So, can anyone answer why no military ribbons on CAP distinctive uniforms?

[bflynn]

I'm curious - I'm proud of what I did and I'd like to share it through the wear of ribbons.  But everyone just states that it's not allowed on corporate uniforms without giving a reason.

Ok, I get that.  It hurts a little because it's like you don't care, but I get it.

But the question is - Why?

[Майор Хаткевич]

You say you were in the Military. Did your leaders always explain why things weren't allowed?

The answer is just that. Military awards are not allowed on Non-AF uniforms. Why? No one bothered to tell us.

[bflynn]

No, they didn't explain things.  I don't see why that's relevant.

I don't understand and I'd feel better about being a volunteer if I did. 

[coudano]

in my opinion we shouldn't wear military ribbons on the CAP uniform (including the USAF style one) at all (and i don't)

however, the rules (one way or the other) should be consistent between both.
i shouldn't need separate ribbon rack for my white shirt and my blue shirt.

[billford1]

If a SM is only eligible for the aviator shirt I don't know why anyone should object if he wears his Military occupational badge. Is this really illegal in 39-1?  I only ask because I've seen people wear their Navy Dolphin Badge or something like it.

[PHall]

Because CAPM 39-1, The CAP Uniform Manual, says you can not wear military ribbons and/or badges on CAP Distinctive Uniforms.
(Ref: CAPM 39-1, Para 5-2 and 6-5.)

[bflynn]

Yes.

Why?

[RiverAux]

Because in order to get around the AF-mandated height-weight requirements for wear of AF-style uniforms we came up with our own distinctive version.  One of the ways they decided to keep the two uniform types separate was to only allow wear of military ribbons by those who meet the requirements to wear the AF-style uniform. 

Can I back that up with some reference?  Nope, no more than it is possible to back up explanations for most rules that have been around for the 10+ years for which national meeting minutes which offer explanations are available.

[Eclipse]

Can I back that up with some reference?  Nope, no more than it is possible to back up explanations for most rules that have been around for the 10+ years for which national meeting minutes which offer explanations are available.

And bearing in mind that previous to that, the corporate uniform consisted of the blazer nametag with no grade insignia epaulet sleeves, badges, or ribbons at all.

[Ed Bos]

Because the Air Force (and ostensibly the DoD) forbids it?

Ref AFI 36-2903, Para 1.4.9:

While in civilian attire. Do not mix or wear military unique uniform items with civilian clothes; for example, rank insignia, cap devices, badges, and other US or Air Force insignia, devices, buttons, etc.  Exception: Tie tacks and lapel pens are authorized when wearing business attire.

[bflynn]

Not to be argumentative, but why would an Air Force instruction apply to me?  I was never in the Air Force and I'm not now.  The Air Force doesn't control the CAP Distinctive Uniform, as far as they're concerned, it is civilian wear.  Nor does an AFI apply to a veteran who isn't in the military any more.

The Navy as a similar rule, but I'm also no longer in the Navy.  I wear my Navy ribbons and badges on my various veterans vests.  I've actually just added my CAP member ribbon to my rack on one of my vests.  So I wear mixed CAP and military ribbons on my civilian clothes now, just not CAP designated civilian clothes.  On the grey aviator shirt, my preference is to wear no ribbons or just not wear the uniform at all.

The only thing I've heard so far that makes any sense is that once upon a time someone decided they wanted CAP uniforms to be distinctive.

[davidsinn]

The Air Force doesn't control the CAP Distinctive Uniform,

They claim they do. Since they control the money we don't have a say in the matter.

What is with all the heartburn about wearing military decorations on CAP uniforms anyway? Do they affect your CAP duties in anyway? Does wearing them make you a better CAP member?

[Майор Хаткевич]

No, they didn't explain things.  I don't see why that's relevant.

Because as a para-military organization with roots in the Army Air Corps and US Air Force, CAP regulations are structured like the military. We tend to follow Air Force regulations, whether it makes sense to me or you? No one bothered to ask me when joining. Then there is the rocky uniform history of the last two decades, and NHQ statements that make it seem like the Air Force is VERY interested in how we look in our distinctive uniforms.

I don't understand and I'd feel better about being a volunteer if I did.

I can understand that. I even agree with it. The solution? Get "fit/clean shaven" for the Air Force uniform. For some, due to medical reasons it may not be an option. That leaves only two choices. Earn CAP decorations that will tell others what you can and have done in CAP, or quit over the issue.

[Pylon]

Because the Air Force Instruction which controls the organization of Civil Air Patrol intimates that the Air Force leadership has very-specifically-authorized control over our organization's uniforms, among other things.  They've been granted the authority and enough influence to tell us what we can and cannot do with our uniforms.

[James Shaw]

I choose to look at it like this and it has worked for me:

I joined CAP to do CAP stufff and to participate in the organization. I wear CAP stuff on that uniform because CAP authorizes it.

I do not wear my AD stuff from the Navy or the Army on the CAP uniform, because I am not in the Navy or the Army, I am in CAP. This is a personal choice. As a disclaimer I did wear it when I first joined to a conference and felt kind of silly wearing my AD stuff for the Navy and Army on my CAP mess dress, so I stopped

I don't look at another members AD stuff and make a judgement on their CAP work or worth. They are not in the CAP to do that stuff. They are in CAP to do CAP stuff. I don't hold anything against someone who does wear their AD stuff on the authorized CAP uniform in which they can. That is their personal choice if they choose to do that. I do not agree however that they "system" is at fault for not allowing veterans and ad members to wear their non CAP stuff on their current CAP uniforms (that are not authorized).

I have 6 specialty tracks I am rated in. I only wear the "badge" for the rating I am currently assigned in.

If you earn CAP recognition then wear all the recognition you want (on the appropriate) uniform. If you have 3 ribbons then wear the 3 ribbons, if you have 3 rows of ribbons then wear 3 rows.

I wear the golf shirt most of the time now, so it doesn't matter to me as much.

[bflynn]

The Air Force doesn't control the CAP Distinctive Uniform,

They claim they do.

I've never heard that before.  Someone at the Air Force approves the CAP Distinctive Uniform? 

Does wearing them make you a better CAP member?

It makes me a prouder, happier and more energenic volunteer.  We're a volunteer organization, remember?  We depend on the energy of our volunteers to make things happen.  I think it's a point quite often lost in the culture.

So in the meantime my grey shirt hangs in the closet and I'll just wear the golf shirt...

[Eclipse]

Not to be argumentative, but why would an Air Force instruction apply to me?  I was never in the Air Force and I'm not now. 

See AFI 10-2701, which regulates the USAF / CAP relationship, including their authority over our uniforms.

The Air Force doesn't control the CAP Distinctive Uniform, as far as they're concerned, it is civilian wear. 

Yes, it does, and this has plenty of precedent in recent history.  The corporate combinations may include pieces of clothing
which are commercially produced, but worn as a uniform, it is specifically not "civilian dress".

Nor does an AFI apply to a veteran who isn't in the military any more.

Correct, however it does apply to anyone carrying a CAP ID card who want to continue to do so.

[Eclipse]

I've actually just added my CAP member ribbon to my rack on one of my vests.  So I wear mixed CAP and military ribbons on my civilian clothes now

CAP ribbons are not authorized for wear on civilian clothing.

[Eclipse]

It makes me a prouder, happier and more energenic volunteer. 

How does wearing a decoration from an unrelated service make you a happier volunteer?  The fact that members are allowed to wear
military decoration at all is a nice-to-have from the USAF, and the compromise is that they are not worn on corporate combos.

We're a volunteer organization, remember?  We depend on the energy of our volunteers to make things happen.  I think it's a point quite often lost in the culture.

Another point "lost in culture" is that "volunteer" doesn't mean "do whatever you want".

[bflynn]

. For some, due to medical reasons it may not be an option. That leaves only two choices.

... quit over the issue.

Get fit or get out then....I've been trying, but it's not working.  If CAP only wants 180 lb clean cut guys, there goes 90% of my squadron....

Did you really just tell a volunteer to quit?  What would your CO think of that?