Someone enlighten me

[Salty]

What has happened within CAP in the past 16 years that causes anybody not affiliated with the cadet program to be viewed with suspicion if they take an interest in the cadet program?  If SMs aren't supposed to give a crap about the cadet program, then why have the program at all?

Don't get me wrong.  I remember the disdain most of the SMs in my squadron had towards me and the other cadets in my squadron but we were tolerated because without us the squadron would've lost the airplane.

I just find it bizarre that people would be surprised that a former cadet would have an interest in what's going on with the cadet program. 

I guess once you turn SM, the cadets become persona non gratis.

[tsrup]

Sound like someone had a bad night at a meeting. 


I certainly wouldn't mind another senior taking an interest in what the cadets are doing, but bear in mind that "taking an interest" can turn into "stepping on toes" rather quickly.   One is okay, the other is annoying, especially when there is an abundance of "When I was a cadet..." involved.

[Salty]

Nah, not a bad meeting.  It's just something I've observed since turning SM back in 1994.

[RiverAux]

Could you provide some examples? 

[a2capt]

With the original poster using the term "tolerated" in the context, I do have to wonder ...

But typically, outside/new makes GoB Networks feel threatened.

[coudano]

It just depends on how it's being perceived,
Inquisitiveness can sometimes be viewed as a threat, "what do you REALLY want" when you are just asking about something

Sometimes people get possessive of their programs, and thus defensive,
so offered "help" gets viewed as a threat, "do i have to share my little kingdom with you if you get involved"

Sometimes it's just good ole revenge,
Ever burned the people in question before?  Maybe they are burning back now...


Personally, I take EVERY show of interest or request for information about the CP by ANY senior member seriously,
I try very hard to tag anyone who shows any interest with a job
And generally I try to make sure that I leave every request for information or interest in involvement "in the other person's court"
meaning that I always try to walk away from any interaction such that the next move is on the other person (not on me)
that way they are the ones deciding where it goes next, and they aren't waiting around for me for something

[Salty]

There just seems to be a disconnect between the two membership groups.  It's a feeling more than anything else.

As far as examples go, I've been asked why I was interested in the cadet program since I wasn't a parent or directly involved with the cadet program.

I have no desire to run the cadet program or offer any advice.  I just like to know what's going on in my squadron and that includes the cadet program.  To me that's just as important as safety, AE and ES.

[Stonewall]

I come off as an arrogant a-hole a lot of the time.  I have had to, for many years in CAP, make a conscious effort to project a genuine image that says "I'm here to help, really" and do my best to not come across as someone trying to steal thunder, step on toes, overtake command or tell someone their program sucks. 

As an example, I will be going to a CAP meeting this Thursday for the first time in almost 3 years.  I'm hoping to go in under the radar and act as if I'm simply checking in to say "hi" and see if there's room for me.  I thought about wearing the blue embroidered polo but man, I really can't bring myself to wear that thing.  So I'm wearing the UOD (blues) with my GT and CP badges.  No military stuff and no ribbons.  It's kind of hard to hide the fact that you're a Lt Col, so that's not an option. 

I have been given looks in the past that clearly say "who the hell are you and what are your intentions with my squadron", when I genuinely just want a small part-time position so I can help out cadets.  I've been a DCC and CC, and I'm not ready for much more than monitoring PT tests or driving cadets to NCSA boards.

I get what you're saying, Salty.  I get that attitude a lot more often than not. 

[coudano]

I thought about wearing the blue embroidered polo but man, I really can't bring myself to wear that thing.

Get up in some decent grey pants (not old-man slacks) and some cool shades...
Try it before you knock it  

It's kind of hard to hide the fact that you're a Lt Col, so that's not an option.

Golf shirt does that for you too

Infact I /specifically/ wear the golf shirt when training cadets, because the Lt Col elbow deep in mentoring cadet NCO's looks more than a little funny, particularly to military passers by.  There is basically no situation ever where you would see any Lt Col doing that sort of thing (and quite few actually where you would see *ANY* commissioned officer doing it).  However in a professional looking golf shirt combo i'm more of 'obviously' "an adult instructor".

[Salty]

That's a really good tip.

[RiverAux]

Infact I /specifically/ wear the golf shirt when training cadets, because the Lt Col elbow deep in mentoring cadet NCO's looks more than a little funny, particularly to military passers by.  There is basically no situation ever where you would see any Lt Col doing that sort of thing (and quite few actually where you would see *ANY* commissioned officer doing it).  However in a professional looking golf shirt combo i'm more of 'obviously' "an adult instructor".

It seems that most seniors involved in the cadet program take the opposite view -- having a senior member wearing the military-style uniform (either AF-style or CAP) and looking sharp provides a better role model than someone in a polo shirt.  I think the cadets are smart enough to know the weirdness of the CAP-grade system and know that what a Lt. Col. in CAP does is far different than a Lt. Col. in the military. 

Not saying your approach is wrong though.  Whatever works.

[coudano]

It seems that most seniors involved in the cadet program take the opposite view

I agree it's what MOST senior members do.
But I like to think of myself as a bit of a rebel

-- having a senior member wearing the military-style uniform (either AF-style or CAP) and looking sharp provides a better role model than someone in a polo shirt.

See, it's not the senior members' "role" to role model uniform wear to the cadets.  (of course you are always being watched)
But I want my cadet NCO's to be already /proficient/ in uniform wear,
and I want my phase 1 cadets looking first, and primarily, at their NCO's for how to wear uniform, not to me.

I think the cadets are smart enough to know the weirdness of the CAP-grade system and know that what a Lt. Col. in CAP does is far different than a Lt. Col. in the military.

We meet at an armory, at a BN HQ.  We also use a state HQ on a semi regular basis, and some activities on a base, and a decent portion of our parents and visitors are military or former military.
and there are a lot of uniformed people coming and going on a pretty regular basis.
I'm not worried about my cadets being confused (sort of, though CAP does more to contaminate cadets perception of reality in this regard, than it does to help it)
I'm worried about military passers by being confused.
**But REALLY it's about the philosophical reasons above.

Not saying your approach is wrong though.  Whatever works.

Come ask my cadets anytime you want, a few questions:
1)  Is there /any/ doubt about my professionalism, or authority, though I only wear corporates?
2)  Is there any deficit in my ability to mentor cadet nco's and cadet officers because I wear only corporates?
3)  Do we have a vibrant and effective cadet program, even though the senior members all only wear corporates?

[Stonewall]

Reference the wearing of Lt Col, I meant that wearing it would identify that I wasn't a new guy and that I had more than a couple of years under my CAP blues belt.

Reference the wearing of blues, that's just how I was raised.  I'm not offended by people wearing the polo shirts, it's just not me.  As a cadet programs senior member, I grew up wearing the UOD; what the cadets were wearing.

[Spaceman3750]

I certainly wouldn't mind another senior taking an interest in what the cadets are doing, but bear in mind that "taking an interest" can turn into "stepping on toes" rather quickly.   One is okay, the other is annoying, especially when there is an abundance of "When I was a cadet..." involved.

I echo tsrup's statements. We've had 7 new senior members come in this past year, all of them parents of cadets. While I think that's a very good thing, I've been working to keep all of the new seniors in their box so to speak and out of the cadet program if they're not in a duty that involves cadets. One night I overheard my PAO/R&R Officer and Personnel Officer discussing how they were going to set up a mentor program for new cadets - I was very quick to interject "You really need to talk to the CDC before doing any of this."

If a senior member comes to me and says "I'd really like to get involved in helping with the cadet program" they get listed in cadet programs and a CP-related duty assignment (after talking with the CDC and CC) and they are expected to attend the next TLC. I don't appreciate the senior cadre trying to interlope on the cadet program any more than I appreciate cadets interloping on the senior staff. If you want to be involved with CP, we will get you the proper training and duty assignment, but unless you're willing to commit to that keep handing out flyers and processing 2a's (incidental involvement not withstanding, such as the AEO giving an aerospace lesson - there's a difference between having a tangential connection with cadets and being involved in cadet program management or operation).

It's not that they're viewed with suspicion, we just try to keep things organized.