Helping a new unit?

[C/Martin]

My friend in school who takes JROTC with me and  showed me CAP is opening a new unit closer to me. He is ranked at C/2Lt. He has asked me to help. But, I am a member of Virginia Wing and not North Carolina Wing. His meetings are on different nights and has only 1 cadet experienced besides himself. He may have 10+ cadets new to CAP. But, I do not want to leave my squadron cause of the people and I already hold the position of First Sergeant.

Even though I am a member of a different wing, would it be alright for me help him out? Also, if I do, should I make sure my name and CAP ID do not show up on paperwork?

[MIKE]

If both his squadron commander and your squadron commander are cool with it... it shouldn't be a problem.  Make sure your CC knows where you are and what you will be doing.  When I attended some meetings up in NH WIWAC, I just went through the squadron like I was a typical guest rather than going through the wing and everything.

I would not expect you to be filling out CAPF 50 series for somebody else's unit, but helping to train where you can should not be a problem.

[lordmonar]

First.....stop!

Second....if the new squadron needs help (and by your discription it probably does) then have their CC call your CC and ask for assitance.

There is nothing wrong with loaning out cadets to another squadron.  Letting you go to their meetings for a few months to help them get on their feed sounds like a great idea.

However, you need to make sure that everyone is on board.

You don't want to blindside the new commander (way is XYZ squadron sending me this guy?) nor do you want to blind sid your command (You have been doing what?!?!).

So....go to your commander, explain what you want to do and then let him work it out with the new squadron's commander.

On a side note....your commander may still want to help but you may not be the best person to send.  Being the First Sergeant he may not be able to afford to let you go away for six months....just keep that in mind.

[mynetdude]

If both his squadron commander and your squadron commander are cool with it... it shouldn't be a problem.  Make sure your CC knows where you are and what you will be doing.  When I attended some meetings up in NH WIWAC, I just went through the squadron like I was a typical guest rather than going through the wing and everything.

I would not expect you to be filling out CAPF 50 series for somebody else's unit, but helping to train where you can should not be a problem.

I did not know that there were protocols to follow when visiting a squadron outside of your wing as a CAP member.  Attending an activity/training outside of your wing as a CAP member, yes but a meeting??

[a2capt]

Gawd, I hope not- or I'm in serious violation as I've dropped in on meetings all over the place, and given advice, helped with issues, etc.

[davedove]

You just have to be careful you don't step on anyone's toes.  Some commanders may get their panties in a bunch if they haven't authorized something and find out about it later.

[Eclipse]

Gawd, I hope not- or I'm in serious violation as I've dropped in on meetings all over the place, and given advice, helped with issues, etc.

I am not particularly fond of members from other units showing up without prior notification, especially from higher HQ.

Cadets need explicit permission to go to any activity, and just because a cadet from unit "a" asks for help from a cadet from unit "b", doesn't mean the commander is interested in that "help".  It also doesn't mean the unit "b" cadet is actually qualified to provide that help.

Explicit approval by both commanders, and possibly the group cc avoids any misunderstandings.

[davidsinn]

Gawd, I hope not- or I'm in serious violation as I've dropped in on meetings all over the place, and given advice, helped with issues, etc.

I am not particularly fond of members from other units showing up without prior notification, especially from higher HQ.

Cadets need explicit permission to go to any activity, and just because a cadet from unit "a" asks for help from a cadet from unit "b", doesn't mean the commander is interested in that "help".  It also doesn't mean the unit "b" cadet is actually qualified to provide that help.

Explicit approval by both commanders, and possibly the group cc avoids any misunderstandings.

This gets even more interesting because it's across wing boundaries.

[C/Martin]

Me and my Commander have talked about this a whole lot previous to this post. Since we both live in North Carolina and attend a Squadron in Virginia we have been talked to by this cadet starting the squadron. We  both said that we would love to help. But, my main question is will there be any conflict if my Name and CAP ID are on their paper work. Like Safety briefing.  I do not plan on testing through them. Me and my Squadron Commander even tried to check in to sponsoring them and flying air craft down to them for O-rides. So my Squadron Commander is fine with me helping, just will wing or national flip if my name appears on paper work?

[Eclipse]

^ No - but that unit will not be able to do any approvals or enter anything for you.  If both commanders are working together, then there should be no issue with giving you credit for things done in the other state.

You could also just transfer.

[JC004]

Me and my Commander
...

*cringe*  *cries*   

[a2capt]

Let me add, I don't go in with the intention, but members.. talking to other members, and by the end, and during the debrief session after, it usually turns into, helping out with stuff, too. OTOH, I have been asked back for the very reason a few times, too.

I wouldn't get into anyones stuff without the chain of command being aware, on the receiving end. IE, ES asking for advice, UDF assistance training assistance, etc- without their CC being in the loop. But do I need it from my end? That just seems absurd. We're all part of the same organization.

[Eclipse]

I wouldn't get into anyones stuff without the chain of command being aware, on the receiving end. IE, ES asking for advice, UDF assistance training assistance, etc- without their CC being in the loop. But do I need it from my end? That just seems absurd. We're all part of the same organization.

Yes - unless you have a staff job at a higher HQ and the concurrence of your commander, wandering around "helping" people is not how our program works.  At a minimum you should have the approval of both your commander and the commander of the units you are helping, and possibly the group CC's.

Even staffers from higher HQ have to be careful, because its a fine line between "helping" and "meddling" or usurping local authority.

[mynetdude]

There is a big difference between helping and being involved that can significantly affect a squadron, this is where I would get the consent from those who need to know and should be aware.

Visiting a squadron, even out of state does this still apply? Especially of higher HQ? From time to time our wing vice commander comes the squadron meeting of the unit he used to be a commander at and does not do anything unless asked by the unit CCif there is a need (taught some classes).

[brasda91]

I did not know that there were protocols to follow when visiting a squadron outside of your wing as a CAP member.  Attending an activity/training outside of your wing as a CAP member, yes but a meeting??

Nope, no big deal.  I went to FL for vacation earlier in the year.  Looked up a local unit and touched base with him on stopping by, only because they meet on an AF base and needed to follow the rules on getting on base.

If a member from another Wing is in my hometown for whatever reason, I wouldn't have a problem at all if they stopped by without contacting me first.  Actually I would be pleased to meet a fellow member.

[JoeTomasone]

At a minimum, the Commanders involved should be aware and approve, and in some Wings (FL, for example), the Wing Commander requires notification of members participating out-of-Wing.  However, that is the responsibility of the Commanders to determine what is required from higher HQ.

[JoeTomasone]

I wouldn't get into anyones stuff without the chain of command being aware, on the receiving end. IE, ES asking for advice, UDF assistance training assistance, etc- without their CC being in the loop. But do I need it from my end? That just seems absurd. We're all part of the same organization.

But you are an "asset" of your unit, so yes, your Commander should be aware of anything you are doing that is not part of your assigned responsibilities. 

As a Group ES Officer, I was asked to attend another Group's FTX and conduct some training.   I made sure that my Commander was aware for a few reasons: 

1.  The Commander would know that I was not available for any taskings in my AOR - or at least would need to be recalled.

2.  If I managed to do something dumb that generated a complaint, my Commander would not be blindsided by the fact that I was there.

3.  If I brought any Group assets (say an L-Per), it would be known that it was unavailable.

[EMT-83]

Wow, it's a cadet helping a new squadron. How about a massive prescription for chill pills for some of the forum members?

Make sure both squadron commanders are on board, and go for it. Thanks for taking the initiative.

[C/Martin]

Thanks for the help. I wouldnt mind transfering, but I like the people at my current squadron and do not wish to leave. VA-023 > AFJROTC buddies starting a squadron. I get enough oughta them 6 days a week. xD

[Pylon]

Good luck!

Having recently been part of establishing a new squadron, I can say that having three or four experienced cadets "on loan" for meetings and training activities from two other squadrons helped immensely.  I was in touch with the cadets' squadron commanders (and made the request for help to their commanders) and it was no problem.  Just an e-mail or two to clear it with the powers that be.  But it certainly is a great thing to help out a new unit like that.  It can make the difference between a quality, sustainable standup or a unit that continues to struggle after its inception.

[RADIOMAN015]

Let me add, I don't go in with the intention, but members.. talking to other members, and by the end, and during the debrief session after, it usually turns into, helping out with stuff, too. OTOH, I have been asked back for the very reason a few times, too.

I wouldn't get into anyones stuff without the chain of command being aware, on the receiving end. IE, ES asking for advice, UDF assistance training assistance, etc- without their CC being in the loop. But do I need it from my end? That just seems absurd. We're all part of the same organization.

Well I think there's a fair amount of squadron commanders that want to know if their members are visiting other units.   Perhaps it is their paranoia to a certain extent BUT I don't think it is that much of a problem just to mention it.    I do agree that before visiting any unit to help out that particular unit commander needs to give his/her approval.   
RM

[a2capt]

Okay, so, you're on a road trip, whatever- you stop in and visit a unit on their published meeting night and the course of the conversation goes as typical, "I'm Capt. Doomafloogie, from the Fillable Unit, Fillable Group/wing ..  " and I am the unit Gobstopper Officer, among other duties" ..

So their unit Gobstopper Officer takes you aside and asks your opinion, or how you accomplish some task.. and/or how to use eServices to log it, report it, etc.

Or heck, you add in that you have a Level III Lost Cadet Finder rating as well, and it turns out that their meeting this evening is related to Cadet Finding and they are doing SQTR task training. 

Oh, hey, can you help us with some training this evening?

Nope, sorry, I can't. Call my CC and ask.

Note, no where did I say sign offs.

[Eclipse]

^ If you're taking the time to find out when a published meeting night is, you have the time to ask your unit CC if its ok, as well as the one you are visiting.  Email is free, everyone has it (certainly unit CC's) and most publish their cel numbers. 

No lame excuses.

A unit commander is directly responsible and the authority for anything his members do in a CAP context.  Which means its not a courtesy to
ask, its a responsibility.  If you ask your unit CC if its OK to visit other units and he says "no", you are free to vote with your feet and serve elsewhere, but beyond that the conversation is over.

Same with visiting the other unit.

Why is this so hard to grasp?  Again the mental gymnastics some people will go through just to prove no one can tell them "no". 

You may feel you're the Johnny Appleseed of CAP, however others may not share that opinion.

[a2capt]

Wait a minute, so visiting other units outright is no good either?

Something really wrong here, period.

I'm on "vacation", I choose to visit a local unit.

..and no, it's not an excuse. Whatever.

[JoeTomasone]

Wait a minute, so visiting other units outright is no good either?

Are you just trying to be argumentative?

The issue was regularly attending and assisting another unit...   Not answering a few casual "How do you guys do things" at a one-off meeting at which the assistance was not the reason for the visit.

[DBlair]

If this Cadet will be regularly helping out with the other unit, why not just discuss it with both Commanders, make sure the details are discussed and approved, and then assign him ADY or TDY to the second unit. That way, he can stay at his home unit and also help with the second unit.

Back WIWAC, I helped out another local unit (ADY) and then later, I was (ADY) on Wing Staff. I'm not sure why this Cadet's situation would be much different than a CAPF2a noting ADY or TDY to the second unit.

[a2capt]

Are you just trying to be argumentative?
The issue was regularly attending and assisting another unit...   Not answering a few casual "How do you guys do things" at a one-off meeting at which the assistance was not the reason for the visit.

Me? No.

If you call regularly attending.. attending a meeting once a year, at another unit, then I guess so. But that was my point, I attend meetings in cities I visit when I get the chance if the schedule allows, aside from in my own group where we all help each other, I can't say that I've ever visited the same unit more than twice with exception of a couple in the Kansas City area, one that used to meet at 75th & Neiman, and one thats at New Century. The third week in July, typically. That was the basis of my original post in this fork of thread subject.

[RickRutledge]

Is any of this protocol published in regulations or is it simply a "gentleman's agreement" that a CC be contacted before "dropping in?" I've never seen it, if it is published.

WIWAC, I visited a squadron in my mom's hometown while I was visiting family one summer. I tried to call the CC prior to but wasn't able to get a hold of him (before cell phones). I cleared it with him as soon as I got there and all was well in the world. If a CC gets bunched up about a member from another squadron dropping in, how does he feel about visitors? It's one thing to show up regularly with the intention of "helping" but its another to just stop by for a visit.

IMO, we have far bigger fish to fry.