National Diversity Officer - Volunteer Wanted.

[James Shaw]

No one that would be part of this type  "focus" is pre-destined to a life. It is a matter of choices and alternatives. CAP may be an alternative for them. To suggest that a specific area or group does not want or have the desire is short sighted.

For me CAP was an alternative to what other kids were doing in my neighborhood. Alot of them stayed in trouble and eventually went through the juvenile justice system. CAP as a cadet for me was an alternative to that life. I stayed out of trouble and CAP was part of that. My parents could not afford the expenses associated with it or the uniforms and such. It was the local unit and a CAP SM who made sure that I had the choice and a ride. I lived 20 miles from the Albany Composite Squadron and my parents worked too much to be able to take me to a meeting.

I was a terrible student in middle and high school and didn't have any real direction. It seemed like I was pre-destined to live the same life that the people in my neighborhood did. CAP did not completley change that but it did have an impact  on my future because someone in CAP card enough to give me an alternative.

[FW]

Sir, you think inner city kids are the correct fit for CAP?

Kids that are probably in a gang, associated with drugs (whether they be pushers or users [I got offered coke by a 11 yr old, so don't think 12 yr olds aren't pushing]), rape, prostitution, murder, need I go on?

If those are the kind of kids you are okay with than I am scared. Membership is a privilege. Personally I don't think CAP would benefit from those types of kids.

Like it has been said, we are not a community outreach program.

Actually, we are a "community outreach program".  It is our mandate to spread the word on the benefits of aviation and aerospace power to the masses.  It is our mandate to have a cadet program which develops the youth of america into successful citizens of our great country. Need I go on? 

Have you read about our "ACES" program?  How well inner city youth from 5-11 thrive in it.  How parents are so happy there is an alternative to the life you and some others discribe.  Maybe you don't understand the school programs we have in many inner city school districts which give some proper structure to those who may not get it anywhere else.  Then, there are inner city squadrons which constantly turn out successful young adults on society. 

From what I read, the NDO will advise the commander on expanding our outreach, attend conferences and speak on the many benefits we can provide to all interested.  I don't see anything wrong with this.

[Major Lord]

Is the phrase "Inner city kid" a codeword as Ned asks rhetorically? Of course it is. But its not about race or other "protected class", its about poverty, and insofar as it effects recruitment, it also has to do with proximity to Air Bases and Airports, all key factors not just in recruiting, but in more importantly, in retention. If ponying up the initial monies to launch a kid with poor parents into the Cadet program was sufficient, it would be great. My personal experience in personally funding cadets without the financial means to join and remain in CAP is poor. Every cadet I have personally funded because I thought that they could get through the rocks and shoals of initial membership and uniform costs has quickly dropped out; The burdens of transportation, and lack of support from their parents and communities were major factors in failure.

An ugly but poignant reality is that much of the failure of the "inner city" inhabitants is their refusal or reluctance to assimilate into the culture of success, read, write and speak the English language, and focus instead on remaining hyphenate-Americans, clinging to "Gangsta" or other harmful cultures and separatist ideals. This clinging to failure is reinforced by an education system that benefits from the establishment of a permanent welfare class. Its going to be much harder to recruit Cadets (and Senior members) from a subculture that wears Che Guevara T-shirts, and knows more about Malcolm X than they do about Horatio Alger. Of course, these are broad generalities, but you can see how the effect of culture makes all the difference in determining which kids will be successful and which kids are essentially doomed.

Do you really want to bring Cadets from the ghetto into CAP? It could be done; simply steer candidates to  a military or parochial primary education system. On the other hand, having a primary education ( military school) run by the same people who focus on diversity, suicide prevention, NASCAR, and other politically correct nonsense  is unlikely to produce a result much different than the system employing third rate, tax-feeder teachers who can generally only find employment in the very worst schools in America. Personally, I think a Voucher System would nearly eliminate the need for public primary education as we know it, but Teachers Unions represent teachers, not children. I suppose that's why Unions are called "Organized" crime.....

Major Lord

[FW]

Major, may I take the shovel from your hands now?  Methinks you are digging a deep hole.  In the city I usually deal with, we have Spaatz winners, lawyers, doctors, engineers, pilots and AF officers all coming out of these "inner city" squadrons.  Even in environments where drive by shootings are the norm and, english is a second language, we do succeed.  That is not what we are discussing.  And, trying to implicate one class of people have no hope to succeed in CAP or life is ridiculous. 

IMO, one of the reasons we have not grown in numbers is to refuse to open up our minds to what wee can accomplish.  It's not just about the mission.  It's also about being open in who we work with; in spite of means, beliefs and looks. 

[NCRblues]

"inner city kids" are vastly more likely to join gangs, commit crime and eventually go to prison that any other portion of American society. That's not my ideas, that is what the FBI and in turn the government we (sometimes but not all the time) work for says. For those that say I (and others) are using a broad brush, well, I guess you need to call up the FBI and ask them not to publish crime statistics anymore. My local area has one of the lowest crime rates around. The major city only a few miles east has one the highest, because of gangs, murders and drugs.......

How do you get "inner city kids" to join, or more female to join or more non-Christians to join by sending a NDO to STEM conferences??

This just does not make a whole lot of sense to some of us.

We can't afford to expand the CP as it is. Cadets already in the program and already in uniform struggle to pay the rising cost of some things in CAP as it is. If we recruit more "inner city kids" how are they going to pay? How do you keep those "inner city" kids from up and leaving when the non- inner city cadets go off to a 150$ encampment, or a 350$ NCSA (not to mention the cost of travel to those) and the inner city cadets can't afford to play anymore? I can't pay it.....can you? How long is that sustainable? Is it even good for the organization?

[Extremepredjudice]

Sure not all inner city kids are bad! Nothing is absolute.

The inner city kids that seek out CAP are going to be the ones we want.

Guess what? They did it by themselves. Not with a NDO helping them.

If you think I'm predjudice, than I'm not going to change your opinion.  I just think CAP needs to thinkcarefully about who it lets in.

WhydoyouguysalwaysassumethatIamlikethisnatziorsomething.watchyoutakethatthewrongway! 

[Eclipse]

We can't afford to expand the CP as it is. Cadets already in the program and already in uniform struggle to pay the rising cost of some things in CAP as it is. If we recruit more "inner city kids" how are they going to pay? How do you keep those "inner city" kids from up and leaving when the non- inner city cadets go off to a 150$ encampment, or a 350$ NCSA (not to mention the cost of travel to those) and the inner city cadets can't afford to play anymore? I can't pay it.....can you? How long is that sustainable? Is it even good for the organization?

I don't see how these issues are related.

Expansion of the program really has no relation to the cost per person for uniform or activities.

Are there capacity issues at some of the venues?  Sure, that just means we need to run more activities at the same places or
find more places.

Generally the per-person cost is fairly fixed based on consumables - 20% more people just means 20% more t-shirts, and 20-% more meals, it doesn't raise the cost per person.

Now, if you want to make an issue that increased cadets means an increase in the number of adults in the program to supervise and run things, that's a fair discussion, but that presupposes a recruiting effort that is wildly successful and so unexpected as to catch everyone off-guard.

I also don't understand why "diversity" means "cadets" in this discussion.  The NDO will be charged with diversity across the board, not just recruiting cadets.

[Flying Pig]

In my experience cadet, as a DCC and as a SqCC, its not just the kids who lack the interest.  Its their parents who lack the interest also.  Lets face it.  A lot of moms and dads have way more to worry about than getting their kids to CAP once a week.  When my son was a cadet, keeping him interested in CAP was a struggle.  And I was the SqCC!!  It was very expensive.  He ultimately decided after a year that CAP wasn't for him.  I was strangely disappointed and relieved at the same time.  I have a pretty decent job and it was a hassle financially. 

My Sq was located in one of the worst areas in Fresno.  We recruited at all of the local school, got free uniforms from a local JROTC unit from a contact my Deputy for Seniors made, and we all but BEGGED kids to join.  The JROTC commander at one of the minority schools we recruited at heavily (Hmong Cambodian and Laotian) even gave internal incentives for JROTC cadets who wanted to join CAP.   Nothing.  The kids were just not interested.  They were in ROTC because it was a class that counted for graduation.  We had been to other High Schools to recruit as well, again....I think we maybe pulled in 1 or 2.  Recruiting at Airshows.  Maybe a few more.  Interesting thing though, we werent targeting minorities, we were just going after anyone who would listen.  We just wanted kids to join, believing that once they did, their parents would too.  It did not end up being the case.  In todays society, people just dont have time to dedicate to CAP across the board.

I dont think we are to far off from the demographics of the US Air Force, an organization that dedicated hundreds of full time members to the cause and millions of dollars to "diversity".  And they actually offer a pay check, benefits and a free place to live! And they are saying that over 73% of the force is white.  So instead of CAP dumping this money into it, maybe CAP could get with the AF and find out why minorities aren't even joining the military?

http://www.usamilitaryjobs.com/2011/01/06/u-s-military-demographics-what-the-air-force-of-2011-looks-like/

"Race of Airmen The following percentages, which are selfreported, cover Air Force military members' racial information. 0.66 percent reported their race to be American Indian or native Alaskan 2.7 percent reported their race to be Asian 14.45 percent reported their race to be black or African American 1.06 percent reported their race to be native Hawaiian or other Pacific Islander 73.28 percent reported their race to be white 5.49 percent declined to report their race
Ethnicity "Hispanic or Latino" is now considered an ethnic, not a racial, category that is registered separately and in addition to the above racial categories. 5.3 percent of Airmen call themselves "Hispanic/Latino" 80 percent "not Hispanic/Latino" – 14.07 declined to respond"

[NCRblues]

We can't afford to expand the CP as it is. Cadets already in the program and already in uniform struggle to pay the rising cost of some things in CAP as it is. If we recruit more "inner city kids" how are they going to pay? How do you keep those "inner city" kids from up and leaving when the non- inner city cadets go off to a 150$ encampment, or a 350$ NCSA (not to mention the cost of travel to those) and the inner city cadets can't afford to play anymore? I can't pay it.....can you? How long is that sustainable? Is it even good for the organization?

I don't see how these issues are related.

Expansion of the program really has no relation to the cost per person for uniform or activities.

Are there capacity issues at some of the venues?  Sure, that just means we need to run more activities at the same places or
find more places.

Generally the per-person cost is fairly fixed based on consumables - 20% more people just means 20% more t-shirts, and 20-% more meals, it doesn't raise the cost per person.

Now, if you want to make an issue that increased cadets means an increase in the number of adults in the program to supervise and run things, that's a fair discussion, but that presupposes a recruiting effort that is wildly successful and so unexpected as to catch everyone off-guard.

I also don't understand why "diversity" means "cadets" in this discussion.  The NDO will be charged with diversity across the board, not just recruiting cadets.

No, I don't think you understood what I meant.

Ill expand a little than.

If your squadron is like mine, you have a mixture of well off cadets who can afford to run off to expensive things like NCSA's and encampments without a second thought, and poor kids who have to plan a long time ahead to be able to even think about an encampment, let alone an NCSA. How do you keep those poorer cadets motivated? How do you get those cadets to advance? Now that ECI 13 is done, how do you get those cadets (if they stay in long enough) to c/Lt. Col, when they can't afford to go to COS or RCLS? You can only get so many grants or scholarships. I can only pay for so many cadets before I am broke.

Pushing more people into CAP that can't afford to play is going to force undue strain and stress on the members who support the organization already. I was not saying more cadets would = higher prices. I just want to know how this is going to be sustainable.

[Eclipse]

If your squadron is like mine, you have a mixture of well off cadets who can afford to run off to expensive things like NCSA's and encampments without a second thought, and poor kids who have to plan a long time ahead to be able to even think about an encampment, let alone an NCSA. How do you keep those poorer cadets motivated? How do you get those cadets to advance? Now that ECI 13 is done, how do you get those cadets (if they stay in long enough) to c/Lt. Col, when they can't afford to go to COS or RCLS? You can only get so many grants or scholarships. I can only pay for so many cadets before I am broke.

If your experience is that you had a gaggle of cadets piled up at Chief because they could not get to an encampment, you have a valid argument but
it doesn't match my experience, and that still doesn't change the actual equation, it just presents a challenge that has been around for a couple decades in CAP.  And for the record, there are thousands of dollars in scholarships every year that go unspent, and a lot that go unapplied for because people can't be bothered.

The expense of NCSA's and encampments is not a major factor for the majority of cadets, and certainly not one in the first 1-3 years for most.

In my universe, the challenges to recruiting and retention were that the squadrons weren't doing anything worth bothering with, and/or the
local kids just weren't interested, which is a societal problem related to the entitlement mentality of this society, and not specifically linked to
gender or ethnicity.

Kids these days think a high ranking on MW3 is "hard core", but when faced with the realities and expectations of paramilitary organizations,
just look the other way.

[NCRblues]

If your squadron is like mine, you have a mixture of well off cadets who can afford to run off to expensive things like NCSA's and encampments without a second thought, and poor kids who have to plan a long time ahead to be able to even think about an encampment, let alone an NCSA. How do you keep those poorer cadets motivated? How do you get those cadets to advance? Now that ECI 13 is done, how do you get those cadets (if they stay in long enough) to c/Lt. Col, when they can't afford to go to COS or RCLS? You can only get so many grants or scholarships. I can only pay for so many cadets before I am broke.

If your experience is that you had a gaggle of cadets piled up at Chief because they could not get to an encampment, you have a valid argument but
it doesn't match my experience, and that still doesn't change the actual equation, it just presents a challenge that has been around for a couple decades in CAP.  And for the record, there are thousands of dollars in scholarships every year that go unspent, and a lot that go unapplied for because people can't be bothered.

The expense of NCSA's and encampments is not a major factor for the majority of cadets, and certainly not one in the first 1-3 years for most.

In my universe, the challenges to recruiting and retention were that the squadrons weren't doing anything worth bothering with, and/or the
local kids just weren't interested, which is a societal problem related to the entitlement mentality of this society, and not specifically linked to
gender or ethnicity.

Kids these days think a high ranking on MW3 is "hard core", but when faced with the realities and expectations of paramilitary organizations,
just look the other way.

I agree, it is hard to compete with MW3.... I mean who does not love taking down international terrorist and ending ww3 single handily in a day? 

If you know of any scholarships that are not used, send them my way. I have 2 whole squadrons of 70 plus cadets that come from VERY poor working areas south of me. Out of both of those squadrons, 5 cadets got to go to a local winter encampment because the wing paid there way. The rest was told "next time". I can use all the money I can get to send kids to encampment/NCSA's.

[Major Lord]

Major, may I take the shovel from your hands now?  Methinks you are digging a deep hole.  In the city I usually deal with, we have Spaatz winners, lawyers, doctors, engineers, pilots and AF officers all coming out of these "inner city" squadrons.  Even in environments where drive by shootings are the norm and, english is a second language, we do succeed.  That is not what we are discussing.  And, trying to implicate one class of people have no hope to succeed in CAP or life is ridiculous. 

IMO, one of the reasons we have not grown in numbers is to refuse to open up our minds to what wee can accomplish.  It's not just about the mission.  It's also about being open in who we work with; in spite of means, beliefs and looks.

No one in their right mind would suggest that successful people get out of the ghetto. They do so because they are willing to integrate, not to segregate, themselves. You can keep the shovel; its probably hard to move all that Kool-Aid around with your bare hands. No one in CAP that I have ever met gave a rodents hindquarters about "Means, beliefs and  looks" (well maybe "looks", some CAP members look pretty good, and some look pretty awful) Yes, it just about the mission(s), and that outgoing mission includes people of all races, colors, and creeds, but not to the exclusion of others, and not at the expense of others. I agree with you that CAP's stagnation is one of the factors in stunting our growth, but there is much more to it than that.

Major Lord

[G+10]

Ned,

I would take a venture to say that the "gender" difference in CAP is the same as in the military. Fewer women want to play G.I. Joe (Jane I guess in this instance). A lot less girls want to put on combat boots and BDU's compared to males (I think you will have to speak to god on that one Ned, not much a diversity officer can do).

You can talk all about the leadership and aerospace education you want, but, we do those things in military uniforms that limit the free expression of the teenage/young adult female in question. It is not a mystery to me why we have less female cadets.

I think you hit the nail right on the head with that one. In 2008 females comprised 18% of the officer rank and 20% of the enlisted rank - exactly the numbers Ned is seeing in CAP.

[Eclipse]

We pat ourselves on the back as to "how far we've come" in the last century in regards to the rights of women and minorities, and
work hard to dispel any myths about lack of opportunity in CAP, and then you see the reality of the real universe:

http://www.hulu.com/watch/317572/the-daily-show-with-jon-stewart-george-lucas

Is CAP a part of the problem or a part of the solution?  Can we do much to help?  Is it our role?  I don't know.

I think there are legitimate questions and conversations to be had about the method and personal motivations
about some of the personalities involved, and whether volunteer paradigms like ours have the capability or mandate
to make a difference without impacting the real work of our missions.

"Questions" doesn't equal "indictments", but unfortunately in this TMZ / Facebook Drama culture, we can't seem
to be able to have academic discussions about important topics without lionizing those who disagree with us.

I do know, however, that until situations like this are corrected, the conversation isn't and can't be over if we're really
going to represent the values that we print in the pamphlets.

[MICT1362]

After cathing up on 5 pages of thread, this seems to be a Recruiting and Retention issue.  Instead of creating another position to work on a job that technically should already be done, why don't we just emphasize to our R&R Officer that they need to be looking at the demographics of their Squadrons, Wings, or Regions and push themselves to go out and recruit these minority groups.  It doesn't matter whether its gender or ethnically motivated.

I know that as a squadron recruiter I go out of my way to make sure to try and encourage the female candidates both cadet and senior to join.  In fact at one time, I had more females than males.  But just like the total number of members, that changes constantly.

I don't think that we need to overwork our people, but I don't think a reminder to do your ENTIRE job is a bad start here.

Just a thought.

-Medic

[RADIOMAN015]

Looks like we have a NDO appointed see: 
http://www.capvolunteernow.com/todays-features/?cap_names_national_chief_diversity_officer&show=news&newsID=12526

Personally, I don't anything about the individual appointed, other than what is printed in that article.
RM

[RogueLeader]

Don't what about him. I think there's a word missing.

[A.Member]

After cathing up on 5 pages of thread, this seems to be a Recruiting and Retention issue.  Instead of creating another position to work on a job that technically should already be done, why don't we just emphasize to our R&R Officer that they need to be looking at the demographics of their Squadrons, Wings, or Regions...

^


As was mentioned in an earlier post, all I see coming out of this new position is yet a new series of useless reports and meaningless/ineffective training. 

NHQ seems to be sidetracked on their priorities.  A new duty position was not needed - at best this should be a temporary project position (even that is a stretch).   

Perhaps NHQ should work on securing/defining actual mission objectives so that people have something to hang their hat on each week.   Our ES mission has virtually disappeared.  How will we reinvent ourselves relative to that fact?  There are plenty of truly meaningful missions that we can perform for USAF and the country (and I'm not talking about laying wreaths).   If people don't see a real purpose/value in the use of their time they will not come...and, if by chance they do, they certainly won't stick around long.

Rather than create more meaningless bureaucracy, NHQ needs to start solving some actual problems.

[Flying Pig]

When asked about his appointment as national chief diversity officer, he said, "In this new role, I hope to do two things: First, help CAP tell its story on how it helps America's youth, and second, ensure CAP is a diverse and inclusive organization.

Congrats.  CAP has been doing that for 60 years.

[Patterson]

How do we become more diverse?  I know of no one I have met in CAP during two decades that would ever stop another person from joining based on factors other than those layed out as "Basic Qualifications".

CAP is not a charity.  How will our Leadership go about for paying to implement and sustain this new undertaking?  This will be another example in a long line of recent financially irresponsible mistakes made by CAP.  This can only take away from our current members pockets.  Any organization attempting this "right our wrongs" action end up dumping more and more money into it year after year.

We have equipment and facilities that need investing in, Cadets that are paying way to much to go to Encampments and cutbacks to our missions due to a Federal Budget that is laughable at best.

Take care of the current issues now, save the "make us look and feel good" stuff later!!