I have been ordered to stop talking to people at national headquarters, i needed help restoring lost records and they were able to help me but 1 individual who was not able to help me decided to complain to my commander and said i was bothering him and i was then given the order to stop contacting anyone at national headquarters, i was wondering if he has that authority to order me to stop contacting anyone at NHQ. it seems very unusual and it was concerning a matter that could not be helped at unit level. and might i add i achieved my desired goal by what i did. further justifying my action.
Your unit CC? Yes.
There's a chain for a reason. In administrative matters, may times a member may be directed to
go direct for everyone's inconvenience, but if you make a PITA of yourself, you'll be told to
do things through channels.
In the case of Personnel matters, it's usually the unit Personnel Officer or a wing staffer's job.
it was a matter concerning me and lost cadet records i am a senior now and i had the information in hard copy form that i emailed to some of the people at national who helped me restore my record, but you are saying i have to go to my personnel officer and have him email them for me is that correct? and if so i dont see the difference since i am a senior member and it is a matter concerning me it would take alot more time going through another person.
also what is a pita if i may
Quote from: cdbz26 on June 30, 2014, 07:19:08 PM
also what is a pita if i may
Acronym for Pain-in-the-backside.
The order is appropriate.
You should go through channels to get your situation fixed.
Having said that.....you do have the right to go up your chain of command to redress any problems.
So...start at your unit Personnel Officer and the move up from there.
i tried at first and it was about 2 months of people scratching their heads so yes i went up to where i knew it would be fixed. see my old cadet unit was deactivated and no one thought they should keep the records from the unit and so i had to email proof of my achievements.
if wanting recognition for my achievements is a pita then sign me up haha
Be sure you have them give you a suspense date if possible, and request that you be copied on the message traffic.
A suspense date is essentially when do you expect this to be done...
Quote from: cdbz26 on June 30, 2014, 07:25:31 PM
if wanting recognition for my achievements is a pita then sign me up haha
Proper grammar and punctuation wouldn't hurt, either.
There's nothing wrong with wanting to have your accomplishments documented, however
the bottom line is they are either properly substantiated or they aren't.
When they are, generally an email to the forms address gets them handled, if it comes from a commander
of record or appropriate staffer it will usually get more direct attention because the assumption
is that the request(s) are properly vetted. Anything that takes more then one or two orbits will probably
need the intervention of an experienced staffer, at which point you should not be dealing direct.
If you were told to go VFR direct early-on by unit staff who didn't know what to do, then
that was their mistake for not using the chain properly - odds are someone between the
unit and NHQ could have handled it without your going direct.
With tens of thousands of members, imagine if they all got impatient and started calling NHQ.
on a informal forum i don't see the need for punctuation i never did like it much, and there have been times i needed something else and i tried at unit then group then wing and i just kept getting told to go higher and i figured with a matter like this where i knew no physical record existed since i already spoke to my former commander and former group commander and searched the records at group headquarters myself, there was only one way to do it and i was right and to this day i still cant get some of my other records by having gone through the chain of command it has failed me like i assumed it would in this matter, furthermore i don't see why the contacts for national are public if it is such a offense to contact them.
Quote from: cdbz26 on June 30, 2014, 07:40:05 PM
on a informal forum i don't see the need for punctuation i never did like it much
Then don't expect to be taken very seriously.
Quote from: cdbz26 on June 30, 2014, 07:40:05 PM
on a informal forum i don't see the need for punctuation
You'll a much warmer welcome and be taken a lot more seriously if you write properly.
For example, I can't make heads or tales of that mess above.
Bottom line, if you took it upon yourself to hop at least two echelons, and then made a nuisance of yourself because
NHQ wasn't moving fast enough on a non-priority request, you were properly instructed to use the appropriate chain.
its about content the punctuation is irrelevant.
Quote from: cdbz26 on June 30, 2014, 07:48:01 PM
its about content the punctuation is irrelevant.
Punctuation makes the content readable, it also helps lend credibility to the author, showing that he/she actually cares about what they are talking about enough to speak about it professionally.
NHQ wasnt the problem they helped me very quickly within days i got what i had been trying to accomplish in months, it was far more efficient its illogical to take a course of action that would hinder my results possibly indefinitely at the rate i was going.
i dont know anyone who cant read something because its missing a few commas or colons im not writing a book or news article if i didnt care i wouldn't be in cap or on this site.
Quote from: cdbz26 on June 30, 2014, 07:40:05 PM
on a informal forum i don't see the need for punctuation i never did like it much, and there have been times i needed something else and i tried at unit then group then wing and i just kept getting told to go higher and i figured with a matter like this where i knew no physical record existed since i already spoke to my former commander and former group commander and searched the records at group headquarters myself, there was only one way to do it and i was right and to this day i still cant get some of my other records by having gone through the chain of command it has failed me like i assumed it would in this matter, furthermore i don't see why the contacts for national are public if it is such a offense to contact them.
Really! The retaliatory run on sentence does not help your cause or establish a credible, mature desire to work toward any goals. It does however, say a lot about how you might be perceived by those around you. Good luck with your CAP career. Florida wing can be a bit stodgy in some areas, but in general, it and group 3 have usually gone out of their way to help members with these types of issues.
For updating, just fax or e-mail the certificates or other paperwork. Include a cover letter explaining what you want to update with the supporting documents. No need to call NHQ several times. Just give them a few working days to get it updated.
i have yet to be given any grammar test in cap if i receive one i will pass with flying colors i use punctuation when needed and im perceived very well by those around me which include several colonels, im doing very well in cap ive accomplished more in months then most in my unit have in years.
One very important thing you are missing here is the knowledge that a large number of CAP Talk members are serving at higher echelons of CAP from NHQ all the way down to wing and even your local level. And guess what, they talk among themselves. So, when you try to do something in CAP from say encampment staff to a NSCA event notes are compared before decisions are made. Just letting you know.
i never called anyone at cap i emailed them.
is that some kind of threat ?
No, not at all. Others have presented themselves as you are presently doing and they did not have smooth sailing within the organization until light dawned over their pointed heads, and modified their approach. Just being informative.
Quote from: cdbz26 on June 30, 2014, 08:08:47 PM
is that some kind of threat ?
Who are you asking? Many people have replied to you, it would be nice to know who you are addressing.
If you are addressing spaatzmom with that question, no, it was not a threat, was simply a statement. A statement from a seasoned member of this forum, as well as a known entity among many wing staff members in FL.
i am sailing just fine i am well accomplished for my short time i simply have a misunderstanding with my commander it isnt symptomatic of a larger problem.
i dont appreciate being talked down to and i will make it as far as i want to in cap despite any interference from others, i am not worried about it. i already have very good friends in very high places ;D
I am personally shocked, that someone who publicly exhibits your level of communication skills and maturity
was initially assisted by, but ultimately directed to no longer contact, people at NHQ.
Good luck in your future endeavors.
I have to jump on the punctuation band wagon here. If you don't use the proper punctuation it has the potential to make you're statement unclear.
Example:
"Let's eat Grandpa"
"Let's eat, Grandpa"
Unless you're in the Lector family the second one states the intended meaning much more clearly.
Also I have I to agree with the statements that you should have worked with your Chain-of-Command a little more. Ok if the personnel at your unit are having issues and you and they need help go to the next echelon for help. But from the mess you've stated it sounds like you went to Local Unit and Group after that you completely skipped Wing and even Region Guidance.
Quote from: cdbz26 on June 30, 2014, 07:50:44 PM
[incomprehensible gibberish] its illogical to take a course of action that would hinder my results possibly indefinitely at the rate i was going.
Unless you've got pointed ears and green blood, I suggest you drop that argument. But, it's ironic that you would say it's illogical to take a course of action that could hinder your (progress) indefinitely, because that's what you're doing by ignoring the help that some of the more seasoned posters here are trying to give you.
Also, you say you are a SM, but you are still acting like a young Cadet.
Quote from: cdbz26 on June 30, 2014, 08:17:12 PM
i dont appreciate being talked down to and i will make it as far as i want to in cap despite any interference from others, i am not worried about it. i already have very good friends in very high places ;D
Okaaaaay, if you say so, but personally I'm not really buying it. Good luck in your life's endeavors both in and out of CAP. ::)
Quote from: cdbz26 on June 30, 2014, 07:52:35 PM
i dont know anyone who cant read something because its missing a few commas or colons im not writing a book or news article if i didnt care i wouldn't be in cap or on this site.
It's not a matter of being unable to read something, it's a matter of being able to make sense of it.
For example, consider the following sentence:
"Let's eat grandma."
Unless you actually intend to dine upon your own grandmother, perhaps you mean to say this:
"Let's eat, grandma."
There you go. One freebie on me.
Take the word of
everybody who will tell you this: Punctuation and grammar IS important.
Jack
Quote from: cdbz26 on June 30, 2014, 08:17:12 PM
i dont appreciate being talked down to and i will make it as far as i want to in cap despite any interference from others, i am not worried about it. i already have very good friends in very high places ;D
You also come across with rather a smart-Alec attitude.
I can be difficult at times - I admit that - but I also know that you draw more flies with honey than you do with vinegar.
One thing I learned from both the AF and CAP is that if you come on like a hardcase, you'll eventually cross paths with someone who is even
more of a hardcase and can make your life very difficult because they have more stripes/brass than you do.
Do you realise that ALL communications between CAP members - written, e-mail, or text message - are considered official CAP correspondence? Check with your unit's Administrative Officer (I was one for many, many years) and review the guidelines in the Air Force's "Tongue And Quill."
On the very few occasions I have communicated with NHQ I have done it according to required formats, and I have tried to get across to every other CAP member I know. It's mostly cadets I have had problems with, from the younger generation's horrid "txt msg abrv" thing. I don't do that even when I text message.
Right now you need to, first of all, cool off. Then you need to talk to your Personnel Officer and Unit CC about how to go about this, while building up goodwill for yourself.
Dang, Angus, you put yours up there while I was writing mine.
Still, the lesson is a good one.
Jack
Also, as a Testing Officer, I have told cadets that on matters of things written, yes, I DO look for proper punctuation, etc.
Quote from: cdbz26 on June 30, 2014, 08:06:31 PM
i have yet to be given any grammar test in cap if i receive one i will pass with flying colors i use punctuation when needed and im perceived very well by those around me which include several colonels, im doing very well in cap ive accomplished more in months then most in my unit have in years.
You're writing something. Therefore, punctuation is needed.
Jeez, kids today ...
Jack
Quote from: ColonelJack on June 30, 2014, 08:39:17 PM
Quote from: cdbz26 on June 30, 2014, 08:06:31 PM
i have yet to be given any grammar test in cap if i receive one i will pass with flying colors i use punctuation when needed and im perceived very well by those around me which include several colonels, im doing very well in cap ive accomplished more in months then most in my unit have in years.
You're writing something. Therefore, punctuation is needed.
Jeez, kids today ...
Jack
Sir, don't you mean "yr rting smthg & punct isnt ndd?" ;)
Quote from: ColonelJack on June 30, 2014, 08:36:15 PM
Dang, Angus, you put yours up there while I was writing mine.
Still, the lesson is a good one.
Jack
Jack I do like we both went with the same example just with the interchangeable grandparent. There were a few others I could have used but I like the use of the grandparents it makes the example mean more.
I like the "Eats, shoots and leaves" example, but that's spelling too...
http://www.amazon.com/Eats-Shoots-Leaves-Tolerance-Punctuation/dp/1592402038 (http://www.amazon.com/Eats-Shoots-Leaves-Tolerance-Punctuation/dp/1592402038)
Quote from: cdbz26 on June 30, 2014, 08:17:12 PM
i dont appreciate being talked down to and i will make it as far as i want to in cap despite any interference from others, i am not worried about it. i already have very good friends in very high places ;D
With that attitude you will go as far as you want until you need approval by your chain of command (for instance attending any event)
I was not going to jump on the bandwagon but i changed my mind ok here goes nothing you need to use proper punctuation and grammar exspecialy as a senir memeber because how are you going to be takin seriously i mean for realy realz yo no oen is going to take u seriously if you cant even form a grammaikally proper sentence jees i mean would you really write a letter to the wing commander the way u r takin here like a illieterate cadet even in real life would you write a letter to someone important like this? Proper grammar and sentence formation and spelling and capitalization are very important. Do you see the difference in what I did here? Can you follow what I am writing now as opposed to what I wrote prior to the question mark?
No one can understand and no one has time to re-read a run on sentence like that. Calm the f*** down, use some of the grammar and punctuation you were supposedly taught in school, and start acting like an adult.
Or I swear by my pretty bonnet I will end you....r attitude.
Quote from: cdbz26 on June 30, 2014, 08:17:12 PM
i dont appreciate being talked down to and i will make it as far as i want to in cap despite any interference from others, i am not worried about it. i already have very good friends in very high places ;D
I don't believe that anyone here is trying to talk down to you, they are trying to help you understand that on this forum, we expect that proper grammar and punctuation be used. I case you haven't noticed, many of those who have replied to you ARE people in high places, and quite frankly, your tone and defensiveness aren't winning you any friends here. Most of the people on this board are more than willing to offer you sound advice based on their many years of CAP experience. I don't believe that it is too much to ask of someone that they follow the conventions of the forum and display common courtesy when they come and ask for advice.
when i signed up i was not told that proper grammar was a requirement thank you for letting me know
Quote from: cdbz26 on June 30, 2014, 09:02:01 PM
when i signed up i was not told that proper grammar was a requirement thank you for letting me know
It's not necessarily a "requirement" but it certainly helps your credibility, especially in written form.
I have trouble believing you're a senior member.
Regardless...if you took such an attitude in person with most of the people on this board (who quite probably overwhelmingly outrank you), I do not think you'd like the results. The results you are already getting tend to speak volumes.
Troll?
Quote from: arajca on June 30, 2014, 09:20:36 PM
Troll?
No, just another in a long series of young "adults" who think that text-speak will get them through life. I'm not kidding, I really will shred the first essay I am asked to grade that is written like this.
i would speak differently in person and in uniform but as i said before this is a unofficial forum and i was simply looking for help with something and got crucified for my grammar skills. if i write an article for cap i assure you all proper grammar will be used. im sure no one punctuates in a text message either. and you would know i am a senior member when u saw me in that capacity but outside of cap i loosen up.
Quote from: arajca on June 30, 2014, 09:20:36 PM
Troll?
Sadly no, he is a member of a cadet squadron in group 3 here, as was indicated before his edit. Eventually he will learn no way or another.
Quote from: cdbz20 on June 30, 2014, 09:29:39 PM
i would speak differently in person and in uniform but as i said before this is a unofficial forum and i was simply looking for help with something and got crucified for my grammar skills. if i write an article for cap i assure you all proper grammar will be used. im sure no one punctuates in a text message either. and you would know i am a senior member when u saw me in that capacity but outside of cap i loosen up.
First of all, nobody "crucified" you.
If anything, there has been more criticism of your
attitude than your grammar.
i would never write an essay like this i am not in class right now
my "attitude" is from so many people wanting to talk about my grammar instead of the posted issue i guess i was wrong to think i could get help here.
Quote from: cdbz20 on June 30, 2014, 09:29:39 PM
i would speak differently in person and in uniform but as i said before this is a unofficial forum and i was simply looking for help with something and got crucified for my grammar skills. if i write an article for cap i assure you all proper grammar will be used. im sure no one punctuates in a text message either. and you would know i am a senior member when u saw me in that capacity but outside of cap i loosen up.
In the real world, everything you say, do, write, etc. is a test, and you're always being graded.
Quote from: JeffDG on June 30, 2014, 08:43:16 PM
I like the "Eats, shoots and leaves" example, but that's spelling too...
http://www.amazon.com/Eats-Shoots-Leaves-Tolerance-Punctuation/dp/1592402038 (http://www.amazon.com/Eats-Shoots-Leaves-Tolerance-Punctuation/dp/1592402038)
That is my kid's favorite joke. I am glad.you mentioned it. I was about to become belligerent with the OP. Now I am just too busy giggling....
spaatzmom idk what your problem with me is but i dont have an issue that i need to learn about i am doing very well in cap i did not come on here to get an english lesson i came for help.
Quote from: cdbz20 on June 30, 2014, 09:32:35 PM
my "attitude" is from so many people wanting to talk about my grammar instead of the posted issue i guess i was wrong to think i could get help here.
Help? You were given an order by your COMMANDER (look that word up, Webster...) and you came here to gripe about it. Consider yourself lucky you are not under my command or you would have your walking papers, lad....
Quote from: cdbz20 on June 30, 2014, 09:35:06 PM
spaatzmom idk what your problem with me is but i dont have an issue that i need to learn about i am doing very well in cap i did not come on here to get an english lesson i came for help.
If you don't have enough respect for those you're asking for help to put forth the effort to write properly and use appropriate grammar and punctuation, don't expect them to put forth much effort to assist you.
Quote from: Garibaldi on June 30, 2014, 09:25:37 PM
Quote from: arajca on June 30, 2014, 09:20:36 PM
Troll?
No, just another in a long series of young "adults" who think that text-speak will get them through life. I'm not kidding, I really will shred the first essay I am asked to grade that is written like this.
In my history classes I return papers immediately upon finding the first thing in "text-speak" and require that the entire paper be re-written, minus the faddish nonsense.
To the Original Poster, consider: The harder you defend your decision to be lazy in your writing skills, the less seriously we (and anyone else whom you may need to contact) will take you, and the more you look like a stubborn little kid who has been proven he is wrong but insists he is right nonetheless. Write properly, please. It may take an extra second or two, but it will be worth it in the long run. (In the short run, too.)
Jack
Quote from: cdbz20 on June 30, 2014, 09:32:35 PM
my "attitude" is from so many people wanting to talk about my grammar instead of the posted issue i guess i was wrong to think i could get help here.
You're issue was discussed and solved several posts ago mainly the problem is as stated is your attitude towards the help you are receiving yet you dont seem the need to take the advise you were given nor do you want to change the way you are writing by the way i have a degree in journalism and a minor in english and i am a cap major and i write for a living how does this look to you one professional to another
Quote from: cdbz20 on June 30, 2014, 09:35:06 PM
spaatzmom idk what your problem with me is but i dont have an issue that i need to learn about i am doing very well in cap i did not come on here to get an english lesson i came for help.
idk? What the heck is an "idk"?
Jack
Quote from: ColonelJack on June 30, 2014, 09:39:11 PM
Quote from: cdbz20 on June 30, 2014, 09:35:06 PM
spaatzmom idk what your problem with me is but i dont have an issue that i need to learn about i am doing very well in cap i did not come on here to get an english lesson i came for help.
idk? What the heck is an "idk"?
Jack
It's a "text-speak" abbreviation for "I don't know."
Quote from: CyBorg on June 30, 2014, 09:41:31 PM
Quote from: ColonelJack on June 30, 2014, 09:39:11 PM
Quote from: cdbz20 on June 30, 2014, 09:35:06 PM
spaatzmom idk what your problem with me is but i dont have an issue that i need to learn about i am doing very well in cap i did not come on here to get an english lesson i came for help.
idk? What the heck is an "idk"?
Jack
It's a "text-speak" abbreviation for "I don't know."
oic
Quote from: CyBorg on June 30, 2014, 09:41:31 PM
Quote from: ColonelJack on June 30, 2014, 09:39:11 PM
Quote from: cdbz20 on June 30, 2014, 09:35:06 PM
spaatzmom idk what your problem with me is but i dont have an issue that i need to learn about i am doing very well in cap i did not come on here to get an english lesson i came for help.
idk? What the heck is an "idk"?
Jack
It's a "text-speak" abbreviation for "I don't know."
'
Well, then, why the heck didn't he say so?
Jack
orders are not always correct and in fact i found out that i was correct he cannot order me to never contact national. and if someone asked me for help i dont first demand they write a proper sentence if i am ever in your history class i will use the most proper grammar there is and i sagest you guys relax we are not in class or a cap meeting
Quote from: ColonelJack on June 30, 2014, 09:42:47 PM
Quote from: CyBorg on June 30, 2014, 09:41:31 PM
Quote from: ColonelJack on June 30, 2014, 09:39:11 PM
Quote from: cdbz20 on June 30, 2014, 09:35:06 PM
spaatzmom idk what your problem with me is but i dont have an issue that i need to learn about i am doing very well in cap i did not come on here to get an english lesson i came for help.
idk? What the heck is an "idk"?
Jack
He did not want to make the effort, sir.
It's a "text-speak" abbreviation for "I don't know."
'
Well, then, why the heck didn't he say so?
Jack
He didn't want to make the effort, Sir.
Definite troll
Quote from: cdbz20 on June 30, 2014, 09:43:10 PM
orders are not always correct and in fact i found out that i was correct he cannot order me to never contact national. and if someone asked me for help i dont first demand they write a proper sentence if i am ever in your history class i will use the most proper grammar there is and i sagest you guys relax we are not in class or a cap meeting
*facepalm*
Jack
Quote from: cdbz20 on June 30, 2014, 09:43:10 PM
orders are not always correct and in fact i found out that i was correct he cannot order me to never contact national. and if someone asked me for help i dont first demand they write a proper sentence if i am ever in your history class i will use the most proper grammar there is and i sagest you guys relax we are not in class or a cap meeting
And just where did you find out that he cannot order you to "never contact National?"
Be specific and cite regulations.
I am a Captain and have a Master rating in Administration so the chances are fairly good that I have a bit better knowledge of the regulations than you perhaps do.
Friends, I am beginning to smell a rat here.
Didn't we have to deal with someone who had the same attitude toward spelling and grammar (and the "help" he wanted from us) a few months back?
Or ... (shudder) ... are there more people who are so bloody lazy out there?
Jack
i make the effort in a professional setting but when i am relaxed yes i write like this i cannot type fast using punctuation so i dont use it unless i have to and i will happy to do so if whoever runs this site tells me its a requirement from cap or by them
Quote from: cdbz20 on June 30, 2014, 09:43:10 PM
orders are not always correct and in fact i found out that i was correct he cannot order me to never contact national. and if someone asked me for help i dont first demand they write a proper sentence if i am ever in your history class i will use the most proper grammar there is and i sagest you guys relax we are not in class or a cap meeting
there is such a thing as acting like an adult in the way u communicate with one another it makes no since what so ever not to use proper grammar and punctuation when discussing anything even in a forum like this because those from the old school of learning to speak properly run out of breathe trying to read a run on sentence like this without punctuation the mind wants to take a brake from reading every now and then we old people do not have the same attention span you younger people do so do us a favor and adapt and you will find your life so much easier now for your issue yes they can order you to not talk to national or even wing for that matter but it is not a really enforceable order no one can tell you not to to talk to someone about anything just keep them informed and in the loop about what you are doing in case someone does have a fit and wants to know why the chain of command was not followed there are at least 2 ore 3 steps between you and national and you jumped over most of them so ya he has a right to tell you to stop
Quote from: cdbz20 on June 30, 2014, 09:47:31 PM
i make the effort in a professional setting but when i am relaxed yes i write like this i cannot type fast using punctuation so i dont use it unless i have to and i will happy to do so if whoever runs this site tells me its a requirement from cap or by them
Hey, sport ... you
are in a professional setting here. There are people from squadron level up through National Headquarters who read these forums.
Get with the program. Grow the hell up.
Jack
oh so i am a rat now am i well i suppose as long as its in proper grammar then insults are ok i would expect more from a colonel
Quote from: cdbz20 on June 30, 2014, 09:49:21 PM
oh so i am a rat now am i well i suppose as long as its in proper grammar then insults are ok i would expect more from a colonel
Your homework: Look up the etymology of the phrase, "I smell a rat."
Hint - it has nothing whatsoever to do with rodents.
Here endeth the lesson.
Jack
....aaaand ban in
3.....2.....
Quote from: cdbz20 on June 30, 2014, 09:47:31 PM
i make the effort in a professional setting but when i am relaxed yes i write like this i cannot type fast using punctuation so i dont use it unless i have to and i will happy to do so if whoever runs this site tells me its a requirement from cap or by them
Again, it's a simple matter of respect for those you are seeking help from, not a "requirement" by CAP or the administrators of this site.
But, I'm just about certain that you're just a troll...
Quote from: cdbz20 on June 30, 2014, 07:52:35 PM
i dont know anyone who cant read something because its missing a few commas or colons im not writing a book or news article if i didnt care i wouldn't be in cap or on this site.
Tell me what I am trying to say in this sentence:
Woman without her man is nothing
I am betting you are a troll.
Quote from: cdbz20 on June 30, 2014, 07:02:38 PM
I have been ordered to stop talking to people at national headquarters, i needed help restoring lost records and ... further justifying my action.
Wow ... step away from the Red Bull. Anyways the squeeky wheel does get the grease. But bless your heart and have fun on the dark side, BTW you are not 12 anymore 8)
Quote from: cdbz20 on June 30, 2014, 09:35:06 PM
spaatzmom idk what your problem with me is but i dont have an issue that i need to learn about i am doing very well in cap i did not come on here to get an english lesson i came for help.
Oh my, where to begin. I have no problem with you specifically, other than the total lack of something you should have learned as a cadet ---- R E S P E C T. Respect for those older than you, above you in rank, and even worse respect for yourself. You asked for help and it was given many times; and yet you have chosen to ignore it. We have all seen that the problem is bigger than just getting cadet achievements listed, which baring a few have zero bearing on the senior side. You have called out your commander who is not able to defend himself if he chose to here. That is a serious breach of protocol. So, from here forward, if you choose to continue in this manner, whatever else happens is on you no one else. Own it, it is yours.
Quote from: ColonelJack on June 30, 2014, 09:47:12 PM
Friends, I am beginning to smell a rat here.
Didn't we have to deal with someone who had the same attitude toward spelling and grammar (and the "help" he wanted from us) a few months back?
Or ... (shudder) ... are there more people who are so bloody lazy out there?
Jack
No, there are quite a few more like this out there. Sadly. It really bent my brain trying to type like that. I mean, it really HURT. I don't see how they can do it and not lose some IQ points in the process.
Quote from: cdbz20 on June 30, 2014, 09:49:21 PM
oh so i am a rat now am i well i suppose as long as its in proper grammar then insults are ok i would expect more from a colonel
Not a very good idea to be dissing colonels ('full bird' and 'telephone').
he dissed me by calling me a rat i dont care what rank you are i have no respect for someone calling me a rat and spattzmom i did not call out my commander and i dont care about your threats u cant do anything to me
Quote from: cdbz20 on June 30, 2014, 09:59:48 PM
he dissed me by calling me a rat i dont care what rank you are i have no respect for someone calling me a rat and spattzmom i did not call out my commander and i dont care about your threats u cant do anything to me
But I can.
stop this now.
Quote from: cdbz20 on June 30, 2014, 09:59:48 PM
he dissed me by calling me a rat i dont care what rank you are i have no respect for someone calling me a rat and spattzmom i did not call out my commander and i dont care about your threats u cant do anything to me
:)Oh this is getting funny. There have been no threats what so ever. Please go re read your initial post and a few others where you did call out your commander.
Quote from: cdbz20 on June 30, 2014, 09:59:48 PM
he dissed me by calling me a rat i dont care what rank you are i have no respect for someone calling me a rat and spattzmom i did not call out my commander and i dont care about your threats u cant do anything to me
I believe his exact wording was "I smell a rat" as opposed to "Hey, there's a rat!" At any rate, yes, there are a lot of things that can be done. Don't forget that there are many, many people we can contact and your career in CAP will come to an abrupt and unpleasant close. It's what happens when we old people make friends in the 25+ years we have in the program, making friends and contacts.
Don't piss us off. Oh, too late. >:D
My my, the threshold of the word "threat" is certainly low these days, isn't it?
Point out practical reality to a young man and the next thing you know he's being threatened.
SM Collier - you posted here, in the open, with your full contact information and unit, you asked if
a CC has the authority to do something, and we pointed out that, in fact, he does.
We then suggested your universe would be considerably less dramatic if you used proper grammar and
punctuation, and you don't want to hear that.
So be it, no one here is surprised you're having issues with something that should be fairly simple to
accomplish, or that you circumvented the chain because you "know better", or for that matter that you
are apparently a college student who recently returned to CAP as a senior member, the behavior speaks for itself,
which should be indicator enough for you what the right vector is.
Quote from: ddbz20 on June 30, 2014, 09:59:48 PM
he dissed me by calling me a rat i dont care what rank you are i have no respect for someone calling me a rat and spattzmom i did not call out my commander and i dont care about your threats u cant do anything to me
You don't care about rank? You had better be sure you tack "SIR" or "MA'AM" or correct rank title onto the end of that when you say anything to a superior officer/NCO.
Nobody has threatened you, but as Colonel Bagley and Captain Mora have told you, so do I: "KNOCK IT OFF. END IT NOW."
You do NOT know who is viewing this board and it could come home and bite you in the empennage.
Quote from: Capt. Joe Mora on June 30, 2014, 10:03:14 PM
Quote from: cdbz20 on June 30, 2014, 09:59:48 PM
he dissed me by calling me a rat i dont care what rank you are i have no respect for someone calling me a rat and spattzmom i did not call out my commander and i dont care about your threats u cant do anything to me
But I can.
stop this now.
Ouch. That's gotta sting some.
Quote from: Capt. Joe Mora on June 30, 2014, 10:03:14 PM
Quote from: cdbz20 on June 30, 2014, 09:59:48 PM
he dissed me by calling me a rat i dont care what rank you are i have no respect for someone calling me a rat and spattzmom i did not call out my commander and i dont care about your threats u cant do anything to me
But I can.
stop this now.
THAT'S gonna leave a mark.
Jack
Quote from: Garibaldi on June 30, 2014, 10:07:29 PM
Quote from: Capt. Joe Mora on June 30, 2014, 10:03:14 PM
Quote from: cdbz20 on June 30, 2014, 09:59:48 PM
he dissed me by calling me a rat i dont care what rank you are i have no respect for someone calling me a rat and spattzmom i did not call out my commander and i dont care about your threats u cant do anything to me
But I can.
stop this now.
Ouch. That's gotta sting some.
Methinks he got a 'Slammer' up his six. (And that warhead does some serious damage when it hits...!)
there is no mark or sting :)
Since I have the time, there's something that I have been thinking about for a while now. It's called the "court of public opinion."
Basically, I have noticed over the years that the more technologically advanced we get, with the instant news on the internet, 25 hour a day, 8 days a week news coverage, that an individual gets less of a fair trial now than 20, even 10 years ago.
This is exactly the sort of thing that I have been thinking of regarding this thread and others.
This SM(?) has become a victim of his own hubris. Not having the luxury of circumspection for this 5 page, 90 minute long thread, he has gone from innocent to guilty of several charges without the ability to realize the extent of his action and its unexpected, yet wholly expected, outcome in literally 0 seconds flat.
People are often sentenced in the minds of the public long before the actual discovery phase of the trial starts. In this particular case, we have arrested, tried, and executed him in lightning quick form. Right now, he has been vilified in this little community of ours. The bystanders, flooded with "facts", have already written him off as a lost cause, myself included.
This ain't right, to coin a phrase. I am guilty as well of dog-piling and egging the situation on, which is my wont, I suppose.
But it doesn't make it right.
So, back to my original premise. The actions of the individual are so quick to be judged by the rest of us that the accused, for lack of a better term, is backed into a corner so quick that rationality and circumspection can't come into play when attempting to defend himself. Or herself. So, the insults fly, things get said that can't be taken back, especially in a written forum that keeps records for years. In effect, not only have we punished him, he has punished HIMSELF by reacting to us. Too many facts flying around, so much information, that we can't begin to comprehend what it is we are hearing, seeing, reading, so it is a knee-jerk reaction that makes us say "guilty" or "not guilty" without being able to sit back and process.
This is sort of what happened here today. Words flew, anger was had, blood pressure was raised, and in the end, instead of accepting the help he really needed, he turns and fights back out of, what, fear? Insecurity? Anger? Whatever. We judged him without being able to take the time to really figure out what the problem was.
And that is what I really am getting at, mostly. We so often rush to judge, and the internet and its anonymity makes it easy to do so, but it's even easier to forget that these words can be printed, copied, saved, for ammo for a future time.
So, with this in mind, what I said earlier is very true. It's hard to argue with the written word, especially if presented to your leadership as an example. It's happened before, many times, and once this sort of thing is out in the open, your name is pretty much mud. It's not a threat, it's the reality of the situation. Make the wrong person angry, or display the immaturity of a 12 year old, and it's all downhill.
/rant
Quote from: ddbz20 on June 30, 2014, 10:23:10 PM
there is no mark or sting :)
And you are still talking? Were you born ignorant of your surroundings or was there some training involved? I hope you enjoyed being a Cadet because you are on track to have a very short SM career. Thankfully. That way your semieducated self absorbed attitude will not infect any members under your supervision. I hope you will not approach the rest of your life like this or you will find yourself bouncing from loser job to loser job. Take the advice that you are being given. Shut your mouth, delete your account, turn off the computer and call your CO to apologize. Now.
To the issue, and away from the specific individual, this is exactly the kind of thing we need to be
teaching our young people, especially cadets, and one of the huge risks and pitfalls of "social" media.
Behavior like this doesn't spring out over night, nor the pushback when corrected, it's more then likely
been tolerated by most of his "peers", which is why there is always such a "what's the big deal?" response here.
As to the court of public opinion, people tend to be who they are, discounting for this actually being a troll attempt.
As they speak and "tell their tale", their attitudes and demeanor tend to come out, framing the
"wrongs" that have been so grievously perpetrated against them by society. This idea that
if you speak (type) fast enough to not let anyone else get a breath you will "win" rarely works, but seems pretty common these days
both in person and especially online.
How many times do we get someone who signs up, asks a question and then says "Hm...guess I was wrong. Will correct and move on."
vs. "Can u due ths?" And when the answer is "Yes." the response is U knt tell me whut 2 do, this is unficshal, chill man."
When I was a child, my friends and I used to have a circular argument going like; "I know you are, but what am I?" I think we were 4 or 5 years old at the time. Somehow, this thread reminds me of those days long ago...
In any event, I have a strong feeling this young SM has been "outed", and will soon understand what "core values", and CAPR 110-1 violations are all about. Now I must find another packet of popcorn to microwave. ::)
I have no more to say on this matter, so I will graciously accept some of that popcorn you're not offering, COL! >:D
Quote from: Garibaldi on June 30, 2014, 10:53:18 PM
I have no more to say on this matter, so I will graciously accept some of that popcorn you're not offering, COL! >:D
Dr Pepper is on ice...
i hope you all enjoy your popcorn make sure it has extra butter
Although I do agree - basically - with the premise stated here, that the OP should practice proper grammar, I also have to state we do have our own equivalent of "texting abbreviation."
WIWAC. OP. C/SSgT. CC. CAPR. CAPM.
Should I continue?
But wait, OP. You see how using caps and lower case helps? By typing all these abbreviations in upper and lower case do help us understand these are special cases.
If we type OP, we and everyone else knows we are referring to the "Original Poster." And not to a word typed by mistake. Or when we type CAPM means we are talking about CAP manuals, and not that we made a typing mistake...
Quote from: Luis R. Ramos on July 01, 2014, 12:05:57 AM
Although I do agree - basically - with the premise stated here, that the OP should practice proper grammar, I also have to state we do have our own equivalent of "texting abbreviation."
WIWAC. OP. C/SSgT. CC. CAPR. CAPM.
Should I continue?
But wait, OP. You see how using caps and lower case helps? By typing all these abbreviations in upper and lower case do help us understand these are special cases.
If we type OP, we and everyone else knows we are referring to the "Original Poster." And not to a word typed by mistake. Or when we type CAPM means we are talking about CAP manuals, and not that we made a typing mistake...
Those are all commonly accepted abbreviations, agreed to here and by the universe at large. Text abbreviations should be kept to the venue of them new fangled cellularized telephones.
Quote from: Luis R. Ramos on July 01, 2014, 12:05:57 AM
Although I do agree - basically - with the premise stated here, that the OP should practice proper grammar, I also have to state we do have our own equivalent of "texting abbreviation."
WIWAC. OP. C/SSgT. CC. CAPR. CAPM.
Should I continue?
But wait, OP. You see how using caps and lower case helps? By typing all these abbreviations in upper and lower case do help us understand these are special cases.
If we type OP, we and everyone else knows we are referring to the "Original Poster." And not to a word typed by mistake. Or when we type CAPM means we are talking about CAP manuals, and not that we made a typing mistake...
the diff is that your post has abbreviations not some random collection of misspelled wurds that make you look like you had trouble getting out of the third grade and those are accepted professional abbreviations not some bilge created to meet the 140 character limit but there may be a point here about not usin punctuation but i think im gonna have a stroke from trying to not puke while typing this lol-ing out loud...
Quote from: THRAWN on July 01, 2014, 12:21:56 AM
Quote from: Luis R. Ramos on July 01, 2014, 12:05:57 AM
Although I do agree - basically - with the premise stated here, that the OP should practice proper grammar, I also have to state we do have our own equivalent of "texting abbreviation."
WIWAC. OP. C/SSgT. CC. CAPR. CAPM.
Should I continue?
But wait, OP. You see how using caps and lower case helps? By typing all these abbreviations in upper and lower case do help us understand these are special cases.
If we type OP, we and everyone else knows we are referring to the "Original Poster." And not to a word typed by mistake. Or when we type CAPM means we are talking about CAP manuals, and not that we made a typing mistake...
the diff is that your post has abbreviations not some random collection of misspelled wurds that make you look like you had trouble getting out of the third grade and those are accepted professional abbreviations not some bilge created to meet the 140 character limit but there may be a point here about not usin punctuation but i think im gonna have a stroke from trying to not puke while typing this lol-ing out loud...
You too? I about had an aneurysm trying to type like he did.
thrawn since you are addressing me who is not the op i am writing to you the same way to young ones these texting abbreviations are equal not random
Why didn't anyone even suggested that if he starts writing correctly, he will remember the correct spelling/punctuation to use when typing? Making him write faster...
Quote from: THRAWN on June 30, 2014, 10:37:43 PM
Were you born ignorant of your surroundings or was there some training involved?
As my DCPO used to say, "Ignorance can be cured, but stupidity is forever."
Okay.
Let's agree that, like many things, context is important.
We dress nice when we go to weddings and church.
We wear the right uniform base on the job we are going to do.
We use abbreviations when appropriate to the audience.
Finally we use punctuation when appropriate.
Okay....two teens texting the OMGs and ROLFs....sure no punctuation required.
This is is CAP TALK and the unwritten rule here is that the collective we are going to expect those who post here follow some basic rules.
Just as at the squadron meeting, I want to see correct spelling and good punctuation on your formal correspondence.
That said. The OP was called on his punctuational....politely I might add.....and responded in a manner not meeting the collective standards of this forum.
Beyond that....there is very little left to say.
Quote from: Luis R. Ramos on July 01, 2014, 12:29:57 AM
thrawn since you are addressing me who is not the op i am writing to you the same way to young ones these texting abbreviations are equal not random
Why didn't anyone even suggested that if he starts writing correctly, he will remember the correct spelling/punctuation to use when typing? Making him write faster...
Deaf ears, Luis....deaf ears...he doesn't see anything wrong, as as young adult, in what he is doing. It will serve him well in his future endeavors at Burger King or the local Waffle House.
Now both Gari and Lord put it in context! Great posts of both of you to summarize what I have read here.
At 59, I have started using that, loosely speaking, "writing style" with my girlfriend who is younger. I always got rattled when she abbreviated "U" for "you." Generally speaking I do not abbreviate when I text others. However once I tried to do it with some people more my age whom I work as a part-timer who abbreviated their texts but they wrote back "I don't understand you."
The idea of character limitations isn't even really a "thing" anymore, nor is the need for 3l33t3 speak
or whatever the abbreviation-laden gibberish is called these days.
Any decent text service will break up a long message into multiple SMS', and between auto-correct
and speech recognition, you actually have to work harder to use that kind of nonsense.
With that said, if your idea needs more then a coherent sentence, SMS is the incorrect medium.
Allstate mayhem commercial - Dean Winters as Teenage Girl in Pink Truck (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vtP-S9OS0o0#ws)
Quote from: ddbz20 on June 30, 2014, 08:07:10 PMi never called anyone at cap i emailed them.
If the conversations went anything like this, no wonder they told you to stop.
It's not just about the message, it's about the delivery vehicle, too. If you come in looking like a mess, that's the first impression they are going to get.
If you came to me speaking slop and gibberish, in a long run on manner, I would probably have dismissed anything you had to say and excused myself.
In posting on an open forum, you're speaking to many, and it's for all intents a permanent record.
Good luck with that outlook.
Otherwise I have found NHQ extremely helpful, willing to bend over backwards to help get something done, cleared up, etc. so I can't imagine what it would take for someone to pull that option of regulating your contact to someone else.
Quote from: Garibaldi on June 30, 2014, 10:53:18 PM
I have no more to say on this matter, so I will graciously accept some of that popcorn you're not offering, COL! >:D
Time to cook up some Hawaiian Hurricane popcorn (butter popcorn, arare (sesame soy crackers) and furikake (finely ground nori, sesame seeds and katsuoboshi (dried bonito) flakes)!
Quote from: AlphaSigOU on July 01, 2014, 01:29:22 AM
Quote from: Garibaldi on June 30, 2014, 10:53:18 PM
I have no more to say on this matter, so I will graciously accept some of that popcorn you're not offering, COL! >:D
Time to cook up some Hawaiian Hurricane popcorn (butter popcorn, arare (sesame soy crackers) and furikake (finely ground nori, sesame seeds and katsuoboshi (dried bonito) flakes)!
It's not pahu pana or whatever...
Quote from: Garibaldi on July 01, 2014, 01:30:30 AM
Quote from: AlphaSigOU on July 01, 2014, 01:29:22 AM
Quote from: Garibaldi on June 30, 2014, 10:53:18 PM
I have no more to say on this matter, so I will graciously accept some of that popcorn you're not offering, COL! >:D
Time to cook up some Hawaiian Hurricane popcorn (butter popcorn, arare (sesame soy crackers) and furikake (finely ground nori, sesame seeds and katsuoboshi (dried bonito) flakes)!
It's not pahu pana or whatever...
Pau hana! :) Time to crack open a Kona Longboard lager...
DDbz
You only get one opportunity to make a first impression. In a forum like Cap Talk that impression is based on how you communicate. By not taking advantage of common usage, you present yourself badly. The fact that you claim to be able to write well, but choose not to, makes that impression even worse.
Quote from: AlphaSigOU on July 01, 2014, 01:32:55 AM
Quote from: Garibaldi on July 01, 2014, 01:30:30 AM
Quote from: AlphaSigOU on July 01, 2014, 01:29:22 AM
Quote from: Garibaldi on June 30, 2014, 10:53:18 PM
I have no more to say on this matter, so I will graciously accept some of that popcorn you're not offering, COL! >:D
Time to cook up some Hawaiian Hurricane popcorn (butter popcorn, arare (sesame soy crackers) and furikake (finely ground nori, sesame seeds and katsuoboshi (dried bonito) flakes)!
It's not pahu pana or whatever...
Pau hana! :) Time to crack open a Kona Longboard lager...
Now I crave some chicken long rice and Spam musubi.
This thread reminds me of some advice I received as a teenager. You always need to be mindful of what you say to and around others because you never know what kind of connections they have.
I still have a problem typing text messages. When I type I still spell out all my words and never use abbreviations. I still try to use proper grammar even when I do text. I found that I type faster, because that is the way I was taught to type. I may use LOL some, but that is about it. I feel typing any other way is just lazy. There are some on CAP Talk that use different abbreviations that I have found that I needed to look up just to understand what they were saying. IMHO was one of them. If I see someone post without punctuation and have a sentence that is a paragraph long, I usually just skip it. It gives me a headache.
Quote from: Garibaldi on July 01, 2014, 01:30:30 AM
Quote from: AlphaSigOU on July 01, 2014, 01:29:22 AM
Quote from: Garibaldi on June 30, 2014, 10:53:18 PM
I have no more to say on this matter, so I will graciously accept some of that popcorn you're not offering, COL! >:D
Time to cook up some Hawaiian Hurricane popcorn (butter popcorn, arare (sesame soy crackers) and furikake (finely ground nori, sesame seeds and katsuoboshi (dried bonito) flakes)!
It's not pahu pana or whatever...
Much like 5 o'clock, it's always pau hana somewhere in the universe. 8)
Just thought I'd share this little missive I recieved this morning. Since I have nothing to hide, I submit it here for your amusement:
Im not intimidated by your threat that i know for a fact you cannot make good on, i don't care who you call, you cannot have my career ended unless you make faulty allegations which wouldn't be very cap of you and would not get you far, you might want to focus on your squadron instead of making empty threats on the internet which by the way is in violation of CAPR 110-1 if that means anything to you. do it again and i will report you to the inspector general.
Perhaps I should quit now and spare him the trouble. I am literally shaking in my shoes. An IG call? Ok, I'm packing it in. I quit.
Great Scott. Even in his private threat messages he can't spell goodly. I am bored. I will just send the thread to his wing.
Quote from: THRAWN on July 01, 2014, 02:18:44 PM
Great Scott. Even in his private threat messages he can't spell goodly. I am bored. I will just send the thread to his wing.
I may be wrong about this, but I believe that his squadron commander announced his presence (and was ignored by the OP) in Reply #81 here: http://captalk.net/index.php?topic=19042.msg349385#msg349385 (http://captalk.net/index.php?topic=19042.msg349385#msg349385)
Quote from: Garibaldi on July 01, 2014, 02:03:57 PM
Just thought I'd share this little missive I recieved this morning. Since I have nothing to hide, I submit it here for your amusement:
Im not intimidated by your threat that i know for a fact you cannot make good on, i don't care who you call, you cannot have my career ended unless you make faulty allegations which wouldn't be very cap of you and would not get you far, you might want to focus on your squadron instead of making empty threats on the internet which by the way is in violation of CAPR 110-1 if that means anything to you. do it again and i will report you to the inspector general.
Perhaps I should quit now and spare him the trouble. I am literally shaking in my shoes. An IG call? Ok, I'm packing it in. I quit.
Gee, now I feel neglected. Oh well, I will survive.
This will be my last post for a while.
After a heated call with my now former CC, I turned in my resignation not 30 minutes ago. She sent me an email about this thread and my participation, and while the conversation regarding said thread had nothing to do with my decision, I realised a couple of things about myself.
1. I am not a nice person, and
b. I have lost my objectivity regarding CAP.
Let this be a lesson to you, SM whoever you are. ANYONE can read this forum, and take whatever action they deem necessary. My commander didn't really care for the way I handled things and called me on it. No punishment was forthcoming, just a stern warning about what I, and everyone else has said, regarding appearance and decorum.
I urge you to stop high-fiving yourself because you had nothing to do with my decision to leave. Your body count still remains at zero.
I'll still be around, lurking, posting when I feel the need.
Y'all take care, now.
Quote from: NC Hokie on July 01, 2014, 02:51:42 PM
Quote from: THRAWN on July 01, 2014, 02:18:44 PM
Great Scott. Even in his private threat messages he can't spell goodly. I am bored. I will just send the thread to his wing.
I may be wrong about this, but I believe that his squadron commander announced his presence (and was ignored by the OP) in Reply #81 here: http://captalk.net/index.php?topic=19042.msg349385#msg349385 (http://captalk.net/index.php?topic=19042.msg349385#msg349385)
You would not be incorrect in your assumption.
Quote from: NC Hokie on July 01, 2014, 02:51:42 PM
Quote from: THRAWN on July 01, 2014, 02:18:44 PM
Great Scott. Even in his private threat messages he can't spell goodly. I am bored. I will just send the thread to his wing.
I may be wrong about this, but I believe that his squadron commander announced his presence (and was ignored by the OP) in Reply #81 here: http://captalk.net/index.php?topic=19042.msg349385#msg349385 (http://captalk.net/index.php?topic=19042.msg349385#msg349385)
You are not wrong.
Quote from: Garibaldi on July 01, 2014, 03:01:08 PM
This will be my last post for a while.
After a heated call with my now former CC, I turned in my resignation not 30 minutes ago. She sent me an email about this thread and my participation, and while the conversation regarding said thread had nothing to do with my decision, I realised a couple of things about myself.
1. I am not a nice person, and
b. I have lost my objectivity regarding CAP.
Let this be a lesson to you, SM whoever you are. ANYONE can read this forum, and take whatever action they deem necessary. My commander didn't really care for the way I handled things and called me on it. No punishment was forthcoming, just a stern warning about what I, and everyone else has said, regarding appearance and decorum.
I urge you to stop high-fiving yourself because you had nothing to do with my decision to leave. Your body count still remains at zero.
I'll still be around, lurking, posting when I feel the need.
Y'all take care, now.
I am truly saddened to hear of your decision, but it was yours' to make.
Some place in the CAP world a bridge is missing its troll 8)
Quote from: Garibaldi on July 01, 2014, 03:01:08 PM
This will be my last post for a while.
After a heated call with my now former CC, I turned in my resignation not 30 minutes ago. She sent me an email about this thread and my participation ...
Interesting. I would have told her not to forget the punch and cookies for meeting night 8)
Quote from: Bobble on July 01, 2014, 12:38:51 AM
Quote from: THRAWN on June 30, 2014, 10:37:43 PM
Were you born ignorant of your surroundings or was there some training involved?
As my DCPO used to say, "Ignorance can be cured, but stupidity is forever."
"You can not argue with stupid but you can certainly play with it."
― Donna Lynn Hope
Quote from: cdbz20 on June 30, 2014, 07:40:05 PM
on a informal forum i don't see the need for punctuation i never did like it much, and there have been times i needed something else and i tried at unit then group then wing and i just kept getting told to go higher and i figured with a matter like this where i knew no physical record existed since i already spoke to my former commander and former group commander and searched the records at group headquarters myself, there was only one way to do it and i was right and to this day i still cant get some of my other records by having gone through the chain of command it has failed me like i assumed it would in this matter, furthermore i don't see why the contacts for national are public if it is such a offense to contact them.
This was so hard to read without proper punctuation that I stopped reading after the second sentence... Or was it third? It was hard to tell and I just lost interest.
Cool.... this whole mess is going on just up the street from me :)
Quote from: Garibaldi on July 01, 2014, 03:01:08 PM
This will be my last post for a while.
After a heated call with my now former CC, I turned in my resignation not 30 minutes ago. She sent me an email about this thread and my participation, and while the conversation regarding said thread had nothing to do with my decision, I realised a couple of things about myself.
1. I am not a nice person, and
b. I have lost my objectivity regarding CAP.
Let this be a lesson to you, SM whoever you are. ANYONE can read this forum, and take whatever action they deem necessary. My commander didn't really care for the way I handled things and called me on it. No punishment was forthcoming, just a stern warning about what I, and everyone else has said, regarding appearance and decorum.
I urge you to stop high-fiving yourself because you had nothing to do with my decision to leave. Your body count still remains at zero.
I'll still be around, lurking, posting when I feel the need.
Y'all take care, now.
I reread all your posts on this thread and couldn't find anything offensive or inappropriate. At most, all I saw was a bit of sarcasm in some of your posts. Why would your commander make a big deal about your participation on this thread?
Quote from: Garibaldi on July 01, 2014, 03:01:08 PM
This will be my last post for a while.
After a heated call with my now former CC, I turned in my resignation not 30 minutes ago. She sent me an email about this thread and my participation, and while the conversation regarding said thread had nothing to do with my decision, I realised a couple of things about myself.
1. I am not a nice person, and
b. I have lost my objectivity regarding CAP.
Let this be a lesson to you, SM whoever you are. ANYONE can read this forum, and take whatever action they deem necessary. My commander didn't really care for the way I handled things and called me on it. No punishment was forthcoming, just a stern warning about what I, and everyone else has said, regarding appearance and decorum.
I urge you to stop high-fiving yourself because you had nothing to do with my decision to leave. Your body count still remains at zero.
I'll still be around, lurking, posting when I feel the need.
Y'all take care, now.
Ponypoo. You tell it like it is. If that makes you not a nice guy...
Wait. . .what?? did I miss something???? I'm not even sure what happened here?? It was weird, but engrossing reading - but I was thinking it was a prank - did he really resign? Was that OP a real persona? Am I too slow to catch on???
Quote from: Storm Chaser on July 01, 2014, 03:58:34 PM
Quote from: Garibaldi on July 01, 2014, 03:01:08 PM
This will be my last post for a while.
After a heated call with my now former CC, I turned in my resignation not 30 minutes ago. She sent me an email about this thread and my participation, and while the conversation regarding said thread had nothing to do with my decision, I realised a couple of things about myself.
1. I am not a nice person, and
b. I have lost my objectivity regarding CAP.
Let this be a lesson to you, SM whoever you are. ANYONE can read this forum, and take whatever action they deem necessary. My commander didn't really care for the way I handled things and called me on it. No punishment was forthcoming, just a stern warning about what I, and everyone else has said, regarding appearance and decorum.
I urge you to stop high-fiving yourself because you had nothing to do with my decision to leave. Your body count still remains at zero.
I'll still be around, lurking, posting when I feel the need.
Y'all take care, now.
I reread all your posts on this thread and couldn't find anything offensive or inappropriate. At most, all I saw was a bit of sarcasm in some of your posts. Why would your commander make a big deal about your participation on this thread?
Actually, she didn't. She asked if I had written what I had, I owned up to it, and from there the conversation went south. At the end, she said she was just curious and advised me to do the same thing I advised this young future burger flipper, to be careful what I say here. The heated part of the conversation was all me, unrelated to this, and ended with me doing what I had felt like doing for months, after sleeping on it numerous times.
Quote from: SunDog on July 01, 2014, 04:05:16 PM
Wait. . .what?? did I miss something???? I'm not even sure what happened here?? It was weird, but engrossing reading - but I was thinking it was a prank - did he really resign? Was that OP a real persona? Am I too slow to catch on???
Not a joke, SunDog. I really resigned, but not over this. Totally unrelated.
Dang, that's tough.. maybe try stepping away for a while instead, take a break? I tried that a few years back (it didn't work for me, unfortunatley) - but it might work for you? Best of luck, regardless. . .
No Garibaldi Dont Go!!
Quote from: Garibaldi on July 01, 2014, 04:21:42 PM
Quote from: SunDog on July 01, 2014, 04:05:16 PM
Wait. . .what?? did I miss something???? I'm not even sure what happened here?? It was weird, but engrossing reading - but I was thinking it was a prank - did he really resign? Was that OP a real persona? Am I too slow to catch on???
Not a joke, SunDog. I really resigned, but not over this. Totally unrelated.
Quite honestly.. then it was something that was probably brewing for a while. In my experience most CAP members are just holding on. Time, money, time, money...more money and time just isn't something most people can justify. And generally when the straw breaks the camel, its finished.
Garibaldi, I'm not one to talk since I've left CAP before, once after a heated exchange with a former CC.
However, I encourage you to take some time on this. CAP needs people of integrity such as yourself.
But when it goes far beyond "Come And Pay," all the Bravo Sierra about uniforms, the off-on relationship/non-relationship we have with the Air Force, not to mention the personalities and head games, at some point I could potentially see myself pulling the eject handle again.
It sort of accreates - no one big issue, just the preponderance of annoyances add up, and the exit sign starts looking better and better. While CAP is probably more gacked than other organizations, it still isn't a crater. . . . but after enough years, the issues grow more aggravating, and the rewards less tangible, or perhaps less important?
And there is some BTDT, too. Folks grow emotionally fatigued, mucking about with the same clumsy procedures and processes, I think. We truly aren't very well managed or organized, and that tends to wear people down. Maybe I'm just projecting my own mental state regarding CAP? But these things seem to resonate with some other folks on CT.
Early on, you go with the flow, and it doesn't bother you so much. Human nature, I guess. After spending absolute gobs of time on pointless tasks, mucking with bad systems, dealing with a dinosaur bureaucracy, it becomes wearisome. And time to move on. Maybe for the best all around - CAP doesn't need sullen, PO'ed SM's lurking about - get some new blood in, ones who don't mind (for now) the hoops and administrivia. . .
I'm not going into the decision to leave, but suffice to say, everything said is pretty much dead on. It's a cumulative effect, and after a time, you just have to step back and say "enough." I reached that point a couple of times. I left the cadet program when I went into the Army, became a SM 6 years later, left after 14 years, came back AGAIN after 6 years, and am leaving again. Will I be back? I don't know. I'm not closing the door because I believe in this program and its potential. I will still support the program in whatever way I can; I just won't be an active part.
I enjoy the hell out of teaching cadets stuff. From the proper way to wear a uniform to living in the woods, it's all fun for me. What isn't fun is the bureaucracy involved. Paperwork, orders, regulations, constant change, everything that takes away from me having fun teaching and making me unhappy stuck with crap that I'd rather not do. I'm a doer, not an administrator.
It makes me so happy to see a cadet succeed. There is one who visited the unit back in March. Her brother was the one who wanted to join, and when I asked her if she was interested, she said no. By the end of the night, she was begging for the paperwork, and it is a distinct pleasure to be able to send her to NESA...4 months after joining. She has been a big asset to the program; all the cadets are in the unit, and I fully expect her to get her Spaatz before she leaves.
But, those are the small things that make me want to say. The big things make me want to say [Filter Subversion], get out while I still have some sanity. I have never had any ambition to leave the unit level for a group, wing, or region, let alone a National position. I was quite content with being where I was. But, realistically, it's time to say enough is enough, it's time, I am not going any further. I never intended to become a Lt Col, because it's the end of the road. As long as I had the bogus carrot of promotion, it was fine.
Maybe quitting isn't such a great idea after all. I've had some time to think about it, and while I am disgusted with things, perhaps some time off is what is needed. I'll consider that and speak to the commander on Thursday.