Special initial appointments for those with infantry skills

[Al Sayre]

I understand that you have to strike a balance, and personally, I have no problem with people moving around because they are getting burned out on a job, or want to try something new.  In the case you are talking about, I'd say make that person both asst. Personnel and assistant ES for starters, let them train the new Personnel O, as they ease into the ES O slot. 

As to the awards, I'd say that it's the commanders responsibility to see that his people get the awards they deserve, even if he has to submit them himself.  The Personnel O does the paperwork, but the CC determines who gets what, and I have no problem with a Personnel O puting him/herself in for an award they deserve.  That is a big sore spot with me.  When people are eligible and deserving then they should get the award.  I've spent a bunch of time at my squadron filling out awards paperwork to get stuff for people they should have had 5 years ago.

[floridacyclist]

I agree with awards that are earned based on set criteria or duty performance...decorations (as in valor, commendations etc) are another issue as they tend to be somewhat subjective and involve things outside the normal performance of duty; few folks like to blow their own horn that much.

[davedove]

I agree with awards that are earned based on set criteria or duty performance...decorations (as in valor, commendations etc) are another issue as they tend to be somewhat subjective and involve things outside the normal performance of duty; few folks like to blow their own horn that much.

I agree.  I have no problem putting myself in for activity awards and such, but I wouldn't feel right putting myself in for a decoration.

[floridacyclist]

Good to see you Dave. I believe we met at your Sq Christmas party

[sandman]

I agree with awards that are earned based on set criteria or duty performance...decorations (as in valor, commendations etc) are another issue as they tend to be somewhat subjective and involve things outside the normal performance of duty; few folks like to blow their own horn that much.

I agree.  I have no problem putting myself in for activity awards and such, but I wouldn't feel right putting myself in for a decoration.

Why not? In the real military, we often times have to write up our own decorations, "toot your own horn" so to speak. The decoration can always be downgraded (most often the case) or denied. But, nobody will think to recommend a decoration (save for very outstanding citations) unless you request it (some mundane decorations such as MOVSM, NAM, AAM, etc.).

[Al Sayre]

The CC should be aware of his peoples actions and be putting in those commendations whenever the are deserved.  Sometimes you may have to prod them along, and others just won't take a hint. 

There's nothing wrong or shameful about putting yourself in for a decoration you've actually earned.  If you don't toot your own horn, nobody else is going to do it for you.  Dont be afraid to stand up and say "I did this and I'm  [darn]ed proud of it!"

That's part of the reason CAP is one of the "best kept secrets" in the country, we aren't very good at tooting our own horn.

[DNall]

You'll get no argument from me that once someone enters the field on a mission or gets in a CAP aircraft, there are some pretty powerful motivators to follow the rules. 

Where we have a problem is in the day to day running of the squadrons.  Trying to get someone to take on a staff position like Admin, Personnel, Leadership Officer etc.  It seems like no one wants the jobs to start with, then they do them halfway.  When you try to correct an issue you get: "Screw you, if you don't like the way I do it, do it yourself!  I quit."  As I said before in this situation, we effectively have no stick and only a few carrots. 

I understand what you're saying. This is where I'd take you back to one of my original examples. Remember I was telling you about calling kids to fill O-flt slots... you've done a good job so this is your reward, or we haven't seen you so come on out fo this & we're gonna have a little talk. Take unconnected good things & bad things, then connect them in their brains - make everything good a reward, & be cognizant of who you hand it to so you promote the behavior you want. In other words lie - well kinda, just connect things in their brain that are unrelated.

The other thing is... explain the hard core of the hard core on how it can be in the field - you have to follow orders/rules/regs or bad bad things... then w/o missing a beat go into how they have to follow porders/rules/regs in their day-to-day or there are big honkin ramifications... then w/o missing a beat again, you have to compose yourself on your own time out in the world & know that you are a rep of CAP regardless of where you are or what you're wearing. If you go get smashed at the bar & demonstrate conduct unbecoming (like a DUI on the way home) you'll be out on your butt faster than you can ask why. Is some of that a bluff, or meant to misguide members into thinking the sitck side consequences are strong? Well maybe just a little, and that don't bother me a bit. Long as you try to back it up w/ strong enforcement of the things you do have the authority to do, then people will never test your limits far enough to figure out they don't go to jail for not doing what they're told.

That's fine if you were starting from scratch, and hell with retention it seems like you get that cnce more often than not, but how to build the illusion with existing members.... hmm that's a harder one. I haven't tried to do that exactly. I mean I have, but it's always been the jump in the job & new sherriff in town kinda thing, never a mid-course change. I'll give it some thought.  

Gene, I appreciate your position quite a lot. I'm very sympathetic to that. Certainly you cannot function in a leadership position w/o communicating with your people & working to address their needs. It may well be in the case you cited that that person is indespensible in personnel & PAO, but you shouldn't just tell them NO you can't move to ES cause we need you where you are. What you need to do is say, "well we need you in this critical spot right now; I think you know better than anyone how critical your work is to keeping us on our feet; I know you want to move to ES though, I tell you what I'll do, we're going to put this guy with you for personnel & this guy over here with you on PAO; over the next six months I want you to make sure they can do those jobs as well as you're doing now, THEN I'll move you over, but I may still need to ask your advice from time to time, hows that work for you?" You do have to give people the chance to move around. They have to either do a grunt work position for a rotation then move over to the job they want, or they have to wear two hats & do a little of both at the same time. No one should get a free ride though. Take care of your people absolutely, but on a certain level in command you have to know you're spending people like fuel/ammo to get the job done - spending  them wisely & efficiently is what you have to focus on.

Oh and awards.. I wasn't talking about ribbons & certificates. I was talking about holding out that ES job as a reward for putting in your time on other things, or putting people on top of the call out list that bust their butts at home, versus the ATP w/ 10k hours that never shows up unless there's free flight time to be had. I don't think you should tinker with the set standards of formal deocrations. They aren't supposed to be for the individual getting them anyways, they are for everyone else looking on. Use that to your advantage, but never let that get politicized.

This is GREAT conversation by the way, very instructive for Sq level leadership & member mentoring.

[RiverAux]

Sounds to me like that guy has a lazy commander with a skewed sense of priorities.  If this guy is the ES go-to person he needs to be doing that.  Others can be taught  the Personnel/Admin duties.