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Author Topic: FAA Safety NOTAM  (Read 3876 times)
BillB
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 1,985

« on: September 23, 2011, 07:53:33 PM »

Earlier today FAA came out with a NOTAM

 
Quote
FAA Safety Team | Safer Skies Through Education
Urgent Airmen Notification - Satellite Re-entry
Notice Number: NOTC3252


Until September 26, 2011
U.S. airspace and territories
 
Specific instructions and restrictions are available from normal NOTAM sites and local air traffic facilities.

*For the latest information, call your local Flight Service Station at 1-800-WX-BRIEF.
   

 So if doing Sacnner training look UP not down
« Last Edit: September 23, 2011, 08:56:32 PM by MIKE » Logged
Gil Robb Wilson # 19
Gil Robb Wilson # 104
bosshawk
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Posts: 1,588

« Reply #1 on: September 23, 2011, 08:33:53 PM »

Having worked in the satellite business for more years than I like to admit, I have a couple of pointed questions for the FAA.

What are the chances of seeing a piece of space junk re-entering at some speed upwards of 18,000 MPH?

If you happen to see one, which part of a milisecond do you have to do anything about it?

If it should happen to hit your airplane, whom do you call?  Outside of God?

Seems to me that this notice is a perfect example of the FAA playing CYA.
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Paul M. Reed
Col, USA(ret)
Former CAP Lt Col
Wilson #2777
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« Reply #2 on: September 23, 2011, 08:40:11 PM »

It would make an awesome 78!
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Major Lord
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Posts: 1,817

« Reply #3 on: September 23, 2011, 09:07:20 PM »

What? A pilot who believes he cannot out-maneuver a supersonic burst of metallic plasma in a 172? ( Maybe our beloved safety officers should create a check list in the event you are instantaneously vaporized from space) I just hope it lands in the ocean where we can see it or on the headquarters of the Amway Corporation.....It could be a heck of a light show in the right circumstances.

Major Lord
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"The path of the righteous man is beset on all sides by the iniquities of the selfish and the tyranny of evil men. Blessed is he, who in the name of charity and good will, shepherds the weak through the valley of darkness, for he is truly his brother's keeper and the finder of lost children. And I will strike down upon thee with great vengeance and furious anger those who would attempt to poison and destroy my brothers. And you will know my name is the Lord when I lay my vengeance upon thee."
bosshawk
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Posts: 1,588

« Reply #4 on: September 23, 2011, 09:22:40 PM »

Wait until one of your Safely Officers tries to use this one for a monthly brief.  Might become a contest to see how far a Safety Officer will bounce.
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Paul M. Reed
Col, USA(ret)
Former CAP Lt Col
Wilson #2777
dbaran
Member

Posts: 82
Unit: PCR-CA-110

« Reply #5 on: September 24, 2011, 12:23:17 AM »

In CA, we'll probably have to do mandatory safety briefings and ORM before every flight to check for falling satellites.  Oh wait ... new Wing commander...maybe we won't do that anymore.
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Spaceman3750
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« Reply #6 on: September 24, 2011, 12:29:33 AM »

Don't forget, they've got to hit the ground somewhere. I'm including "falling space debris" in my next ground team ORM.
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The moment any commander or staff member considers themselves a gatekeeper, instead of a facilitator, they have failed at their job.
I can't fix all of CAP's problems, but I can lead from the bottom by building my squadron as a center of excellence to serve as an example of what every unit can be.
Major Lord
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« Reply #7 on: September 24, 2011, 12:35:47 AM »

Don't forget, they've got to hit the ground somewhere. I'm including "falling space debris" in my next ground team ORM.

Well, if it made the dinosaurs extinct, just think of what it could do to a ground team! And let us not forget the concomitant dangers of Zombies created by radioactive space debris. You think that machete is on the GT TO&E for cutting firewood?

Major Lord
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"The path of the righteous man is beset on all sides by the iniquities of the selfish and the tyranny of evil men. Blessed is he, who in the name of charity and good will, shepherds the weak through the valley of darkness, for he is truly his brother's keeper and the finder of lost children. And I will strike down upon thee with great vengeance and furious anger those who would attempt to poison and destroy my brothers. And you will know my name is the Lord when I lay my vengeance upon thee."
Spaceman3750
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Posts: 2,609

« Reply #8 on: September 24, 2011, 12:42:06 AM »

Don't forget, they've got to hit the ground somewhere. I'm including "falling space debris" in my next ground team ORM.

Well, if it made the dinosaurs extinct, just think of what it could do to a ground team! And let us not forget the concomitant dangers of Zombies created by radioactive space debris. You think that machete is on the GT TO&E for cutting firewood?

Major Lord

Good morning all, my name is TFO Bagodoughnuts and I will be your GTL. Today's mission number is 11-M-1234 and our mission objective is a missing person. Our sortie will be to search the area in UTM grid 12345678. Weather is cloudy with a chance of zombies. >:D
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The moment any commander or staff member considers themselves a gatekeeper, instead of a facilitator, they have failed at their job.
I can't fix all of CAP's problems, but I can lead from the bottom by building my squadron as a center of excellence to serve as an example of what every unit can be.
JC004
[Insert Cool Title Here]
Global Moderator

Posts: 4,515

« Reply #9 on: September 24, 2011, 04:06:18 PM »

All done.

http://www.businessweek.com/news/2011-09-24/nasa-research-satellite-enters-earth-off-u-s-west-coast.html
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Ed Bos
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Unit: PCR-OR-001

« Reply #10 on: October 01, 2011, 06:26:51 PM »

Don't forget, they've got to hit the ground somewhere. I'm including "falling space debris" in my next ground team ORM.
If you put it on an ORM sheet, send it to me and I'll use it for the GTL school.  ;D
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EDWARD A. BOS, Lt Col, CAP
Email: e.bos(at)orwg.cap.gov
PCR-OR-001
JeffDG
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Posts: 3,157

« Reply #11 on: October 01, 2011, 06:51:45 PM »

This reminds me of once, back a few years, we were planning a server room move for a company to a new HQ.  This was a pretty big deal, actually...we were talking a couple million an hour for any downtime, and if their main ERP system was lost during the move, well...we were pretty much screwed.

Well, to lighten the mood during one of the risk assessment meetings, I made the mistake of mentioning that the move was happening during the time window that the Mir space station was supposed to come down, and similarly, it was a ballistic object with no maneuvering fuel left...

The risk ended up in the plan, with a mitigation strategy...the two mirror servers of the ERP system had to be put into separate trucks for the move, and the second one couldn't leave until the first had arrived safely at the new office....

For projects, I always categorize risks onto a two axis graph, with one axis being the probability, and one being the impact.  If a risk's impact is in the "catastrophic" impact category, we review it regardless of how low the probability axis sits.
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FlyTiger77
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Posts: 624

« Reply #12 on: October 01, 2011, 09:27:33 PM »

For projects, I always categorize risks onto a two axis graph, with one axis being the probability, and one being the impact.  If a risk's impact is in the "catastrophic" impact category, we review it regardless of how low the probability axis sits.

I would be interested in seeing one of your graphs. If you can, please email me one.

Thanks.
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JACK E. MULLINAX II, Lt Col, CAP
AirDX
Seasoned Member

Posts: 483
Unit: PCR-WI-049

« Reply #13 on: October 02, 2011, 04:49:09 PM »

Try this one on for size, in the NOTAMs this morning...  3 one gram objects?

FDC 1/4220 (A2004/11) - PART 1 OF 2 SPECIAL POTENTIAL FOREIGN OBJECTS AND
DEBRIS (FOD)
DUE TO POSSIBILITY OF UP TO THREE 1-GRAM PIECES OF DEBRIS FALLING
WITHIN AN AREA BOUNDED BY THE COORDINATES BELOW.
0500-1000 UTC DLY WEF 1110020500-1110041000 (OCT 1-3 1900-2400 HST
LOCAL)
LAT/LONG
22-10N/159-16W
22-13N/159-19W
22-14N/159-23W
22-14N/159-29W
22-13N/159-31W
22-14N/159-34W
22-11N/159-39W
22-09N/159-44W
22-06N/159-45W
22-04N/159-47W
22-01N/159-48W
22-00N/159-47W
22-10N/159-46W
22-05N/159-38W
22-06N/159-29W
END PART 1 OF 2. WIE UNTIL UFN. CREATED: 30 SEP 21:52 2011

 
FDC 1/4220 (A2004/11) - PART 2 OF 2 SPECIAL POTENTIAL FOREIGN OBJECTS AND
DEBRIS (FOD)
22-10N/159-18W
22-10N/159-16W
END PART 2 OF 2. WIE UNTIL UFN. CREATED: 30 SEP 21:52 2011

 
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Believe in fate, but lean forward where fate can see you.
SarDragon
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« Reply #14 on: October 02, 2011, 07:04:13 PM »

Well, Ek = (1/2) m v2 J. Kinetic energy

That gives us (1/2) .01 kg (7600 m/s)2 = 288.8 kJ for 1 gram mass at orbital velocity.

That's the same energy as a 1500 lb object moving at 65 mph. That should enable a small sized object to poke quite a hole in whatever it hits.
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Dave Bowles
Maj, CAP
AT1, USN Retired
Mitchell Award (unnumbered)
C/WO, CAP, Ret
davidsinn
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Unit: NW-IN

« Reply #15 on: October 02, 2011, 07:21:13 PM »

Well, Ek = (1/2) m v2 J. Kinetic energy

That gives us (1/2) .01 kg (7600 m/s)2 = 288.8 kJ for 1 gram mass at orbital velocity.

That's the same energy as a 1500 lb object moving at 65 mph. That should enable a small sized object to poke quite a hole in whatever it hits.

I highly doubt something with a mass of one gram could survive in the troposphere at orbital velocity.
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Former CAP Captain
David Sinn
JeffDG
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 3,157

« Reply #16 on: October 02, 2011, 07:25:30 PM »

Well, Ek = (1/2) m v2 J. Kinetic energy

That gives us (1/2) .01 kg (7600 m/s)2 = 288.8 kJ for 1 gram mass at orbital velocity.

That's the same energy as a 1500 lb object moving at 65 mph. That should enable a small sized object to poke quite a hole in whatever it hits.
Actually, one gram is .001 kg, reducing the kinetic energy to a 150 lb item
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PHall
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 5,864

« Reply #17 on: October 02, 2011, 09:13:18 PM »

Well, Ek = (1/2) m v2 J. Kinetic energy

That gives us (1/2) .01 kg (7600 m/s)2 = 288.8 kJ for 1 gram mass at orbital velocity.

That's the same energy as a 1500 lb object moving at 65 mph. That should enable a small sized object to poke quite a hole in whatever it hits.
Actually, one gram is .001 kg, reducing the kinetic energy to a 150 lb item

It'll still make a nice hole in YOU if it hits you. Even if you are wearing your hard hat!
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SarDragon
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Posts: 10,058
Unit: NAVAIRPAC

« Reply #18 on: October 02, 2011, 10:08:24 PM »

Well, Ek = (1/2) m v2 J. Kinetic energy

That gives us (1/2) .01 kg (7600 m/s)2 = 288.8 kJ for 1 gram mass at orbital velocity.

That's the same energy as a 1500 lb object moving at 65 mph. That should enable a small sized object to poke quite a hole in whatever it hits.
Actually, one gram is .001 kg, reducing the kinetic energy to a 150 lb item

OOPS!

Correct calculation:
(1/2) .001 kg (7600 m/s)2 = 28.88 kJ for 1 gram mass at orbital velocity.

@ David Sinn - there's still a substantial amount of energy for a small object, even of the speed is a couple of thousand miles an hour slower.

Here's a different comparison - a 40 grain (2.6 g) .22 LR bullet, with a velocity of 330 m/s, has an energy of 159 J.

I'm guessing that the objects are projected to have that 1 g mass after getting through most of the atmosphere.
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Dave Bowles
Maj, CAP
AT1, USN Retired
Mitchell Award (unnumbered)
C/WO, CAP, Ret
Al Sayre
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Posts: 2,512
Unit: SER-MS-001

Mississippi Wing
« Reply #19 on: October 03, 2011, 08:57:43 AM »

I guess the point is, that if you see a flaming mosquito size object heading at you at speeds approaching mach 3, get the heck out of the way...
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Lt Col Al Sayre
MS Wing Staff Dude
Admiral, Great Navy of the State of Nebraska
GRW #2787
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CAP Talk  |  Operations  |  Safety  |  Topic: FAA Safety NOTAM
 


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