My friend is getting 2B-eed, help?

[JeffDG]

No one said that.

What we said is that the details of this are not anyone's buisness but the member affected and the people actually involved in it.

. . .

I can only say....let the process take place, if it is political.....do you really want to get invovled in the loosing side?  If you see anything unethical, against the regulations and/or law......you can always report it up the chain or to the IG.

I hear you. My friend has confided in me and has asked for my help. I feel that my integrity calls me to stand by a friend and fellow CAP member. He deserves to be able to defend himself with an adviser if he wants and I as his adviser should NOT have to worry in any way shape or form about reprisals against myself simply because I stood up to challenge the charges against a fellow CAP member. I don't want trouble, but if I have to choose between doing the right thing for a fellow squadron member and having a long CAP career, well...

So, have you actually taken the advice provided here and read the reg?

The option for a member to be represented is provided for therein.

The procedure for appealing a 2B is clearly defined.  If it is an inappropriate termination, then follow those procedures and appeal.  Should that appeal be unsuccessful, the member has the option of an appeal to the MARB.  Read the regs and follow them. 

[arthurfreidheim]

Guys -

Thanks for the advice even if it isn't what I had been hoping for. I am a bit stressed out by the whole thing and am going to stop reading here. I've got a packet of 2B charges to read through here and it isn't the way I ever wanted to see my time in CAP go. This is sort of a huge betrayal, sort of like I can no longer trust people I have been friends with for five years. Not fun.

Again thanks for the advice.

[arthurfreidheim]

JeffDG - I did, thanks.

[Private Investigator]

I seem to be hearing that somehow these proceedings need to be kept confidential by - of all people - the person being charged. What if he wants a public hearing? I see nothing in the regs that indicate that there is an expectation on CAP's part that the charged person has to "keep quiet". Seems very unfair.

No one said that.

What we said is that the details of this are not anyone's buisness but the member affected and the people actually involved in it.

That is basic leadership.  Lt Snuff is late to work....you talk to him behind closed doors.  You don't broadcast it to the entire squadron that Lt Snuff was late and that he is going to get remedial training and probation. 

Now....if your friend wants to tell you what is going on....that is his decision.  He is completely free to do so.
However, your squadron commander and his staff should be keeping all this to themselves.  At the most they should have/could have announced that SM XXXXX is suspended until further notice.......this is important for general members to know....so they don't allow him to particpate in CAP activities or give him CAP assets.

I trust CAP.....to make things right if they need to.  I have seen individuals ignore what CAP wants them to do, ignores their duties as leader adn ignores what CAP wants them to do.  These can be very messy.  But as Eclipse says.....The only one who can supply you information is your freind.  If he is not giveing it out.....welll you can draw your own conclusions.

Yes....people get screwed.
But more often people bad people need to get screwed.

In my experince CAP ususually does the right thing.....sometimes by accident.....but there you go.

As a Squadron Commander.....I have to defend my fellow squadron commander......barring any evidence that they have no case, violated due process, or the punishment does not fit the crime.....I have to assume that they have cause.  If not.....well there's the appeal process and the MARB.

Both have successfully got demotions, terminations, and flying suspentions over turned.

I can only say....let the process take place, if it is political.....do you really want to get invovled in the loosing side?  If you see anything unethical, against the regulations and/or law......you can always report it up the chain or to the IG.

+1 I concur

[Private Investigator]

Guys -

Thanks for the advice even if it isn't what I had been hoping for. I am a bit stressed out by the whole thing and am going to stop reading here. I've got a packet of 2B charges to read through here and it isn't the way I ever wanted to see my time in CAP go. This is sort of a huge betrayal, sort of like I can no longer trust people I have been friends with for five years. Not fun.

Again thanks for the advice.

It is part of life. Sometimes in CAP you have to dealt with things that you never expect. The member who gets killed in a senseless traffic accident, the nice guy who has terminal cancer, a hunting accident, the Senior Member couple who got divorced. Will a pizza party will ever be the same.

Its all part of the circle of life.

[Extremepredjudice]

I seem to be hearing that somehow these proceedings need to be kept confidential by - of all people - the person being charged. What if he wants a public hearing? I see nothing in the regs that indicate that there is an expectation on CAP's part that the charged person has to "keep quiet". Seems very unfair.

Why not have judge judy preside?

[RogueLeader]

I seem to be hearing that somehow these proceedings need to be kept confidential by - of all people - the person being charged. What if he wants a public hearing? I see nothing in the regs that indicate that there is an expectation on CAP's part that the charged person has to "keep quiet". Seems very unfair.

Why not have judge judy preside?

I'd rather have Judge Millian from people's court.

[Eclipse]

I'd rather have Judge Millian from people's court.

The hottest judge on TV!

[SarDragon]

Tick-tock. Tick-tock. Tick-tock.

[Extremepredjudice]

Tick-tock. Tick-tock. Tick-tock.

He said he wasn't coming back.  :angel:

[SarDragon]

And there have been 5+ posts since his last one with little additional relevance, hence my hint.

[Extremepredjudice]

And there have been 5+ posts since his last one with little additional relevance, hence my hint.

But sir, we have so much fun?

[arthurfreidheim]

Don't lock the thread, I will probably have more to write in a few days.

[Eclipse]

About what? 

You can't release any detail of this without violating CAP regulations, and further, you're not directly involved.

There's is no "light of day" aspect to these discussions because they can't be discussed to any meaningful conclusion without the
totality of the facts that will never be available in a public forum, nor should they be.

Leave the Sonata as is and move on.

[lordmonar]

About what? 

You can't release any detail of this without violating CAP regulations, and further, you're not directly involved.

There's is no "light of day" aspect to these discussions because they can't be discussed to any meaningful conclusion without the
totality of the facts that will never be available in a public forum, nor should they be.

Leave the Sonata as is and move on.

Yes he can....he is not in the IG or command chain...ergo has no responsibilty to keeping anything confidential.  If his freind invites him to the board or tells him about or someone else tells him about it......he is free to talk about.

I agree that he should move on...

[Eclipse]

He may not be in the chain, but he's bound by ethics and his oath to follow regulations, and that includes not revealing information about private matters that he may or may not become privy to.

[lordmonar]

He may not be in the chain, but he's bound by ethics and his oath to follow regulations, and that includes not revealing information about private matters that he may or may not become privy to.

I disagree...but there you go.

[Eclipse]

So members involved in an investigation are bound by confidentiality, but no one else is?

[lordmonar]

So members involved in an investigation are bound by confidentiality, but no one else is?

Basicly.

If you are part of the process.....i.e. an invistigator, a commander, someone the commander came to for advice (such as wing or squadron staff) you should keep it a close hold.

But of your friend is being 2b'ed and he tells you his side of the story......no reason that you can't talk about it.  If you were called into testify....no reason why you can't talk about your participation in the process.

Sure we should all refrain from gossip.....but that's a big difference between gossip and talking about a 2b action.

If we all held to the idea that you can't talk about it......then 90% of the threads on CT (including your posts and mine) whould be deleted.  This entire thread should be deleted.

[Private Investigator]

Move on.

I get enough gossip on TMZ.