Benefits of CAP

[mclarke]

I could not find a thread for this, and hope this is the right discussion board, but here is something I thought useful. List some of the "Secret" benefits of CAP.

Example: I was reading threw all the threads and came across the fact we can use the Pentagon Federal. Interesting...

Any others out there to be shared? Other than what Nation gives us.

[bosshawk]

Sorry to throw cold water on your topic, but anyone can be a member of the Pentagon Federal Credit Union: it is a commercial credit union.  I have been a member since 1960.

[bosshawk]

OOPS: I misspoke.  You have to be a member of a long laundry list of organizations and mililtary services.  It just looks like anyone can join.  Didn't see CAP on the list, but it may be.

Still a good credit union .

[RiverAux]

The last time I looked CAP wasn't there.  I joined based on CG Aux membership. 

[Spaceman3750]

I thought I saw us on that list at one point. I wonder if we were eligible for membership at one point and aren't any more?

In any event, you can join based on AFA membership which is open to everyone.

[NC Hokie]

To expand on bosshawk's comments, I'm finding that it's not unusual to see "CAP benefits" offered to the general public. There's a long thread devoted to the CAP cellular phone benefit, and I've recently found out that the Academy of Model Aeronautics now offers free membership to ALL youth, not just CAP cadets as a recent blog about the MOU between the two organizations suggests.

For the record, I don't think that NHQ is consciously misleading the membership about any of these benefits.  Instead, I suspect that they just pass on these offers without looking to see if there's anything really special about them, as nobody really wants to look a gift horse in the mouth.

[mclarke]

I thought I saw us on that list at one point. I wonder if we were eligible for membership at one point and aren't any more?

In any event, you can join based on AFA membership which is open to everyone.

I was just on there today, however, I am waiting to join another week. I want to see what they have to offer and give myself time to compare, however, yes, CAP is on the list of eligible members.

Also, this was on another thread from a while back, however, I thought it would be cool to see what other benefits members have since discovered and could share them here.

[Stonewall]

Oakley Government Sales.  <<---Click there.

Yes, even CAP members can get special discounts on Oakley stuff, up to 70% off.  Lots of people have done it.  You can too!

[Spaceman3750]

I thought I saw us on that list at one point. I wonder if we were eligible for membership at one point and aren't any more?

In any event, you can join based on AFA membership which is open to everyone.

I was just on there today, however, I am waiting to join another week. I want to see what they have to offer and give myself time to compare, however, yes, CAP is on the list of eligible members.

Also, this was on another thread from a while back, however, I thought it would be cool to see what other benefits members have since discovered and could share them here.

It looks like CAP is listed under the employer section. Whether that applies to members/volunteers or not I don't know. They're not on the military association list.

It's pretty sad that we've become so corporate that we're listed under companies instead of military associations like CG Aux.

[Eclipse]

It's pretty sad that we've become so corporate that we're listed under companies instead of military associations like CG Aux.

I'd be willing to bet that this is only for NHQ employees and perhaps wing admins and the like, not intended for the general membership.

[RADIOMAN015]

I could not find a thread for this, and hope this is the right discussion board, but here is something I thought useful. List some of the "Secret" benefits of CAP.

Example: I was reading threw all the threads and came across the fact we can use the Pentagon Federal. Interesting...

Any others out there to be shared? Other than what Nation gives us.

Well I would sincerely hope that Joe or Jane wanna bee isn't trolling around in their CAP uniforms (especially BDU's) and accepting discounts from anyone, because they think they are dealing with military personnel .  It's important that CAP members take it upon themselves to ensure any establishment knows that they are CIVIL Air Patrol, official Aux of USAF and not in the military.

I think Home Depot will allow discounts for CAP as an organization IF the appropriate EIN# and form is signed by a responsible/authorized individual.  I do know that for military/retired military/military dependents that a discount is received upon presentation of a valid military related ID card.
RM

[JeffDG]

RM, are you sure?  I wasn't aware that we were the CIVIL Air Patrol, I always thought it was the Civil Air Patrol.

What does CIVIL stand for, as that's normal nomenclature for acronyms.

[raivo]

RM, are you sure?  I wasn't aware that we were the CIVIL Air Patrol, I always thought it was the Civil Air Patrol.

What does CIVIL stand for, as that's normal nomenclature for acronyms.

... seriously?

[Stearmann4]

CAP membership will allow you to join most any military flying club:o)

Mike-

[RADIOMAN015]

RM, are you sure?  I wasn't aware that we were the CIVIL Air Patrol, I always thought it was the Civil Air Patrol.

What does CIVIL stand for, as that's normal nomenclature for acronyms.

Try this:   Civil Air Patrol ----  I think it means that members are civilians
RM

[Eclipse]

RM, are you sure?  I wasn't aware that we were the CIVIL Air Patrol, I always thought it was the Civil Air Patrol.

What does CIVIL stand for, as that's normal nomenclature for acronyms.

Try this:   Civil Air Patrol ----  I think it means that members are civilians

Cite please.

[RADIOMAN015]

RM, are you sure?  I wasn't aware that we were the CIVIL Air Patrol, I always thought it was the Civil Air Patrol.

What does CIVIL stand for, as that's normal nomenclature for acronyms.

Try this:   Civil Air Patrol ----  I think it means that members are civilians

Cite please.

Air Force Instruction 10-2701, para 1-3 and attachment #1 para A1.3.
RM

[SarDragon]

I think you both are arguing for argument's sake.

Yes, CAP as an organization is civilian. Individually, as members, we may or not be civilians in our non-CAP lives. Thirteen of my CAP membership years were while I was on active duty in the Navy.

Now, can we discontinue the urination competition, and return to our benefits discussion?

[Major Carrales]

I think you both are arguing for argument's sake.

Yes, CAP as an organization is civilian. Individually, as members, we may or not be civilians in our non-CAP lives. Thirteen of my CAP membership years were while I was on active duty in the Navy.

Now, can we discontinue the urination competition, and return to our benefits discussion?

Well said, Mr Bowles...

To the others...The Civil Air Patrol is a Civilian Auxiliary of a Military Service, we are civilian volunteers working on behalf of the USAF.  Now...how does arguring this type of semantics effect those missions? 

[majdomke]

Well I just tried to renew my Oakley account and they say "sorry, no more CAP". At first I was told to send in my 101 card since this proved I participated in ES. Then they denied that saying I was not EMS. It's a real shame that anyone with a valid  military ID card can get an account, even if they never set foot in the field, but someone in the AF Aux who does go into the field on a regular basis cannot. Just me venting...

[Майор Хаткевич]

Well I just tried to renew my Oakley account and they say "sorry, no more CAP". At first I was told to send in my 101 card since this proved I participated in ES. Then they denied that saying I was not EMS. It's a real shame that anyone with a valid  military ID card can get an account, even if they never set foot in the field, but someone in the AF Aux who does go into the field on a regular basis cannot. Just me venting...

Well [darn]...I set up an account and never used it...

[Eclipse]

RM, are you sure?  I wasn't aware that we were the CIVIL Air Patrol, I always thought it was the Civil Air Patrol.

What does CIVIL stand for, as that's normal nomenclature for acronyms.

Try this:   Civil Air Patrol ----  I think it means that members are civilians

Cite please.

Air Force Instruction 10-2701, para 1-3 and attachment #1 para A1.3.

I just noticed Radio actually cited.  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PLXhPoxytsM

As to the discount.  Whatever.
I was no more inclined to buy a pair of $100+ sunglasses with the discount as I would be without.  Especially considering I can get
ballistic glasses with interchangeable lenses (for riding) at just about any sporting goods store for $30 as a walk-in. 
There are also retail outlets for these products if I was desperate, not to mention eBay, etc.

Now, if they still sold the Sandbag 1.0, I might be more upset.

Those of you who took it upon yourself to call or write Oakley and "explain to them about Civil Air Patrol" need to get over yourselves
and find a new hobby.  In your free time look up "collateral damage" again and write a 500 word essay about how that applies
to CAP in this situation.

Our role in the universe is gray enough that situations like these discounts certainly apply, especially when the equipment would be used
in service to your country in uniform.  We may not be military, but we are certainly "Federal Government - Emergency Federal".

[JC004]

That really sucks.  If they were just military and not public service in general, I'd say whatever, but that's not the case. 

I've prepared a set of suggestions that I've submitted to Colonel Weiss for his team's consideration if he wins the National CC election.  His plan is to have a working group for member benefits and I've been working on collecting some ideas from other organizations.  It's just a proposal and they can certainly go a different direction with it, but I'm hoping it gets somewhere because I've had this on my mind ever since we started stuff like the "CAP Wireless" and all, rather than focusing on real member benefits that would add value.

If anyone has any suggestions, I will add them to the proposal.  Maybe this working group can work with Oakley.  I have some other ideas that are pretty cool, which I'm looking into now before I add them to the proposal.

[Eclipse]

Whatever they are, they need to be reviewed with more attention span than what we have now, and by someone who understands the difference
between the terms "GSA Pricing" and "discount". (GSA only means guaranteed price, not lowest).

The Oakley one is an example of a good one, the CAP wireless is an example of a bad one.

If members can get the same or better pricing on their own just by asking, or the pricing only looks like a benefit to those who are woefully
uninformed about the respective product or service, it is actually counter productive, because it makes us look like a 2-bit operation.

My experience in this realm as been that any company or service that has the room to offer a discount, can find you something that qualifies, but you're only going to get it one time.

I can go to the local bike shop for parts and service, and tell them I have AMA, MSF, AAA, and owner's group discounts.  They will tell me "I've got 10% for you, pick one and go with it, I could care less which you use...".

[JC004]

I can't promise anything because my stuff is just a proposal and I'm not sure that I'm going to apply for the committee (of course, he has to win, too!).  That said, I am using my contacts in the non-profit sector to get an idea of how other organizations do this for their volunteers and trying to come up with some cool ideas/leads for CAP.  I will follow up on the proposal, though, (at a minimum) if he wins.  I've been preparing a lot of my ideas from over the years into written formats so hopefully they'll get somewhere soon!

Whatever ideas people have, I'll be happy to add to my proposal and if there's people who are maybe into this kind of thing, maybe they'd be interested in that working group.  I am not sure if he had anyone in mind for it yet.

[N Harmon]

As to the discount.  Whatever.

I bought a pair of Oakley boots through the USSI program after Stonewall gave his recommendation. I like them a lot, and were a great value at the USSI price. At regular retail price however, there is better out there.

[majdomke]

It's just a new policy they implemented this year. I've had my account for a couple years but you need to renew every year. This year it all changed. I can live without it, I was just trying to help out a family member who wanted a nice pair of their sunglasses. Just seemed odd their new policy and qualification requirements. I wonder if someone abused the program and caused them to reconsider us.

[Spaceman3750]

It's just a new policy they implemented this year. I've had my account for a couple years but you need to renew every year. This year it all changed. I can live without it, I was just trying to help out a family member who wanted a nice pair of their sunglasses. Just seemed odd their new policy and qualification requirements. I wonder if someone abused the program and caused them to reconsider us.

(Emphasis mine)

I think that you answered your own question.

[majdomke]

Just like our safety program and most any other thing in military, one person screwing up causes everyone to suffer.

[Eclipse]

It's just a new policy they implemented this year. I've had my account for a couple years but you need to renew every year. This year it all changed. I can live without it, I was just trying to help out a family member who wanted a nice pair of their sunglasses. Just seemed odd their new policy and qualification requirements. I wonder if someone abused the program and caused them to reconsider us.

(Emphasis mine)

I think that you answered your own question.

Actually, I would be willing to bet a Trenta with an extra shot that people on this board called and or wrote them to insure they
yanked the benefit.

[Spaceman3750]

It's just a new policy they implemented this year. I've had my account for a couple years but you need to renew every year. This year it all changed. I can live without it, I was just trying to help out a family member who wanted a nice pair of their sunglasses. Just seemed odd their new policy and qualification requirements. I wonder if someone abused the program and caused them to reconsider us.

(Emphasis mine)

I think that you answered your own question.

Actually, I would be willing to bet a Trenta with an extra shot that people on this board called and or wrote them to insure they
yanked the benefit.

Probably. But I'm sure that members purchasing things for family/friends doesn't help. It's very frustrating when good members try to be the best and most professional CAP officers they can be, but some misinformed or just clueless individuals manage to mess it up for us (I'm not saying that about you ltdomke, I'm just stating that generally).

[Майор Хаткевич]

It's just a new policy they implemented this year. I've had my account for a couple years but you need to renew every year. This year it all changed. I can live without it, I was just trying to help out a family member who wanted a nice pair of their sunglasses. Just seemed odd their new policy and qualification requirements. I wonder if someone abused the program and caused them to reconsider us.

(Emphasis mine)

I think that you answered your own question.

I was going to say...

From what I read when I set up an account a year or two ago, they were doing the honor system, where the stuff you bought went towards use in your profession (or in our case, say ES). Getting "cool" glasses for a family member at a lower price is probably the type of transaction that made them close the whole thing down in the first place.

[majdomke]

Only wanted to see pricing

[RADIOMAN015]

It's just a new policy they implemented this year. I've had my account for a couple years but you need to renew every year. This year it all changed. I can live without it, I was just trying to help out a family member who wanted a nice pair of their sunglasses. Just seemed odd their new policy and qualification requirements. I wonder if someone abused the program and caused them to reconsider us.

(Emphasis mine)

I think that you answered your own question.

Actually, I would be willing to bet a Trenta with an extra shot that people on this board called and or wrote them to insure they
yanked the benefit.

Well their policies are specifically stated at:
https://secure.usstandardissue.com/Page.cfm?id=1
It seems to me to clearly state who they want to sell to and the restrictions placed on the buyer.

Since anyone can read CAPTALK perhaps some that had a bad experience with "Civil Air Patrol" member(s) (I would think more likely in the law enforcement or fire/EMS community than military)  could have expressed their displeasure to that company.  Maybe the company felt that CAP members weren't worthy of this "privilege" after an annual review.           

Now as far as benefits go, maybe this is something that the new National Commander might be willing to write a letter to them and try to get this for CAP members as a benefit -- HOWEVER, may be best to get a specific list of items most applicable for CAP use, rather than the entire website, best to go slow at first.

RM

[Spaceman3750]

It's just a new policy they implemented this year. I've had my account for a couple years but you need to renew every year. This year it all changed. I can live without it, I was just trying to help out a family member who wanted a nice pair of their sunglasses. Just seemed odd their new policy and qualification requirements. I wonder if someone abused the program and caused them to reconsider us.

(Emphasis mine)

I think that you answered your own question.

Actually, I would be willing to bet a Trenta with an extra shot that people on this board called and or wrote them to insure they
yanked the benefit.

Well their policies are specifically stated at:
https://secure.usstandardissue.com/Page.cfm?id=1
It seems to me to clearly state who they want to sell to and the restrictions placed on the buyer.

Since anyone can read CAPTALK perhaps some that had a bad experience with "Civil Air Patrol" member(s) (I would think more likely in the law enforcement or fire/EMS community than military)  could have expressed their displeasure to that company.  Maybe the company felt that CAP members weren't worthy of this "privilege" after an annual review.           

Now as far as benefits go, maybe this is something that the new National Commander might be willing to write a letter to them and try to get this for CAP members as a benefit -- HOWEVER, may be best to get a specific list of items most applicable for CAP use, rather than the entire website, best to go slow at first.

RM

Yeah, because someone who had a "bad experience" with CAP decided to begin a vendetta and wrote to the company and told them to stop giving our members discounted merchandise. That wouldn't happen to be a disgruntled retired AF officer living in Massachusetts would it?

I'm really pretty sad to see this go. Someone inevitably screwed this up for us and now the rest of our organization has to suffer.

[RADIOMAN015]

Yeah, because someone who had a "bad experience" with CAP decided to begin a vendetta and wrote to the company and told them to stop giving our members discounted merchandise. That wouldn't happen to be a disgruntled retired AF officer living in Massachusetts would it?

I'm really pretty sad to see this go. Someone inevitably screwed this up for us and now the rest of our organization has to suffer.

[ Personally, I don't know anything about his company, nor have ever communicate with them on any matters concerning who they sell to, or any other issues.

I don't even know why you would be saying a member caused this, because again their policy as a private company was CLEARLY stated as to who they wanted to sell to.

Again, I have no issue with the Civil Air Patrol leadership, trying to get a benefit from this company for anyone who is an active member in Civil Air Patrol.
RM   

[majdomke]

From what it looks like, the items they sell have the most usefulness with our ES personnel. That's the route they had me going down by faxing in a copy of my 101 card. Then said that didn't prove I was in a "tactical" position despite showing GTL. Then they had me send in my first responder card from the American Heart Association, again "no". It just seemed ridiculous to fax items over three times at their request only to turn me down at each step. I think it would be easier to just re-enlist and get my AF ID card...

[JC004]

That's interesting.  Maybe we just need to work out specific requirements of some sort with them.  I'm a little confused by "tactical" but I guess there might be something we could work out.

I will add it to the ideas in the Colonel's documents and if anyone has additional companies, let me know and I will add them too.  I bet there's a TON of companies we could get.  If people would like to send ideas, it's also helpful to know what similar organizations get with the companies in question (if that info is available).  Someone suggested a couple pilot supply companies and thought one already had an unpublicized CAP discount.

Does anybody know if Zuluworks (Zulu boards) is still doing their thing?  We had a discount on CAPBlog with them.  Maybe we can get that set in stone and added to our benefits list.

[Pump Scout]

For what it's worth, I know of others who have the government accounts with Oakley who "help out" friends and family. It's a shame that the company has opted to drop CAP's eligibility, but it does open up other options for purchases, at least for me. I'll plod along for now with the shades I've got, but I'll be checking out the various "tactical" options come spring.

[Spaceman3750]

For what it's worth, I know of others who have the government accounts with Oakley who "help out" friends and family.

So? Just because someone else is doing it too doesn't mean it's OK.

[majdomke]

Perhaps a review of some definitions of the word "Tactical" are in order:
1. Of, relating to, or constituting actions carefully planned to gain a specific military end (Doesn't participating in AF assigned missions gain a specific military end?)
2. Used in or supporting limited military operations (see #1)
3. Involving or pertaining to actions, ends, or means that are immediate or short-term in duration, and/or lesser in importance or magnitude, than those of a strategy or a larger purpose. (see #1)
4. Involving military tactics (getting a little redundant now but you get the point)

So it seems from reading numerous references about the definition of "Tactical" that our roles and services we provide to our local, state and national agencies need to be better communicated to those who see CAP as "Non-Tactical"

[Eclipse]

"Tactical" or not, the bottom line is that they offer the discount to just about every possible nook or cranny of
local, state, and federal government affiliation, a category a Congressionally chartered organization like CAP certainly falls well within.

As posted, an accountant for a local municipality could get the discount, but we can't.  Again, whatever.  If they don't want member's money,
that is their business decision to make.

However the reason this dried up was specifically because some people, likely active and banned members of this forum, woke up one
day and decided to "fix" the situation for whatever misguided, busy-body reason they got into their narrow-minded head that morning.  There are posts
to that effect easily found with the search tool.

Deny all you like, but we have all read the various and multiple posts by some people here who take it upon themselves to "actively correct" people's understanding of CAP, and no amount of common sense is ever going to stop them, as they also have expounded about the same behavior in
other parts of their personal universes which do not include CAP.

Since "collateral damage" is lost on these people, perhaps "you reap what you sow" is a more appropriate mantra.

[majdomke]

 :clap:

[Pump Scout]

So? Just because someone else is doing it too doesn't mean it's OK.

Definitely agree it's not right. My intent wasn't to imply such actions are correct, just that they're out there. 

Reading that back, I probably spend too much time talking with lawyers...

[JC004]

Perhaps a review of some definitions of the word "Tactical" are in order:
1. Of, relating to, or constituting actions carefully planned to gain a specific military end (Doesn't participating in AF assigned missions gain a specific military end?)
2. Used in or supporting limited military operations (see #1)
3. Involving or pertaining to actions, ends, or means that are immediate or short-term in duration, and/or lesser in importance or magnitude, than those of a strategy or a larger purpose. (see #1)
4. Involving military tactics (getting a little redundant now but you get the point)

So it seems from reading numerous references about the definition of "Tactical" that our roles and services we provide to our local, state and national agencies need to be better communicated to those who see CAP as "Non-Tactical"

I was feeling like they might be using the #3 because they are allowing EMS, firefighters, etc.  They're obviously not military operations.

Either way, we should fix this and make a whole bunch of awesome CAP benefit programs.  There have been discounts I've even run into over the years that National didn't seem to know about.  So we add those and get new ones!

[RADIOMAN015]

I know we are able to use the VERY large & large portable propane gas grills (as in towed as a trailer/another fits in pickup bed) from base recreation services for cook outs supporting CAP activities.  For one NER sponsored activity they were willing to "deeply" discounted "tent space" in the famcamp for anyone who wanted to pitch a tent and stay there, in order to keep costs down for the participants. 

So at least for CAP units on military bases, it might be worth looking into what services squadron/rec services can provide to the unit for free or at a minimum cost to the unit.
RM