Drug Testing

Eclipse · May 27, 2012, 07:24:42 PM

Quote from: BillB on May 27, 2012, 07:20:35 PM
Most of the posts apply to illegal drugs. But what about legal percriptions that would show up on a drug test? How would that be handeled compared to an illegal substance that would have the same drug tests results?

Show your prescription, move on.

lordmonar · May 28, 2012, 12:56:50 AM

three pages.....really guys?

Eclipse · May 28, 2012, 01:28:11 AM

Quote from: lordmonar on May 28, 2012, 12:56:50 AM
three pages.....really guys?

It's a holiday weekend and I'm sitting here hand-holding a Google Apps migration (13000 messages in the IN Box, really?),
so all I have is "too much free time" and open tabs.

At least I can do it from home...

SarDragon · May 29, 2012, 07:08:28 AM

Quote from: Eclipse on May 27, 2012, 07:24:42 PM
Quote from: BillB on May 27, 2012, 07:20:35 PM
Most of the posts apply to illegal drugs. But what about legal percriptions that would show up on a drug test? How would that be handeled compared to an illegal substance that would have the same drug tests results?

Show your prescription, move on.

Easy for you to say. BTDT. Went badly. Ended up on what ended up being a 12 month whiz quiz program in the Navy.

BrannG · May 29, 2012, 03:18:51 PM

Quote from: NateF on May 23, 2012, 06:21:36 PM
It occurred to me recently that there is no incentive whatsoever for members that are using drugs to stop using them. It's basic economics, giving people no incentives effectively lowers the cost of doing drugs of any kind. Likewise, since CAP doesn't screen for drugs in it's members there is virtually no way to get caught, at least short of smoking crack in front of your commander. (that's a purposeful exaggeration, but not as exaggerated as might think)

Let us remember also that senior members are driving cadets all over the place and pilot senior members are flying them, but it strikes me as kind of risky, both for CAP assets and lives.

I envision a wing level branch responsible for proper administration and documenting of tests. The home kits are extremely accurate these days and really not very expensive. It just seems to me that as long as you weren't a drug king pin before you join CAP, there is just no way to know. I would think the best course of action would be to suspend flying and driving privileges for members testing positive for whatever with reinstatement only if they do some rehab. If they blow it a second time, or if they refuse to get help for their drugs habit, than see you later, we don't need that rabble bombing around with a van full of cadets hopped up on methamphetamine.

Thoughts on this?

hmm. It is a solid thought, yes. I remember when I was 16 and did a paper-route kind of thing for the local paper here, and the "supervising adults" actually GAVE the kids weed!! Is it possible - yes. Is it likely in our line of service - not so much. Is it worth a price over 2 million to administer? Idk. Is it worth it to the cadets - YES.

We do work with "young adults" and we should be ready to bear that responsibility. I can't say it is budgetable in our fiscal year but if the funds were there - I would say I won't mind it one bit. My daughter is joining CAP, so yes, her safety is very important to me

manfredvonrichthofen · May 29, 2012, 03:36:51 PM

This year, I would have to say that it is not plausible. But possibly next year it would be. We would just need to request the extra funding for congress. I am willing to bet my CAP paycheck that if we informed congress of our intent and reasoning they would jump at the chance. If for no other reason than the cadets.

Spaceman3750 · May 29, 2012, 03:40:46 PM

If my full-time public sector day job doesn't drug test me, why on earth should my volunteer "side gig"? I understand the sentiment, but again I have yet to see anyone show that this is actually a problem. And as far as being good for the cadets, there are better ways to get warm fuzzies that don't involve spending $2M in a year which will be very tight for everyone (in the NEC slides they're talking about cutting training funds, new equipment, cadet o-flights, etc).

Nathan · May 30, 2012, 10:11:22 AM

I could just bring up the fact that the more popular drugs to test for, such as weed, don't actually provide as much of a scare as the legal ones, like alcohol. That's not even opinion. That's just science.

If you want to spend money toward something that can actually protect the cadets and is far more likely to get them hurt than weed or ecstasy, you should probably be advocating a "zero tolerance policy" when it comes to alcohol and ban any member who seems to be breaking it.

And I dare for you to argue with me that weed deserves more attention than alcohol when it comes to the safety of the cadets.

AngelWings · May 30, 2012, 02:40:50 PM

Quote from: Nathan on May 30, 2012, 10:11:22 AM
I could just bring up the fact that the more popular drugs to test for, such as weed, don't actually provide as much of a scare as the legal ones, like alcohol. That's not even opinion. That's just science.

If you want to spend money toward something that can actually protect the cadets and is far more likely to get them hurt than weed or ecstasy, you should probably be advocating a "zero tolerance policy" when it comes to alcohol and ban any member who seems to be breaking it.

And I dare for you to argue with me that weed deserves more attention than alcohol when it comes to the safety of the cadets.

A cadet who smokes weed is going to be a very misfitting and stupid looking cadet. Drug testing isn't 100% about safety, it is about weeding out the tools who are stupid enough to smoke and are breaking laws.

Trying to say alcohol is more important (which I honestly agree with) is more important than weed does not look good at all. It is either catch all drugs and alcohol or not. I would stop the whole weed isn't as bad arguement, it makes you (which I hope to god and don't think you are due to your great attitude on this forum) look like a smoker yourself.

lordmonar · May 30, 2012, 03:10:03 PM

Bottom line.......I just don't see a need for it.

I would rather spend the money on O-rides and NCSA or new radios.
I certainly don't have the time to adminster, yet another, program that will only increase work load and not acheive it's stated goals.

The USAF has been doing random drug testing for decades.....and it still has not STOPPED illegal drug use.

So......Someone.....anyone.....please show me where we have a "problem" with illegal drug use in CAP.....and I will be all over this....until then.

manfredvonrichthofen · May 30, 2012, 05:06:20 PM

Stopping a problem is t all it's about. Ore often than not preventing a problem is better than trying to stop one, and is more effective.

Is safety one of those things to stop an accident, or to prevent one? Do you use ORM only when you are about to get hurt, or do you use it the whole time, beginning to end, to prevent anyone from getting into a situation where they could get hurt?

It seems to me, that since we don't have a rampant drug issue amongst our ranks, it is the perfect time to start the good hard prevention. DDR as it is can only go so far.

I don't know about you, but I would rather get rid of someone BEFORE they eat another man's face

I know, that is really far fetched, but I digress, drugs are drugs, any substance that can alter a persons mental status needs not be in CAP. And the best way to keep it out is to initiate a zero tolerance policy, and you can't initiate a zero tolerance policy without testing against it.

Eclipse · May 30, 2012, 05:27:59 PM

Quote from: manfredvonrichthofen on May 30, 2012, 05:06:20 PMI know, that is really far fetched, but I digress, drugs are drugs, any substance that can alter a persons mental status needs not be in CAP. And the best way to keep it out is to initiate a zero tolerance policy, and you can't initiate a zero tolerance policy without testing against it.

Today...you have made a powerful enemy...

The fight shall not end until only one survives!

manfredvonrichthofen · May 30, 2012, 05:30:12 PM

Oh c'mon, you know I wasn't talking about caffein. You can't eat a loaf of bread without caffein.

RogueLeader · May 30, 2012, 05:43:44 PM

Sorry. Caffeine is a drug that alters the mind, and I just love my mountain dew.

manfredvonrichthofen · May 30, 2012, 06:04:15 PM

Ok, let me rephrase...

The improper use of any controlled substance has no place in CAP, and should be tested against and a zero tolerance policy should be implemented.

RogueLeader · May 30, 2012, 06:09:42 PM

Quote from: manfredvonrichthofen on May 30, 2012, 06:04:15 PM
Ok, let me rephrase...

The improper use of any controlled substance has no place in CAP, and should be tested against and a zero tolerance policy should be implemented.

Ok. How are we going to be paying for it?

manfredvonrichthofen · May 30, 2012, 06:19:27 PM

Quote from: RogueLeader on May 30, 2012, 06:09:42 PM
Quote from: manfredvonrichthofen on May 30, 2012, 06:04:15 PM
Ok, let me rephrase...

The improper use of any controlled substance has no place in CAP, and should be tested against and a zero tolerance policy should be implemented.

Ok. How are we going to be paying for it?

Refer to my Post On the last page. But I guess I will say it again...

This year I understand that budgeting wouldn't allow it. However next year it is plausible. When budgeting is raised with congress, explain to them that we want to have drug testing coming into regulation, but budgeting is keeping us from doing so. I bet they jump on the idea of giving us more funding to implement drug testing.

Flying Pig · May 30, 2012, 06:37:11 PM

And I bet you they wouldnt. Cops and Firefighters dont even have mandatory drug testing. CAP does have a zero tolerance policy on illegal drug use. Can someone get a hold of NHQ and find out how many 2Bs have been initiated because of drug abuse? Even with that, if your using illegal or abusing legal drugs, your going to have other issues that I, as a Sq CC can boot you for. In my 20yrs in CAP Ive never seen it be an issue with any members.

bosshawk · May 30, 2012, 07:38:54 PM

I'll second what Rob says and add that, IMHO, if CAWG doesn't have a drug problem, it isn't likely that any other state has one. The drug scene in CA is a step beyond an epidemic.

Suggest that you guys turn your attention to the beret issue.

lordmonar · May 30, 2012, 07:47:10 PM

Quote from: manfredvonrichthofen on May 30, 2012, 06:04:15 PM
Ok, let me rephrase...

The improper use of any controlled substance has no place in CAP, and should be tested against and a zero tolerance policy should be implemented.

Okay.....are you going to pay for it? How many O-rides do you want to cut? Which NCSA? How many missions do we scale back?

That's the bottom line. Even if we a simple 10% survey of our members each year.....that 6000 members at $70+ a pop that $420,000 per year!

Then there is the extra costs involved when that small but significan number of people pop positive then fight it!

Not to mention that somewhere in our spare time we are going to have to manage this program.