Its not just CAP who gets the fakers...

[GroundHawg]

It is actually Sr Army Aircrew Wings, he is also wearing the EFMB. Hinting that he was a medic in a dustoff type unit, or he switched MOS's.

[MIKE]

Also...unless something has radically changed since I was an Auxiliarist, rank titles are not used.

The proper address that I remember would be "Barry Keller, Flotilla Commander."

Speaking of which...I've never been good with rank abbreviations other than the USAF, Luftwaffe and Commonwealth.  "LtCdr" probably came from Star Trek or something similar.

That whole site is tore up from the floor up.   

[Major Lord]

The U.S. Army Cadet Corps mailed a part of a member's personnel (DD-214)  file to the media?

Actually, I simply sent a link to the DD-214 which was posted at www.pownetwork.org.  The file is scrubbed (no SSN) and available through a FOIA request.

Sir,

I hope I did not leave you with the impression I think you did a bad thing! Its just that doing the right thing often ends in lawsuits and death threats from bad employees and volunteers. Its better to just humanely euthanize them.

Major Lord

[COL Land]

I hope I did not leave you with the impression I think you did a bad thing! Its just that doing the right thing often ends in lawsuits and death threats from bad employees and volunteers. Its better to just humanely euthanize them.

I see you're as "warm and fuzzy" as ever! 

Having "outed" no less than five fake "Special Forces Colonels" in the past several years, a number of fake Drill Sergeants, and a bogus Navy SEAL or two...I've had my fair share of threats.   Ugh...part of the job.

Happy New Year!

[Major Lord]

I hope I did not leave you with the impression I think you did a bad thing! Its just that doing the right thing often ends in lawsuits and death threats from bad employees and volunteers. Its better to just humanely euthanize them.

I see you're as "warm and fuzzy" as ever! 

Having "outed" no less than five fake "Special Forces Colonels" in the past several years, a number of fake Drill Sergeants, and a bogus Navy SEAL or two...I've had my fair share of threats.   Ugh...part of the job.

Happy New Year!

Yes, I am well known for my sensitive nature...... If you have shot down five fake colonels, I think you are a Fake-Colonel Ace! FYI, you met our fake Colonel when we met with you on Camp SLO a number of years ago. He had ID and everything.

Major Lord

[a2capt]

I'm still convinced a certain individual that broke away from the ACA in Southern California is another of those ..  Every time, more and more fakery was abound. Yeah, they claim to be "doing good" by mentoring cadets to Spaatz or near, however, really? Is that really mentoring on a solid foundation?

[RADIOMAN015]

I hope I did not leave you with the impression I think you did a bad thing! Its just that doing the right thing often ends in lawsuits and death threats from bad employees and volunteers. Its better to just humanely euthanize them.

Having "outed" no less than five fake "Special Forces Colonels" in the past several years, a number of fake Drill Sergeants, and a bogus Navy SEAL or two...I've had my fair share of threats.   Ugh...part of the job.

JOSEPH M. LAND, SR.
COL, GS, USAC       
Chief of Staff             
Headquarters, U.S. Army Cadet Corps

Check this video out:
http://www.wkyt.com/news/headlines/Military_academy_brings_attention_to_old_Bourbon_County_campus_136410998.html?ref=998

That "Colonel" sure looks like a real US Army officer to me.  What's the distinctiveness being worn on that US Army type uniform that clearly shows it is just a civilian para military non profit organization's (paid employee )/member as the interviewee     (Contrasting it with the Civil Air Patrol's AF type Uniform "distinctiveness").   
RM

[COL Land]

Here is our ACR 670-1 which outlines the variety of modifications to the U.S. Army Cadet Corps (USAC) uniform.  As you'll see, there is quite a bit of "distinctiveness" to ensure no confusion in regards to the uniform. 

As for rank, there's never an indication that we're anything other than we are...I'm not an Army Colonel.   Our people may look, act, talk and walk like the "real deal," but that's more an example of professionalism than anything.   Are we mistaken for being active duty at times?  Yep, fairly regularly...but that has nothing to do with the various (and clearly placed) uniform modifications, but more to do with professional standards, performance and the carriage of the USAC officer or NCO.   

Is a CAP Major or a USAC Colonel "real?"   Yes, they are, in their culture.  Just as a police Major is a "real" Major in their own culture, they clearly have no authority over an Army Captain.  Does that mean that one is less "real" than the other?   No.   It boils down to knowing, practicing, and being proud of your organization's mission and not taking a position of inferiority to the other organization.   

USAC's attitude is that we are "non-paid professionals" and should be as professional at our unique mission of developing youth as our active, guard and reserve colleagues are at their mission of protecting America's interests.   Are the missions of the Army and USAC different?  Clearly, they are.  However, that's not to say that what we do isn't valued and important.   Organizationally, we refuse to be "second class" citizens just because of what we do.    As a result, we don't use the term "volunteer," as there are way too many folks who have the "I'm a volunteer...what are they gonna do, fire me?" attitude.   That just doesn't fly in USAC, plain and simple.  Incidentally, the answer is yes...we will - and have - fired "volunteers" if the individual does not maintain the standards expected of the program, or which are a positive reflection of the Army.  I'm sure there are plenty who will cry that that's overly harsh and that we take ourselves too serious.  Perhaps...but we are what we are.   Why pretend otherwise?  Why use being a volunteer as an excuse to half-step and unprofessional about our mission? 

As a result of that expected level of professionalism, we've been privileged to have met the Army's most senior leaders, with the program extremely well received. 



As for the interview...for the record, I'm not an employee of USAC.  I'm a "non-paid professional."  I earn my living as a consultant with a variety of federal agencies dealing with performance management issues.  In fact, I'm - at times - the "Grim Reaper" for non-performing employees, heavily involved in having them removed from the taxpayers' payroll.   With that said, my primary calling is to give back to Cadetting (April makes 37 years in boots) and continue to build, expand and improve upon USAC.   The next step is the opening of Forest Hill Military Academy in August, 2012, as you found online.  As you can imagine, these are exciting days for USAC!

We all (CAP, NSCC, USAC) are, as you stated, "...just a civilian para military non profit organization."  However, I prefer to drop the word "just" from the statement.   Just as with CAP, we are what we are...and we're [darn] good at it.    There's no "just" about it.   

[RADIOMAN015]

Comments in bold

Here is our ACR 670-1 which outlines the variety of modifications to the U.S. Army Cadet Corps (USAC) uniform.  As you'll see, there is quite a bit of "distinctiveness" to ensure no confusion in regards to the uniform. 
COMMENT:  Well, I'm referring specifically to the uniform combination worn during that interview (the outer wear jacket rank distinctiveness?).  I personally could not see any distinctiveness

As for rank, there's never an indication that we're anything other than we are...I'm not an Army Colonel.   Our people may look, act, talk and walk like the "real deal," but that's more an example of professionalism than anything.   Are we mistaken for being active duty at times?  Yep, fairly regularly...but that has nothing to do with the various (and clearly placed) uniform modifications, but more to do with professional standards, performance and the carriage of the USAC officer or NCO.   

Is a CAP Major or a USAC Colonel "real?"   Yes, they are, in their culture.  Just as a police Major is a "real" Major in their own culture, they clearly have no authority over an Army Captain.  Does that mean that one is less "real" than the other?   No.   It boils down to knowing, practicing, and being proud of your organization's mission and not taking a position of inferiority to the other organization. 

COMMENT:  Well, to each their own, BUT I think many of us (active/retired/reserve) are concerned about non military personnel presenting themselves as military and due to the public's real lack of knowledge, this results in some unearned benefit being bestowed on that group (whether it's CAP, USAC, Young Marine Adults, or Sea Cadet Corps Adults, USCG Aux). I will admit that the TV story does in fact ID you as US Army Cadet Corps a few times as a sub line as the video interview progresses.  HOWEVER, there is a VAST difference between being in the military and being a volunteer in a para military organization and I think some tend to forget this and that's what leads to problems for everyone  


As for the interview...for the record, I'm not an employee of USAC.  I'm a "non-paid professional."  I earn my living as a consultant with a variety of federal agencies dealing with performance management issues.  In fact, I'm - at times - the "Grim Reaper" for non-performing employees, heavily involved in having them removed from the taxpayers' payroll.   With that said, my primary calling is to give back to Cadetting (April makes 37 years in boots) and continue to build, expand and improve upon USAC.   The next step is the opening of Forest Hill Military Academy in August, 2012, as you found online.  As you can imagine, these are exciting days for USAC!

Well that really takes me by surprise, regarding no compensation for your work, because you seem to be the voice of that entire organization and the membership support seems to resolve around you.  Hopefully the military school will be a success, since it looks like that town and even the surrounding counties are very supportive of this endeavor

all (CAP, NSCC, USAC) are, as you stated, "...just a civilian para military non profit organization."  However, I prefer to drop the word "just" from the statement.   Just as with CAP, we are what we are...and we're [darn] good at it.    There's no "just" about it.

I somewhat agree with you on this.  The youth development para military organizations, at least the community based ones, and others that have additional operational missions (CAP & USCG Aux), are strong community contributors and hopefully have achieved recognition in their communities.  However again, volunteers do need to have a health perspective, on how they fit into the organization and what the organization is and IS NOT.   When that gets imbalanced you get some crazy things happening that becomes detrimental to the organization as well as the individual member  -- I'm sure you know what I mean 

I would sincerely hope that no one thinks that I'm focusing just on your para military organization.   HOWEVER, I do still wonder when compared with others (CAP, Young Marines, Sea Cadets) why USAC does not list contact points for their local community programs on their website.   Surely, if there's a small number of local units nationwide, I think most of us would realize the challenge of going it alone without any major sponsors to help you, especially the US Army formally.  Your summer camp programs do seem to draw quite a few teenagers interested in the military and law enforcement, and for that your organization should be saluted.
RM   

[titanII]

Is that General Odierno in the middle/back?

[COL Land]

Is that General Odierno in the middle/back?

Yes, along with Sergeant Major of the Army Raymond F. Chandler III.

[COL Land]

COMMENT:  Well, I'm referring specifically to the uniform combination worn during that interview (the outer wear jacket rank distinctiveness?).  I personally could not see any distinctiveness

Patch, right shoulder.   

...results in some unearned benefit being bestowed on that group (whether it's CAP, USAC, Young Marine Adults, or Sea Cadet Corps Adults, USCG Aux).

The only "unearned benefit" bestowed upon folks involved with USAC, CAP, NSCC, etc. is the privilege of wearing the uniform that they pay for; the self-satisfaction of serving others; and an occasional salute from someone who may or may not know what the various modifications mean.  Let's keep this all in perspective...no one is getting a new car, earning a million dollars or being made Grand Marshal of a parade (oops...that takes us to the original topic of this tread), as a result of service in a uniformed organization. 

Well that really takes me by surprise, regarding no compensation for your work, because you seem to be the voice of that entire organization and the membership support seems to resolve around you.  Hopefully the military school will be a success, since it looks like that town and even the surrounding counties are very supportive of this endeavor

Yes, I'm the official "voice," but that doesn't discount the many, many others who serve as officers, NCOs and civilians with USAC.   We just don't have a lot of loose cannons spewing inaccurate information hither and yon.  That's intentional.  As for the school, it will succeed...no question about it.  We do not set out to fail.   

I would sincerely hope that no one thinks that I'm focusing just on your para military organization.   HOWEVER, I do still wonder when compared with others (CAP, Young Marines, Sea Cadets) why USAC does not list contact points for their local community programs on their website.

That question has been asked and answered.   We choose not to.  It's as simple as that.

[titanII]

Is that General Odierno in the middle/back?

Yes, along with Sergeant Major of the Army Raymond F. Chandler III.

Cool! 

[RiverAux]

We had a guy in our wing who claimed to be a medically retired Army Col.  Former commander of a major Army Recruiting unit.  He bamboozeld TNWG into giving him LT Col and used that as his basis for rank when he transfered here to NVWG.

His name was Barry something.   We dealt with him too and then outed him to proper authority.  Later saw him as a BG in the "Army Volunteer Reserve."  Oddly, years later, he tried again submit a request to form a USAC unit...ugh.

That's the bozo!  Barry Keller.  With the U.S. National Defense Corps......and I just learned...the 2012 commander of the Las Vegas USCGAUX flotilla!

RiverAux.....you need to ping your leadership about this guy!

done, though someone else may have beat me to it as that Las Vegas flotilla site is now down.  He would have had to go through the OS background check at one time, so would have had some checking on his military service claims. 

[The CyBorg is destroyed]

COMMENT:  Well, I'm referring specifically to the uniform combination worn during that interview (the outer wear jacket rank distinctiveness?).  I personally could not see any distinctiveness.

RM, if it doesn't look like the bloody Salvation Army with red epaulettes to you, it's not "distinctive."

Well, to each their own, BUT I think many of us (active/retired/reserve) are concerned about non military personnel presenting themselves as military and due to the public's real lack of knowledge, this results in some unearned benefit being bestowed on that group (whether it's CAP, USAC, Young Marine Adults, or Sea Cadet Corps Adults, USCG Aux).

What is your obsession with this very rarely existing situation?  There is more to being in CAP or any of these other groups than your little bailiwick of Public Affairs, and your near-assumption that the public is too stupid/blind/uninformed to know the difference between a CAP/NSCC/USAC/CGAUX officer and an officer in the five Armed Services.  Can you document, with hard data, an on-going, persistent model of behaviour on the part of a civilian military auxiliary person from any of these organisations posing as "the real thing" to get that "unearned benefit?"

HOWEVER, there is a VAST difference between being in the military and being a volunteer in a para military organization

When in doubt, restate the patently obvious.

and I think some tend to forget this and that's what leads to problems for everyone

You mean the very, very few and far between incidents of a CAP officer trying to dress down a military member?  For that you'd have us out of the USAF uniform?  Great Bog in Devon.

[The CyBorg is destroyed]

Cool! 

Wow...talk about top brass...

[titanII]

Cool! 

Wow...talk about top brass...

no kidding...

[RADIOMAN015]

Please see comments in bold

COMMENT:  Well, I'm referring specifically to the uniform combination worn during that interview (the outer wear jacket rank distinctiveness?).  I personally could not see any distinctiveness.

RM, if it doesn't look like the bloody Salvation Army with red epaulettes to you, it's not "distinctive."

The explanation was given as to the "distinctiveness", the camera angle did not show this distinctiveness (of the patch on the right shoulder) in the interview.   IF it were a CAP member with the blue jacket the grey epaulets with the rank would be fairly distinctive in that interview setting.   

Well, to each their own, BUT I think many of us (active/retired/reserve) are concerned about non military personnel presenting themselves as military and due to the public's real lack of knowledge, this results in some unearned benefit being bestowed on that group (whether it's CAP, USAC, Young Marine Adults, or Sea Cadet Corps Adults, USCG Aux).

What is your obsession with this very rarely existing situation?  There is more to being in CAP or any of these other groups than your little bailiwick of Public Affairs, and your near-assumption that the public is too stupid/blind/uninformed to know the difference between a CAP/NSCC/USAC/CGAUX officer and an officer in the five Armed Services.  Can you document, with hard data, an on-going, persistent model of behaviour on the part of a civilian military auxiliary person from any of these organisations posing as "the real thing" to get that "unearned benefit?"

We all are entitled to our opinions.  It alarms me that some members are so concerned about being able to wear the AF style uniforms and if that was taken away they would leave the organization, especially on the Emergency Services side, because functionality of uniform & strong organization identification are important .  Field uniform wise I would like to see a very distinctive uniform in use that leaves no doubt that it is Civil Air Patrol providing that support -- it's just good public relations to achieve this.  We don't have that yet.   Members are not always the culprits either in this "mistaken identity" while in AF type uniforms (even BDU's), even at simple stops to just get a quick lunch -- it can put the member in an awkward situation when something free is given. Perhaps the best approach is to accept it and then take the money you saved and donate it to a Veterans support association, such as the "Wounded Warrior Program".  Than everyone wins :clap:       

HOWEVER, there is a VAST difference between being in the military and being a volunteer in a para military organization

When in doubt, restate the patently obvious.
Some CAP "Officers" seem to get a holy than thou attitude when dealing with the military and even some civilians.  That so called fantasy attitude sometimes get seen (e.g. security forces entry gate guards) and than when they get jacked up they are all upset.   They cause their own problems.  I never have a problem as a military officer retiree (and I was an NCO for quite a few years also), because I treat all military personnel with respect (especially the gate security guards -- cause that's a difficult job).  Also regulation wise it is quite clear as to CAP's status -- rank does not get any privileges. CAP members are just "PFC"'s.  Also live with this fact --- most people in the AF could care less about CAP, and it isn't worth the effort to educate everyone, only the appropriate 'decision makers' need to know about us, especially at the local level    

and I think some tend to forget this and that's what leads to problems for everyone

You mean the very, very few and far between incidents of a CAP officer trying to dress down a military member?  For that you'd have us out of the USAF uniform?  Great Bog in Devon.

I think there's a lot more that goes on than gets reported to anyone regarding improper behavior in a CAP uniform, which is more likely to occur with any of the AF styles.   It just doesn't mean interacting with the military but the interaction that also goes on with the civilian population (that's why there's limits as to when/how long a CAP uniform can be worn and anyone observed outside those parameters needs to be looked at very carefully).

Personally I joined CAP to participate in Emergency Services/Radio Communications, and also agreed to do some supporting roles e.g Public Affairs (which I've been very fortunate to get the best TV media coverage in the wing (likely the only coverage))   Wear of AF type uniforms just was not a reason for why I joined CAP.  I think there needs to be a delicate balance of "distinctiveness"  in the wear of AF type uniform by adult members and very good supervision of them when they wear these uniforms. 

RM 

[Eclipse]

I think there's a lot more that goes on than gets reported to anyone regarding improper behavior in a CAP uniform,

Few on this board are surprised.

which is more likely to occur with any of the AF styles. 

Cite, please.

[AngelWings]

Please see comments in bold

COMMENT:  Well, I'm referring specifically to the uniform combination worn during that interview (the outer wear jacket rank distinctiveness?).  I personally could not see any distinctiveness.

RM, if it doesn't look like the bloody Salvation Army with red epaulettes to you, it's not "distinctive."

The explanation was given as to the "distinctiveness", the camera angle did not show this distinctiveness (of the patch on the right shoulder) in the interview.   IF it were a CAP member with the blue jacket the grey epaulets with the rank would be fairly distinctive in that interview setting.   

Well, to each their own, BUT I think many of us (active/retired/reserve) are concerned about non military personnel presenting themselves as military and due to the public's real lack of knowledge, this results in some unearned benefit being bestowed on that group (whether it's CAP, USAC, Young Marine Adults, or Sea Cadet Corps Adults, USCG Aux).

What is your obsession with this very rarely existing situation?  There is more to being in CAP or any of these other groups than your little bailiwick of Public Affairs, and your near-assumption that the public is too stupid/blind/uninformed to know the difference between a CAP/NSCC/USAC/CGAUX officer and an officer in the five Armed Services.  Can you document, with hard data, an on-going, persistent model of behaviour on the part of a civilian military auxiliary person from any of these organisations posing as "the real thing" to get that "unearned benefit?"

We all are entitled to our opinions.  It alarms me that some members are so concerned about being able to wear the AF style uniforms and if that was taken away they would leave the organization, especially on the Emergency Services side, because functionality of uniform & strong organization identification are important .  Field uniform wise I would like to see a very distinctive uniform in use that leaves no doubt that it is Civil Air Patrol providing that support -- it's just good public relations to achieve this.  We don't have that yet.   Members are not always the culprits either in this "mistaken identity" while in AF type uniforms (even BDU's), even at simple stops to just get a quick lunch -- it can put the member in an awkward situation when something free is given. Perhaps the best approach is to accept it and then take the money you saved and donate it to a Veterans support association, such as the "Wounded Warrior Program".  Than everyone wins :clap:       

HOWEVER, there is a VAST difference between being in the military and being a volunteer in a para military organization

When in doubt, restate the patently obvious.
Some CAP "Officers" seem to get a holy than thou attitude when dealing with the military and even some civilians.  That so called fantasy attitude sometimes get seen (e.g. security forces entry gate guards) and than when they get jacked up they are all upset.   They cause their own problems.  I never have a problem as a military officer retiree (and I was an NCO for quite a few years also), because I treat all military personnel with respect (especially the gate security guards -- cause that's a difficult job).  Also regulation wise it is quite clear as to CAP's status -- rank does not get any privileges. CAP members are just "PFC"'s.  Also live with this fact --- most people in the AF could care less about CAP, and it isn't worth the effort to educate everyone, only the appropriate 'decision makers' need to know about us, especially at the local level    

and I think some tend to forget this and that's what leads to problems for everyone

You mean the very, very few and far between incidents of a CAP officer trying to dress down a military member?  For that you'd have us out of the USAF uniform?  Great Bog in Devon.

I think there's a lot more that goes on than gets reported to anyone regarding improper behavior in a CAP uniform, which is more likely to occur with any of the AF styles.   It just doesn't mean interacting with the military but the interaction that also goes on with the civilian population (that's why there's limits as to when/how long a CAP uniform can be worn and anyone observed outside those parameters needs to be looked at very carefully).

Personally I joined CAP to participate in Emergency Services/Radio Communications, and also agreed to do some supporting roles e.g Public Affairs (which I've been very fortunate to get the best TV media coverage in the wing (likely the only coverage))   Wear of AF type uniforms just was not a reason for why I joined CAP.  I think there needs to be a delicate balance of "distinctiveness"  in the wear of AF type uniform by adult members and very good supervision of them when they wear these uniforms. 

RM

You are absolutely ridiculous. I am happy you did not list your name online, if I met you and we didn't talk about uniforms, I might think you are a decent CAP member. If someone is too illiterate to read a service tape/does not read english, than that falls on them. There are people out there that I have met who thought a bunch of ANG guys were Sailors, and I have met someone when my squadron went to DC who thought we were part of the Navy too. Does that mean the USAF should make all of their uniforms say "AIR FORCE AIR FORCE AIR FORCE" across the chest, color the uniform red and gray, and put safety vest over it? Back when the Army, Air Force, Navy, and Coast Guard all wore the same uniform, the BDU's, you would actually have to read the service tape to figure out who was with what. Unlike how it takes two to fight, it only takes one person to be confused.