Screening out the poseurs and fakers.

[GroundHawg]

Btw, does anyone know if they put AF occupational badges on a DD214? Mine is not.

[JC004]

I have honestly given up on wearing my military items on a CAP uniform.

I have found in my experience, that military items are a major distraction to some cadets and SM's who have not served. My decorations are not amazing at all, but some CAP members MUST know every detail of my service. They have become more of a distraction than they are worth (at least IMHO).

I will still wear them to nice functions, but to simple things i wont put them on the uniform anymore. Don't get me wrong, I'm proud of the little bit i do have, but I don't need to show them off every second in a CAP uniform.

That's one reason that I stopped wearing CAP ribbons (other than not caring).  I have a bunch and almost as many attachments as ribbons, but does that reflect on what I would do in the present time?

People cared a lot about my ribbons because, in part, a 1st Lt had so many.  Most are lowly ribbons, but all were worn properly with a 2a for each one and each and every attachment.  The biggest hassle that I got, especially as a low-ranking cadet years ago, was the Lifesaving ribbon.  People assumed that I was some newer cadet who didn't know what I was wearing.  Either that or they didn't know what it was.  Even our great Ned, who has extensive CAP experience, asked me what the Spaatz-like ribbon with the star was.  I went late to my basic encampment (due to personal circumstances) and was a C/CMSgt with a lot of ribbons.  Other cadets were OBSESSED with them.  After the encampment, the home squadron leadership of my bunkmate complained that the kid was still obsessed with them and was devoting much time to attempting to acquire as many ribbons as I had.

Later, at SM-only activities, I began wearing the polo.  At activities with cadets, I wore blues with a GBD badge and CP badge.  I sometimes wore a badge like Comm, ES, or whatever if it was appropriate to the activity.  That was it.  I did the same basic thing with BDUs - I nametape, branch tape, grade insignia, flag patch, GBD badge.  DONE.  I don't even own many of the badges that I was authorized over time (specialty track especially - personnel, admin, public affairs, IT, Recruiting and Retention, DDR - I don't own any of those).

[manfredvonrichthofen]

You shouldn't not wear them just because you don't care. Wear what you have earned and be proud of it. The only thing is be sure you are only wearing what you have earned and nothing you haven't really the issue of a person wearing something they have not earned does not come up very often. I have a book that has all of my award certificates in it along with my DD214 and orders for my CIB and everything just in case someone were to challenge me being a 2d Lt with 15 ribbons and a GTM2 badge. I do admit it does look a bit off at first glance. Just be sure you have all the documentation for your awards and there is no problem. Be proud of what you have done. Yes there is a bit of awesomeness to the silent professional, but that doesn't mean you can't wear your awards proudly, but let your uniform talk for you. There is morbid wrong with wearing everything you have.

[JC004]

I got annoyed with the whole thing early on as a cadet NCO because of the Lifesaving ribbon.  That partly lead me not to care about any of them.  I was at a wing conference as that young cadet NCO with a ton of people who didn't know me.  I was wearing the Lifesaving ribbon for the first time and (I had just picked it up at the conference, actually.  I was previously given the award but hadn't got the ribbon).  Tons of people jumped on me because I had like 4 ribbons and that one.  I was annoyed and embarrassed.  Eventually Col Larry Trick confirmed with our own FW that he had authorized the thing and fought people off for me but I found it more annoying than it was worth and sort of developed the beginning of an attitude of having people judge me by what I contribute.  That conference blew.  Cadets were locked away, restricted to our own activity when many of us wanted to learn stuff like ES and all rather than play with paper airplanes.  I suspect that's why I ended up annoyed with ribbons AND wing conferences.

[lordmonar]

Let me be a tiny bit more specific here guys: nowhere in CAP regs does it say that the member is in any way required to produce a "DD-214" that I could find (ie. 39-2, CAPF 12, CAPM 39-1. I did not look in 50-17 for PME certification).

Part of my point is that CAP should require a DD-214 for anybody claiming military service (and specify this requirement in the regs/forms).  Presently, no such requirement exists, even where we ask for information on military service.

But even more to the point: not everybody in CAP is familiar or conversant with a DD-214 (or in some cases, how to read the darn thing, which is an art forum unto itself) or its sister form, the NGB Form 22.

Sure....it would clear up a bunch of things....but do we really need a reguation?  It is kind of implied.  As for PME certification....National wants to see a copy of the PME Certfication before they will grand equivanacy for CAP PME.  Again this is not in the regulations per say....but I can't see any one bringing up an IG complaint against a commander who wanted a DD-214 or promotion orders before he signed off a CAPF2 for an advanced promotion.

[lordmonar]

Why not ask for a high school diploma, or your SAT scores, or a note from your mother?

Well we should be seeing the high school diploma and/or GED certficate if they want to joing CAP now that you mention it.

I have not (and will not) submitted a DD-214 because nothing on it is relevant to CAP.  I do not wear the AF style uniform, thus my couple of ribbons will never be seen.  I have no badges except the Expert Rifle badge, and I can't wear that anywhere in CAP.  I did not claim advanced rank or training equivalents. 

The FBI check is good enough for what CAP needs as far as identity and background checks.  Unless someone is claiming some status relevant to CAP, then I think the less intrusive we are the better.

The FBI check only looks for convictions.....and only certain conviction at that.  I don't really see a problem with requiring a DD-214 from anyone who is claiming to be ex-military on the CAPF 12.  If they are current military we should be asking for their current promotion order and their current decoration sheet.

As for informaiton in unguarded CAP files......if you want to play....then you have to answer truthfully and provide all information.  If you don't....then thanks for playing.

[jgdeleon31]

You guys want to talk about fakers, check this guy out.

http://www.vawatchdog.org/10/nf10/nfmar10/nf031310-2.htm

Every time I see something like that I feel like I've been slap in the face, no respect at all for true veterans. I also remember hearing about a guy who pretended to be a Marine in Florida and ended up joining the Army reserve as a E-6 because of his fake dd-214, the guy never went to bootcamp or anything and there he was in a Reserve unit as an NCO.


found the article, http://www.sodahead.com/united-states/fake-marine-tricks-his-way-into-officer-role-in-us-army/blog-327471/

I can only imagine how many pretenders we got in cap.

[commando1]

Kind of off topic: I was at a leadership camp last summer. I happened to have a t-shirt that said "Search and Rescue" in my bag. One guy, probably 16, comes up to me and starts talking about when he was in this really cool program called Civil Air Patrol.  He proceeds to talk about all of the "operations" they went on for the USAF. He talked about the time he had to rappel off a cliff to save a injured hiker, when he parachuted out of a C-137 and the time he rescued a downed fighter pilot on a USAF base. Then we talked about his rank, Cadet General.  All in all he made a absolute fool out of himself before we got around to my CAP service. Apparently this kid had only had a friend who had invited him to visit a unit a few times and had sat through a ES class. Posing is obviously not limited to active military service.

[Major Lord]

Try to verify someones membership in La Legion Etrangere: they all used fake names!

I believe the term is "pseudonym" in this case.  They get mighty Gallic when you say "fake."

Well, even though many members of the Legion joined primarily for the purpose of establishing a new identity, maybe "fake" was too harsh ( You can't afford to piss these guys off.....) Lets revise that to "Nomme de Guerre". ( The best thing about the Foreign Legion is how few French people you will find there!)

Major Lord

[NCRblues]

Btw, does anyone know if they put AF occupational badges on a DD214? Mine is not.

On your 214 or 215 it should list your AFSC's. The actual completion and holding of those AFSC's is what authorizes AF occupational badges.

( I am not really happy with the VA/DoD at the moment because i am on my 5th 215.... it comes back wrong every time... )

[manfredvonrichthofen]

Btw, does anyone know if they put AF occupational badges on a DD214? Mine is not.

On your 214 or 215 it should list your AFSC's. The actual completion and holding of those AFSC's is what authorizes AF occupational badges.

( I am not really happy with the VA/DoD at the moment because i am on my 5th 215.... it comes back wrong every time... )

When I got out of the Army I took about ten minutes at some office to ensure that my DD214 was correct. Everything on it is correct, I will never have to worry about it being wrong. If you take it to the VFW they will help you ensure that it is correct.

[RiverAux]

For what purpose?  Yes, I've read this whole thread.... and if someone wants to use their service to gain advanced rank, or wear military badges or awards, that's fine, make them prove it somehow.

Well, since we require them to put their military service on the application it only makes sense to ask for proof.  And yes, we should be asking for proof of high school graduation as well.  Though to be honest it never occurred to me to do so when I was in a position to do so. 

[NCRblues]

Btw, does anyone know if they put AF occupational badges on a DD214? Mine is not.

On your 214 or 215 it should list your AFSC's. The actual completion and holding of those AFSC's is what authorizes AF occupational badges.

( I am not really happy with the VA/DoD at the moment because i am on my 5th 215.... it comes back wrong every time... )

When I got out of the Army I took about ten minutes at some office to ensure that my DD214 was correct. Everything on it is correct, I will never have to worry about it being wrong. If you take it to the VFW they will help you ensure that it is correct.

Hm, never thought of the VFW....ill make some phone calls... thanks

[manfredvonrichthofen]

Btw, does anyone know if they put AF occupational badges on a DD214? Mine is not.

On your 214 or 215 it should list your AFSC's. The actual completion and holding of those AFSC's is what authorizes AF occupational badges.

( I am not really happy with the VA/DoD at the moment because i am on my 5th 215.... it comes back wrong every time... )

When I got out of the Army I took about ten minutes at some office to ensure that my DD214 was correct. Everything on it is correct, I will never have to worry about it being wrong. If you take it to the VFW they will help you ensure that it is correct.

Hm, never thought of the VFW....ill make some phone calls... thanks

They are an amazing help! I had them submit some paperwork for me when I was trying to get back into the military. Alas, even they couldn't help the Army or Air Force to take me despite my disabilities.

[manfredvonrichthofen]

You know, thinking about it the VFW is a great place to go if you are trying to figure out a person who seems shady about their service record. The VFW's local post can just make a phone call to a post local to the one of the person's claim and then they can figure it all out for sure in a matter of a day. So say CAP prospective member Joe Joe Idiot wants to join your squadron, and he has awesome stories of jumping out of C-130 into South Korea during Vietnam and killed 105 Mujaheddin with his Barrett .50 while assigned to the 101st ABN at Campbell Ky, just call your local VFW post and let  them know about this person's wild story and that they can't produce a DD-214 for whatever reason. The VFW post will call the VFW post located nearest to Ft Campbell Ky and give them the name and unit and they can actually walk right into the post and ask for the member's record.

[ol'fido]

Try to verify someones membership in La Legion Etrangere: they all used fake names!

I believe the term is "pseudonym" in this case.  They get mighty Gallic when you say "fake."

Well, even though many members of the Legion joined primarily for the purpose of establishing a new identity, maybe "fake" was too harsh ( You can't afford to piss these guys off.....) Lets revise that to "Nomme de Guerre". ( The best thing about the Foreign Legion is how few French people you will find there!)

Major Lord

Actually, these days you can have all your records redone in your own name when you outprocess from the Legion and become an "Ancien Legionairre".  Also, from what I've read you can actually join under your own name these days. BTW I am not claiming to have served in the Legion I just read a lot of normally useless information.

I was recently at an activity in another wing. A gentleman showed up wearing the corporate blue/white uniform. When he first showed up he had the AF shoulder marks on although somebody quickly found him some gray ones. He had a bunch of medals on his top medals were the Army Good Conduct and MSM. A couple of rows down he had a DSM. And just a plethora of randomly selected ribbons and unit awards. Being from another wing I asked someone about him. They said "He's a big contributor to the wing. We don't really talk to him or about him". OK, whatever.

[Hawk200]

Btw, does anyone know if they put AF occupational badges on a DD214? Mine is not.

It was on mine. When I finished my tour in Iraq, and it came to our outprocessing, they put everything on my old ones on my new one (Which resulted in a 214 that's two pages now). I was kinda surprised that they would include decs on it that I can't even wear on an Army uniform. But, my Air Force maintenance badge was listed, and it was on the little dropdown menu for the fill-in. I guess they would have to include everything the military has ever awarded you on the 214, but it surprised me.

You know, thinking about it the VFW is a great place to go if you are trying to figure out a person who seems shady about their service record. The VFW's local post can just make a phone call to a post local to the one of the person's claim and then they can figure it all out for sure in a matter of a day. So say CAP prospective member Joe Joe Idiot wants to join your squadron, and he has awesome stories of jumping out of C-130 into South Korea during Vietnam and killed 105 Mujaheddin with his Barrett .50 while assigned to the 101st ABN at Campbell Ky, just call your local VFW post and let  them know about this person's wild story and that they can't produce a DD-214 for whatever reason. The VFW post will call the VFW post located nearest to Ft Campbell Ky and give them the name and unit and they can actually walk right into the post and ask for the member's record.

Now that's handy info. Might make use of that if I have any problem children.

[lordmonar]

you know...."bring in your DD-214" is a legal order.

If you have problem children.....just have them cough up a 214 or you 2b them....it is what we did to one of our posers.

[Eclipse]

you know...."bring in your DD-214" is a legal order.

If you have problem children.....just have them cough up a 214 or you 2b them....it is what we did to one of our posers.

Pretty simple and straightforward.  Also, regardless of the reason why, if you can't substantiate it, in advance, you don't wear it.
One thing I recommend to new commanders is to do a top-down survey of everything, including member files and ribbon racks.
In most cases, the simple threat of being held our as a fake is enough to get people to make adjustments on their own, and those
that don't or won't are probably your problem children.

This is one more simple, but potentially uncomfortable, baseline conversation that should be had as a matter of course, but is avoided
until it is too big an issue to ignore.

[NCRblues]

I also believe we should approach this with a little bit of caution as well. I am a big supporter of screening 214's for awards, but i am anti SMWOG Joe blow coming up to me at wing conference and demanding to see my 214 because I have on my national defense ribbon.

I think we need to make it clear that commanders/IG's/membership boards, get to ask for the paperwork....not 2nd Lt bagOnuts who happens to be in the same room as you once a year. Just saying, i think we might lose people if their integrity is called into question at every single CAP event. Prove it to your chain of command and move on, update when need be.