OLD CAP RESOURCES

[SAR-EMT1]

I have read various histories of CAP: "THE CAP STORY", Flying Minutemen and one by C.B. Colby "this is your CAP" ??
Anyway, these books had all this fantastic info on old school CAP resources: dozens of electrical generators, trailers packed with shelter supplies, mobile kitchens, dozens of boats for flood work. Helicopters,Horse/JEEP/GLADEBUGGY SAR teams, Civil engineer trucks(for lack of better term: converted delivery trucks packed with the items one might find in an AF civil engineer unit- telephone cable, wiring, lumber, hammers, nails etc...) even CAP MASH UNITS!. (CAWG I think)The books leave the idea this stuff began disappearing circa 1960 and was all gone by 1980's. My question has 3 parts:
1. What was the true scope of CAPs resources back in the day.
2. Why did these items disappear? - GENERATORS AND A MASH UNIT WOULD HAVE BEEN GREAT IN NEW ORLEANS
3. After 9/11, Katrina etc. Has any talk been brought up suggesting how or if CAP can get some or all of these technologies back?

[BillB]

You're talking about a time when CAP regularly checked military surplus yeards. There was no central material disposition, so each Base, Post etc had their own surplus yard. And CAP regulary surveyed what was available. Vehicles, tents generators were all collected and put into use in CAP. Any CAP unit could check surplus and sign for what they wanted, then just turn in a report (may have been the form 37 of the time) on what was obtained. There was no restriction on types of vehicles or equipment obtained, in fact I know of one instance where two wrecked T-34's were obtained from surplus at Tyndall AFB and stripped of parts to make one flyable aircraft. The unit sold the scrap aluminum from the other for cash to buy new parts when needed.
In another case when an Air Force Reserve unit was deactivated, a 2 1/2 ton Communications truck was surplus and it was sent to a DoD facility for overhaul prior to the unit deactivation. Then the Reserve unit furnished CAP the serial number of the truck and all paperwork, so CAP picked it up the day it came out of maintainance and was declared surplus. The truck was used as a Comm truck until it was destroyed by Fire when parked next to a CAP building that burned down due to an electrical short in the ceiling wiring.
Also during this time frame, more use was made of member owned equipment such as the swamp buggies and airboats use in Florida and Louisiana.
What changed all this was the CAP insurance program for vehicles, the lack of logistics control by several Wings, and requiring that only the Wing Director (or equivlant) could scan or sign for surplus equipment. Prior to that Jeeps were fairly common in CAP units for ground search operations. Military radios were also very common in CAP, such as the old SCR-522 VHF radios which were used with base station power supplies. One Florida station used a surplus 1000 watt AM transmitter on the primary HF frequency as a net control station.
During the post Worl War II period, all CAP aiurcraft were USAF aircraft loaned to CAP. These carried standard USAF markings. To qualify to fly the USAF aircraft all that was needed was a PPL and an extensive check out by USAF check pilots. Any cadet or senior could be checked out and there was no such thing as "mission pilot". Any pilot could fly SAR missions, and oddly enough the accident rate was lower that the current accident rate with much higher qualifications.
So there were three reasons the resources dried up, the lack of post war equipment, and the mismanagement of the resources by CAP led to several restrictions on types of equipment CAP could obtain, and the method of obtaining it.

[mikeylikey]

Don't forget the fact that alot of the equipment may have found it's way to members basements or garages.  What changed were the laws regarding surplus, not to mention the shift from little monetary support to cap from AF in the 60's to what we have now.  I guess they figure we can buy our own junk with the appropriations. 

It is not at all impossible to get stuff DRMO today, except the system sucks.  First we have to call the CAP-USAF Region Logistics SGT.  Get his or her approval, and then work through Miss pasley at NHQ for her approval of his approval of what we want. Go to DRMO, fill out a seperate (HAND WRITTEN) from for each thing we want, fax to region logistics, get a signature and then have region logistics send by mail a letter saying we are allowed to take out what is listed on the form. 

I don't understand why CAP can not have access to the online DRMO (DLA) acquisition system.  WE can search for junk we need, print out the forms and get the required sigs if neccessary.  The whole thing is backwards, at a time when we can possibly cloth and equip every single CAP member in a matter of 2 months if we had better access to DRMO. 

Getting off subject, I would gather that if you did some investigating in your own Wings, you could probably find stockpiles of old equiment or new equipment just sitting around.  Get the lazy but Logistics Officers moving around and take what you need!   

[RiverAux]

Any pilot could fly SAR missions, and oddly enough the accident rate was lower that the current accident rate with much higher qualifications.

I got to throw the flag on that one.  Overall aircraft accident rates have dropped significantly since the 1940s/1950s and I have a very hard time believing that CAP's accident rate over that period has done the same thing.  Even over the last 20-30 years GA accident rates have dropped almost in half. 

[badger bob]

It is not at all impossible to get stuff DRMO today, except the system sucks.  First we have to call the CAP-USAF Region Logistics SGT. 

Correct for uniforms. Equipment requires approval from the CAP side-KC Jones

Go to DRMO, fill out a separate (HAND WRITTEN) from for each thing we want, fax to region logistics, get a signature and then have region logistics send by mail a letter saying we are allowed to take out what is listed on the form. 

Check with your DRMO. The system is changing that is phasing out hand processed (fax) requisitions in favor of all on line (Milstrip) requisitions.

I don't understand why CAP can not have access to the on line DRMO (DLA) acquisition system.  WE can search for junk we need, print out the forms and get the required sigs if neccessary.  The whole thing is backwards, at a time when we can possibly cloth and equip every single CAP member in a matter of 2 months if we had better access to DRMO. 

Could not agree with you more. Our current process is so time consuming that almost any other agency beats CAP to the requisition of any desireable equipment. The DRMO has a working model two levels of approval that will work like the on-line personnel form. The authorized logistics officer will input his requisition. NHQ Logistics well receive the form electronically with a email notification to approve. Upon his approval, CAP/USAF would receive a email notification for the on-line approval. Two clicks of a mouse and the requisition is issued to the DRMO

Problems I believe they are still working on
1. The consolidated DRMO system means 44 wings do not have a major DRMO in their home state
2. CAP currently has one authorized DOD accounting code but 52 wings, National and regional headquarters and various other national training facilities.
3. How do you control everything from one location, but have 52 wings wanting things shipped to 52 different locations
4. CAP members aren't always sensitive to the congressional mandate for the Air Force to provide accountability for equipment and money they furnish CAP. Every time we take a step forward, we have some clown that wants to sell equipment on EBAY because he thinks no one will care.

[SAR-EMT1]

My questions were geared specifically toward items that would be of use in a disaster area: mobile generators, boats, a CAP *MASH* unit (it would be amazing if we could get that back) etc...
After 9/11-Katrina etc. Is there ANY possibility of getting any items of this nature back in our inventory? Example: WIWG has an RV that has been converted to a mobile Mission base/comm station.

[badger bob]

My questions were geared specifically toward items that would be of use in a disaster area: mobile generators, boats, a CAP *MASH* unit (it would be amazing if we could get that back) etc...

Short Answer..Yes, No, Maybe

The following may be requested with your wing commanders authorization
Portable Generators are in the Supply Table of Allowances (TOA) #75
Field Kitchen TOA #89
Base Camp Tent GP Medium TOA #67
AC trailer for GP Tent TOA #97
Water (Bufalo) Tank  TOA #104

My experience is if it fits your CAP mission, and your wing commander approves, NHQ will also approve.

Boats are usually not needed by CAP (Maybe Coast Guard) so they are less likely to be approved, But Alaska may need a snow mobile, Florida may need a airboat, Arizona may need off road vehicles, etc. etc.
Think about who is qualified to use it, who will maintain it, and who will store and deploy it.


Field Hospitals are not within CAPs mission. Maybe someday in the future if things keep changing.

Communications is within CAP's mission capabilities

[fyrfitrmedic]

My questions were geared specifically toward items that would be of use in a disaster area: mobile generators, boats, a CAP *MASH* unit (it would be amazing if we could get that back) etc...

Short Answer..Yes, No, Maybe

The following may be requested with your wing commanders authorization
Portable Generators are in the Supply Table of Allowances (TOA) #75
Field Kitchen TOA #89
Base Camp Tent GP Medium TOA #67
AC trailer for GP Tent TOA #97
Water (Bufalo) Tank  TOA #104

WIWAC, my home unit had all of the above except a water buffalo. We also had two deuces to haul the stuff around. Picking up ES skills was the best way to get out of permanent kitchen duty 

[badger bob]

We also had two deuces to haul the stuff around

Rumor is that NHQ has put the kibosh on the old deuce and a half and they are no longer authorized for CAP use.

Gets into commercial drivers license issues as well as a few other problems

[SarDragon]

We also had two deuces to haul the stuff around

Rumor is that NHQ has put the kibosh on the old deuce and a half and they are no longer authorized for CAP use.

Gets into commercial drivers license issues as well as a few other problems

Not rumour. Fact.

d. Types of vehicles not permitted to be owned by CAP will be determined by NHQ. Vehicles not permitted to be owned by CAP include, but are not limited to:
1) Buses
2) Water trailers
3) Humvees
4) Deuce and half (2 1/2 ton vehicles or larger)
5) Boats
6) ATVs

Having been associated with 1) and 4), I can say that they were maintenance hogs, and had licensing and drivability issues.

Remember, they are in DRMO for a reason, usually because they have become uneconomical to maintain. As for other items, the unserviceability issue remains.

[fyrfitrmedic]

We also had two deuces to haul the stuff around

Rumor is that NHQ has put the kibosh on the old deuce and a half and they are no longer authorized for CAP use.

Gets into commercial drivers license issues as well as a few other problems

That happened a number of years ago...