CAP Uniforms & Army Awards

[flapsUP]

Dnall ... my old friend from CAPBlog...you'd be the last person I thought would promote form over substance. 

[Hawk200]

The AFI cited would forbid, for example, awards by a state government, and by extension, state awards would not be authorized on the CAP uniform

To bring up that point, the AFI says that state awards may not be worn on AF uniforms, if the member is on Title 10 orders, and then only when those orders are longer than 180 days.

I know a few people argue that state decorations are not allowed on AF uniforms, and by extension, not authorized on CAP uniforms. Their arguments are not inline with the AF Instructions. Instructions, which ironically, they claim we don't have to follow, because we're not the Air Force.

I think it's really funny that you can wear an award from a foreign government on CAP uniforms, but awards from the individual states are meaningless.

[DNall]

Dnall ... my old friend from CAPBlog...you'd be the last person I thought would promote form over substance. 

It's not that at all. The poster had a choice of which foum to place this thread in - the "lobby" or "membership" where a discussion of the substance would be appropriate, or "uniform" where the rules of wear & such are best. Obviously they picked uniform & I merely raise that point in saying itis appropriate if people want to talk about that matter here. A whole seperate thread on the substance in one of those other areas is equally appropriate, and wear rules would be out of place there. Everything in its place.

[flyguy06]

Even so, I don't think they can technically be worn on the CAP uniform.

I dont think the Commanders award for Public Service is an awrd that you wear on your uniform. I have never heard of tis award. Its probably a certificate but I do not believe ( and I could be wrong) that it is an awrd that you wear on your uniform.

[JohnKachenmeister]

That's a valid point... CAP should have been recognized with at least the Humanitarian Service Medal for Katrina.

[lordmonar]

Even so, I don't think they can technically be worn on the CAP uniform.

I dont think the Commanders award for Public Service is an awrd that you wear on your uniform. I have never heard of tis award. Its probably a certificate but I do not believe ( and I could be wrong) that it is an awrd that you wear on your uniform.

Have you read any of the posts in this thread?

the National Commander was there and he confirmed that you COULD wear the medal on CAP uniform.

It is infact a medal Link

[DNall]

Sure enough, but it would seem the AF shuld clarify the policy, and in asking for such clarification would be a good time to ask for the AFI explaining & simplifying the process for award of AF decorations to CAP members on AFAMs.

Is there an actual ribbon by the way or is it just a medal? I mean some of the civilian awards are lapel pins & the medals are actually worn that way also for formal occasions. Is there a mini-medal & stuff for mess dress? See how there is a range where AF decs are more appropriate & fit the unique mold we're in better.

[BillB]

DNall,  check the link in the post above yours and you'll find there is a ribbon and there is a mini medal.

[RiverAux]

In cases where there is an longstanding CAP award (Disaster Relief Ribbon) that can be awarded we should probably stick with what we have.  I am in favor of using AF awards when CAP doesn't have anything that applies instead of creating a new CAP award when we are already eligible for the AF Award.

[MIKE]

It would appear that the thread split/merge has backfired. 

[DNall]

It would appear that the thread split/merge has backfired. 

I'm not concerned with the wear policy in talking about the issue, but rather the status of the award as a spring board from which to seek broader recognition by the AF (and NG in this case) for our services - which has little to do with awards & lots to do with integration - AND, as a spring board to revising the Iowa model to a nationally adoptable system - such as under 1AF in the scenerio I mentioned. None of this has squat to do with if these very deserving individuals can or can't wear Army civil service/civilian decorations on CAP uniforms, I could care less to be honest.

[DNall]

In cases where there is an longstanding CAP award (Disaster Relief Ribbon) that can be awarded we should probably stick with what we have.  I am in favor of using AF awards when CAP doesn't have anything that applies instead of creating a new CAP award when we are already eligible for the AF Award.

Is there already a CGAux unit citation? Cause the CG Presidential Unit Citation seems to carry a bit more weight.

The CAP Disaster Relief Ribbon requires a list of disaster related training & participation in a couple sorites. It's basically what you'd expect from a 101 qual. The military Humanitarian award is a bigger deal, which requires significant contribution & direct deployment to a a short list of presidentially declared national disasters of a national nature... something along those lines. The standards are different, and CAP members would only theoretically qual for the military decoration when making a meassured contribution on AFAMs for the military response to such qualified disaster operations (I guess you might be able to get it on missions for national guard also, i don't know the rule on that).

However, I do tend to think it best for CAP not to go creating a bunch of awards for things that could be covered by AF decorations. Cause, the first thing they're going to do in evaluating an recommendation is ask if any lower award in the AF or CAP list is more appropriate. If there is a CAP decoration for those things then you won't get the AF decoration, even if you did twice as much as AF personnel that did get it.

[lordmonar]

Well...I've got say that the humanitarian service medal is not always all that.  They also award it to "units" and bases.  You can get it for not doing much other than your job while everyone else was out cleaning up after a hurrican.

The problem I have with the CAP disaster response ribbon is that it has a lot of training requirments to be eligible for it.  i.e. you helped out with a national desaster (a requirement for it to be awared) but don't have the required red cross training....it does not matter how much you worked your butt off you can't get it.


Granted...I like the ideal that if we deploy to support the FEMA and the DOD awards the humanitarian service medal to the military...it should not be all that hard to also extend it to us.....if it is awardable to civilians.

Well...I just checked and AFI 36-2803 para 9.3 says civilians are not eleigble for campaign and service medals (such as the HSM).

Ergo....We eigher need to ask the DOD/USAF to change their stance or specifically add CAP (and other service auxillies) to the regulaitons.

In the interum...we can change the wording for the CAP Desaster Relief Ribbon to state it is awarded to anyone who helps during a mission/even that the DOD awards a HSM and eliminate the red cross training rerquirment.

[RiverAux]

A CAP Disaster Relief ribbon with "V" device can be awarded to any CAP member participating in a presidentially declared disasater. since 1990.  No training classes required for that one. 

There are various CG Aux awards for units just as there were other unit awards for the CG, but they are awarding the CG Presidential Unit citation to the Auxies as well as the CG.  I actually love this contradiction -- I'm getting a Presidential Unit Citation from the CG for a disaster that I did absolutely nothing as an Auxie but as a CAP member who spent a couple of weeks working Katrina I just get a goofy little CAP ribbon.  Furthermore, depending on which CAP regulation you want to read, I may or may not be able to wear the CG Presidential Unit Citation on my CAP uniform (Actually, as a personal choice I don't wear ribbons on either my CG Aux or CAP uniforms, but its the principle of the thing that gets me). 

[ELTHunter]

A CAP Disaster Relief ribbon with "V" device can be awarded to any CAP member participating in a presidentially declared disasater. since 1990.  No training classes required for that one.

Speaking as one who has a CAP Disaster Relief Ribbon with "V" device, I find it hard to answer without laughing when someone asks me what I got it for:)

[DNall]

That's correct. It states for members of the military. However there is precedent for some decorations that say the same thing to be awarded to civilians when acting under military orders - versus those specifically awardable ot civilians that cover cases when I guess you just happen to be walking by a situation & pitched in of your own initiative. I think if they wanted to there is a fairly easy case to be made for CAP to qualify when on AFAMs. The key there being if they wanted to. I'd zero in on the other military decorations specifically awardable to civilians, and in the process of getting an AFI for that ask that it also clarify that CAP on AFAM is elligible for certain other military specific decorations (such as humanitarian service). There's a pretty strong case to be made, and because AF always holds the keys to when any of these are awarded & the approval authority is so much higher than for service members, and because you can make a case for how this helps service members also serving w/ CAP... yeah I think I could sell that.

[RiverAux]

I wonder if the CAP-USAF folks deployed to the Gulf Coast after Katrina in support of CAP operations got any AF awards for that service?

[Hawk200]

I wonder if the CAP-USAF folks deployed to the Gulf Coast after Katrina in support of CAP operations got any AF awards for that service?

Most likely.

I did seven weekends of 'quake relief in California. Didn't get anything on either the CAP or Air Force side for it. The Wing CC sent out certificates that a few people on the military side used to get Humanitarians. Unfortunately, my Group CC "lost" them.

There were a number of people from my base that went and did one day of quake relief. Every one of them got an Achievement Medal, and I think a few managed to finagle Humanitarians as well (so much for that little clause that says you can't get two different decs for the same action.)

[mawr]

I worked some at Joint Task Force Katrina at Camp Shelby, MS.  This was the Command and Control for Katrina recovery.  The CAP-USAF folks there were the only USAF faces on post and very few of them at that.  They answered to Lt Gen Honore' each evening on behalf of the USAF during briefing.  These people were working 16 hour + shifts it seems.  Every morning I went in,  I saw the same people that were there at 2000 - 2100 the previous night.  Shift change was at 0530 so I don't know how the did it.

Our very own Dustoff here on the forum was one of those people that should have recieved an award.  In my opinion, all the USAF personnel working there deserve recognition.  :clap:

[lordmonar]

I wonder if the CAP-USAF folks deployed to the Gulf Coast after Katrina in support of CAP operations got any AF awards for that service?

Most likely.

I did seven weekends of 'quake relief in California. Didn't get anything on either the CAP or Air Force side for it. The Wing CC sent out certificates that a few people on the military side used to get Humanitarians. Unfortunately, my Group CC "lost" them.

There were a number of people from my base that went and did one day of quake relief. Every one of them got an Achievement Medal, and I think a few managed to finagle Humanitarians as well (so much for that little clause that says you can't get two different decs for the same action.)

If the operation was awarded a HSM and you can prove you were assigned to that operation...then you don't need anyone's approval....it's already been done.   Take your evidence (EPRS, Orders, TDY Vouchers, Decoration write up) and go to your MPF and they will check the web site and update you in PCIII (or what ever they call it now).