Squadron T-Shirts

[HGjunkie]

Unit commanders may prescribe color, unit designation, and cloth or
silk screen emblem, to be worn on left side of chest not to exceed 5
inches in diameter.

Our squadron T-Shirt:  (black)

Is the back of the shirt even allowed in the regs?

Upon further reading of the regs,
NO.

[PHall]

So I guess those DDR shirts National put out are illegal because they have that big DDR logo on the back.

Imagine that, National Headquarters handing out illegal uniform stuff.

[High Speed Low Drag]

Is the back of the shirt even allowed in the regs?

Upon further reading of the regs,
NO.

Cadet –
I highly recommend that you do some research before you yell at an officer.  Please refer to the following:

CAPR 900-2, Section, B, Para 6, Sub-para e: Commanders may use the symbol effective immediately on "perishable" products and those involving limited expense, such as printed material, clothing, coins, etc. The symbol should not be applied at this time to other "nonperishable" uses such as aircraft and vehicles. Commanders retain discretion to decide how the symbol is used in their organizations, consistent with these guidelines.

The squadron patch on the front is less than 5".  Wing Commander approved.  Should I forward your statement to him?

[JayT]

But it can't be worn under the BDU shirt.

[SarDragon]

But it can't be worn under the BDU shirt.

Sure it can, if it fits.

Is it allowed? Like many other uniform issues, that seems to be a grey area. WIW at GLR-N 2008, we wore t-shirts with position titles and names on them. They filled a functional need, and were worn as outside shirts, or under the BDU blouse, depending on circumstances.

YMMV.

[Eclipse]

^ just because you wore a t-shirt doesn't make them approved for wear under the uniform.



Approved or no for the uniform, the Hap Arnold insignia on the right appears to be incorrectly scaled.

The CAP logo is about 1/3 too big.

So I guess those DDR shirts National put out are illegal because they have that big DDR logo on the back.

Imagine that, National Headquarters handing out illegal uniform stuff.

Where did you ever read they were specified as for being under the uniform?  They were just t-shirts to market DDR, not specifically a uniform item.

[HGjunkie]

So I guess those DDR shirts National put out are illegal because they have that big DDR logo on the back.

Imagine that, National Headquarters handing out illegal uniform stuff.

I wouldn't be surprised actually.

Is the back of the shirt even allowed in the regs?

Upon further reading of the regs,
NO.

Cadet –
I highly recommend that you do some research before you yell at an officer.  Please refer to the following:

CAPR 900-2, Section, B, Para 6, Sub-para e: Commanders may use the symbol effective immediately on "perishable" products and those involving limited expense, such as printed material, clothing, coins, etc. The symbol should not be applied at this time to other "nonperishable" uses such as aircraft and vehicles. Commanders retain discretion to decide how the symbol is used in their organizations, consistent with these guidelines.

The squadron patch on the front is less than 5".  Wing Commander approved.  Should I forward your statement to him?

"Clothing" can mean anything. Uniform Clothing means clothing you can wear w/ the uniforms. again, It's a grey area, but common sense must be excercised.
lets go back to 39-1.

Quote from: CAPM 39-1 Table 2-3
Unit commanders may prescribe color, unit designation, and cloth or
silk screen emblem, to be worn on left side of chest not to exceed 5
inches in diameter.]

COMPLIANCE WITH
THIS PUBLICATION IS MANDATORY. Any variation from this publication is not authorized.Items not listed in this publication are not authorized for wear. NOTE: CAPMart (NHQ,VANGUARD) may sell items
that are not authorized for wear with the USAF–style or CAP distinctive uniforms. This
publication is the sole source for wear instructions and authorized items for various uniform
combinations as prescribed within.

Hence my point.

[MIKE]

^ Concur.

[HGjunkie]

^ Concur.

Thank you.

[Hawk200]

So I guess those DDR shirts National put out are illegal because they have that big DDR logo on the back.

Imagine that, National Headquarters handing out illegal uniform stuff.

I've got issue with the tan ones that cadets keep wearing. And I always get the response,"Well, they gave it to me!"

They always get quiet when I ask them if they were told they could wear it with a uniform.

[HGjunkie]

Is the back of the shirt even allowed in the regs?

Upon further reading of the regs,
NO.

Cadet –
I highly recommend that you do some research before you yell at an officer.

The squadron patch on the front is less than 5".  Wing Commander approved.  Should I forward your statement to him?

1)I wasn't yelling at you. It was a BOLD statment, and simply put, you took it the wrong way.
Read my post 4 posts up, I believe that is research.

2)Since I dont live in AR wing, I dont know what that has to do with anything. and if he DID approve the shirt while knowing the back of the shirt was like that, Then he allowed you to break Regs. Unless there's a wing supplement we should know about.

[High Speed Low Drag]

^ just because you wore a t-shirt doesn't make them approved for wear under the uniform.



Approved or no for the uniform, the Hap Arnold insignia on the right appears to be incorrectly scaled.

The CAP logo is about 1/3 too big.

So I guess those DDR shirts National put out are illegal because they have that big DDR logo on the back.

Imagine that, National Headquarters handing out illegal uniform stuff.

Where did you ever read they were specified as for being under the uniform?  They were just t-shirts to market DDR, not specifically a uniform item.

The symbol you show in your post is not the symbol depicted in Figure 4 - HOWEVER the regs say that any shield or patch may be placed in the configuration.  The artwork you show has the same porportional configuration as the artwork on the T-shirt - which is of different porportion to that as shown in 900-2.  Technically, this could have been done:


Using the AF own clip art, this would be the proper porportion based on emblem replacement:

It looks like the HAP wings became a little distorted when conversion was made to silk screen.  However, it is not out in left field.

[Eclipse]

What is the source for that clipart?  It also appears to be incorrect.

Yes, any shield or patch may be placed there, but the proportions must remain the same.

This...

Looks like the correct proportions, note how much smaller the CAP logo is.

And don't get me started about this abomination,


which actually appears in several official publications.

[High Speed Low Drag]

What is the source for that clipart?  It also appears to be incorrect.

USAF Media Gallery   http://www.af.mil/art/mediagallery.asp?galleryID=5187

[Eclipse]

What is the source for that clipart?  It also appears to be incorrect.

USAF Media Gallery   http://www.af.mil/art/mediagallery.asp?galleryID=5187

Its not in there...

[High Speed Low Drag]

Using the AF own clip art, this would be the proper porportion based on emblem replacement:

[Eclipse]

I see the image you're referring to, I don't see it in the official af.mil library, which is why I think it's home-grown.

Your image is just a link back here to CT.

[RVT]

So I guess those DDR shirts National put out are illegal because they have that big DDR logo on the back.

Depends.  Is that DDR for the PC or the Wii?

[HGjunkie]

So I guess those DDR shirts National put out are illegal because they have that big DDR logo on the back.

Depends.  Is that DDR for the PC or the Wii?

+3

[a2capt]

larger than normal point size, bold faced, black - not yelling?

If you say so.

As for battling the "he said, she said, they approved it, I have an email that says so (but I'm not going to post it), it's been done that way since cavemen .. "  It's pointless. All you can do is bring it up and hope "they" (whoever) finally realize it, whatever it is, is not in line with the publications.

On the specific example being discussed, when I first saw it I thought it was out of proportion - but is it causing any ill will?

Are these emblems, logos, etc. published anywhere with a scale and standard reference size to use when pairing them up? Is there a style guide that has metrics?

(I have not looked yet, just thought of it while posting .. I guess I'll be looking, too)