Civilian Population Confusion with CAP Members Wear of Military Field Uniforms

[A.Member]

I think our huge wing patches do just fine for that. Not to mention when most civilian population (as you put it) would see us out and about town, we are rather close to a CAP vehicle, so the large CAP command patch should take care of that.

I don't see your issue with everything CAP does with uniforms. Is it because you were AD? If so, I still don't understand it, I was AD, and I think the uniforms are a necessary part of our organization. I know many other prior service feel the same way, so that shouldn't be it. So I am at a loss for what the problem could be. Please enlighten us, or just stop it.

I have nothing against CAP members wearing military type field uniforms.  On the other hand from a PAO marketing perceptive I would hope that we could have CIVIL AIR PATROL easily seen and displayed.  Right now with the safety vest worn it blocks anything that says we are CAP.  I do agree with you there's a wing patch, but that is on the side of uniform.  When you are looking at someone directly or they are approaching there's really no ID as to the organization affiliation.    The vests that Vanguard sells with the CIVIL AIR PATROL (name & command logo) on the bottom of the vest, are really expensive.  I don't want to see proposed fixes cost the membership a lot of money, thus the Emergency Services Patch on the headgear seems cost effective and is already authorized for wear on both BDU/Blue BDU's uniforms.

As far as the vehicles go, surely that is a very good identification BUT in my specific example given that started this thread, the ground team was well away from the vehicle.     

Now as far as everyone getting into only one organizational field type uniform, I think the marketing people under the entire branding concept planning would like to see that.   However, the realities of this organization, both historically and the current psyche of many members will likely prevent this
RM   

How the h#@% were you ever appointed as a PAO?!  Seriously.

[EMT-83]

Hey, don't SLAM him too hard. 

[biomed441]

" Oooooh my" - Professor Hubert Farnsworth

[SarDragon]

<cues the clock>

[fyrfitrmedic]

Hey, don't SLAM him too hard. 

I guess he got tired of being "picked on" so he changed his handle. No surprise - intestinal fortitude has never been his thing anyway, just sporadic use of capslock and overuse of the word "wannabe,"

"Whack-a-troll" anyone? 

[Maj. Joe Mora]

This reminds me of the disingenious lead-ins the local newscasts use when trying to create a news story. Usually something like; "such and such policy is in place, but "SOME" are against it", and they interview ONE yahoo. Hardly a controversy...

So RM  has an anecdotal story of one civilian; and he is somehow transformed into an entire "Civilian Population".

That, is trolling.

[tarheel gumby]

RM must have a serious self esteem issue, to continue to slam CAP and those of us that wear the Uniform. If he dosn't want to wear a uniform or look like the AF then the Boy Scouts could use him, and his tallents. I don's want to bash the man so I will say I am disapointed with the lack of loyalty to the organization. I am a proud "wannabe" I want to be the best CAP Officer that I can be. A professional uniformed image will help reduce confusion with other agencies, be proud of our heritage not ashamed of it.

[Major Carrales]

I may not agree with what you say, but I will defend, to the death, your right to say it.

Easy to say, but a pretty high standard to attain.

It's a repeat/paraphrase of Voltaire...Vincent Gardenia once repeated it on an episode of "All In the Family."  It is a noble idea...and a great concept.  However, tolerance does not mean you have to concede a point in a debate. 

Words are about meaning, the sentences and paragraphs that flow forth should not so "cheaply" by extolled.  We have to stand by our words.  Thus, when a person comes into a forum such as this with a contrary point and is met with vitriol...sometimes it is best wise to "sing small" and be less abrasive to accomplish the necessary input of ideas.

Take Radioman and BFlynn, I am sure...most sure in any case in my mind...that their posts have closed more minds than opened.  Even I have "winced" a few times at what is written by them here.  That is when I go see what is being revised at Memory Alpha, the Start Trek Wiki, or at my TRAINSTATION game on facebook.  Then I come back...refreshed and realize that what is posted at CAPTALK is seen by some in power but, like all conversations of the like after squadron meetings and pubs unknown...there is not "teeth to the tiger" and it matters as much as a cat coughing up a hairball on the west coast. 

ALL YOU BASE ARE BELONG TO US!!!!

[Critical AOA]

Interesting debate.  My thoughts are that an organization such as CAP does need a uniform.  But what uniform?

As to truly finding something totally distinctive for a uniform that still retains a utilitarian function and professional look, well that would be difficult. As others have mentioned, which ever direction we take we will be mistaken for another organization by someone who lacks the knowledge.  It isn't that they are stupid, they just don't know.

Personally, if a military type field uniform is required, I favor a solid color fatigue / BDU for ground personnel over camouflage. What has always puzzled me is why camouflage?  Who are we trying to hide from? 

For flight crews either the green or blue flight suit or the blue golf shirt works for me.

I am also unsure what purpose the AF blues have in an organization that rarely needs to wear them in the performance of our normal missions.  Currently the only uniforms I own are the blue golf shirt, the white aviator shirt and a flight suit.  I have only worn the white shirt once.   

Another idea would be wearing the blue golf shirt with CAP logo along with some sort of cargo / BDU pants of a solid color such as khaki (my preference over gray) along with mission appropriate footgear.  In the hot summer months, khaki shorts could be allowed.   In the cooler months, a long sleeved version of the golf shirt could be authorized.

I do understand why some myself included would prefer changes to the uniform policy but let us refrain from name calling directed at those who like to wear the uniform.  Also to those who prefer wearing the AF uniform with all of its trimmings, there is no need to demean or question the dedication or professionalism of those who would prefer to see it go away.

In the meantime or barring any change, we should all try our best to correctly and proudly wear the uniforms that are currently approved.  If unable to do so then we need to look for another organization to dedicate our efforts to.  There are plenty in need of volunteers. 

[Extremepredjudice]

I am also unsure what purpose the AF blues have in an organization that rarely needs to wear them in the performance of our normal missions

See: cadet programs

[West MI-CAP-Ret]

Personally, I don't think civilians mean anything by their remarks.  Most CAP members I know here in west Michigan strive to wear their uniforms with pride, and by doing so, if they are confused as members of the armed forces, this should be a compliment!  It means they are doing something right.

What do you think?

This proves anything can be spinned to support someones agenda. It is a common mistaken, and if somebody doesn't know what we are, they see the camo uniform and think military. Being the auxillary of the USAF, this should be expected, since we wear the USAF uniform and are held, somewhat, to USAF standards.

[Extremepredjudice]

Personally, I don't think civilians mean anything by their remarks.  Most CAP members I know here in west Michigan strive to wear their uniforms with pride, and by doing so, if they are confused as members of the armed forces, this should be a compliment!  It means they are doing something right.

What do you think?

This proves anything can be spinned to support someones agenda. It is a common mistaken, and if somebody doesn't know what we are, they see the camo uniform and think military. Being the auxillary of the USAF, this should be expected, since we wear the USAF uniform and are held, somewhat, to USAF standards.

Yeah RM is a troll.

[Sgt. Annie]

Why don't we just run a whole bunch of Nationwide CAP commercials so people actually hear and see what we are? And while yes it isn't free I'm sure some Networks would be willing to help out "The All Volunteer Auxiliary of The United States Airforce" And while we're at it how about more of a presence on Social Networking sites like facebook and more videos up on youtube?

[AngelWings]

Why don't we just run a whole bunch of Nationwide CAP commercials so people actually hear and see what we are? And while yes it isn't free I'm sure some Networks would be willing to help out "The All Volunteer Auxiliary of The United States Airforce" And while we're at it how about more of a presence on Social Networking sites like facebook and more videos up on youtube?

It makes too much sense. CAP, the miltary, and all affiliated organizations strive to not make sense. And if you look at the fiascos already discussed here, you'll see a lot of things are "Don't ask, the answer has to be no!". We fret too much over things and talk ourselves out of otherwise common sense things. Or atleast on this forum. *Que public quartering of me for saying that*

[Extremepredjudice]

Why don't we just run a whole bunch of Nationwide CAP commercials so people actually hear and see what we are? And while yes it isn't free I'm sure some Networks would be willing to help out "The All Volunteer Auxiliary of The United States Airforce" And while we're at it how about more of a presence on Social Networking sites like facebook and more videos up on youtube?

They cost a butt load of cash. More than CAP could spend.

Though more videos on youtube would definitely be a good idea. Why don't you make one?

[rugger1869]

Why don't we just run a whole bunch of Nationwide CAP commercials so people actually hear and see what we are? And while yes it isn't free I'm sure some Networks would be willing to help out "The All Volunteer Auxiliary of The United States Airforce" And while we're at it how about more of a presence on Social Networking sites like facebook and more videos up on youtube?

They cost a butt load of cash. More than CAP could spend.

Though more videos on youtube would definitely be a good idea. Why don't you make one?

Outside of production costs, wouldn't the spots be free? I'm sure they'd be considered a public service announcement and there's grant money from the Ad Council available.

[Fubar]

Outside of production costs, wouldn't the spots be free? I'm sure they'd be considered a public service announcement and there's grant money from the Ad Council available.

We should probably advertise ourselves to more people than just insomniacs. That's pretty much the only time they run PSAs these days.

[Phil Hirons, Jr.]

Outside of production costs, wouldn't the spots be free? I'm sure they'd be considered a public service announcement and there's grant money from the Ad Council available.

We should probably advertise ourselves to more people than just insomniacs. That's pretty much the only time they run PSAs these days.

Wouldn't insomniacs be good to cover the night operational period in extended ops? 

[Shawn W.]

I think what happens with many civilians is that they see the uniform BUT don't really pay attention to any distinctive markings on the uniform.

True Story.

[tonyairplane]

Some time ago, I was at JFK showing some cadets the inside of an Airbus, they were taking turns sitting in the cockpit seats.  I was standing in just outside of the cockpit.  I was wearing the white shirt/gray epaulets uniform.  One of the pursers came up to me and handed me the catering order for the next flight.  They thought that I was with the food service company!