Are CAP Senior NCO ranks coming back?

Started by RVT, June 30, 2010, 12:17:56 AM

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

SARDOC

Quote from: jimmydeanno on November 04, 2012, 08:33:41 PM
So I suppose the real questions are:

1) Is the creation of the CAP NCO corps something that will actually strengthen our organization?

2) Is it just a feel good program for people who want to wear stripes instead?

3) Is there a differentiation between the roles that either can do or should do?

-------------

In regards to the CAP/CCC, what does the role even do?  The job description really doesn't contain anything that a CAP officer can do or isn't doing.  So, the CAP/CCC spot was created to develop an NCO corps TO DO WHAT?

1) It can be, if our Professional Development Program were expanded. The Program would just need to be developed and the Culture of our organization changed.  Different things motivate different people.  These are tools that might be incentives to encourage participation in the Civil Air Patrol.

2)Yes, Former Military NCO's have the option of wearing stripes.  Just to make them feel better I guess.

3) I think the change could alter the roles of some.  Right now, if someone gets a master's rating in any Specialty and attends the right schools, can be promoted to Lieutenant Colonel even if there participation becomes just the Occasional Appearance at a SAREX as a GTM3...because that is the extent they choose to volunteer.  I would think that person might be a good NCO instead of an auxiliary equivalent to a Senior Field Grade Officer.

As far as the CAP Command Chief Master Sergeant...I don't really understand it either as our NCO corps is weak, ineffective and ultimately pointless in it's current configuration.

jimmydeanno

#221
Quote from: SARDOC on November 04, 2012, 08:46:58 PM
3) I think the change could alter the roles of some.  Right now, if someone gets a master's rating in any Specialty and attends the right schools, can be promoted to Lieutenant Colonel even if there participation becomes just the Occasional Appearance at a SAREX as a GTM3...because that is the extent they choose to volunteer.  I would think that person might be a good NCO instead of an auxiliary equivalent to a Senior Field Grade Officer.

The idea of NCOs in the military is functional specialty and tactical level operations.  There is a distinct difference between the roles of the NCO and that of the Officer.  There is an actual need for this setup in the military.  In CAP, I still fail to see a NEED for an NCO program, other than to provide a limited number of folks the ability to wear their stripes in a setting outside of their military service.

CAP does not differentiate between the roles of its personnel based on grade.  A SMSgt could be in charge of a Lt Col, so we are already not using the traditional model of what our grade insignia stands for. 

Creating an NCO corps for the sake of creating an NCO corps, thinking that it will somehow fix a problem that doesn't exist is strange to me.  Expanding our PD program can be incorporated into our existing structure. 

I just find it odd that there is a proposal to completely alter our current grade structure without so much as a peep from our volunteer leadership as to what the PROBLEM is that they are trying to solve with this solution.  The only things that I have heard are:

1. So that we can follow a model closer to the Air Force.  This would be fine if our program were like the Air Force.  It seems to be a change for the sake of change.  It still doesn't tell us what the problem is.

2. To provide our current NCOs an opportunity to progress.  Seems like the most reasonable of the reasons, but with so few NCOs opting to be NCOs, it seems like a program that would have a lot of effort for a small result.  I liken it to creating a distance learning course for cadets who find themselves in the situation of not being able to attend COS or RCLS.  Is the effort worthwhile for 0.001% of our membership?

3. To pay respect to the grade that NCOs have earned through their military service, since respect is one of our core values.  If this were true, then we should also be paying respect to the O-6+ types that aren't wearing what they earned.

The entire things comes across as the pet project of some former NCOs that really has no basis in a problem, and the solution provided isn't going to provide anything of real benefit to the organization.  When our own National Commander says that he isn't sure that he'd be in the spot he is now if there was an NCO program available, it gives me an indication that such a program could limit our pool of leadership candidates.
If you have ten thousand regulations you destroy all respect for the law. - Winston Churchill

wuzafuzz

Quote from: SARDOC on November 04, 2012, 06:32:39 PM
Quote from: wuzafuzz on November 04, 2012, 05:58:53 PM
Quote from: SARDOC on November 04, 2012, 04:44:21 PM
Quote from: wuzafuzz on November 04, 2012, 04:15:09 PM
What role needs to be served in CAP that cannot be filled by existing members who serve as SMWOG or various other grades? 
The First thing that jumps to mind is Wing Commander, Region Commander, National Commander among others.
All those jobs ARE filled by members who serves in various other grades.  Not NCO's.

Sorry...I missed the intent of your question.

How about the CAP Command Chief Master Sergeant?  http://capnhq.custhelp.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/2297/~/cap-command-chief-master-sergeant
LOL, you got me there.  Of course that position could be filled by any capable member, regardless of grade. 
"You can't stop the signal, Mal."

Private Investigator

Quote from: SARDOC on November 03, 2012, 05:44:14 PM
Quote from: NCRblues on November 03, 2012, 04:02:14 PM
I am so sick and tired of this comparison. The CAP v CGA is getting really old. Were not the coast guard, we don't do things like they do. Sorry, ill stop before I rant.

Well it's not really an unfair comparison.  We are both Official Military Auxiliaries who frequently have similar challenges with volunteers/uniforms/roles/respect from their parent service.

We are very different organizations but we can look to them to see lessons learned so we don't always need to try and reinvent the wheel.  Yes, it can be like comparing apples and Oranges...but they are both Fruits that grow on trees with similar size and shape.  It's easier to compare these than comparing apples to moon rocks.

I agree.

What is weird in some Squadrons you have a lot of Lt Cols and other Squadrons have just 2Lt and 1Lts. Right off you know who has a professional development plan and who does not. All the experiences I have had with the CGA has been very positive. JMHO ..

MSgt Van

Not sure why the knowledge base article refers to "Chiefs and NCOs". Last time I checked Chiefs are NCOs (unless they're just an E-9  >:D)

Then again I"m not sure why we have a big cheese Chief other than to model those "darn" new chevrons.