Lets make all CAP senior members follow the same program

[ZigZag911]

Some revision of the current situation seems necessary.

One thing I'd really like to see eliminated is the possibility of promoting the wing legislative squadron commander to Lt Col...it is, in my view, frequently misused as a means for wing CCs to give otherwise unqualified, inexperienced cronies an undeserved promotion.

In general, I feel all advanced grade appointments should require a minimum of one year service as a CAP senior prior to promotion; this could be as SMWOG, or Flight Officer (if we revised the program to include those over 21 years of age).

[Chappie]

From the Chaplain side of the house ... the professional appointment is necessary due to our MOA with the USAF Chaplain Corps.  So the grade bestowed at appointment is based on the academic standing/ecclessiastical endorsement required.  CAP does offer a waiver for Chaplain applicants who do not have the 72 hour Master's Degree required for an USAF Chaplain applicant but has 5 years of documented Pastoral Experience.  There was a time when promotions were based on TIG -- in other words, breathing in and out.  Chaplains were not required to go past Level 1 for promotions.   That changed in 2007 when the SLS/CLC waiver was dropped and Chaplains are required to complete the SLS/CLC requirement.  That has been a significant change in that Chaplains are now required to know the CAP culture (novel idea, isn't it?).  As with any change, it will take awhile to see the impact ... but based on the experience of those chaplains who previously have completed all 5 levels of the Senior Member Professional Development Training program, there will be more chaplains with a better understanding of the way CAP operates.   In addition, the 221 Specialty Track has been updated.   Previously, it was simply reading the 221 and 221A pamphlets (which substituted for SLS/CLC).  That is no longer the practice.  The 221 is the Specialty Track guide, which in addition to the 221A/B/C pamphlets requires tasks to be completed that is commensurate with level of responsibilities assigned to the Chaplain.  As the former Chief of Chaplains stated, "The Chaplain Corps has joined CAP".

Anyone who can figure out the process for becoming a chaplain should be given advanced grade on that merit alone. We recently had a minister join my squadron, and we're currently stuck at "Get an ecclesiastical endorsement" when the list of endorsers is hundreds long and he has received no guidance on exactly which endorser he is supposed to use, or how to get an endorsement from them. I haven't talked to him in awhile though as he has been traveling so he may have worked something out in the interim.

PM sent

[AirDX]

One thing I'd really like to see eliminated is the possibility of promoting the wing legislative squadron commander to Lt Col...it is, in my view, frequently misused as a means for wing CCs to give otherwise unqualified, inexperienced cronies an undeserved promotion.

This piqued my interest.  How does that work, unless the WG/CC's cronies are elected officials?  Our legislative squadron "commander" with LtCol rank is also the state governor. And what does it actually matter, since they can't participate in CAP activities (other than by invitation)  or wear uniforms?

[lordmonar]

One thing I'd really like to see eliminated is the possibility of promoting the wing legislative squadron commander to Lt Col...it is, in my view, frequently misused as a means for wing CCs to give otherwise unqualified, inexperienced cronies an undeserved promotion.

This piqued my interest.  How does that work, unless the WG/CC's cronies are elected officials?  Our legislative squadron "commander" with LtCol rank is also the state governor. And what does it actually matter, since they can't participate in CAP activities (other than by invitation)  or wear uniforms?

Some wings appoint a regular CAP officer as the Legislative Squadron Commander....to run the squadron and act as the liason between the wing and the legislature.

So....as some point out....a wing commander could cycle his friends through this position and they all get to be Lt Cols.....as there is no time limit or probationary period.

[AirDX]

Aha, I see what's going on.  They are using this out of 35-5:

3-3. Wing Legislative Liaison Officers. Wing commanders may advance a senior member to the grade of lieutenant colonel concurrent with the member's appointment as the Wing Legislative Liaison Officer.

which actually has nothing to do with being the Leg. Squadron CC. 

Pretty smelly in any case.

[SARDOC]

Aha, I see what's going on.  They are using this out of 35-5:

3-3. Wing Legislative Liaison Officers. Wing commanders may advance a senior member to the grade of lieutenant colonel concurrent with the member's appointment as the Wing Legislative Liaison Officer.

which actually has nothing to do with being the Leg. Squadron CC. 

Pretty smelly in any case.

Right above where you found that line you'd find this one

Commanders of State Legislative Squadrons may be advanced to the grade of lieutenant colonel concurrent with the member's appointment.

[TBT]

I am in favor of eliminating the special promotions. Even the playing field. Learn and experience the program from the ground up. Earn the right to be an officer.

[lordmonar]

I am in favor of eliminating the special promotions. Even the playing field. Learn and experience the program from the ground up. Earn the right to be an officer.

Okay.....even if it means you will loose a lot of retired military officers?  Just saying.  "even the playing field" and "earn the right o be an officer".......can be mutually exclusive.

[RiverAux]

I am in favor of eliminating the special promotions. Even the playing field. Learn and experience the program from the ground up. Earn the right to be an officer.

Okay.....even if it means you will loose a lot of retired military officers?  Just saying.  "even the playing field" and "earn the right o be an officer".......can be mutually exclusive.

So, you're saying that the retired military officers are so vain that they would be offended by being asked to learn how the program they're joining works and to advance through the member development system utilized by that organization?  Seems like you're saying that they're no better than the people that supposedly just join for the bling. 

[Short Field]

At a minimum, make them complete the appropriate Professional Development level for their rank within a reasonable amount of time to keep their rank in CAP.   It took me 38 months to achieve Level V.   My wife beat me to Level V by two months but she had a better mentor than I did.    This is not that hard.

[FARRIER]

Lets keep CAP from turning into a place where others come to make up for lack of gains in other parts of their life!

[SARDOC]

Most if the Military officers we've had join in my unit are more interested in our mission than Rank or Professional Development.  If they participate in the PD program it's because they want to do something that requires an advanced PR level.  A couple file the paperwork asking for the equivalency...Most don't.  I currently have a Retired CDR, LCDR and AF Lt.Col that are 2d Lt, 1st Lt and 2d Lt, respectively.  They are more focused on qualifying in ES and AE...The rank isn't a motivator for them.

If the retired officer was willing to take their ball and go home because they they couldn't get their active duty equivalent...I'd be more worried about their Character.  That being said, I do believe that if they want it and can justify it, they should get it with the way things are being done now.  Your experience may vary but the Career Military officers I've dealt with are professionals. They understand that this is a different organization and are more focused on the mission than the Military/uniform culture that is very prevalent in some places.

[CAP_truth]

IMO Extend the flight officers to include members over 21 for mission rated skills promotion. When these members obtain the PD requiremnt they could then be promoted to the current rank as stated in regularions. Members with degrees in the specialty that they are using in CAP or former military should be granted the temporary rank that is currently stated in regulations. But, give them a time limit to meet the PD requirement to permanently keep that grade. ex. 1st. Lt. 12 months, Capt. 18 months, MaJ. 24 MONTHS, Lt. Col 36 months.

[Spaceman3750]

IMO Extend the flight officers to include members over 21 for mission rated skills promotion. When these members obtain the PD requiremnt they could then be promoted to the current rank as stated in regularions. Members with degrees in the specialty that they are using in CAP or former military should be granted the temporary rank that is currently stated in regulations. But, give them a time limit to meet the PD requirement to permanently keep that grade. ex. 1st. Lt. 12 months, Capt. 18 months, MaJ. 24 MONTHS, Lt. Col 36 months.

The FO structure is misunderstood enough as it is. Can't we leave it alone?

[CAP_truth]

Flight officer were started so members under 21 could be promoted to a grade other than senior member. When warrant officer grades were allowed these members could be promoted. I was a warrant officer before my 21th birthday. I suggest that we extend them to any age and for mission rated personnel like new pilot, observers, radio operators till they could be advance using the normal PD program with TIG and achievements.

[lordmonar]

I am in favor of eliminating the special promotions. Even the playing field. Learn and experience the program from the ground up. Earn the right to be an officer.

Okay.....even if it means you will loose a lot of retired military officers?  Just saying.  "even the playing field" and "earn the right o be an officer".......can be mutually exclusive.

So, you're saying that the retired military officers are so vain that they would be offended by being asked to learn how the program they're joining works and to advance through the member development system utilized by that organization?  Seems like you're saying that they're no better than the people that supposedly just join for the bling.

For some of them....yes that is exactly what I am saying.  I know a few Retired Cols who remain SMWOG because of our rank policy.  I know we will not loose all of them...or even most of them....but we will loose some. IMHO.

I, like ShortField, advocate the "we will give you advanced promotion...but you got to fill in the gaps".   The numbers that OP posted about rank and PD not matching is almost 95% EX military officers.  They all come in get their LT col or Maj ranks right after doing Level I.....and then just stop.  Not that they are not productive members of CAP....they just have a need or a reason to do the CAP PD program.  What's in it for them?  The only carrot is "if you want to get promoted you got finish your Level III"....but he already has the highest promotion he is ever going to get (if he is wearing Lt Col).

[lordmonar]

Lets keep CAP from turning into a place where others come to make up for lack of gains in other parts of their life!

So....are you going to pay us?

Review your Maslow's.

[FARRIER]

Lets keep CAP from turning into a place where others come to make up for lack of gains in other parts of their life!

So....are you going to pay us?

Review your Maslow's.

LM, PM sent. RM had it right when he mentioned in the past that some come in, making CAP an imaginary career. The mission gets lost in that mindset. The Professional Development program should continue to have the mission mindset built into it somehow. If someone comes in as a Captain because they are a CFI, no problem. Everyone's motivation isn't 100% altruistic, but when someone joins CAP, they shouldn't be joining CAP just to be able to wear LTC Oak Leaves in the future.

[Eclipse]

If someone comes in as a Captain because they are a CFI, no problem.

No problem?  Or no problem if they are using their special skills to CAP's advantage.

A CFI without a Form 5, and who won't do AE training (" 'cause if I wanted to deal with kids, I'd stay home...",  is no more "special then the member who walks in the door with no special skills.

I agree wholeheartedly that CAP, and it's tangible and intangible rewards, should be mission focused, and when our members aren't, then they should
feel some bling pain.

[Eclipse]

Lets keep CAP from turning into a place where others come to make up for lack of gains in other parts of their life!

So....are you going to pay us?

Review your Maslow's.

So that's all it's about?


Assuming you ascribe to Maslow, CAP falls into the Self-Actualization / Esteem area.  You're going to tell me a military officer isn't already
reading full on his SA/E meter and he needs CAP to re-validate his shoulders?  The intangible reward of volunteerism and the service mentality stressed in the military isn't enough?

It's worth repeating that many members who are military officers feel it cheapens the grade to just give it to them when they haven't earned it
through their knowledge and service to CAP.