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Drug Testing

Started by NateF, May 23, 2012, 06:21:36 PM

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Eclipse

Quote from: Nathan on June 02, 2012, 12:17:24 AMThis is why your personal experience is a terrible way of trying to figure out a view of a national situation. MY personal experience working in hospitals and with people making a lot more money than both of us combined in the medical field tells a completely different story, that even physicians tend to smoke marijuana every now and then. Apparently, it's a fairly popular way to relax during medical school since it not only works immediately, but in small doses is even evidenced to improve concentration.

You're going to seriously try and make the argument that just because Dr's use, it must be "OK"?

"That Others May Zoom"

NCRblues

Quote from: Nathan on June 02, 2012, 12:17:24 AM
we simply have a regulation that says that members will not consume alcohol during CAP activities.


Nope, wrong.

CAPR 52-16 says

"Senior members should exercise discretion when drinking alcoholic beverages or using tobacco products at CAP activities when cadets are present. Seniors should avoid drinking alcohol or using tobacco when they are directly working with cadets or when they are in a confined space with cadets. Additionally, seniors who are not working with cadets should avoid excessive alcohol consumption when they can reasonably expect to encounter cadets thereafter."
In god we trust, all others we run through NCIC

Nathan

Quote from: Littleguy on June 02, 2012, 12:31:20 AM
You just don't get it Nathan. Your statistics can prove anything you'd like them to, but the problem is that they do not match up with the real world.

They match up a lot better than your personal experience does. And again, I think you're making the assumption that I haven't had to deal with similar issues as you, which would be incorrect. I'm not going to have a "who has dealt with a worst drug-related tragedy" game with you, but I'm just telling you here that I have the necessary background in that area to negate any problems with "real world experience."

Quote from: EclipseYou're going to seriously try and make the argument that just because Dr's use, it must be "OK"?

Absolutely not. Read closer. I was responding to his assertion that nobody successful does drugs, which is wrong. Lots of successful people (including our President, whether you like him or not) have used drugs in the past, and many successful people still do. It's ridiculous to assume that their status as drug users completely negates their contribution to the drug debate or society as a whole.

Quote from: NCRbluesNope, wrong.

CAPR 52-16 says

"Senior members should exercise discretion when drinking alcoholic beverages or using tobacco products at CAP activities when cadets are present. Seniors should avoid drinking alcohol or using tobacco when they are directly working with cadets or when they are in a confined space with cadets. Additionally, seniors who are not working with cadets should avoid excessive alcohol consumption when they can reasonably expect to encounter cadets thereafter."

Fair enough. I didn't have it immediately available (PDF reader isn't launching for some reason). Regardless, it doesn't change the point of the argument. In fact, it actually strengthens my argument. Despite being more intoxicating, addictive, and dangerous than many of the substances we rail against during DDR, we allow it during CAP activities. We have no problem with it because it's legal, but we have a problem with other drugs from a "moral" point of view, because they aren't.

Thanks.  :)

And Eclipse, the reason I didn't address your other post was because you said absolutely nothing that hasn't been addressed. There are numerous legal and even unregulated substances that fit the description of what you associate with marijuana.

But as you said, the moral issue is within the fact that they are breaking the law, and my point is that's where it needs to stay. Otherwise, we're basically teaching people that morality = legality, which is hardly the best character development lesson of the day, don't you think? I'm not advocating for them to break the law because it isn't CONNECTED to morality, but it isn't a simple equivalence, despite the structure of the DDR program.
Nathan Scalia

The post beneath this one is a lie.

Eclipse

Quote from: Nathan on June 02, 2012, 01:50:32 AMIt's ridiculous to assume that their status as drug users completely negates their contribution to the drug debate or society as a whole.

Not only is it not ridiculous, it is actually part of the core of the argument. 

Any medical professional who uses illegal substances is literally not fit to engage in the conversation, if for no other reason then
they have proven they cannot make good decisions for themselves, let alone others.  Period.
Pick the grounds, physical, moral, spiritual, legal.  Period.

And you're also leaving out the fact that medical professionals are some of the highest abusers of prescription medications, in large part because of their proximity and easy access.  They literally know better, yet make poor choices anyway.

http://www.southparkstudios.com/clips/154822/college-know-it-all-hippies

"That Others May Zoom"

AngelWings

Cool. You win. I am done arguing with you.

Nathan

Eclipse, when you say that people who use marijuana can't argue about whether marijuana is bad because marijuana is bad, then that is a specific type of logical fallacy. I'm assuming you know which one.
Nathan Scalia

The post beneath this one is a lie.

Nathan

Quote from: Littleguy on June 02, 2012, 02:05:47 AM
Cool. You win. I am done arguing with you.

That's probably for the best. When someone actually tries to argue that we should change the evidence to reflect what YOU believe about the way the world seems to be, instead of saying that you should change your beliefs to match the evidence, then that's probably a sign you don't really have anything more to contribute.
Nathan Scalia

The post beneath this one is a lie.

The CyBorg is destroyed

Whatever one's feelings are about medical marijuana, using it now and then to relax, decriminalising it or going to a coffee shop in Amsterdam is really not germane to the discussion here.  I know people who are passionately on one side or the other of the issue.

The fact is that under Federal law it is illegal.  That makes it off-limits for us in CAP.  Alcohol is legal, but there are specific regulations as to when it is allowed in CAP.  Tobacco is legal, but you'll not find a lot of places in CAP (since we usually meet on military installations, National Guard armouries, police/fire departments, civil airports, churches, schools or other public buildings) where it's OK to light up.

If you're operating a CAP aircraft or CAP vehicle, have a mishap, and a drug test shows any kind of illegal drug in your system, my guess is that you'll have problems.
Exiled from GLR-MI-011

Nathan

I know this is a bump from the past, but I try to be a fair debater, and felt the need to point out that one of my earlier assumptions, while not proven wrong, hasn't been supported as I thought it would be.

They ran tests on the Homeless Hannibal Lecter guy who ate another man's face in Miami a while ago, and didn't find "bath salts" (a synthetic hallucinogen) in his body, and only found marijuana. Which I think is interesting. I still highly, highly doubt that marijuana was responsible for his behavior, but that's all they found.

http://news.yahoo.com/miami-face-eating-attacker-had-marijuana-body-215322998.html

Just so you guys can never accuse me of cherry-picking the evidence.  ;)
Nathan Scalia

The post beneath this one is a lie.