Drug Testing

[NateF]

It occurred to me recently that there is no incentive whatsoever for members that are using drugs to stop using them. It's basic economics, giving people no incentives effectively lowers the cost of doing drugs of any kind. Likewise, since CAP doesn't screen for drugs in it's members there is virtually no way to get caught, at least short of smoking crack in front of your commander. (that's a purposeful exaggeration, but not as exaggerated as might think)

Let us remember also that senior members are driving cadets all over the place and pilot senior members are flying them, but it strikes me as kind of risky, both for CAP assets and lives.

I envision a wing level branch responsible for proper administration and documenting of tests. The home kits are extremely accurate these days and really not very expensive. It just seems to me that as long as you weren't a drug king pin before you join CAP, there is just no way to know. I would think the best course of action would be to suspend flying and driving privileges for members testing positive for whatever with reinstatement only if they do some rehab. If they blow it a second time, or if they refuse to get help for their drugs habit, than see you later, we don't need that rabble bombing around with a van full of cadets hopped up on methamphetamine.

Thoughts on this?

[medicmike]

No problem with that here.  We have post injury, post accident, and random testing where I work and I am clean so it works for me.

[Spaceman3750]

If this were actually a documented problem I would agree, but there have been no incidents that I personally have seen (my scope is limited, so YMMV) that have been because of a member using illegal drugs. Therefore, I think this is a solution looking for a problem.

[Eclipse]

There already civil and criminal laws, as well as CAP regs, which prohibit driving or flying while intoxicated.

That's plenty.

[lordmonar]

You have NO IDEAL what a PITA you are suggesting.

1) How do you randomly test people?
2) How do you collect/control the samples?
3) What do you do if someone tests positive.....any manditory reporters out there?
4) Where do we get the money to pay for all this?
5) What is the appeal process for someone tests positive?
6) Who pays for the "defense" of someone who tests positive for a perscription drug, or OTC suplement that produces false positives?

Do we really have a problem with members being high during CAP activities? 
What do we do in those places where drugs a legal (or simi-legal) like CA, NV, etc?

[Eeyore]

At approximately $48 per test x 60,000 members = $2,880,000

That is a huge line item, even if we only randomly tested a quarter of the membership each year, $720,000 is a lot of encampment scholarships.

I really think that this is a solution looking for a problem.

[Persona non grata]

I am for drug screeining......no money in CAP to accomplish this!  We would no doubt loose some mmebers if we did.

[EMT-83]

From a medical / legal point of view, you do not want to open this can of worms.

[AngelWings]

I think what should be done is more of an observation process where the idea of wingmen comes into play. For example, if someone appears high and smells like weed, than I think as wingmen we should report them and they should be promptly reprimanded. Or if someones breath always smells like alcohol. This way we can test individuals. I'd even say make them pay for the test, and if they test negative, reimburse them.

Using my logic, we shouldn't have much of a problem with drugs. CAP attracts a much different caliber of person than a drug user. I doubt most senior members would want to dedicate time to an organization that does provide counter drug operations if they do drugs. I'd worry more about cadets (I've known one drug user in the program, but he fell off the face of the earth when he realized he didn't fit in to our organization).

[bflynn]

It occurred to me recently that there is no incentive whatsoever for members that are using drugs to stop using them.
...
Thoughts on this?

You mean, other than existing legal laws that prohibit illegal drugs?

We don't need another solution looking for a problem.

[manfredvonrichthofen]

It occurred to me recently that there is no incentive whatsoever for members that are using drugs to stop using them.
...
Thoughts on this?

You mean, other than existing legal laws that prohibit illegal drugs?

We don't need another solution looking for a problem.

I have been seeing this phrase thrown around every chance that comes around. It seems to me like a good idea, except for the legal issues that are able to come up, but I don't really see them vein an issue especially since we are congressionally chartered. And I do agree that the drug issue is for the most part, a nonissue. But there is a chance that it could be an issue, especially since cadets are involved. And not having any sort of testing or method in place to keep drugs down in CAP, it could become a problem. Let's face it, DDR isn't much, and it's aimed at cadets, not seniors. There really is nothing keeping seniors clean, other than the law, and as you should be able to tell, the law doesn't dissuade quite a few adults.

Why would you be against being tested? Heck test me now.

[SarDragon]

I see the big issue here as benefits versus cost. Will spending that much money really have a measurable and significant benefit? How many "druggies" do we need to catch to call it worthwhile? Is catching a couple of occasional pot users who mind their own business going to have any real impact on CAP as a whole?

What about folks like me who are on prescription pain killers? I've already had one go-around with a positive whiz-quiz that wasn't properly handled.

[manfredvonrichthofen]

I see the big issue here as benefits versus cost. Will spending that much money really have a measurable and significant benefit? How many "druggies" do we need to catch to call it worthwhile? Is catching a couple of occasional pot users who mind their own business going to have any real impact on CAP as a whole?

What about folks like me who are on prescription pain killers? I've already had one go-around with a positive whiz-quiz that wasn't properly handled.

Because a pot user minding his own business has no place in Civil Air Patrol!
"meh, it's just pot" is an aweful mindset. I won't allow a pot user minding his own business around cadets, and you shouldn't either. It's not just his business if he is a pot user, and he is in CAP, it is everyone in CAP, it is all of our business. We are the USAF Auxiliary, we have higher standards than that, and they should be upheld, and if you use illegal drugs, you should not be in CAP.

One hot pop on a test, and mandatory one year suspension, and you must prove that you have sought treatment, and your evaluator/rehab counselor must sign off on a successful rehab treatment. Pop hot again, and gone for good. Or my personal preference, pop hot, and you are gone.

[Major Lord]

There is no incentive to stop using illegal drugs? How about jail, ruination, divorce, illness, death, brain damage, and causing many of the aforementioned to innocent victims? If these are not enough for a person, then I suggest they are total idiots. I also see telling new members that they may be chosen "at random" ( And there is no such thing as "random") to pee in a cup at the whim of some anti-drug political officer as being a major deal-killer in recruitment of new members. ( Although in CAWG, many members might enjoy it and post the videos to Youtube) A very basic sort of drug screening test occurs in the pre-screening of members having a fingerprint check by the department of Justice. If they brought their drug habit with them to CAP, its likely that it was a problem for them before. Should we disqualify non-drinking alcoholics from membership? CAP is the least qualified agency to administer a program like this, since it generally has difficulties in locating its gluteous muscles using the double manual technique. Foggidaboutit.

Major Lord

[Eclipse]

From a Devil's Advocate perspective, who, on earth, would want to be involved with that kind of thing as a CAP member?

[Phil Hirons, Jr.]

<SARCASM>
I would guess it would fall to the Health Services Officer.

We can give you Captain's bars but...........
</SARCASM>

[Walkman]

I tend to agree with others that the kind of person that volunteers in CAP as a SM is not the kind of person who would abuse illegal drugs. On the cadet side of things, I could see a situation where a cadet falls into drug use through the usual ways (peer pressure, etc).

I think the solution is true espirit de corps. If we really know each other in our unit, and we really care and pay attention, we'll know quickly if someone is having trouble. Then, as a squadron mate, we can help support and help them as best we can. A really good friend can be a huge advantage.

[Flying Pig]

I think your going to find this with prospective members more so than active members.  Ive walked two people out who were perspective members for exhibiting symptoms of being under the influence.  I am a court recognized DRE (Drug Recognition Expert). Although most units probably dont have that at their disposal.  Neither one of the people challenged me or ever came back.
There are avenues outside of CAP to deal with this, like calling the po-po. Im hoping its not a problem anywhere.  If someone comes into your unit and you think they are displaying these symptoms, then your SQ CC needs to have the intestinal fortitude to man-up (or woman-up) and address it with the member face to face.  There will usually be other outward symptoms and lifestyle changes that will support your observations.  But again if I have issues with your behavior, I can pretty much suspend anything you have as the SQCC, whether it be flying, driving, dealing with cadets or even showing up to meetings until I believe my concerns have been dealt with.  Just be professional, document your issues, and bring your command staff on board with any decisions or meetings.

But I tend to agree with the Walkman.  If its a member, who makes the decision to use drugs, hipefully they are connected and they have friends in CAP also and it will be someone we can salvage vs just changing the locks and deleting their numbers from our cell phones.  Howeever, that doesnt mean we neglect the safety of the unit during their "intervention" process. 

[flyingscotsman]

If you see something illegal (dealing, actual use of an illegal substance, etc.), report it to the authorities. If you think a prospective CAP member is under the influence, politely suggest that this organization may not be good fit (I don't recall seeing anything requiring a squadron to accept just anyone who wants to join). If you think a fellow CAP member might be under the influence, don't let them engage in a risky activity (flying, etc.) and enlist some other members to help intervene. We have ways to deal with all of this.

I see how my current wing regime operates and I wouldn't want any of them having the authority to hand out drug tests. It's all well and good if it isn't abused for no reason, but retaliation runs rampant around here, and even if there is no drug use the accusation can still be the last straw for good members to drop out. The financial overhead of execution and enforcement, along with all the legal issues, are also big concerns.

I'm sure like all other organizations with significant participants there are isolated incidents of substance abuse, but are there a significant number of examples where the safeguards already in place did not work where a CAP-wide drug testing policy would have solved the underlying problem? I suspect, like others on this discussion topic, that this is a solution in search of a problem.

[The CyBorg is destroyed]

I have no use for those who use illegal drugs.  Smoking a joint may not be as dangerous as shooting smack or doing crystal meth, but they're all against the law and against CAP regulations.

For those who choose to drink, and are of legal age, I have no problem with it as long as they don't become idiots behind the wheel of a motor vehicle, become violent, etc.  I used to drink but quit over a decade ago (personal choice).

However, I agree with all the others on here who have said that drug testing could be a can of worms that we don't want to open (more like snakes, actually).

I take prescribed medication.  I have it listed on my Form 60; names, dosages, etc.

Beyond that, what medication I take is between my doctor and myself.