Screening out the poseurs and fakers.

[NIN]

In my time in CAP (1981-2009, with a couple years in there on active duty), I've encountered more than my fair share of people who were either members and purported to be something they were not, or people who attempted to join claiming military service where there actually was none,  or in some cases, pseudo-sneaky-pete adventures and claims of Rambo-esque activities.

In many instances, asking simply for the presentation of a prospective member's DD-214 either causes claims for fantastical service to suddenly disappear, or the prospective member disappears.

But I noticed that there is no requirement to confirm military service for prospective members in CAP regulations.  While someone can claim service on their membership paperwork, absent a DD-214, all you can do is take their word on it, really.   39-1 requires that military awards/badges worn on the CAP uniform be "awarded in writing by competent military authority,"  but there is no real good definition of what constitutes "in writing by competent military authority."

Consequently, the Pocatello Cadet Squadron, having nobody in the unit who has ever been in the military, might take a certificate signed by "Douglas MacArthur" and ginned up on a laser printer that looks legit as "in writing by competent military authority," while the Bunker Hill AFB Composite might say "Oh, you wanna wear your Legion of Merit and Croix de guerre with palm on your CAP uniform? Yeah, no problem. Got your DD-214?  Oh, its not on there 'cuz its classified.. oooooh-kay.."

My point is, as we've seen here on CAP-Talk at least 2 or 3 times, its relatively simple for someone already in the organization to blatantly out and out lie about military service, either by over-blowing their own service ("What did I do in the Navy? Was ah, I was a coo-, er, I mean, I was a SEAL! Yeah, thats the ticket. I was in SEAL Team Two, and I lived in a million dollar mansion on the West Coast with my wife, Moooorgan Fairchild!") or straight up making up some kind of service where there was none. 

If these people are sufficiently lacking in ethics and morals to lie about military service, what _else_ are they doing and why are they doing it?  (While I won't equate a guy who lies about his military service to a child molester, what motives might someone who is involved in a youth organization conflate his or her military exploits actually have?  I'll leave that as an exercise to the reader..)

Since one of the purposes behind CAP-Talk is to help broaden the institutional knowledge of CAP members beyond that of their local unit (ie. to help the Pocatello Cadet Squadron's folks who know nothing of DD-214s and what might constitute "competent military authority" understand these concepts), I ask you: What have you encountered?   

Doctored DD-214s? 

Fake "orders' awarding jump wings for completing 5 civilian parachute jumps at the Podunk Parachute Center? 

Fakers who run and hide at the first mention of "Hey, that's great: show me your documentation?" 

What about people who make some far-fetched sounding claims but produce what appears to be completely legit documentation?

[mclarke]

I know this is not exactly answering your question, however, let me explain my situation. I was Army at Ft Benning. I was medically discharged a couple weeks before completion of my OSUT, however, CAP did require my DD214.

I explaining I did not have a copy, however, they did accept a "certificate of service" from VetRec. Point is, there is always some kind of paper work that can be produced.

As for wearing of medals, my theory is if you DO NOT have a DD214 or paperwork to "PROVE" you earned it, do not wear it at all until you have that paperwork in hand.

[RiverAux]

I think the simplest solution to this issue is to require that any former members of the military present a copy of their dd214 upon application for CAP membership.  Whether or not they're going to use their prior service to obtain rank or for wearing of military awards (neither of which they are actually required to do), this would seem to be a legitimate request. 

[Pylon]

I think the simplest solution to this issue is to require that any former members of the military present a copy of their dd214 upon application for CAP membership.  Whether or not they're going to use their prior service to obtain rank or for wearing of military awards (neither of which they are actually required to do), this would seem to be a legitimate request.

This is how our squadron always approached it with any prior service applicant.  We just asked for a DD-214 copy along with everything else (Form 12, Fingerprint card, etc.) as a matter of routine.  Nobody ever questioned the purpose.  A copy went into their file and was handy when requesting PME equivalency credits or special promotions, etc.

[NIN]

Let me be a tiny bit more specific here guys: nowhere in CAP regs does it say that the member is in any way required to produce a "DD-214" that I could find (ie. 39-2, CAPF 12, CAPM 39-1. I did not look in 50-17 for PME certification).

Part of my point is that CAP should require a DD-214 for anybody claiming military service (and specify this requirement in the regs/forms).  Presently, no such requirement exists, even where we ask for information on military service.

But even more to the point: not everybody in CAP is familiar or conversant with a DD-214 (or in some cases, how to read the darn thing, which is an art forum unto itself) or its sister form, the NGB Form 22.

[DBlair]

I've encountered a variety of examples as you mention in your post, both in and out of CAP. It really is interesting how some people create such a fantasy life to tell in stories-- many of them are quite obvious, but there are others who seem to put together such a grand plan that is almost believable.

In my local area, we have CENTCOM, SOCOM, various intelligence organizations, and many others here, and so there are plenty of actual Secret Squirrel types running around, including in CAP, and I always find it to be interesting when a potential new member claiming some sort of elite service gets caught and called out by one of the real guys, and then they start backpedaling and twisting their story that it's almost impossible not to laugh.

Beyond the Secret Squirrel claims, I've heard of Navy guys claiming to be Marines, enlisted guys claiming to be officers, AF admin guys claiming to be on special ops, the wearing of certain badges or awards of all branches that were actually never earned, local private 'security officers' claiming to be CIA 'anti-terrorism officers' because they wear black or tan BDUs and guard cargo at the port, and so many more stories that it is both sad and exhausting just thinking about it.

One person caught recently was wearing a certain badge that is eligible to be earned by only one branch (not the branch he was in) and when confronted, he eventually back peddled that it was an 'honorary' award because some officer of that branch gave him that pin as a sort of goodwill/friendly gift, so he considered that as having been 'awarded' the badge...and there was actually a former military guy who came to his defense saying that awards for special operations are often done that way-- although none of them have been anywhere near SpecOps in their military careers. *rolling eyes*

I think society will always have its share of wannabe fakers as long as there are people who wish they could have done XYZ and couldn't/didn't for whatever reason, and so I don't think we'll ever see an end to that. I do believe that if someone is to claim military service, then we should have an established policy in place.

The DD-214 seems like a good idea- perhaps as part of the application process of any current/former military joining CAP. Are there other forms that show similar data? I've seen a similar National Guard form that showed all the DD-214 type of info, but I'm not sure if that is given in place of a DD-214 or whether this is just an internal NG form stating the same sort of information.

[Ned]

I was in the Guard for more than a decade before I got my first DD 214.

Sure, I had an ID card and a lot of fancy looking paperwork like diplomas from various schools, but no DD 214 until my first Federal Mobilization.

So, unit commanders should remember that many current reservists will not be able to produce a DD 214.

[RADIOMAN015]

If a senior member states on their application that they are a former or current military member they should be able to provide appropriate documentation.   IF they have specific high level military awards they should be able to provide documentation of such.

I think ANY CAP member who runs around with lots of military ribbons on their uniforms at every single meeting needs to be looked at carefully.  In other words the adult leader (commander) needs to say to Joe the commando, could you bring in your DD form 214 or your actual award citations for us to look at?   Perhaps the best method is for the CAP data base to have a place for military awards to be posted and this would require appropriate documentation.
RM   

[RiverAux]

If a senior member states on their application that they are a former or current military member they should be able to provide appropriate documentation. 

I had forgotten that this was actually on the application.  So, shouldn't be a big deal to add a statement requesting proof.

[DBlair]

If a senior member states on their application that they are a former or current military member they should be able to provide appropriate documentation.   IF they have specific high level military awards they should be able to provide documentation of such.

I think ANY CAP member who runs around with lots of military ribbons on their uniforms at every single meeting needs to be looked at carefully.  In other words the adult leader (commander) needs to say to Joe the commando, could you bring in your DD form 214 or your actual award citations for us to look at?   Perhaps the best method is for the CAP data base to have a place for military awards to be posted and this would require appropriate documentation.
RM   

I agree. I know of one case where RamboCommando was wearing a ton of ribbons and badges on his CAP uniform and was approached for his DD-214. He understood completely and appreciated the attention to detail. It turns out he was completely worthy of all of these awards and certainly a "Wow..." situation for the CAP members and I think everyone respected him that much more since everything (he even pointed out each ribbon and referenced it on the DD-214) was verified. Getting him to wear these awards according to CAP requirements and not Army, now that is an entirely separate battle, but at least we knew he earned everything being worn. lol

If a senior member states on their application that they are a former or current military member they should be able to provide appropriate documentation. 

I had forgotten that this was actually on the application.  So, shouldn't be a big deal to add a statement requesting proof.

I agree, since Section C on the SM application already asks about military service, it shouldn't be difficult to add something in the neighborhood of... "If prior or current Military, please attach copy of DD-214 or NGB-F22 along with CAP application."

[MSG Mac]

If a senior member states on their application that they are a former or current military member they should be able to provide appropriate documentation. 

I had forgotten that this was actually on the application.  So, shouldn't be a big deal to add a statement requesting proof.

I agree, since Section C on the SM application already asks about military service, it shouldn't be difficult to add something in the neighborhood of... "If prior or current Military, please attach copy of DD-214 or NGB-F22 along with CAP application."

Or if they've never been discharged or released from active duty a signed statement from their current unit of assignment, attesting to their grade and what awards they are authorized to wear.

[mclarke]

I've encountered a variety of examples as you mention in your post, both in and out of CAP. It really is interesting how some people create such a fantasy life to tell in stories-- many of them are quite obvious, but there are others who seem to put together such a grand plan that is almost believable.

In my local area, we have CENTCOM, SOCOM, various intelligence organizations, and many others here, and so there are plenty of actual Secret Squirrel types running around, including in CAP, and I always find it to be interesting when a potential new member claiming some sort of elite service gets caught and called out by one of the real guys, and then they start backpedaling and twisting their story that it's almost impossible not to laugh.

Beyond the Secret Squirrel claims, I've heard of Navy guys claiming to be Marines, enlisted guys claiming to be officers, AF admin guys claiming to be on special ops, the wearing of certain badges or awards of all branches that were actually never earned, local private 'security officers' claiming to be CIA 'anti-terrorism officers' because they wear black or tan BDUs and guard cargo at the port, and so many more stories that it is both sad and exhausting just thinking about it.

One person caught recently was wearing a certain badge that is eligible to be earned by only one branch (not the branch he was in) and when confronted, he eventually back peddled that it was an 'honorary' award because some officer of that branch gave him that pin as a sort of goodwill/friendly gift, so he considered that as having been 'awarded' the badge...and there was actually a former military guy who came to his defense saying that awards for special operations are often done that way-- although none of them have been anywhere near SpecOps in their military careers. *rolling eyes*

I think society will always have its share of wannabe fakers as long as there are people who wish they could have done XYZ and couldn't/didn't for whatever reason, and so I don't think we'll ever see an end to that. I do believe that if someone is to claim military service, then we should have an established policy in place.

The DD-214 seems like a good idea- perhaps as part of the application process of any current/former military joining CAP. Are there other forms that show similar data? I've seen a similar National Guard form that showed all the DD-214 type of info, but I'm not sure if that is given in place of a DD-214 or whether this is just an internal NG form stating the same sort of information.

This reminds me of back in 2004 I think it was. I joined CAP as a cadet back then and the Squadron Commander of that unit showed me a "special officer" badge he received while on a SAR mission for the county sheriff. Anyways, he was saying he doesn't get tickets and gets into a lot of missions using this "badge". Was quite entertaining.

[Chief2009]

I agree, since Section C on the SM application already asks about military service, it shouldn't be difficult to add something in the neighborhood of... "If prior or current Military, please attach copy of DD-214 or NGB-F22 along with CAP application."

It makes way too much sense, and therefore will not be done.

DN

[Hawk200]

Perhaps the best method is for the CAP data base to have a place for military awards to be posted and this would require appropriate documentation.

I would love to see this done. I've got a number of military awards, and out of the few times I've worn them I've been questioned once. Since I've submitted my 214 to be included in my records, it wasn't hard to produce the proof. It would be nicer, and a lot easier, if someone could just look it up. Pull up my CAPID and it would show everything I have.

For that matter, decs should be included on E-Services anyway. Make E-Services like the Air Force Portal was, including a nice little graphic on how your awards would be arranged. I know it would take some hard drive space to do, but it can't be so bad that it would be impossible.

It would royally stink for the initial entry, but after that, it wouldn't be so hard. And there's a number of awards that ought to be automatic anyway. Cadet passes all his/her tests and gets promoted, those are easy to show. Red Service ought to be fairly automatic anyway. Unit Citation would be easy to do. Encampment ribbons would be easy with a cross link to some kind of end of encampment roster. CAC, Color Guard Competition, Special Activities, even IACE could be linked across and shown automatic award. Even many badges could be done easily.

[mclarke]

Actually, NHQ I do believe does require a DD214 or equivalent. When I sent mine in, I had put I was prior. They sent it back to the Squadron Commander stating I had to attach a copy of my DD214. I had to call them saying all I had was the Certificate of Service.

[arajca]

Ladies and Gentlemen (or (un)reasonable facsmile thereof),
   may I direct your attention to CAPR 39-2, Section 3, paragraph 3-2 d. line 3.

Suitability. Subject to being waived by the Executive Director or National Commander, any one of the following may be the basis for rejection of membership.
1) Conviction of a felony by any court of record whether federal, state or military.
2) A pattern of arrests and/or convictions including but not limited to sex offenses, child abuse, DUIs, dishonesty and violence.
3) Discharge from the armed services under other than honorable conditions.
4) Falsification of information on the membership application.
5) Previously terminated or non renewed for cause from membership in CAP.
6) Any other unfavorable information brought to the attention of CAP officials at any level.

There is your authorization to require presentation of documentation of military service. It does not matter whether they are trying to wear awards or get advanced grade.

[GroundHawg]

Let me state that after serving in 3 different services and receiving awards from 4, that getting my NGB22 and/or DD214 is a work in progress. I have orders for some, certificates for some, and some that are listed on my NGB22 are not on my 214 (and vice versa). I have submitted 5 DD215s up to today and its still not correct. I wont even try to get the 2 DOT awards I have listed, that would cause a black hole or at the very least a mudslide.

[Major Lord]

I have conducted hundreds of background checks with many people claiming some kind of former military status. If they claimed they were a Seal ( I think this is the number one impersonated position) a Ranger, PJ, etc. there are questions that can be asked and are relatively verifiable. I have never seen anyone fake being a cook or Utensil Detoxification Technologist- the fakers seem to like the most self -aggrandizing lies. Almost anyone serving any time at all will be able to come up with something; Pay info, class photos, etc. even if the DD-214 is not available. For the older guys ( and gals) whose records may have genuinely burned to the ground, some degree of slack needs to be cut before showing them the door. I usually try to verify claims that people were super-tactical Ninjas by contacting their respective Associations; Many of them have played the fake Seal card in the past with varying degrees of success. Try to verify someones membership in La Legion Etrangere: they all used fake names!

Major Lord

[RVT]

I have conducted hundreds of background checks with many people claiming some kind of former military status. If they claimed they were a Seal ( I think this is the number one impersonated position)

As someone who spent 7 years in Army SF I was almost disappointed to discover that at 38% of all fakes reported, Seals were faked more than Green berets by a factor of 2 to 1.

My service doesn't impact CAP at all though - I had jump wings already when I started and the only thing I got to show for that 7 years that goes on a CAP uniform is one arcom and two achievement medals for which I still have the award binders.  I could have gotten those as a cook.

[manfredvonrichthofen]

As someone who spent 7 years in Army SF I was almost disappointed to discover that at 38% of all fakes reported, Seals were faked more than Green berets by a factor of 2 to 1.

My service doesn't impact CAP at all though - I had jump wings already when I started and the only thing I got to show for that 7 years that goes on a CAP uniform is one arcom and two achievement medals for which I still have the award binders.  I could have gotten those as a cook.

That is the thing RVT, those of us who have really served know that for the most part you don't get anything for what you do that a cook couldn't get for what they do. It is an extremely small percentage that actually earns a silver star or HALO wings. That sort of thing just isn't handed out like an ARCOM.

If you can't produce a 214 or orders for your badges/awards, and you claim to have served in the last 10 years then chances are you didn't serve. There is no one who would put the time and effort into the military that wouldn't keep the records, for one thing it is a great item to remember what you have done, and two, YOU CAN"T DO ANYTHING AFTER THE ARMY WITHOUT YOUR DD-214!