Time in Grade

[Grumpy]

I have a member who just converted from Sponsor Member to Active Member.  While he was a Sponsor he completed all requirements for completing Level I.  (Level I completition documented in e-services).  My question is, since he completed that training as a sponsor, can I apply that TIG toward his promotion to 2nd Lt?  (3 mos as Sponsor Member + 3 mos as Active Member = 6 mos TIG). 

35-5 doesn't mention any situation like this.

[tsrup]

The time in grade requirement states that he needs 6 months "Time in Grade" as a "SM" (aka SMWOG, in this case Sponsor member =/= Senior Member)



since that grade is not afforded to sponsor members, then the answer would be no.

[Grumpy]

I figured that would be the case and I knew it in my heart.  He's been with the squadron a year now and he's been as active, if not more so, than some of the members who have rank.  Just trying to find a way to do something nice for him.

Thanks for the confirmation.

[SARDOC]

You might want to check with your wing professional development officer because I know in my Wing they give you credit for that time and as soon as national changes them over they would be eligible for 2d Lt.

[MSG Mac]

They go by the join date in E-services. Try using the online promotion application, it should go through.

[Eclipse]

One of several reasons I generally recommend against people joining as CSMs.

[lordmonar]

I'd call NHQ.

[EMT-83]

You might want to check with your wing professional development officer because I know in my Wing they give you credit for that time and as soon as national changes them over they would be eligible for 2d Lt.

Your Wing PDO doesn't really have the authority to make this decision. There is a gap in the regulations where NHQ is going have to make the call.

[spacecommand]

How do CSMs show up in e-services?  RANK: SM / Status: CSM ?

[Grumpy]

They go by the join date in E-services. Try using the online promotion application, it should go through.

I tried it and it worked.  Thanks

[flyboy53]

Check e-services and see what's listed for time-in-grade.

I had an AEM once who transitioned to SM status. His official rank on his ID card was SM and his time in grade was set to when he first joined CAP in that status, so in this case the time as a AEM counted.

[Grumpy]

Check e-services and see what's listed for time-in-grade.

I had an AEM once who transitioned to SM status. His official rank on his ID card was SM and his time in grade was set to when he first joined CAP in that status, so in this case the time as a AEM counted.

At your suggestion, I ck'd it out.  E-services has him joining on 8 Oct 09 and a DOR as 19 Oct 10.  So they counted his membership as a Sponsor toward his TIG. 

I figure it's fare, he had to take all the courses and complete Level I.  He couldn't hold a staff position but he was there supervising (with senior members) at cadet activities and helping with labor and such.

[RiverAux]

While it appears that either NHQ doesn't care or doensn't notice the difference in this case, I see no reason why CSM time should count as TIG since they actually do not have a grade as they are not actually senior members.  More than likely its something NHQ hasn't ever thought about. 

[tsrup]

While it appears that either NHQ doesn't care or doensn't notice the difference in this case, I see no reason why CSM time should count as TIG since they actually do not have a grade as they are not actually senior members.  More than likely its something NHQ hasn't ever thought about.

agreed.

The idea behind time in grade is that you have built up some experience appropriate to that rank, and lets face it, a sponsor member's experience is NOT the same as what a SMWOG is.  If it is, then someone is improperly tasking their CSMs. 

Same with anyone who transfers to patron status when they're at any other rank.

I would call this current situation with eServices a glitch and nothing more.  The way I saw and interpreted the reg, CSM does not count toward your time in grade. 

after all I can go into eServices and make my whole squadron GTL qualified if I so chose, it does not mean that they meet the requirements.

[AirAux]

So your Wing ES Officer doesn't have to approve your GTL'S??  How would you sign them off without Mission numbers??

[RiverAux]

Check your 60-3.  Don't necessarily need to be real "missions" anymore (They even put quotes around the word mission in the reg).  Don't even need to be AFAMs, either practice or actual. 

[MSG Mac]

While it appears that either NHQ doesn't care or doensn't notice the difference in this case, I see no reason why CSM time should count as TIG since they actually do not have a grade as they are not actually senior members.  More than likely its something NHQ hasn't ever thought about.

The criteria is completion of Level I and 6 months. National is already aware of the situation. If you feel that the individual is not ready for a higher grade. Don't initiate the promotion. But be prepared to explain to the member that you don'tcondiser his activities as worthy of promotion, because you paid more dues than he did.

[Eclipse]

Check your 60-3.  Don't necessarily need to be real "missions" anymore (They even put quotes around the word mission in the reg).  Don't even need to be AFAMs, either practice or actual.

Agree - this is going to be a big paradigm shift only reluctantly accepted in many wings.

[RiverAux]

But be prepared to explain to the member that you don'tcondiser his activities as worthy of promotion, because you paid more dues than he did.

No, it is because it has nothing to do with their dues.  It is the fact that they are not a CAP senior member and therefore cannot have served the minimum 6 months as a CAP senior member required for promotion to 2nd Lt. in CAPR 35-5 2-1(b). 

If they want to make time spent in one of the other CAP membership categories equivalent to senior member time, then it needs to be in the regulation. 

I guess we've discovered yet another reason that we need to assign an actual real grade to new CAP adult members rather than using the generic "senior member". 

[a2capt]

The person has been a member for 12 months, attended nearly every meeting. I can count on less than a full hand, how many times he's missed but more than made up for it with our weekend and weekday outings as well as helped out with O-Flights on numerous occasions, and has been one of the first to do any training, online whatevers that they send out and say "everyone needs to do this"

So in effect, he's got 12 months as CSM vs. the 6 as SMWOG before getting that 2nd Lt. bar. The requirements for both in that first few months are not any different.

Jumping ahead a rank or two, I can see the nit picking. I sorely doubt that NHQ has *not* thought of this scenario, and all in all, I don't think anyone's being cheated one single bit, or byte.