumor was they were paying some obscene amount of money ($40,000/mo was a number I heard, but that sounds like BS) to have this guy from in from Chicago, stay overnight 4 nights a week, etc.

Off topic, but I want that job.

If I could be a BS artist for $40K a month, sign me up!

[NIN]

If I could be a BS artist for $40K a month, sign me up!

Go to clothing sales, buy a pair of aviator wings and read Wikipedia about the nicknames of jets.

If you can't dazzle 'em with brilliance....

[Al Sayre]

Here's a link to a sample DD-214 and what is on it from the Vietnam Veterans of America.
Might be handy to keep a copy if you aren't already familiar with it.

http://www.vva.org/Membership/Guide-to-Understanding-an-Applican1.pdf

It also has some handy tips for identifying potential fakers, especially those claiming Vietnam Service.

[RogueLeader]

Also note that that 214 is an older version and may not look exactly like that.  They do, however, contain the same important information.

[The CyBorg is destroyed]

When I was in the Army Guard we had a few guys who had lots of PX hardware but when we had an IG visit a lot of their bling bling disappeared

I've posted this pic before, but this guy is just so outrageous it's unreal.

He is (former) Wing Commander (Lieutenant Colonel equivalent) David Bain of the Royal Australian Air Force's Air Force Cadets...sort of their equivalent to CAP.  They wear the exact same uniform as the RAAF, the only distinction being shoulder flashes.



He got busted for wearing a LOT of unauthorised blingage, an odd combination of RAAF pilot's wings and loads of U.S. mini medals.

Maybe he figured that the RAAF would find it too difficult to verify foreign medals...why I don't know, just a guess.

We'd have to be careful in CAP too about someone from another country claiming service in his/her country of origin's armed forces and wearing them on the CAP uniform.  It's very easy to get foreign medals online, including the Victoria Cross, the British Commonwealth's equivalent of the MOH.

http://www.heritagemedals.com.au/medals-1/gallantry/victoria-cross.html

[SarDragon]

We often hear of people claiming military service but didn't serve, or more frequently, those who did serve admirably, but decided to add a few pieces of bling to their chest just for more attention and respect.

Isn't this a solution looking for a problem?

No. The problem is real, and it goes against the core values, specifically Integrity.

Is this really a rampant problem?

Rampant? Maybe. Maybe not. It exists. It is wrong for someone to claim to be something they are not.

Perhaps I am naive but I trust the people in my squadron have earned the ribbons they wear.  If we don't then how can we be trusted with the character development of cadets?

That is exactly the issue. If we verify everyone, then we aren't singling anyone out based on profiles, or "gut feelings".

[Terry W.]

I would have no problem giving mine up and have even given Squadron Commanders in the past a copy of my ERB with my SSN blackened out to validate the awards I have earned as well as the training I have received. I have seen questionable members in the past, not to a great degree, but too me it has to do with integrity and being a role model for the cadets.  Usually I have found the ones to be questioned are the ones with the biggest mouths, and that goes for anywhere, not just CAP.

[Dad2-4]

No problem showing my paperwork. However, I can substantiate service during Desert Shield/Desert Storm, but for some reason my National Defense Medal doesn't show on my 214. I don't wear enough AD bling to have had anyone question me though.

[PHall]

No problem showing my paperwork. However, I can substantiate service during Desert Shield/Desert Storm, but for some reason my National Defense Medal doesn't show on my 214. I don't wear enough AD bling to have had anyone question me though.

Apply to have your records corrected. You can do this through the American Legion and the VFW.

[Stonewall]

I have 3 DD 214s, a DD 215 (correction to 214), and 2 NGB 22s.  Between all of them, I believe they show an accurate portrayal of my military service.  Seriously, I have A LOT of crap that fails to show me as a high speed troop.  Other than that big, circular, hunk of medal I got for 18 months of service in the Pentagon from 1994 to 1995, nothing would really lead anyone to believe I my junk was bogus.

Even on my most recent 214 from my 2011 deployment to Afghanistan, it's messed up.  It shows a GWOT-E rather than the Afghan campaign medal.  Then, after the 214 was issued, I was awarded some sort of unit award, so I have the award order for that.  The rack that you see below in my signature block is EVERYTHING I've earned in the military, and while it may not be on a 214, I either have orders for it, or a DD 215.  At the end of the day, I don't care as far as CAP is concerned.  The only thing I truly care about is appropriate credit for combat service for benefits purposes through the VA.

[cap235629]

I have a few thoughts on this.

I think CAP should create a medal like the WW2 service medal for all members who are veterans.  If you wear corporates you can wear it, if you wear AF style you can wear it.

I have an even bigger problem with those "CAP Ground Team SAR commando/ranger" types who claim that they are high speed low drag ES types who can't even shoot an azimuth but can talk all day long about chasing a beep from an ammo can with an antenna.....

We need to adopt NASAR credentialing with a UDF add on.....

[Devil Doc]

Stonewall I am really impressed with your Rack it is nice and Big . I wish I was still in somedays I really miss it. Like my uncle said, "Your gunna be an Chief Someday" I only made it to HM3(E-4). Oh well I guess I am a BTDT CAP SM now .

[manfredvonrichthofen]

I have a few thoughts on this.

I think CAP should create a medal like the WW2 service medal for all members who are veterans.  If you wear corporates you can wear it, if you wear AF style you can wear it.

I have an even bigger problem with those "CAP Ground Team SAR commando/ranger" types who claim that they are high speed low drag ES types who can't even shoot an azimuth but can talk all day long about chasing a beep from an ammo can with an antenna.....

We need to adopt NASAR credentialing with a UDF add on.....

I agree with you idea for Es, if you can't use a compass and map, and you have a badge already, I have no use for you. Your raining was way too jacked up for you to be anything but a problem. I teach map and compass work along with finding your pace count very early on. I do save triangulation for later on, but it is great for finding yourself if your lost. But at any rate, there is more that you should know for ES than what is in the book, especially for Gtm3.

[Garibaldi]

I have a few thoughts on this.

I think CAP should create a medal like the WW2 service medal for all members who are veterans.  If you wear corporates you can wear it, if you wear AF style you can wear it.

I have an even bigger problem with those "CAP Ground Team SAR commando/ranger" types who claim that they are high speed low drag ES types who can't even shoot an azimuth but can talk all day long about chasing a beep from an ammo can with an antenna.....

We need to adopt NASAR credentialing with a UDF add on.....

I agree with you idea for Es, if you can't use a compass and map, and you have a badge already, I have no use for you. Your raining was way too jacked up for you to be anything but a problem. I teach map and compass work along with finding your pace count very early on. I do save triangulation for later on, but it is great for finding yourself if your lost. But at any rate, there is more that you should know for ES than what is in the book, especially for Gtm3.

Good. Now I have a compass/map instructor for the 13th!

[Stonewall]

Stonewall I am really impressed with your Rack it is nice and Big . I wish I was still in somedays I really miss it. Like my uncle said, "Your gunna be an Chief Someday" I only made it to HM3(E-4). Oh well I guess I am a BTDT CAP SM now .

Two things:

1.  The things I did that I feel deserved a medal or recognition, I didn't get medal or a recognition for.  I have 1 Joint Commendation, 2 Commendations, and 5 achievement medals, and I'd give them all for one medal that I could tell a cool story about.

2.  I separated from active duty (Army) in November 1995 after a 4 year, 4 month, 1 week enlistment.  Thinking I was done with the Army, I was a civilian for a whopping 2 weeks before I walked into the Army National Guard recruiter and said "I miss it, please give me an ID card".  Later, after I got out of the Army National Guard (after 10 years total time in service), I spent 4 years as a civilian before it ate me alive.  After 9/11 I couldn't stand it anymore, so in 2004 I joined the Air guard.  I seriously don't care what MOS/AFSC, I just love serving in the military.

[Devil Doc]

I can tell you have done alot of things and have alot of achievments Stonewall. I was in the wrong place at the wrong time and so happen to do somethings I dont remember, 2 years later they gave me an medal. I have so many problem with me, even if WW3 started they would deny me, lol. I do what I can, and live my life to the fullest. Each time a Cadet salutes me, it feels wierd I tell them they dont have to, but our SC has taught them to respect there SMs well.

[SARDOC]

No problem showing my paperwork. However, I can substantiate service during Desert Shield/Desert Storm, but for some reason my National Defense Medal doesn't show on my 214. I don't wear enough AD bling to have had anyone question me though.

I had a similar problem with the GWOT Expeditionary Medal.  I was ordered to active duty for the beginning of OIF/OEF and deployed to a combat zone overseas and was rotated home and demobilized before anybody even knew the criteria to award it.  That and other deployment awards through my reserve unit came later...but none of them appear on my DD214 because I was already released from active duty at that time.  They are in my service record...but not my DD214.

[SarDragon]

Did you make a copy of your service record before you were released? Who holds the original now? You should still be able to get a copy if you really need it.

[Slim]

When I was in the Army Guard we had a few guys who had lots of PX hardware but when we had an IG visit a lot of their bling bling disappeared

I've posted this pic before, but this guy is just so outrageous it's unreal.

He is (former) Wing Commander (Lieutenant Colonel equivalent) David Bain of the Royal Australian Air Force's Air Force Cadets...sort of their equivalent to CAP.  They wear the exact same uniform as the RAAF, the only distinction being shoulder flashes.



He got busted for wearing a LOT of unauthorised blingage, an odd combination of RAAF pilot's wings and loads of U.S. mini medals.

Maybe he figured that the RAAF would find it too difficult to verify foreign medals...why I don't know, just a guess.

We'd have to be careful in CAP too about someone from another country claiming service in his/her country of origin's armed forces and wearing them on the CAP uniform.  It's very easy to get foreign medals online, including the Victoria Cross, the British Commonwealth's equivalent of the MOH.

http://www.heritagemedals.com.au/medals-1/gallantry/victoria-cross.html

Since it came up...

MIWG has always had a history of close cooperation with the Royal Canadian Air Cadets.  It was never uncommon to have some of their cadets at our summer encampment, or a squadron going over there for a day of soaring in their gliders.

So, we had a crew of three cadets come over for encampment about ten years ago, and their squadron commander/chauffeur found out we were short of instructors for our cadet leadership school.  So, he does a 12 hour round trip home to Canada, and shows up the next day, in uniform, with all of his teaching materials, ready to go.  This in itself was impressive enough, and he was subsequently invited back the next several years to be an instructor at our RCLS.

So, now its 2007, and we have a void in our RCLS in that we don't have a director (the incumbent got a job out of town).  So, the powers that be decided our friendly Canadian could do it, along with a CAP officer who had moved from here to another wing.  All week long, he would regale us seniors with stories of serving in JTF-2 (which is basically the Canadian version of Delta force), or getting called up for two weeks at a time to go on missions in Afghanistan.  Or standing alongside Romeo Dalliare during the Rwandan genocide (I think they made a movie about this).  Or, of being present in the Pentagon on 9/11 and getting a bronze star for his crucial efforts during the evac.  Canadian para wings, six or seven medals, the whole nine yards. 

Something just wasn't adding up, and I (and a couple other people in the know) had the feeling that something wasn't quite right.  But what did I know?  I have no idea how the Canadian military operates.  So, I started doing some research, along with another member in another wing, who is a very good friend.  Neither of us knew the other was doing anything.  After about 8-9 months of solid investigating, I get a call from the other member one morning, asking questions about this guy and some of his claims.  I expressed my suspicions, his were pretty much the same, so we combined our efforts, the bits and pieces of the stories this guy told (he never really gave anyone all of the details of his stories), and went from there.

We were even able to get the Canadian Forces and RCAC involved, and their report back was very enlightening.  Never served a day in the Canadian military, did not attend their para school, three of his medals were for UN peacekeeping operations that took place before he was born.  One medal in particular, the Canadian Decoration, which is their equal to our Red Service ribbon, was configured in such a way (with attachments they call rosettes) to signify 32 years of honorable service--mind you he was only 37 at the time.  Most disturbingly, the RCAC confirmed to us that he was not a member in good standing, and hadn't been since his last membership period expired three years previously.  And he was not allowed to renew for cause, after having been judged "Unsuitable for continued service."  I know why this happened; it was bad, but it isn't really necessary to repeat it here.  Fact of the matter is he took advantage of our lack of knowledge in how the Canadian military worked; there was no way for any of us to "Stupid-check" him with "What color is the boathouse at Hereford" type questions.

[NIN]

Stonewall I am really impressed with your Rack it is nice and Big

"So to speak."

[NIN]

<snip>
Something just wasn't adding up, and I (and a couple other people in the know) had the feeling that something wasn't quite right.  But what did I know?  I have no idea how the Canadian military operates.  So, I started doing some research, along with another member in another wing, who is a very good friend.  Neither of us knew the other was doing anything.  After about 8-9 months of solid investigating, I get a call from the other member one morning, asking questions about this guy and some of his claims.  I expressed my suspicions, his were pretty much the same, so we combined our efforts, the bits and pieces of the stories this guy told (he never really gave anyone all of the details of his stories), and went from there.

Emphasis mine.

Slim doesn't mention that "member in another wing" was me. 

Totally blew my @#$% mind when I submitted a request to the Canadian DND to find out information on this guy via their website, and a week later literally got a phone call from a Captain in the DND's Personnel section in Ottawa saying "Yeah, we thought we should phone you up and let you know that this gentleman wasn't ever in the CF, and oh, by the way, he was in the Air Cadets, but he was invited to leave over two years ago..."

First phone call I made was to Slim.  That was a rather difficult one, since I knew he had a full plate already, calling him 4-5 weeks before his encampment was about to kick off and saying "hey, dude, I have some bad news about your CLS director" was going to cause other issues.

I also spoke to the Wing Commander involved, and they were pursing confirmation thru their contacts in the Air Cadets at the same time.   The RCAC's basically came back and said the same thing (with a bit more detail as to 'why' he was no longer with them).  Yikes!

Suffice to say, it was a big mess.

And you have to ask: what are the motivations behind people who are willing to lie about service?  Its not like they get increased pay.

[Garibaldi]

And you have to ask: what are the motivations behind people who are willing to lie about service?  Its not like they get increased pay.

I think mainly because they think no one will take the time to check and verify their wild @$$ claims in a volunteer organization such as this. Never mind that it's staffed by quite a few former and current military members who actually give a turkey, never mind that we have FBI background checks. It's a chance to play dress-up and recapture "lost" glory (that they never had or embellished to the point of uselessness).

[Stonewall]

...or embellished to the point of uselessness).

When I graduated jump school (31 Oct 91), our guest speaker was a WWII veteran who made like 4 or 5 combat jumps.  He gave us one bit of advice that I will never forget, he said "always let the other guy tell his war story first, so you can make yours better."  However, what we're talking about here, is far beyond adding to your number of jumps, or how much heavier your ruck sack was.

[Devil Doc]

...or embellished to the point of uselessness).

When I graduated jump school (31 Oct 91), our guest speaker was a WWII veteran who made like 4 or 5 combat jumps.  He gave us one bit of advice that I will never forget, he said "always let the other guy tell his war story first, so you can make yours better."  However, what we're talking about here, is far beyond adding to your number of jumps, or how much heavier your ruck sack was.

How bout how many deployments youve been on? Does that count? lol

[manfredvonrichthofen]

Personally it doesn't matter Why. It matters when and how we find them out and get it taken care of. I don't think it should matter what means need to be used, any means should be able to be used to find out who the fakers and flakes are. If you fake your service, or flake on a draft, there should be huge amount of consequences, freedom kg speech shouldn't enter into the argument. Certain things should be protected against those who would strain and perverse the constitution for their personal agenda.

[Flying Pig]

I have no problem showing people what I have earned in this service. The one question I always get is, "Your in the NAVY and have an Purple Heart?"  Im amazed by some people. I see that 2 people said if asked they would show there documents. I only say one thing "WHY"? It is actually an law to show your DD-214, when trying to claim anything military. Is it Enforced? Hardly.

We had a guy years ago who had a purple heart and a submarine badge.  He had been a Corpsman at one point during Vietnam and then later went to subs.  He retired as an E-8 I believe.  He was the father of a cadet.  We used to always give him a hard time and make up stories for how he got it.  It was all done in jest with him laughing right along with us.   He caught pieces of a grenade in some rice patty I think........

[NIN]

We had a guy years ago who had a purple heart and a submarine badge.  He had been a Corpsman at one point during Vietnam and then later went to subs.  He retired as an E-8 I believe.  He was the father of a cadet.  We used to always give him a hard time and make up stories for how he got it.  It was all done in jest with him laughing right along with us.   He caught pieces of a grenade in some rice patty I think........

We had a retired E-9 Command Master Chief (I think I got that right. I kept calling him "Command Chief Master...oh crap, I got that wrong again, didn't I?" He was not amused) in the ACA. He was our senior enlisted adviser.  He was a Vietnam era FMF Corpsman wearing things like the Navy Cross, Silver Star, Meritorious Service Medal, Combat Action Ribbon, Vietnam Service Medal, Republic of Vietnam Campaign Medal. 

Come to find out: never an 8403, his enlistment started at the tail end of the Vietnam War, which ended when he was still in his A school, so there is no way he could have any of that Vietnam bling, too, NVM the Navy Cross.   

[lordmonar]

You know this BS happens on AD as well.

It is not like anyone is actually looking at your paper work.

PCS...add a couple of ribbons......who's to know.

In my 22 years on AD the ONLY time someone actually pulled up my records and check my chest candy was at NCO Prep School.

I don't have a problem with CAP making me produce a DD214 or orders showing I earned my bling.......but let's follow that up with realistic rules....how often do I have to proove it?  Everytime I transfer or just when I first join?  What about those who are still in the AD/RES/NG military? 

As a commander.....I think you already have the authority to question anyones qualifications and the right/duty to have them produce documentation to prove it.  This goes for everthing from their driver's licnese, FAA certs, FEMA training, ES rateings, and bling.

You don't have to show me.....but you don't have to be in CAP either.

[RogueLeader]

As a commander.....I think you already have the authority to question anyones qualifications and the right/duty to have them produce documentation to prove it.  This goes for everthing from their driver's licnese, FAA certs, FEMA training, ES rateings, and bling.

You don't have to show me.....but you don't have to be in CAP either.

The issue with CAP quals, and FEMA is that I already had to once, and it was put into the system.  Non-renewing events should not have to be re-validated.  That was already done, and logged.  For renewing events, like updating SQTR's, CAP DL, I can understand that, and its fine. 

Too bad there is no way to enter military awards onto E-Services under awards, so that way, there is established proof of awards.

[Flying Pig]

We had a guy years ago who had a purple heart and a submarine badge.  He had been a Corpsman at one point during Vietnam and then later went to subs.  He retired as an E-8 I believe.  He was the father of a cadet.  We used to always give him a hard time and make up stories for how he got it.  It was all done in jest with him laughing right along with us.   He caught pieces of a grenade in some rice patty I think........

We had a retired E-9 Command Master Chief (I think I got that right. I kept calling him "Command Chief Master...oh crap, I got that wrong again, didn't I?" He was not amused) in the ACA. He was our senior enlisted adviser.  He was a Vietnam era FMF Corpsman wearing things like the Navy Cross, Silver Star, Meritorious Service Medal, Combat Action Ribbon, Vietnam Service Medal, Republic of Vietnam Campaign Medal. 

Come to find out: never an 8403, his enlistment started at the tail end of the Vietnam War, which ended when he was still in his A school, so there is no way he could have any of that Vietnam bling, too, NVM the Navy Cross.

Nice thing about our guy, we were in San Diego at a BCS and he got us a tour of the USS New Jersey with about 30 minutes notice WHILE she was still an active battleship.   Wearing his Senior Chief tans with all of his bells and whistles.  So at least the part about being an active E8 was legit  :clap:

However, when I was in the USAR, my platoon Sgt wore a SEAL Trident and Navy jump wings on his Army uniform. Dude was a real E8... as far as being a SEAL, had never served a day in the Navy.  Ooooops.  However his service records listed the awards as well as his BUDs class that he supposedly attended.   His entire world came crashing down when I asked a friend of mine (off duty) if he knew this guy.  He said No, looked up his name in a SEAL data base and that was the beginning of the end.  20 years of legit Army service ended with being dishonorably discharged as an E1.  The lie that guy lived was intense.   He had me convinced 100% 

[a2capt]

....how often do I have to proove it?  Everytime I transfer or just when I first join? ...

You just said it, too. PCS, add a couple ribbons. Transfer Wings, add a few ribbons. Same, no?

So.. if it's not in the 201 file, and it's pinned on, it should be proven. Of course, grade is on the eServices record, so if the guy comes in with silver leaves on, and it says Major .. well then.

[Devil Doc]

Ya, but the biggest clue someone is BSing is they are gloating about there service. The majority of the bonofide warrior are very modest and you could not tell them from one vet to another vet.

[lordmonar]

I like the idea of putting all our ribbons and decorations in services.

It's the 21st century.....

[PHall]

I like the idea of putting all our ribbons and decorations in services.

It's the 21st century.....

And yet, the Air Force still can't get mine right. I have my retirement DD214, a pair of DD215's and three NGB22's to document all of my stuff.
Shouldn't have needed the DD215's if the Personnel Geeks could ever get their acts together...

[Devil Doc]

Well PHall, the Air Force cant catch up with BAMF's like you.

[PHall]

Well PHall, the Air Force cant catch up with BAMF's like you.

It's not like retirement is a surprise. They had at least a year's warning and it was still a surprise to them.

It also took two solid days to out process. I visited offices on base I didn't even know that they existed. But they're on the out-processing checklist... 

[SarDragon]

Well PHall, the Air Force cant catch up with BAMF's like you.

It's not like retirement is a surprise. They had at least a year's warning and it was still a surprise to them.

It also took two solid days to out process. I visited offices on base I didn't even know that they existed. But they're on the out-processing checklist... 

When I out-processed to retire, they wanted me to do a whiz quiz. I asked what they were going to do if it came back positive. One guy said that I would be place on admin hold and not allowed to transfer. My next Q was to determine how long the sample would take to process, and was told two weeks. At that time, I pointed out to them that I was out-processing for retirement, and would be starting terminal leave within a week. The dumber of the two went, "Duh?", and the bright one said, "Get outta here!", after he signed my check-out sheet.

[PHall]

Never fails to amaze me how routine things continue to surprise the Personnel types...

[flyboy53]

I am missing my AAM from my 214, but I have a copy of the orders for it.  My 214 was created about a week before my ETS and award of the AAM.  I can, however, provide all data needed for the awards I have.

That's not a problem. You simply go through the appropriate military personnel center or NRPC and request a correction to the DD Form 214. You will receive a DD Form 215 to attach to it.

As far as presenting a DD Form 214, I did just that when I joined not so much because of the awards and decorations, but because of my military training.

These days of imposters, I would rather be on the up and up especially since my DD Form 214 listed all of my permanent qualification badges, which I guess is uncommon for the Air Force. I also have two DD Form 215s.

I like the idea of putting all our ribbons and decorations in services.

It's the 21st century.....

Me, too!

[GroundHawg]

I have 3 DD 214s, a DD 215 (correction to 214), and 2 NGB 22s.  Between all of them, I believe they show an accurate portrayal of my military service.  Seriously, I have A LOT of crap that fails to show me as a high speed troop.  Other than that big, circular, hunk of medal I got for 18 months of service in the Pentagon from 1994 to 1995, nothing would really lead anyone to believe I my junk was bogus.

Even on my most recent 214 from my 2011 deployment to Afghanistan, it's messed up.  It shows a GWOT-E rather than the Afghan campaign medal.  Then, after the 214 was issued, I was awarded some sort of unit award, so I have the award order for that.  The rack that you see below in my signature block is EVERYTHING I've earned in the military, and while it may not be on a 214, I either have orders for it, or a DD 215.  At the end of the day, I don't care as far as CAP is concerned.  The only thing I truly care about is appropriate credit for combat service for benefits purposes through the VA.

I think this is par for the course in todays military. Im in the same boat as you, and have pretty much given up on getting them all into one place.

[Devil Doc]

BUMP... LOL

This post is going dead. 

[J2H]

I have no issues forking a copy over.  My 214 is missing a lot of ribbons that I earned and had on my VMPF which I can no longer access.  I did ALS butforget if the ribbon is on my 214

[Stonewall]

I have no issues forking a copy over.  My 214 is missing a lot of ribbons that I earned and had on my VMPF which I can no longer access.  I did ALS butforget if the ribbon is on my 214

Remember, with appropriate documentation, you can submit for a DD 215 to correct your 214.

I forget what it qualifies for, but you can use ALS in lieu of some sort of professional development in CAP.  Maybe squadron leadership school or something.

Bottom line is, no one is going to ask for documentation of your SF skill badge with star on top.  But if you show up sporting a SCUBA bubble, HALO wings or a Purple Heart, you're likely to be asked to show supporting documentation, i.e. 214.

[flyboy53]

I have no issues forking a copy over.  My 214 is missing a lot of ribbons that I earned and had on my VMPF which I can no longer access.  I did ALS butforget if the ribbon is on my 214

Remember, with appropriate documentation, you can submit for a DD 215 to correct your 214.

I forget what it qualifies for, but you can use ALS in lieu of some sort of professional development in CAP.  Maybe squadron leadership school or something.

Bottom line is, no one is going to ask for documentation of your SF skill badge with star on top.  But if you show up sporting a SCUBA bubble, HALO wings or a Purple Heart, you're likely to be asked to show supporting documentation, i.e. 214.

Not ALS -- the various NCO academys qualify to waive things like the old ECI-13, Region or National staff colleges. I have a GRW, so I haven't checked lately to see if the NCO Academy diploma now waives OBC.

Also, I made sure that all of my badges were on my last DD Form 214 just because....you can request that, you know.

[J2H]

never made it to E6 so no nco academy

[OldGuard]

My squadron asked for it.. Never really asked 

[The Infamous Meerkat]

No issue here... Seems like I'm required to keep the friggin thing on my person anymore, every place I go supposedly needs to see it for one reason or another.... What's one more?

[Texas Raiders]

I'm surprised to see that someone voted, "Yes."  I submitted a copy of my DD214 to my squadron when I joined.  I was not asked to produce a copy, but was told that any military awards or devices could be questioned without proper documentation.  I was told early on in my military career not to depend on the yeomen 100% and to keep a copy of everything.  I was also told to make friends with the yeomen, cooks, storekeepers, and corpsmen.     I kept two file boxes full of documentation, including LES's, request chits, award narratives, training documentation, qualification packets and certificates, promotion certificates, OC spray qual letter (15 copies), personal copies of my medical and personnel records, etc.  It paid off on several occasions and in one instance, resulted in 8 months of backpay for an overlooked allowance.   

Unfortunately, there are scabs (I'd love to use another term), some of which never served in the first place, that wear uniforms and decorations they did not earn.  Those individuals have betrayed the trust of many and as a result, brought skepticism upon real veterans.  I am a proud military veteran and have no issues with proving it when challenged.  I'd like to hope that all veterans feel that way as well.

[Stonewall]

I kept two file boxes full of documentation, including LES's, request chits, award narratives, training documentation, qualification packets and certificates, promotion certificates, OC spray qual letter (15 copies), personal copies of my medical and personnel records, etc.  It paid off on several occasions and in one instance, resulted in 8 months of backpay for an overlooked allowance.   

I save EVERYTHING, even the things that are likely no longer relevant or aren't even "official".

Here is my first LES...

[Texas Raiders]

I kept two file boxes full of documentation, including LES's, request chits, award narratives, training documentation, qualification packets and certificates, promotion certificates, OC spray qual letter (15 copies), personal copies of my medical and personnel records, etc.  It paid off on several occasions and in one instance, resulted in 8 months of backpay for an overlooked allowance.   

I save EVERYTHING, even the things that are likely no longer relevant or aren't even "official".

Here is my first LES...

Right on!  I have my first as well. 

[Pylon]

I would say yes, but if you're still in (and therefore have no DD-214 yet) there has to be a secondary method for CAP to verify military awards.  This is where it gets dicey and more difficult to define, as each service has different online personnel systems and whatnot.


And that lone yes to the poll, based on this thread, I would guess is Radioman015.  Not surprising.

[Stonewall]

I would say yes, but if you're still in (and therefore have no DD-214 yet) there has to be a secondary method for CAP to verify military awards.  This is where it gets dicey and more difficult to define, as each service has different online personnel systems and whatnot.

I went from AD to Guard, so this wasn't an issue.  But when my wife enlisted into the Guard, she got a 214 once she completed BMT and Tech School and returned to TG status.  Then, of course, if you're ever activated, you get a 214 post-deployment.  That's why I have 3 214s, a 215, and 2 NGB 22's.

[Flying Pig]

There was a criminal case where a guy was convicted of forgery, then submitted a HUGE stack of military documents in an effort to get consideration on his sentence.  His DD214 showed Special Forces 18D (medic) Combat Dive, Parachutist and a huge stack of medals.

Problem is..... his DD214 and his NGB 22 WERE real.  He had managed  to actually get some admin clerk to actually put that stuff on his records when he got out.  But when you called the actual schools, JFK Special Warfare, Dive School and other places, they had no record of him ever attending.  So his DD214 and his NGB22 were real, but the foundations behind the entries was fraudulent.  Oh......  I forgot the best part, he also lied about being an Army UH60 Pilot.  He had his civilian CFI, but was never a military pilot.  This lie got him a job flying a twin engine helicopter for an EMS operator.

Yeah, thats an extreme case.... but it happens.  And this guy owns a company that trains LE, EMS and military flight crews.   All based on lies. 

[Texas Raiders]

There was a criminal case where a guy was convicted of forgery, then submitted a HUGE stack of military documents in an effort to get consideration on his sentence.  His DD214 showed Special Forces 18D (medic) Combat Dive, Parachutist and a huge stack of medals.

Problem is..... his DD214 and his NGB 22 WERE real.  He had managed  to actually get some admin clerk to actually put that stuff on his records when he got out.  But when you called the actual schools, JFK Special Warfare, Dive School and other places, they had no record of him ever attending.  So his DD214 and his NGB22 were real, but the foundations behind the entries was fraudulent.  Oh......  I forgot the best part, he also lied about being an Army UH60 Pilot.  He had his civilian CFI, but was never a military pilot.  This lie got him a job flying a twin engine helicopter for an EMS operator.

Yeah, thats an extreme case.... but it happens.  And this guy owns a company that trains LE, EMS and military flight crews.   All based on lies.

Sickening.  If you haven't before, you should look up Senior Chief Don Shipley.  He is a retired US Navy SEAL who maintains the SEAL database and whose hobby is busting SEAL imposters.  He's really good at it and has a nice collection of Youtube vids that demonstrate his talent. 

[Cliff_Chambliss]

There are a number of web sites for the SEALS, Special Operations, Rangers, etc. that maintain listings of fakes.  Look up "Stolen Valor" and read some of the bios they have posted .

[The CyBorg is destroyed]

I would say yes, but if you're still in (and therefore have no DD-214 yet) there has to be a secondary method for CAP to verify military awards.  This is where it gets dicey and more difficult to define, as each service has different online personnel systems and whatnot.

Couldn't you go to your base personnel office and get some sort of a print-out of your documentation?

[Flying Pig]

You can still get that page in your records that verifies your decorations.  I personally saw mine updated a few times.  Ive been out a while..... do they still hand you your actual hard copy record book to hand carry to your new unit?   I know a guy personally who left an active duty with one set of minuscule awards, and checked in to their new Army Reserve unit with jump, dive. AND a SEAL trident and managed to go from E-6 to E-8 until he got caught.  Seriously... An Army guy with a SEAL trident.  There are a few, but not many.   He was caught by asking a simple question....

Q:"Hey top.... (Army slang for MSgt) What BUDs class were you in?"   

A:"I was already in Force Recon in the Marines as a sniper, so the Navy granted me a waiver for BUDs.  I was one of the few because I was brought over to develop their sniper program"

A:"F------- awesome!  Its an honor to work with you"  (totally fooled)

I talk to a SEAL about my awesome MSgt..... and he says "Reeeeeeeeeaaaaaalllllyyyyy?"   He emails me back about 30 minutes later and says "Hey dude.... your guy is a 100% fake."  I say, "Nahhhh, seriously dude.  Ive watched the guy personally go from E6 to E8.  They would have caught him by now."

By the next drill, MSgt was a Pvt/E1 and was being Dishonorably Discharged for fraud, forgery of military documents, and all sorts of other UCMJ violations.

If someone makes serious claims, find someone who knows the deal.  Yeah, OK, some ribbons or something may be a little tough, but if someone claims something high speed low drag, there are 50 web sites that can verify someones SEAL, PJ, Ranger, SF status.  None of those quals are ever secret.  If someone comes in and makes the extra effort to doctor a DD214 or something.... well, chances are there are going to be other issues beyond just a couple ribbons in the stack. 

[PHall]

The military is actually a pretty small community. Usually takes no more then a half dozen phone calls to the "right" people and you have your answer.

[LGM30GMCC]

I heard a claim that a dude had spent 5 years in the army, and in that time made Sergeant and was a DI. This had my alarm bells ringing because in the USAF this would have been a 'No freaking way' situation. (At least in the modern USAF.)

So I poked around and called some pretty high-up (think it was an E-7 or E-8) sergeant whose number was on the Army recruiting site. Explained who I was and why I was calling and he explained a bit about how the Army worked. Told me 'Yeah it's possible'. I haven't really conversed with the guy much. As it was I was growling to our mutual friend who was his DCS because he was wearing his subdued metal army badges (including EIB) on his BBDUs with metal 2d Lt rank. (I was displeased with that situation.)

If I really meet him again I may poke a little bit more since he has my BS flags going off pretty hard.

But yeah, I agree that it can be difficult to verify some service in less common but not extremely rare branches. I could probably expose a fake missiler most likely by asking the right pointed questions, but a fake missile maintainer would be a lot harder. That being said I could recognize a modern Awards/Decs print off from vMPF, but if they were in the service, and somewhat computer savy they could likely fake that. If they were claiming current service that'd be REAL easy to verify though.

[flyboy53]

I am missing my AAM from my 214, but I have a copy of the orders for it.  My 214 was created about a week before my ETS and award of the AAM.  I can, however, provide all data needed for the awards I have.

Go on-line and google Standard Form 180. Fill it out completely and fax it to the National Personnel Records Center in St. Louis. Include your DD Form 214 and the orders showing the AAM. At the bottom of the form, write in the section "seeking correction of military records to reflect the AAM. If you are Army, you can do the same thing by faxing the request to the US Army Human Resources Command, A DD Form 215 will be generated to show the decoration and you will be required to attach it to the DD Form 214.

It's a common practice. I have two DD Form 215s from my last period of active duty due to missing ribbons and some administrative errors -- also because I, too, am very sensitive to forged or doctored DD Form 214s, I had the Air Force list the two badges I earned.

[J2H]

I made E-5 in 4 years.  As far as the orders... I KNOW I have awards which I was not given orders for (short tours and long tours) due to the length of deployment time... can't justify those now... I threw on my ribbon rack what I know I have and no one cared.

[bosshawk]

When I was still active in CAP:

two long-sleeved white aviator shirts
two short-sleeved white aviator shirts
numerous gray slacks
black low-quarters

three flight suits, nomex
one nomex flight jacket
one pair Army tanker boots
one pair Corcoran boots

one black A-2 leather jacket

one flight cap(worn once in 18 years)

one Sq baseball cap

flying gloves

one CAP baseball cap

four polo shirts, one with basic wings, one with senior wings and two with command pilot wings.

[NIN]

I am missing my AAM from my 214, but I have a copy of the orders for it.  My 214 was created about a week before my ETS and award of the AAM.  I can, however, provide all data needed for the awards I have.

Go on-line and google Standard Form 180. Fill it out completely and fax it to the National Personnel Records Center in St. Louis. Include your DD Form 214 and the orders showing the AAM. At the bottom of the form, write in the section "seeking correction of military records to reflect the AAM. If you are Army, you can do the same thing by faxing the request to the US Army Human Resources Command, A DD Form 215 will be generated to show the decoration and you will be required to attach it to the DD Form 214.

It's a common practice. I have two DD Form 215s from my last period of active duty due to missing ribbons and some administrative errors -- also because I, too, am very sensitive to forged or doctored DD Form 214s, I had the Air Force list the two badges I earned.

I have a DD215 that reflects the award of the Korean Defense Service Medal. I SF180'd for it, because the medal did not exist when I was on AD or in the Guard but it was a retroactive award. Supplied a copy of my PCS orders for both ends (I have *everything*) along with the 180 and it was a done deal.