Anyone know or have some decent recruiting flyers for Seniors for the ES program?
All the ones from national are not....compelling.
Thanks!
Unfortunately, I don't know how to make it more compelling. You could say that being in CAP ES is kind of like being a NASA astronaut. How, you say? Well, you train and train and train and them you train some more. You go through endless simulations, power points, meetings, etc. Then once every 5-8 years you get to go play for real. >:D
I'd start with this awesome resource: http://www.cadetstuff.org/civil-air-patrol-recruiting-posters/#more-391 (http://www.cadetstuff.org/civil-air-patrol-recruiting-posters/#more-391)
CAP ES isn't "sexy" except to those of us in it. I've tried for many years to come up with a good PR video that would show what we do in a way that would appeal to today's teens. I just can't seem to find it. Not even the kids in CAP that I've talked to can figure it out. It's just not as exciting to the layman.
Show someone HALO jumping into the ocean on NVGs. By the time they figure out its not for real theyll have so much money tied up in uniforms, gear and SLS courses they wont be able to justify quitting!!
If you have ideas or thoughts, please send them to me. I'm interested. Maybe we can make some of those ideas reality.
Quote from: Flying Pig on August 27, 2012, 01:27:35 AM
Show someone HALO jumping into the ocean on NVGs. By the time they figure out its not for real theyll have so much money tied up in uniforms, gear and SLS courses they wont be able to justify quitting!!
What?! That's not for real?! Dang it!
See....you were a Captain before you got it >:D
Yes, and I needed your hint to boot!
Oh well, my HALO days are behind me anyway. 8)
And by HALO, I just mean some civilian and jump club skydiving. I never went to Army jump school, was not in special forces, and did not jump into Pakistan to kill Bin Laden.
Just didn't want someone thinking I was laying claim to something I did not do.
Well, not THOSE ideas.
I had a former commander who claimed he made three(3) night jumps in Vietnam with....drum roll please....the UNITED STATES COAST GUARD. :o
Quote from: David Vandenbroeck on August 28, 2012, 09:59:50 PM
Yes, and I needed your hint to boot!
Oh well, my HALO days are behind me anyway. 8)
And by HALO, I just mean some civilian and jump club skydiving. I never went to Army jump school, was not in special forces, and did not jump into Pakistan to kill Bin Laden.
Just didn't want someone thinking I was laying claim to something I did not do.
Hmmm, weird. I could have sworn that was you next to me when we went off the back ramp of the C130. Oh, wait, it was that Sheen guy....nevermind.
Quote from: ol'fido on August 29, 2012, 02:52:27 AM
I had a former commander who claimed he made three(3) night jumps in Vietnam with....drum roll please....the UNITED STATES COAST GUARD. :o
Obviously a fraud. Everyone knows that the CG Speical Ops only jumped at night over the Laotian - Cambodian frontier.
Quote from: Flying Pig on August 29, 2012, 03:23:10 AM
Quote from: David Vandenbroeck on August 28, 2012, 09:59:50 PM
Yes, and I needed your hint to boot!
Oh well, my HALO days are behind me anyway. 8)
And by HALO, I just mean some civilian and jump club skydiving. I never went to Army jump school, was not in special forces, and did not jump into Pakistan to kill Bin Laden.
Just didn't want someone thinking I was laying claim to something I did not do.
Hmmm, weird. I could have sworn that was you next to me when we went off the back ramp of the C130. Oh, wait, it was that Sheen guy....nevermind.
Martin or Charlie?
Neither. Emilio.
Quote from: SarDragon on August 29, 2012, 11:37:09 PM
Neither. Emilio.
Emilio isn't a Sheen. Martin and Charlie changed their name from Estevez for show business but Martin's brother Joe didn't either.
I knew that. Minor point.
They are all still related. Emilio is just a more incognito Sheen.
Quote from: David Vandenbroeck on August 29, 2012, 10:12:35 PM
Quote from: ol'fido on August 29, 2012, 02:52:27 AM
I had a former commander who claimed he made three(3) night jumps in Vietnam with....drum roll please....the UNITED STATES COAST GUARD. :o
Obviously a fraud. Everyone knows that the CG Speical Ops only jumped at night over the Laotian - Cambodian frontier.
Roger that, and the Auxiliary did HAHO jumps from Burma :clap:
If we could get back onto topic with this one that would be awesome!
I only see flying posters for senior members, but never anything for ground operations. Also, a lot of times I hear ground operations thrown out there to prospective members as a cadet activity. We need to understand and keynote it as an important mission of the Civil Air Patrol, otherwise we will see missions occur less and less until it is no longer even one of our missions.
I would love to see a poster not for recruiting seniors, or cadets, but both. One poster to shed light on the importance of ground operations.
A picture that depicts both seniors and cadets dirty and tired yet bearing a face of pride and accomplishment knowing they completed the mission. The caption states "Last year Civil Air Patrol members saved XX number of lives, and XX amount of dollars. During (INSERT DISASTER NAME HERE) more operators Were needed. Will you answer that call next? "
It would be an honest poster, and I'm sure it would grasp at many who did not know there was such a thing that they could contribute their abilities to.
Quote from: manfredvonrichthofen on August 30, 2012, 12:37:14 PM
If we could get back onto topic with this one that would be awesome!
I only see flying posters for senior members, but never anything for ground operations. Also, a lot of times I hear ground operations thrown out there to prospective members as a cadet activity. We need to understand and keynote it as an important mission of the Civil Air Patrol, otherwise we will see missions occur less and less until it is no longer even one of our missions.
I would love to see a poster not for recruiting seniors, or cadets, but both. One poster to shed light on the importance of ground operations.
A picture that depicts both seniors and cadets dirty and tired yet bearing a face of pride and accomplishment knowing they completed the mission. The caption states "Last year Civil Air Patrol members saved XX number of lives, and XX amount of dollars. During (INSERT DISASTER NAME HERE) more operators Were needed. Will you answer that call next? "
It would be an honest poster, and I'm sure it would grasp at many who did not know there was such a thing that they could contribute their abilities to.
Well, one thing that always gets people is when I tell them that CAP had the only plane flying on 9/11 and the aerial photos of Ground Zero were taken by us. Untold volunteer hours spent in support of Homeland Security and Disaster Relief missions, both local and nationally.
Show pictures of cadets and seniors doing these things.
Quote from: Garibaldi on August 30, 2012, 01:17:49 PM
Quote from: manfredvonrichthofen on August 30, 2012, 12:37:14 PM
If we could get back onto topic with this one that would be awesome!
I only see flying posters for senior members, but never anything for ground operations. Also, a lot of times I hear ground operations thrown out there to prospective members as a cadet activity. We need to understand and keynote it as an important mission of the Civil Air Patrol, otherwise we will see missions occur less and less until it is no longer even one of our missions.
I would love to see a poster not for recruiting seniors, or cadets, but both. One poster to shed light on the importance of ground operations.
A picture that depicts both seniors and cadets dirty and tired yet bearing a face of pride and accomplishment knowing they completed the mission. The caption states "Last year Civil Air Patrol members saved XX number of lives, and XX amount of dollars. During (INSERT DISASTER NAME HERE) more operators Were needed. Will you answer that call next? "
It would be an honest poster, and I'm sure it would grasp at many who did not know there was such a thing that they could contribute their abilities to.
Well, one thing that always gets people is when I tell them that CAP had the only plane flying on 9/11 and the aerial photos of Ground Zero were taken by us. Untold volunteer hours spent in support of Homeland Security and Disaster Relief missions, both local and nationally.
Show pictures of cadets and seniors doing these things.
Yes, but that is again flying, we already have all of our posters and brochures for senior aimed at flying... What about ground operations? It seems to be getting the short end of the recruiting stick.
Quote from: manfredvonrichthofen on August 30, 2012, 01:47:29 PM
Quote from: Garibaldi on August 30, 2012, 01:17:49 PM
Quote from: manfredvonrichthofen on August 30, 2012, 12:37:14 PM
If we could get back onto topic with this one that would be awesome!
I only see flying posters for senior members, but never anything for ground operations. Also, a lot of times I hear ground operations thrown out there to prospective members as a cadet activity. We need to understand and keynote it as an important mission of the Civil Air Patrol, otherwise we will see missions occur less and less until it is no longer even one of our missions.
I would love to see a poster not for recruiting seniors, or cadets, but both. One poster to shed light on the importance of ground operations.
A picture that depicts both seniors and cadets dirty and tired yet bearing a face of pride and accomplishment knowing they completed the mission. The caption states "Last year Civil Air Patrol members saved XX number of lives, and XX amount of dollars. During (INSERT DISASTER NAME HERE) more operators Were needed. Will you answer that call next? "
It would be an honest poster, and I'm sure it would grasp at many who did not know there was such a thing that they could contribute their abilities to.
Well, one thing that always gets people is when I tell them that CAP had the only plane flying on 9/11 and the aerial photos of Ground Zero were taken by us. Untold volunteer hours spent in support of Homeland Security and Disaster Relief missions, both local and nationally.
Show pictures of cadets and seniors doing these things.
Yes, but that is again flying, we already have all of our posters and brochures for senior aimed at flying... What about ground operations? It seems to be getting the short end of the recruiting stick.
Cadets can perform ground duties as part of Disaster Relief.
Cadets can also perform search and rescue... And?
The problem is that it is marketed only to cadets. It's as if no one knows that seniors do it as well. If there are no seniors doing it, there will be no cadets doing it. If no one is doing it then no one is doing it.
It's being treated as a cadet activity, when it's a vital mission that must be done. It's not something just to occupy cadets.
Even with the majority of posters being aimed at flying, we still do a lousy job in recruitment in that area as well. I even know many pilots who are not really sure of what we do beyond that we fly around in red, white and blue Cessnas and occasionally look for downed airplanes.
We are still an enigma to so many people 70 years after our creation.
I believe that we need better recruitment efforts as a whole organization, not just for any particular segment of the organization that any one of us might favor. I see very little recruitment efforts going on at the national level or the local level.
So do we need better posters / recruitment aimed at ground teams? Absolutely! But the need is much greater than that.
Quote from: manfredvonrichthofen on August 30, 2012, 03:09:04 PM
Cadets can also perform search and rescue... And?
The problem is that it is marketed only to cadets. It's as if no one knows that seniors do it as well. If there are no seniors doing it, there will be no cadets doing it. If no one is doing it then no one is doing it.
It's being treated as a cadet activity, when it's a vital mission that must be done. It's not something just to occupy cadets.
He asked about things aimed at cadets. I gave him 2 ideas.
Quote from: Garibaldi on August 30, 2012, 04:11:26 PM
Quote from: manfredvonrichthofen on August 30, 2012, 03:09:04 PM
Cadets can also perform search and rescue... And?
The problem is that it is marketed only to cadets. It's as if no one knows that seniors do it as well. If there are no seniors doing it, there will be no cadets doing it. If no one is doing it then no one is doing it.
It's being treated as a cadet activity, when it's a vital mission that must be done. It's not something just to occupy cadets.
He asked about things aimed at cadets. I gave him 2 ideas.
who did? I just reread Tuesday whole thread and didn't find anything asking about aiming to cadets. Were talking about recruiting seniors to Es.
Quote from: manfredvonrichthofen on August 30, 2012, 12:37:14 PMWe need to understand and keynote it as an important mission of the Civil Air Patrol, otherwise we will see missions occur less and less until it is no longer even one of our missions.
Around here, it's the lack of missions that has lead to a reduced number of people willing to serve on a ground team.*
* Standard disclaimer about this being local to me, your milage may vary.
Quote from: Fubar on August 31, 2012, 05:27:48 AM
Quote from: manfredvonrichthofen on August 30, 2012, 12:37:14 PMWe need to understand and keynote it as an important mission of the Civil Air Patrol, otherwise we will see missions occur less and less until it is no longer even one of our missions.
Around here, it's the lack of missions that has lead to a reduced number of people willing to serve on a ground team.*
* Standard disclaimer about this being local to me, your milage may vary.
It could be the other way around, it could be that a lack of ground teams has led to a lack of missions.
While Yes, along with all of this wonderful technology, there has become a lack of going outside and camping and fun things that that require you to actually live, comes a lack of getting lost and or hurt, causing a lack of missions. There isn't much call for it here either, but I am going to stand ready, and Were it marketed well enough, you would have people standing by anywhere, ready to do the job. Now no, I don't know how to market it right, otherwise I would be marketing it. And it's obvious that national doesn't know how to market either, otherwise we wouldn't have this new logo that screams "HEY WERE A FLYING CLUB".
Quote from: manfredvonrichthofen on August 30, 2012, 03:09:04 PM
Cadets can also perform search and rescue... And?
The problem is that it is marketed only to cadets. It's as if no one knows that seniors do it as well. If there are no seniors doing it, there will be no cadets doing it. If no one is doing it then no one is doing it.
It's being treated as a cadet activity, when it's a vital mission that must be done. It's not something just to occupy cadets.
One of the selling points to local EMA's in our area that wound up asking for our assistance on a regular basis is the fact that we had about a 50/50 mix.....
The problem with recruiting adult members for Emergency Services, is that most would just want to do emergency services, BUT the way that the CAP professional development program is set up, as well as the number of administrative requirements at the squadron level, also need adults to fill those other non ES positions. IF you have 10 pilots that just want to fly, do you make them all Assistant Ops Officers ??? IF you have 5 adult personnel that just want to participate in Emergency Service Activities do you make all of them Assistant ES Officers ??? (who does logistics, finance, public affairs, safety, cadet programs, etc. ???)
Additionally, there's a cost both in time & money to buy the equipment necessary as defined by CAP regulations in order to participate in any ground team activities. Getting qualified for pilot duties in CAP is also likely to be expensive. Other aircrew members (observer, scanner, & aerial photographer) offers the most reasonable costs to qualify. Also many of the mission base support functions (e.g. radio communications) can be done at minimal cost (training time & uniform/equipment costs) for the adult member.
A look at "CAP Volunteer Now" 'In The News', indicates more utilization of aircraft (aircrews) in ES than ground type activities. In just about every news story, once the CAP aircraft spotted the wreckage or the person in distress it was another agency that actually performed the rescue and/or recovery ground operations.
The real issue is can an adult members' expectations about Civil Air Patrol Emergency Services, be met OR do we need to ensure first that they fully understand what our "typical" missions are and the historic number of these per year. Surely this is going to vary by wing & group (geographic) areas. IF you recruit too hard based upon "possibilities" of ES, versus the "reality" of ES, you just waste a lot of adults' time (including the staffs time to train them) and they loose interest and find something else to do out side of CAP (basically leaving the program).
Personally, I'm just reluctant to press the ES side on recruitment heavily, but more to get adult members that are willing to assist with the other administrative requirements to operate a squadron and also participate in ES.
RM
Quote from: RADIOMAN015 on September 01, 2012, 06:29:52 PMIF you have 10 pilots that just want to fly, do you make them all Assistant Ops Officers ??? IF you have 5 adult personnel that just want to participate in Emergency Service Activities do you make all of them Assistant ES Officers ??? (who does logistics, finance, public affairs, safety, cadet programs, etc. ???)
No, you let them be pilots and operators. I'm a vocal advocate of the "total member", and members invested in PD are better members, but that
doesn't mean you turn away otherwise active pilots, etc., because that's all they want to do. Yo simply recruit them along with everyone else.
In some cases, their wanting to fly more will force the issue and some will step up, some won't, but at least you'll have them.
Quote from: RADIOMAN015 on September 01, 2012, 06:29:52 PM
Additionally, there's a cost both in time & money to buy the equipment necessary as defined by CAP regulations in order to participate in any ground team activities.
Relevance? Nothing is free, people make choices with their time and money. If CAP is compelling from an ROI perspective they will be active, if not, they won't. FYI - Ground team gear is not "expensive", and if you're already a pilot, you literally cannot fly less expensively then CAP, in fact, we put together a spreadsheet a few years ago that indicated that a low-time pilot flying the minimum amount of hours to stay typically current would save something $1500 a year if he only flew CAP planes, more if he shares the cost with another pilot or other aircrew. See "win-win" in the dictionary.
Or is this just another veiled the "...sky if falling and no one has a job in my wing post..."?
Quote from: RADIOMAN015 on September 01, 2012, 06:29:52 PM
The real issue is can an adult members' expectations about Civil Air Patrol Emergency Services, be met OR do we need to ensure first that they fully understand what our "typical" missions are and the historic number of these per year. Surely this is going to vary by wing & group (geographic) areas. IF you recruit too hard based upon "possibilities" of ES, versus the "reality" of ES, you just waste a lot of adults' time (including the staffs time to train them) and they loose interest and find something else to do out side of CAP (basically leaving the program).
You don't recruit based on the "possibilities" of ES, you recruit on the value of membership. Want more missions? Recruiting and train a force that can be marketed to local agencies. If your wing isn't involved in ES at a level you "like" it's purely a local failing. Citing "the sheriff won't let us", or
"they don't like us" is just an excuse. Every city is short of cash, they all need help, you just have to find the place you can be an asset.
Quote from: Eclipse on September 01, 2012, 06:51:12 PM
Quote from: RADIOMAN015 on September 01, 2012, 06:29:52 PMIF you have 10 pilots that just want to fly, do you make them all Assistant Ops Officers ??? IF you have 5 adult personnel that just want to participate in Emergency Service Activities do you make all of them Assistant ES Officers ??? (who does logistics, finance, public affairs, safety, cadet programs, etc. ???)
No, you let them be pilots and operators. I'm a vocal advocate of the "total member", and members invested in PD are better members, but that
doesn't mean you turn away otherwise active pilots, etc., because that's all they want to do. Yo simply recruit them along with everyone else.
In some cases, their wanting to fly more will force the issue and some will step up, some won't, but at least you'll have them.
COMMENT: Than change the professional development program to allow for flight crew members/pilots progression and not be an assistant whatever officer and really NOT performing any of those administrative duties.
Quote from: RADIOMAN015 on September 01, 2012, 06:29:52 PM
Additionally, there's a cost both in time & money to buy the equipment necessary as defined by CAP regulations in order to participate in any ground team activities.
Relevance? Nothing is free, people make choices with their time and money. If CAP is compelling from an ROI perspective they will be active, if not, they won't. FYI - Ground team gear is not "expensive", and if you're already a pilot, you literally cannot fly less expensively then CAP, in fact, we put together a spreadsheet a few years ago that indicated that a low-time pilot flying the minimum amount of hours to stay typically current would save something $1500 a year if he only flew CAP planes, more if he shares the cost with another pilot or other aircrew. See "win-win" in the dictionary.
COMMENT: ANY "mature" adult is going to want to know the cost, not only monetary but also in time that is going to be required and also for ES job/team at hand how often they could be expected to be called. (Wings have historic information on this and it can be readily provided).
Or is this just another veiled the "...sky if falling and no one has a job in my wing post..."?
COMMENT: I salute our wing leadership & ES wing staff personnel for their efforts to get different types of missions to utilized both air & ground ES forces. It just can be difficult due to many external factors that CAP has no control over
Quote from: RADIOMAN015 on September 01, 2012, 06:29:52 PM
The real issue is can an adult members' expectations about Civil Air Patrol Emergency Services, be met OR do we need to ensure first that they fully understand what our "typical" missions are and the historic number of these per year. Surely this is going to vary by wing & group (geographic) areas. IF you recruit too hard based upon "possibilities" of ES, versus the "reality" of ES, you just waste a lot of adults' time (including the staffs time to train them) and they loose interest and find something else to do out side of CAP (basically leaving the program).
You don't recruit based on the "possibilities" of ES, you recruit on the value of membership. Want more missions? Recruiting and train a force that can be marketed to local agencies. If your wing isn't involved in ES at a level you "like" it's purely a local failing. Citing "the sheriff won't let us", or
"they don't like us" is just an excuse. Every city is short of cash, they all need help, you just have to find the place you can be an asset.
COMMENT: Well the subject here is a recruiting poster for ES senior members. I think one should recruit for the missions we know we have not for the missions we don't have. Again setting too high an expectation for an adult leads to disappointment & non renewal. Surely we do "search" but the "rescue" part (at least with the postings on the "CAP Volunteer Now" 'In The News' portion supports the aerial search aspect, with ground rescue/recovery being completed by other public safety agencies. Also lots of aerial photo recon missions, so those with photography skills might have an interest.
So are we talking about Citizen's Emergency Response Team (CERT) training & certification ??? (that's something that has shown up on the 101 card ES qualification) ??? Surely, it might be something for CAP to look at especially in rural counties & small towns. Of course the devil is in the implementation details.
Again, in my opinion, keep the BS level down on recruiting adults for ES, be factual as to training requirements & mission type history. IF the adult decides NOT to join at that time, it's better overall for the organization then to spend lots of effort training them and they don't renew because their "expectation" about ES just wasn't met.
RM
That's Why you don't BS them. You explain it... If there is a erson wanting to join just flexible S's, when recruit them while explaining to them the reality of it, if they understand and still want to join, then grab them I'll as fast as you can. They will be a major asset to your Es program, because they want Es, not the rest of it.
And rm, Es is my big thing, but I fill other roles, I recruit heavily as an R&R officer, and I work as the squadron leadership officer, in Cadet Programs. It's a weak stance you hold there.