US/Canada border patrols

[alice]

Saw today on AvWeb items about the new USAF and other agency patrols of the US/Canadian border. http://www.avweb.com/eletter/archives/avflash/783-full.html#194211
No mention of CAP there.  Is CAP involved in the joint agency effort or not?  If so, what are we doing? 

If not.... how come University of North Dakota is active in this and CAP is not?

Alice

[bosshawk]

Alice: fancy seeing you show up on this blog.  You might contact Dave Coppom for one answer to your question.  He was flying the Idaho border last summer through the CD program.  Have no idea how often nor how successfully.  I saw the deal in the paper this AM about the stationing of UAVs at Grand Forks and the anticipated TFRs that will result.

Anyone from the Northern Tier have anything to add?

[DNall]

I'm just guessing, but I think CAP is not yet involved, but will work our way in rapidly. Canada border is less political so you can do things there to set precedent for down here & prove you're not just being racist or whatever. Nice to see the policy experiment running though. Think you're going to find in the long-run that daylight visual search is not so much what's in demand, & that border patrol Cessnas have Flir hanging off them.

[smj58501]

Saw today on AvWeb items about the new USAF and other agency patrols of the US/Canadian border. http://www.avweb.com/eletter/archives/avflash/783-full.html#194211
No mention of CAP there.  Is CAP involved in the joint agency effort or not?  If so, what are we doing? 

If not.... how come University of North Dakota is active in this and CAP is not?

Alice

UND has one of the finest (if not the finest) aerospace training programs available (yes, I am a proud alum.... Go Fighting Sioux!). Partly because of this, they did receive some type of federal funds to do UAV research. Also, the ND Air National Guard based in Fargo will be switching to the Predator UAV mission (the F-16's are being shipped out of state... ironically today is the last flyover). From what I understand, the UAV's will be launched out of the Grand Forks AFB by the active component guys/ gals, and then control will be "thrown" to ANG controllers in Fargo. This is as far as I want to go... I don't have the rest of the specifics to share and I don't want to speculate. If folks are interested, I can contact some friends on the ANG side for more info.

As far as CAP involvement, its a good question. I would love it if someone could break us off a piece of that action (and like anything worthwhile, you sometimes just need to make your own luck). Thx for the post.... I will ask the question of my CoC.

[RiverAux]

One of the biggest overall threats to CAP's ES involvement are these Homeland Security Air Wings.  They're using the same planes and techniques as us and are in the same department as FEMA and the other agencies that might give us business.  Sure, they're wildly more expensive but anyone who thinks the feds worry much about that is nuts.  If DHS has the option of giving a mission to one of their Air Wings or to CAP, they are going to give it to their own folks.  Yes, it will cost more, but having the mission justifies asking Congress for more money. 

These HLS Air Wings will continue to spread along the borders and will cut CAP out entirely of those missions and over time have a huge potential to cut CAP out of large-scale disaster missions and perhaps all other light-aircraft HLS missions we're doing now. 

Be very afraid.

[alice]

Yes, the growing UAV missions and regular patrol  missions where other civilian flyers are involved is something CAP just *cannot* ignore.  Most of the active border or HLS missions I'm aware of that CAP does came about largely through flukes, plus intense and sustained volunteer organizing and agen cy liaison efforts at wing level.

Years ago, I had some interesting meetings with INS officials working the US/North Dakota border while doing legal work for migrants.   Am wondering if things are still rather casual there.  Old local joke about that border:  the only thing between USA and the Arctic Circle is a barbed wire fence, if anything.  INS officials told all of us in the legal biz not to bother trying to figure out if a green card is legit.  There are so many different types out there, if one has an "A" number and the correct gender, accept it.  I recall a handout from INS of over 20 pages of each type of legit green card.
I also recall how someone walking south on the interstate highway through Grand Forks, in Winter, made the local newspaper for his entire trip for at least a week.  Any strangers really stick out there.

And, very sorry to hear Fargo ANG is going to UAVs.  The Happy Houligans were the first over the Pentagon on 9/11.  I just can't see replacing all their needed missions with UAVs.

Alice

[afgeo4]

Interesting... I've heard that CAP IS doing these missions.  At least I've heard that NY Wing may be doing it. Another coincidence... the NY ANG's 174th Fighter Wing in Syracuse, NY will also be transitioning from the F-16 to the Predator. From what I understand, it will be the armed version (dunno if it will be the prop 1 or the jet 2 version).

Anyone know what the cost of operationg a Predator per hour is? I bet it's much higher than any Cessna no matter who flies it.