(http://www.af.mil/news/airman/downloads_posters/ABU_Poster.jpg)
Click here for larger image (http://www.jacksonvillesquadron.org/images/abu_poster.jpg)
Yup saw this in the S3-T office yesterday, took a moment to look it over.
I think its interesting that each service now has their own style of BDU's.
Yeah... dumb idea IMHO.
Oh... And I hope the ban on organizational caps carrries over to CAP. You'll wear the BDU cap and you'll like it. >:D
Quote from: MIKE on July 04, 2007, 04:23:19 PM
Yeah... dumb idea IMHO.
Oh... And I hope the ban on organizational caps carrries over to CAP. You'll wear the BDU cap and you'll like it. >:D
Here here!
Quote from: MIKE on July 04, 2007, 04:23:19 PM
Yeah... dumb idea IMHO.
Oh... And I hope the ban on organizational caps carrries over to CAP. You'll wear the BDU cap and you'll like it. >:D
I concur!!!
^ Oh do I hope that happens. I hate the various colored caps!
Quote from: MIKE on July 04, 2007, 04:23:19 PM
Yeah... dumb idea IMHO.
Oh... And I hope the ban on organizational caps carrries over to CAP. You'll wear the BDU cap and you'll like it. >:D
:)
Quote from: JC004 on July 04, 2007, 05:31:23 PM
Quote from: MIKE on July 04, 2007, 04:23:19 PM
Yeah... dumb idea IMHO.
Oh... And I hope the ban on organizational caps carries over to CAP. You'll wear the BDU cap and you'll like it. >:D
:)
Ditto on that...
Other observations.
I like the sleeve pencil pocket, neat idea.
They show two boots, are they your choice to wear whichever color you like best?
Are the waist of the pants elastic? Also the third inset photo from the top on the left, what is it?
Why are the name tapes on camo backing, but not the insignia?
Quote from: mlcurtis69 on July 04, 2007, 06:09:27 PM
Ditto on that...
Other observations.
I like the sleeve pencil pocket, neat idea.
They show two boots, are they your choice to wear whichever color you like best?
No, if an AF individual is issued tan, they may wear them until they recieve the foliage boot through issue.
QuoteAre the waist of the pants elastic?
Might be, it certainly looks like it.
QuoteAlso the third inset photo from the top on the left, what is it?
Shirt inside "map" pocket.
QuoteWhy are the name tapes on camo backing, but not the insignia?
Don't know, and strangely, noone in the Air Force knows either, or isn't talking. The initial name and branch tapes were supposed to be tan (thankfully, that didn't make it).
It's not a bad-looking uniform, but I question each service having it's own uniform, boots, and related gear: I has to be a logistical nightmare.
All in all, it's pretty much a BDU in a different color, with some features borrowed from the ACU and MARPAT uniforms. They could have come up with this uniform years ago, if they would have come to their senses in the early stages of trying to develop the blue tiger-stripe utility uniform-what a fiasco that was!
It will be interesting to see how CAP phases-in this uniform over the next several years, and what practices currently in place with the BDU's will carry over to the ABU.
Hopefully, they'll work on it behind-the-scenes on some committee, and come out with a set of COMPLETE guidelines, rather than us getting them piecemeal, with contradicting changes over several national boards. . . . .
No rank on the CAP?
since when do enlisted wear rank on their caps?
Officers have for some time, as have the enlisted Army. I know that AF is not copying Army, I just thought that there may have been a note about it.
Quote from: RogueLeader on July 05, 2007, 03:46:40 AM
Officers have for some time, as have the enlisted Army. I know that AF is not copying Army, I just thought that there may have been a note about it.
AF hasn't worn enlisted rank on hats for most of it's history. I think there are a few isolated cases of it, but nothing concrete.
One of the biggest reasons seems to be because the Army does it. And as a friend in the Air Force pointed out, when you have those huge stripes on your arm, then you don't need rank on your hat.
Unfortunately, the Air Force has not learned the lesson that the Army did over forty years ago. In Vietnam, it was pretty easy to tell the high ranking personnel with the bright stripes on their arm. The Army attempted to compensate by producing subdued stripes (like the AF currently does). The result? The enemy just fired at the guy with the biggest blotch on his arm. That little wear test only lasted months from what I've read of actual first hand accounts of it.
The Army changed to collar rank, and wore it on headgear, and they never looked back. Of course, nowadays, it can be almost impossible to tell what a persons rank is with all their battle rattle. It's usually worn on the helmet in most combat theatres. In a training environment, most of the time you will never know. Everybody has a vest and helmet that's only issued for a few weeks at most, and they never bother with rank on it.
Quote from: O-Rex on July 05, 2007, 03:30:23 AM
It's not a bad-looking uniform, but I question each service having it's own uniform, boots, and related gear: I has to be a logistical nightmare.
Especially considering the fact that there are 268 different pieces available for sizing purposes. The AF has done some stupid stuff, but that takes the cake. Before there were only about 80 or 90 different pieces.
If they wanted to accomodate both men and women then they would have probably have found it easier to make make men's and women's generic sizes. Instead of Small Regular, Medum Long, Extra Small Short, then make a men's Small Regular, and a womens Small Regular. Uniforms like that would have been far more accomodating to both men and women because the cut of the pattern would have accounted for gender physiology.
And even though it would have been more sizes than the woodland camos, it still would have been far fewer than the 268 pieces that they're going to have.
I'm going to dissent and say that the ABU is farking ridiculous. A tiger-stripe pattern? Are you kidding me? What's that quote about tradition unhampered by progress?
Today's Airmen are every bit as likely to spend time in combat environments as their Army and Marine counterparts, their uniform should provide them the same tactical advantages as the ACU and MARPAT uniforms as the Soldiers and Marines they'll serve alongside.
Quote from: Mustang on July 05, 2007, 02:46:58 PM
I'm going to dissent and say that the ABU is farking ridiculous. A tiger-stripe pattern? Are you kidding me? What's that quote about tradition unhampered by progress?
Today's Airmen are every bit as likely to spend time in combat environments as their Army and Marine counterparts, their uniform should provide them the same tactical advantages as the ACU and MARPAT uniforms as the Soldiers and Marines they'll serve alongside.
Lighten up, Francis.
I've seen ABU up close and personal - from almost any distance it's almost identical to the Army suit.
Now one can (and probably will) complain about reinventing the "ACU wheel" but, unless you believe ACU makes you a target, the Powers That Be are not setting the AF up to be slaughtered.
Saw them at Barksdale at MCCS. Material is rather thick and stiff. Almost feels like canvas. Not sure how much it will soften up when washed but seems pretty hot. MCCS manager said that there have been several heat casulties from the deployed airman who are wearing it.
Quote from: Mustang on July 05, 2007, 02:46:58 PM.... their uniform should provide them the same tactical advantages as the ACU and MARPAT uniforms as the Soldiers and Marines they'll serve alongside.
It doesn't really provide the same tactical advantages. Airman working with the Army used to wear ACU's. They blended and had the same thing as the Soldiers around them.
It is a known fact that the guy that looks different is the one that gets shot at. It was a stupid decision on the AF's part to restrict Airman from ACU's. Conspiracy or not (which I doubt exists), Airman in ABU's are going to draw fire . It won't take too long for the enemy to figure out that the guy wearing Tiger Stripes is special in some way.
As one of the old Murphy's Laws of Combat went: "Try to look unimportant, they may be low on ammo."
Of course, another one that applies: "Drawing fire irritates those around you."
Quote from: LtCol White on July 05, 2007, 03:54:43 PM
Saw them at Barksdale at MCCS. Material is rather thick and stiff. Almost feels like canvas. Not sure how much it will soften up when washed but seems pretty hot. MCCS manager said that there have been several heat casulties from the deployed airman who are wearing it.
The material is the same as the Marine Corps utility pants. The Marines had heavier weight cloth for pants, lighter weight for shirts. The Air Force used the cloth weight that that the Corps used for the pants on the whole uniform because it was cheaper, and also said that "Airmen will get used to it".
It's not as durable, but the ACU is made of a heavier weight ripstop, a little heavier than the BDU material but lighter weight than Marine uniforms. It does keep things cooler. Then again, they could have followed the Marine example all the way, and used the same lighter weight material for the shirts.
But it's actually easy to see the Air Force's priorities when you know that next year they're going to release stripes for the ABU that have a
permanent crease sewn into them so that Airman will always look sharp in their uniforms.
Rec'd a US CAV catalog in the mail yesterday. They are now selling the ABU's made by Propper in there. Boy, that didnt take long. They also have the boots made by Corcoran which is different from the issue boot. Also has all the USAF tapes and insignia
The ad says they the 50/50 cotton nylon which means they will be the same weight as the ACU and not the heavy material of the issue uniform that I have seen. Havent seen the Propper version of it yet.
http://www.uscav.com/productinfo.aspx?productID=16433&TabID=1
http://www.uscav.com/productinfo.aspx?productID=16414&TabID=1
http://www.uscav.com/productinfo.aspx?productID=16497&TabID=1
Quote from: LtCol White on August 02, 2007, 02:40:27 PM
Rec'd a US CAV catalog in the mail yesterday. They are now selling the ABU's made by Propper in there. Boy, that didnt take long. They also have the boots made by Corcoran which is different from the issue boot. Also has all the USAF tapes and insignia
The ad says they the 50/50 cotton nylon which means they will be the same weight as the ACU and not the heavy material of the issue uniform that I have seen. Havent seen the Propper version of it yet. Place your rank on the collar of your new Airman Battle Uniform with this small sew-on patch.
http://www.uscav.com/productinfo.aspx?productID=16433&TabID=1
http://www.uscav.com/productinfo.aspx?productID=16414&TabID=1
http://www.uscav.com/productinfo.aspx?productID=16497&TabID=1
Weird, they have a ref to collar patches - "Place your rank on the collar of your new Airman Battle Uniform with this small sew-on patch." Where did they come up with that?
http://www.uscav.com/productinfo.aspx?productid=16500&tabID=1
i think they are just misnaming the sew on cloth rank since it looks like a patch before it is folded and ready to sew
I wonder how long it will be till we are authorized to wear this uniform. I've got mixed ideas on it. I think I might stick with my good old BBDU or my Utilities.
Quote from: LtCol White on August 02, 2007, 03:54:05 PM
i think they are just misnaming the sew on cloth rank since it looks like a patch before it is folded and ready to sew
No, it looks like they dumped in the enlisted sleeve grade in the same entry with the officer collar grade.
The prices b/w the officer and NCO are too wide to be the same thing.
They also spelled "Chief" wrong - sad, really.
Quote from: NERMA002 Safety on August 02, 2007, 04:53:56 PM
I wonder how long it will be till we are authorized to wear this uniform. I've got mixed ideas on it. I think I might stick with my good old BBDU or my Utilities.
prob within 2 yrs we will be authorized for this with a later mandatory date
When's the Mandatory date for the AF?
2011