Shifting "up" Level Completion requirements for promotion

[ZigZag911]

A sqdn CC or deputy need to demonstrate leadership ability for a substantial period prior to appointment. This prior experience may even be outside CAP (e.g., law enforcement, regular military, other cadet programs and so forth).

Requiring prior command experience to serve at our first level of command is counterproductive: we'd never develop new commanders!

Beyond squadron level, commanders/deputies really do need solid prior command/deputy experience at a squadron first. I've seen a couple of "Instant Wing Kings" who lacked this (or prior military command, or really anything similar); it was, to be polite, less than optimal!

[Patterson]

Well for the huge lack of experience many of our Wing and Region and National Commanders have had for the past 30 years, we seem to be OK.  Were not on fire, not sinking!

Heck we are still the Full time Air Force Auxiliary, we get great Air Force Equipment and support, there are tons of AF reservists willing to help us out, we don't have mandatory safety training take up 1/3 of each months meetings, we are able to keep our own bank accounts and pay for things with Squadron funds, not personal credit and wait for reimbursement.  We are not relegated to wearing Grey rank slides on our Blues, nor do we have to pay tons more when we purchase anything from the CAP Bookstore.  The Supply depot keeps all of us stocked with MRE's, and spare aircraft parts, we are able to pick and choose the best repair shop in our local areas.  No Wing or Region Commanders are getting kick-backs from setting up centralized aircraft maintenance programs.  We are able to get Airlifts and Vans and Trucks and Buses from the military to take our members anywhere they want to go.  We are not embarrassed of a previous National Commanders lack of integrity, nor do we have internet bloggers making crazy claims against our current National Commander. Not to mention how great it is to have a paid Air Force staff in almost every Wing. 

^ Oh thats right, its 2010, not 1980.  My goof.

[HGjunkie]

Well for the huge lack of experience many of our Wing and Region and National Commanders have had for the past 30 years, we seem to be OK.  Were not on fire, not sinking!

Heck we are still the Full time Air Force Auxiliary, we get great Air Force Equipment and support, there are tons of AF reservists willing to help us out, we don't have mandatory safety training take up 1/3 of each months meetings, we are able to keep our own bank accounts and pay for things with Squadron funds, not personal credit and wait for reimbursement.  We are not relegated to wearing Grey rank slides on our Blues, nor do we have to pay tons more when we purchase anything from the CAP Bookstore.  The Supply depot keeps all of us stocked with MRE's, and spare aircraft parts, we are able to pick and choose the best repair shop in our local areas.  No Wing or Region Commanders are getting kick-backs from setting up centralized aircraft maintenance programs.  We are able to get Airlifts and Vans and Trucks and Buses from the military to take our members anywhere they want to go.  We are not embarrassed of a previous National Commanders lack of integrity, nor do we have internet bloggers making crazy claims against our current National Commander. Not to mention how great it is to have a paid Air Force staff in almost every Wing. 

^ Oh thats right, its 2010, not 1980.  My goof.

1980 sounds like a good world to be in...

[DakRadz]

Oh. Snap.

[Dern]. Too bad I wasn't even alive back then.

At least Patterson seems to agree upper levels should require experience.... That's the only positive I got from that.

[FW]

Well for the huge lack of experience many of our Wing and Region and National Commanders have had for the past 30 years, we seem to be OK.  Were not on fire, not sinking!

Heck we are still the Full time Air Force Auxiliary, we get great Air Force Equipment and support, there are tons of AF reservists willing to help us out, we don't have mandatory safety training take up 1/3 of each months meetings, we are able to keep our own bank accounts and pay for things with Squadron funds, not personal credit and wait for reimbursement.  We are not relegated to wearing Grey rank slides on our Blues, nor do we have to pay tons more when we purchase anything from the CAP Bookstore.  The Supply depot keeps all of us stocked with MRE's, and spare aircraft parts, we are able to pick and choose the best repair shop in our local areas.  No Wing or Region Commanders are getting kick-backs from setting up centralized aircraft maintenance programs.  We are able to get Airlifts and Vans and Trucks and Buses from the military to take our members anywhere they want to go.  We are not embarrassed of a previous National Commanders lack of integrity, nor do we have internet bloggers making crazy claims against our current National Commander. Not to mention how great it is to have a paid Air Force staff in almost every Wing. 

^ Oh thats right, its 2010, not 1980.  My goof.

1980 sounds like a good world to be in...

Yeah, right....
1980; we're as much the Air Force Auxiliary today.  Don't fall for that BS.
1980; mandatory safety briefings; well you have me there.
1980; the only equipment wings received were from DRMO or member donated equipment.  Today we have over $10 million in new communications equipment, computers and, a fleet of modern Cessnas; with a consistant supply of new vans every year.
1980; Air Force mandays were plentiful to dole out to reservists.  It went away with the numerous  "deployments" since the mid 90's.  Gee, the air force needed the aircraft for wartime missions.  Oh, well.  Same with military busses and vans.
1980; The supply depot and bookstore were breaking us almost as bad as our foray into NASCAR did in 2001.
1980; Kick Backs? Why do you think we now have consolodated maint. for our aircraft?  Maybe we should ask a former GAWG/CC how many of his aircraft just rusted away?  Maybe we should ask a former NJWG/CC why there was 15 lbs of body puddy used to "repair" a dented aircraft instead of properly repairing the aircraft with new sheet metal.  Or maybe we should ask a former PAWG/CC why an engine was installed using the plastic washers from the packing crate it came in.  I have a few more examples of "using the best repair shop in our local areas" but, I think you get the picture.
1980; squadron funds were unaccounted for and routinely went "missing".  Today, every penny is accounted for and no one needs to be reimbursed for out of pocket expenses; even for emergancy expenses.  I spent way more out of pocket then than now. 
1980; You think we weren't embarrassed when we went from blue to maroon?
1980; We had no idea back then how our leaders acted.  Now we have some idea; no matter how "crazy" we think these "bloggers" are. 
1980; our PD program had absolutely no relationship with leadership position or grade;  members were routinely promoted for being in the GOBN.  Things are better today however, we still have a long way to go.

Talk about short memories

[NavLT]

I agree that POSITIVE experience should be required.  Not sure in an organization where 5 seniors at a unit are up to fill the CC slot because he died/left/quit and none of them have any........

I would hope that Group, Wing, Region and National have a criteria looked at but the broken well at the squadrons could lead to 3 people up for group who were all poor unit commanders, and 4 poor group commanders for Wing CC. 

Not too sure what the criteria of positive command expereince is since I run into unit commanders who play the metrics game only to get recongnized.  A good leader does not applaud more mitchels than the next guy when the cadets in question did not really earn the pips.

Nuff Said (as stan lee would say)

Lt J

[Patterson]

.............should ask a former PAWG/CC why an engine was installed using the plastic washers from the packing crate it came in

??  Wow.  That is crazy!  May not know it, but many military planes are put together with plastic clips, rings, locks, screws and washers.  Some Plastics are stronger than many metals. 

All depends on environmental situations (temp, moisture, etc.) and functionality of the part itself. 

I am confused about your reference though.  Are you saying the engine was mounted with plastic washers taken off of the crate itself?  You would be surprised if you opened up a Cessna right off the line today and saw how many plastic washers there actually are.

Heck, Lockheed buys millions worth of plastic washers, bolts and screws.   

[RiverAux]

First stab.

Have you gotten any traction with this idea? 

[sleepyboyd]

I agree with the shift... but then again, I'm a major with Level 4, so I don't care....  Major is the best rank anyway... high enough to be taken seriously, but low enough to not be taken too seriously.

On active duty the USAF promotes someone to Captain faster than the other branches do, even though major still comes at the same 11 year point. 

US Air Force promotes to 2nd to 1st LT at 2 years service automatic.  USAF promotes 1st Lt to Captain by board eligiable at 2 years of service... currently a 99% rate of promotion (I know a guy who didn't cut it... he was a bag of donuts)... and Major boards currently meet at the 8-9 year mark.

The US Army can get you to O-3 in 3 years....