Major and above not able to take SOS at Air University

[SamFranklin]

PD courses are tickets you punch to get promoted.

That may be your view, but I disagree that that is how the system is designed.

One would hope that students attend PD courses because they are trying to find new ways of contributing more effectively to the CAP mission. Considering that we're talking about courses whose subject matter is professionalism, it's ironic that you see the courses as a"tickets you punch." That's a terribly impoverished view.

Properly understood, PD activities do not lead to promotions and awards -- that's backwards.  Rather, CAP shows its appreciation to volunteers who make a commitment to professionalism by recognizing those members via the promotions and awards system. You won't find that written down in any regulation, but the basic concept of "professionalism" tells us it has to be this way and not the other. 

[tonyairplane]

I heard from someone at Wing HQ that this has been fixed, CAP Majors may be accepted in this course now.

[SAR-EMT1]

I heard from someone at Wing HQ that this has been fixed, CAP Majors may be accepted in this course now.

With proof of a BA / BS degree.

[BuckeyeDEJ]

One would hope that students attend PD courses because they are trying to find new ways of contributing more effectively to the CAP mission. Considering that we're talking about courses whose subject matter is professionalism, it's ironic that you see the courses as a"tickets you punch." That's a terribly impoverished view.

And I took SOS because it offered a different take. It showed me better what Ma Blue does, and that process is far better thought out and implemented than CAP's. We'd do well to incorporate elements of SOS and other AF PME into our senior training program. We might even cultivate better leaders. Instead, we have a penchant for reinventing the wheel every chance we get, rather than use existing doctrine and training (to eliminate inefficiencies) to make us better. I dare say the Organizational Excellence track would be better served with AFSO21.

After nearly three decades in CAP, going back to when I joined as a cadet in 1984, I had a fairly good grasp on how CAP does things. Region Staff College likely would be a waste of time for me, as a result, other than to punch a ticket. SOS opened the windows to new ways to solve problems, more thinking about what makes leaders good leaders and how best to motivate troops, and even some contemplation about how different cultures interact -- and yes, that impacts CAP, too.

Don't just do SOS for the promotion. Do it because it will make you more capable. The promotion will come, at least if you have the right people in your corner and can somehow stay out of the politics. But know that it will make you more valuable.

[DBlair]

Personally, I plan on taking the AF PME (SOS/ACSC/AWC) route rather than CAP RSC/NSC route as I find the AF route to be of much more benefit.

I've found that in many cases, the real/greatest benefit of CAP courses is not the course materials, but rather the networking beyond your usual squadron/local area. There are some CAP courses that have made me roll my eyes at this being taken seriously as a course, but then, the face-time with key people and the networking opportunities in general are what seem to make up for the lacking course curriculum. Even if not trying to get on the fast track within CAP, meeting and interacting with other members and key people allows for increased perspectives (etc) has a certain level of benefit. That said, I won't be spending the money or time away from work on RSC or NSC, or at least not anytime soon.

Regarding some of the other comments in this thread, I would agree that CAP PD courses are largely seen/presented as spoon-fed 'checking the box' courses rather than on courses really providing much educational benefit (exception being the TLC course, possibly others), and is something I see as a problem.

As long as the member shows up, I don't think I've ever seen anyone not pass a CAP PD course. This sets an organizational tone and part of why these courses aren't taken seriously by many. Contributing factors for low course quality involve low standards/expectations, instructors who themselves may be lacking in knowledge, experience, etc, and a variety of other possible factors. Perhaps raising the standard on PD courses is something to consider.



Question relating to original thread topic...

If a Captain is currently enrolled in SOS, but will soon (awaiting paperwork) be promoted to Lt Col, will he be allowed to finish SOS without issue, or will he be pulled from the course?

[MSG Mac]

b]Question relating to original thread topic...[/b]

If a Captain is currently enrolled in SOS, but will soon (awaiting paperwork) be promoted to Lt Col, will he be allowed to finish SOS without issue, or will he be pulled from the course?

If you've aleady been accepted, you'tr golden

[SAR-EMT1]

b]Question relating to original thread topic...[/b]

If a Captain is currently enrolled in SOS, but will soon (awaiting paperwork) be promoted to Lt Col, will he be allowed to finish SOS without issue, or will he be pulled from the course?

If you've aleady been accepted, you'tr golden

Honestly it is a toss up, however, regardless of whether or not he is pulled from SOS, he would most likely be ineligible for ACSC ( Due to rank) and therefore be barred from both ACSC and hence AWC. ( A method around this is to enroll in the USN correspondence program ) 

[DBlair]

b]Question relating to original thread topic...[/b]

If a Captain is currently enrolled in SOS, but will soon (awaiting paperwork) be promoted to Lt Col, will he be allowed to finish SOS without issue, or will he be pulled from the course?

If you've aleady been accepted, you'tr golden

Honestly it is a toss up, however, regardless of whether or not he is pulled from SOS, he would most likely be ineligible for ACSC ( Due to rank) and therefore be barred from both ACSC and hence AWC. ( A method around this is to enroll in the USN correspondence program )

CAP members are allowed to enroll in the USN correspondence programs?

[SAR-EMT1]

b]Question relating to original thread topic...[/b]

If a Captain is currently enrolled in SOS, but will soon (awaiting paperwork) be promoted to Lt Col, will he be allowed to finish SOS without issue, or will he be pulled from the course?

If you've aleady been accepted, you'tr golden

Honestly it is a toss up, however, regardless of whether or not he is pulled from SOS, he would most likely be ineligible for ACSC ( Due to rank) and therefore be barred from both ACSC and hence AWC. ( A method around this is to enroll in the USN correspondence program )

CAP members are allowed to enroll in the USN correspondence programs?

Yes, with a very few provisos. CAPTALK has several current members that have enrolled in the USN DL program at one time or another.  ... Just expect all coursework to be Masters/Doctorate level material.

[fyrfitrmedic]

b]Question relating to original thread topic...[/b]

If a Captain is currently enrolled in SOS, but will soon (awaiting paperwork) be promoted to Lt Col, will he be allowed to finish SOS without issue, or will he be pulled from the course?

If you've aleady been accepted, you'tr golden

Honestly it is a toss up, however, regardless of whether or not he is pulled from SOS, he would most likely be ineligible for ACSC ( Due to rank) and therefore be barred from both ACSC and hence AWC. ( A method around this is to enroll in the USN correspondence program )

CAP members are allowed to enroll in the USN correspondence programs?

Yes, with a very few provisos. CAPTALK has several current members that have enrolled in the USN DL program at one time or another.  ... Just expect all coursework to be Masters/Doctorate level material.

I remember seeing this mentioned quite some time ago, but don't remember seeing any info on how it's done... of course, I may have missed something obvious.

[SAR-EMT1]

As I remember O-Rex was the first CAP'r to participate. I will see if I can get hold of him to share his recollections.

[SAR-EMT1]

O-Rex
Salty & Seasoned Contributor
Re: Navy DL Program
« Sent to: SAR-EMT1 on: Today at 03:53:48 PM »
Quote from: SAR-EMT1 on Today at 03:14:46 PM

    Sir,
    Recently a member in the Membership boards was asking for information regarding CAP partaking in the Navy DL program. It is my understanding that you are a graduate of one of their programs, and was hoping you could post a quick paragraph about the program and your experiences.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I'm about 75% through the program, took a 2 year hiatus because life happens.  When I signed up for the program, Navy admissions actually contacted CAP NHQ to ensure that I was who I said I was, and verified that I was a college grad.  completed 3 of 4 courses, they are in blackboard format and there are time constraints on submissions, its GRADUATE level work, so there are a lot of mini-papers, and even the open-book exams are no pushover.

If anyone is so inclined and motivated, its a great course.  It especially worked for me as I subsequently joined the CGAUX, and the whole Naval thing helped me assimilate the organizational culture a little quicker.


---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

PS: Graduates of the DL program are eligible to attend graduation ceremonies if they so desire.
ALSO: Completion can result in a masters. 
- Edgar

[SARDOC]

now if you can reply back to him and find out the process for enrollment...this sounds like an interesting opportunity

[SAR-EMT1]

 would warn anyone thinking of enrolling in this program in the HIGHEST possible terms:

1) CAP is VERY new to the project officers of this course (O-Rex is the first CAP member to ever be allowed in)

2) Dis-enrollment of a CAP member from this program mid-semester for any reason could result in the permanent revocation
of our ability for future CAP officers to enroll in this program. - O-Rex took a break at the end of a semester-
( Any Naval Officer that is dropped mid-term receives a strong admonishment in his service jacket )     

3) Any applicant must already possess a BA/BS, have completed SOS or equivalent (This course is the Navy equal of ACSC) and transcripts from your college and the Air Force / Army etc... must be forwarded prior to acceptance in the program.

A  GPA of 3.0 or higher during your BA/BS work is HIGHLY recommended. - The material is heavy on science and paper writing. It is definitely graduate level material.

[RiverAux]

What courses do they have that would be of benefit to CAP members?

[SAR-EMT1]

What courses do they have that would be of benefit to CAP members?

In the general sense, the course espouses leadership, management and communication skills.
In terms of direct benefit, that is for you to decide. River, being dual hatted you might especially like this course.

[DBlair]

This seems *very* interesting.

[Buzz]

One could also spin this as the AF saying that CAP Majors are equivalent to AF Majors   

I can't think of any faster way to get this problem resolved than to make that suggestion OFFICIALLY.

[Airborne Medic]

If your having issues enrolling in the SOC I'd call Air University myself if I were you.  I take AU courses using my position as an Army officer all the time and that always causes a hiccup with their system because I am taking courses that are usually reserved for enlisted ranks so I just give them a call and the problem is fixed.  They are very easy to talk with and quiet helpful.

[O-Rex]

Sure, a lot of the content does not apply to CAP, but a big takeaway from Military PME courses is the is the opportunity to receive quality instruction and to understand how our patron service works.  There is nothing more satisfying than being able to interact with USAF with the ability to "speak their language" and give them the impression that there are actually members who 'get it."  It certainly offsets some of the times that RM personnel groan when they see CAP members coming (I've actually seen this.)

Perhaps if more CAP members completed SOS/ACSC/AWC we could eventually bridge the widening cultural gap between CAP and USAF.