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Gortex Grade Slide

Started by Becks, November 29, 2006, 05:17:43 AM

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Becks

Does anyone know when Vanguard is supposed start producing these for CAP?

BBATW

DNall

I imagine sometime after the policy letter says they're officially authorized. Right now it's just a very official rumor. Like most new things though, it won't show up on the website, you'll have to phone it in.

Becks

2 minute response time on my question, now thats what I call speedy :)

BBATW

DNall

NP, No mexican hat dances though, you gotta provide your own floor show.  ;D

Pace

Hate to say it, but I doubt we're going to see many more policy letters under TP's reign.  He's moved to non-memo format informative emails.  We'll have to start saving emails like we did policy letters until the regs are revised and the email is hopefully remembered.

*praying I'm wrong and we start to see policy letters again*
Lt Col, CAP

DNall

well, a policy letter is a legally filed change to regs, issued either in an emergency or in compliance with the wishes of the NB (but still going to req another vote from them to congirm). And a policy letter is posted w/ regs as a change. Emails, while informative, are meaningless.

Pace

I'm not disagreeing with you, just pointing out the direction I think we're going for now.  Again, I really don't want to be right this time.
Lt Col, CAP

Pylon

Quote from: Becks on November 29, 2006, 05:17:43 AM
Does anyone know when Vanguard is supposed start producing these for CAP?

I sent an email to Vanguard to find out when they project being able to carry the item.  The response a day later indicated that they have no current timetable nor projected date that they will be carrying these.  (in other words:  "Huh, what rank slides?  Uhm... no... we don't have those....")
Michael F. Kieloch, Maj, CAP

Hawk200

Quote from: Pylon on November 29, 2006, 05:24:36 PMThe response a day later indicated that they have no current timetable nor projected date that they will be carrying these.  (in other words:  "Huh, what rank slides?  Uhm... no... we don't have those....")

You get that when they actually have what you're looking for. I went through four different idiots at Vanguard while looking for a state ribbon. The fifth person sent me a photo of the ribbon I wanted, and asked me if it was the right one.

Pace

Quote from: Pylon on November 29, 2006, 05:24:36 PM
Quote from: Becks on November 29, 2006, 05:17:43 AM
Does anyone know when Vanguard is supposed start producing these for CAP?

I sent an email to Vanguard to find out when they project being able to carry the item.  The response a day later indicated that they have no current timetable nor projected date that they will be carrying these.  (in other words:  "Huh, what rank slides?  Uhm... no... we don't have those....")
There's one guy that is the all-knowing supply guru for CAP items at Vanguard.  You need to ask to talk to him.  If I knew his name, I'd PM it to you.  The NCUC had been in stock for a month and the workers at vanguard (except for this one guy) didn't know they had it.
Lt Col, CAP

DNall

Wouldn't it just be easier if they have an account rep that dealt with all teh CAP orders, and God forbid a Quality Control guy to make sure the orders are right before they go out.

O-Rex

Patience, my friends. 

It's quite conceivable that changes in uniforms are occurring faster than Vanguard's ability (or de$ire) to keep up with it.

Remember that NB proceedings are public info, and there is a lag between decision and implementation: new gee-gaws must be spec'd and produced.

There are also CAP members who haven't heard about the changes: I anticipated the rank-on-the-hat (inside info) and had one prepared and tucked away until the news broke.  I was the first on my block to have one, and since then I've received more than a few 'on-the-spot corrections' from the unenlightened (Policy letters do come in handy to placate the "39-1 Nazis") 

Nonetheless, these latest changes are much welcome.  I guess since the debut of the ABU for USAF is just around the corner, the Air Force is loosening up a bit (what the heck: before long the BDU will virtually become a CAP-distinctive uniform in itself.)

Letting the dust settle on all the changes will give us a chance to collect enough loose change to be able to buy all the new costumes and accouterments.  Gore-Tex Jackets aren't cheap.

DNall

"de$ire"  :D And we should all be 39-1 nazis my friend, to a degree anyway. You wouldn't need to be that on top of it w/ peers in the military, but then that's the thing is you wouldn't NEED to be, a lot of people in CAP have a long way to go & get offended a little to easy at the thought of someone coaching them on how to dress.

Anyway, the goretex, grade on hat, bule/white grade on flt suits, & a couple other things were approved by NB a long time ago. They've been recycled w/ AF in the meantime. If you recall the uniform policy discussion at this last NB meeting, they discussed each of those items & Col Hodgkins reported all were in the AF chain & he'd check to see what the status was. So basically, these items have been approved by AF & NB, but haven't been published as authorized yet. If they have someone please let me know where to find that.

QuoteI guess since the debut of the ABU for USAF is just around the corner, the Air Force is loosening up a bit (what the heck: before long the BDU will virtually become a CAP-distinctive uniform in itself.)
I've mentioned this before. It's a foregone conclusion that we will indeed go to ABUs AFTER the final date for AF, which is 2009 last I hard, and we won't be STARTING into them till two years after that, and that's just a historical reference, it's really based on when servicable BDUs become scarce in surplus & when quantity of ABUs makes it reasonable to switch... all that will be an AF call. HOWEVER, in the meantime they will all be in ABUs & we will be in BDUs, so yes I think they will lighten up quite a bit, and that means room for us to fo things like dark blue over glow in the dark blue, or maybe even white on OD badges... stuff like that. THEN when we do switch to ABUs we should be able to carry those changes with us. You understand that's why we have the blue tapes now right? We & the AF had the SAME tapes as the AF (of course ours said Civil Air Patrol) when we were all in green fatigues. When we switched to BDUs they said no subdued tapes, no one ever attempted to get white on OD tapes or any other color (like dark blue) & we just kept what we had. Anyway, opportunity presenting itself right there, I hope it's taken advantage of rather than wait another 20 years looking silly.

By the way on the Goretex, check the link under marketplace you'll see them at $30 apparently confirmed as AF issue, & they have a return policy if you don't like it. I'm gonna grab one & see, let ya know how it is.

O-Rex

We won't need ABU's for a while: there really is not much difference in functionality anyway.  And if you want to be the first on your block with the lastest fashions, its not going to be cheap.

Expect to see shortages in new BDU's sooner than later:  BDU production has fallen off in the last few years due to the demand in DCU's (for obvious reasons.)  There have been shortages in certain sizes of items at MCSS stores for a while now.  Phase-in of the ABU will provide a windfall of DRMO/surplus for cadets, though.

Even DCU's are going away just as quickly, which could present another DRMO/Surplus opportunity, if CAP and USAF should so decide to authorize them sometime in the future (and who's to say they won't? Given recent events, anything is possible.)  They did the same thing in the 1980's when they were trying to deplete stocks of Vietnam-Era Jungle fatigues.

Even black combat boots are getting cheaper: you can get Bates or Belleville ICB's new-in-the-box on E-bay for as low as 40 bucks.  When they choose to adopt the ABU, I think they should keep the black boots as a "CAP-distinctive" item for a while longer.  There is sure to be an ample supply for years to come.

ECWCS gear: The ECWCS parka debuted over 20 years ago, so it was high-time that we got to wear them.  Not long ago, you couldn't get them for under a hundred, not even used ones.  Now they go for about $30.

b/t/w, with the adoption of all the new pixelated uniforms for each of the services, do any of them use the M-65 field jacket anymore?

MIKE

Quote from: O-Rex on November 30, 2006, 05:15:33 PM
b/t/w, with the adoption of all the new pixelated uniforms for each of the services, do any of them use the M-65 field jacket anymore?

I believe most are switching to Gore-tex or a new non-Gore-tex coat in the appropriate pattern.  I know the Army has one in development that is similar in construction to the ACUs themselves... Which will replace the M-65.
Mike Johnston

Hawk200

Quote from: MIKE on November 30, 2006, 07:00:06 PM
Quote from: O-Rex on November 30, 2006, 05:15:33 PM
b/t/w, with the adoption of all the new pixelated uniforms for each of the services, do any of them use the M-65 field jacket anymore?

I believe most are switching to Gore-tex or a new non-Gore-tex coat in the appropriate pattern.  I know the Army has one in development that is similar in construction to the ACUs themselves... Which will replace the M-65.

There was an article in the Army Times about the new cold weather gear. The Army is going to field a seven layer system for cold/wet weather wear. Some pretty nice stuff actually with underlayers, soft and hard shell outers, and one layer designed only for the coldest of environments. Probably be a few years before the Air Force adopts anything similar. The Army may have an oddball camo, but some of the accessories are nice.

There is some info here: http://www.natick.army.mil/about/pao/2004/04-17.htm

Apparently Polartec is producing a few of the items, info from them: http://www.polartec.com/contentmgr/showdetails.php/id/1285

All in all, seems to be pretty good stuff.

DNall

Quote from: Hawk200 on November 30, 2006, 07:47:14 PMProbably be a few years before the Air Force adopts anything similar. The Army may have an oddball camo, but some of the accessories are nice.
I don't really care what they switch to, just so it isn't pink (or blueberry), I just think it's stupid the military is going to spend billions to have everyone is distinctive camo pattern utility uniforms. You know Truman made his name in Congress during WWII by forcing efficiency in the military, one of the key items being standardization of a lot of common uniform items. I really have a feeling this trend is going to be shorter than BDUs & then we'll be back to a dregree of standadization again. Hell, if I were the AF, I'd cancel ABUs right now & adopt ACUs just for the savings involved for both services.

There is ZERO chance CAP will be auth DCUs EVER regardless of supply. The military resricts domestic wear of thsoe by their own people pretty heavily, plus do you know what those things are like after they get back from theater? We already play in the maybe/maybe not servicable range of BDUs, you don't want to see where that range is w/ DCUs.

Far as what CAP does or does not wear. That should be hard linked to what the AF is issuing, and have authorized initial wear dates around the mandatory wear date for the AF (incl Guard/Res), and have CAP mandatory into it a couple years later... so in this case, 2009-2011.

ELTHunter

#17
Quote from: DNall on December 01, 2006, 04:08:24 AM
I just think it's stupid the military is going to spend billions to have everyone is distinctive camo pattern utility uniforms. You know Truman made his name in Congress during WWII by forcing efficiency in the military, one of the key items being standardization of a lot of common uniform items. I really have a feeling this trend is going to be shorter than BDUs & then we'll be back to a dregree of standadization again. Hell, if I were the AF, I'd cancel ABUs right now & adopt ACUs just for the savings involved for both services.

I couldn't agree more.  I am surprised they were allowed to go their separate ways without someone pointing that out.  Especially in light of the current, and probably future, budget constraints on everything that isn't directly connected to war fighting.

Fixed quote tags - MIKE
Maj. Tim Waddell, CAP
SER-TN-170
Deputy Commander of Cadets
Emergency Services Officer

DNall

Even some of the same kind of stuff on the warfigting side is incredibly stupid, but don't get me started. I'm curious what kind of changes will trickle down from Dr Gates. I think it'll be a good thing one way or another.

O-Rex

#19
Getting back to the subject-at-hand, [[company name redacted]] is interested in poducing the slides (a few CAP Members have already approached them)  They already make Army Gore-Tex Rank slides.  They asked if anyone had any idea of the measurements. 

I just figured standard embroidered rank and CAP cutouts, with 1/2 inch spacing between the rank and the cutouts, no??

I don't imagine that there is anything prorietary on the CAP Rank Slides (?)


Admin edit: Company name removed for their protection; sorry. They are one of the few that NHQ has not yet served with a C&D letter. PM author of post for name. --MK