Interestingly, during a recent practice mission we had a team (all in BDU's) performing a mission tasking, when a civilian approached a team member and asked what they were doing. Apparently thought (and specifically stated to) the team was the US Army Corps of Engineers checking out that mission's fixed objective.
Now I know all the members on that team had the appropriate correct BDU uniform (with CAP blue/white, etc) and the specific member the civilian approached also has the CAP Emergency Services patch http://www.vanguardmil.com/emergency-services-patch-round-p-7110.html (http://www.vanguardmil.com/emergency-services-patch-round-p-7110.html) displayed. Perhaps it is possible that the orange safety vest might have covered the CAP tape and the ES patch ??? :-\
I think what happens with many civilians is that they see the uniform BUT don't really pay attention to any distinctive markings on the uniform. Maybe all safety vests need to have Civil Air Patrol distinctively displayed on both the front and back, perhaps just the Emergency Services Patch as above would be the easiest to put on the vests ???. Perhaps all headgear needs to have Civil Air Patrol (with no rank) also on it as adding to "distinctiveness" ??? :-\
I wonder if they all were wearing Blue BDU's what the civilian would have assumed as far as organizational affiliation ???
Have we done all we can to ensure our "distinctiveness" as CIVIL AIR PATROL, the official civilian Auxiliary of the United States Air Force, especially on field uniform wear ??? :-\ How will our future branding strategy affect uniforms, if at all ??? :-\
RM
Just because we have CAP written all over our uniforms, doesn't mean that people won't let their assumptions override their literacy.
You can't fix stupid....so don't bother.
a. There is no need to bend over backward to avoid confusion.....someone thinks we are "real military" we correct them and press on.
b. I guess it is a good thing that civilans saw our people in uniform working professionally....and they just assumed that we were real military. That's a good thing.
c. People are going to mistake us for someone else no matter what we wear....the US ARMY has not worn BDU for 5-6 years now.....if we all wore BBDU's they would think we were the cops, So we lose for winning.
An answer looking for a problem. Not a big deal if we are confused. Sounds like CAP gets a good job for their work.
Quote from: RADIOMAN015 on May 26, 2012, 07:07:24 PM
Interestingly, during a recent practice mission we had a team (all in BDU's) performing a mission tasking, when a civilian approached a team member and asked what they were doing. Apparently thought (and specifically stated to) the team was the US Army Corps of Engineers checking out that mission's fixed objective.
Now I know all the members on that team had the appropriate correct BDU uniform (with CAP blue/white, etc) and the specific member the civilian approached also has the CAP Emergency Services patch http://www.vanguardmil.com/emergency-services-patch-round-p-7110.html (http://www.vanguardmil.com/emergency-services-patch-round-p-7110.html) displayed. Perhaps it is possible that the orange safety vest might have covered the CAP tape and the ES patch ??? :-\
I think what happens with many civilians is that they see the uniform BUT don't really pay attention to any distinctive markings on the uniform. Maybe all safety vests need to have Civil Air Patrol distinctively displayed on both the front and back, perhaps just the Emergency Services Patch as above would be the easiest to put on the vests ???. Perhaps all headgear needs to have Civil Air Patrol (with no rank) also on it as adding to "distinctiveness" ??? :-\
I wonder if they all were wearing Blue BDU's what the civilian would have assumed as far as organizational affiliation ???
Have we done all we can to ensure our "distinctiveness" as CIVIL AIR PATROL, the official civilian Auxiliary of the United States Air Force, especially on field uniform wear ??? :-\ How will our future branding strategy affect uniforms, if at all ??? :-\
RM
Well, you had to exhume the dead horse and saddle it up for another ride didn't you.
Who cares(other than you apparently) that we might ocassionally be confused with members of the military? Really, who does? If somebody mistakes you for a member of the military while passing by, so what? They were mistaken and you don't know about it. If they approach you about it, you say, we're with the "Civil Air Patrol". End of story. Why do we need to go to absurd lengths in uniforms or regulations or "branding" to resolve something that can be done with a five(5), that's 1,2,3,4,5 minute conversation and some common sense.
The bigger question is why I am spending this amount of time feeding a troll. Answer: Just in that kind of mood I guess.
Quote from: ol'fido on May 26, 2012, 08:12:50 PM
The bigger question is why I am spending this amount of time feeding a troll. Answer: Just in that kind of mood I guess.
Hey, you know, occasionally its fun to watch.
So now its not enough that the membership is a bunch of big fat fakers, but now its CAP's fault because people can't read.
The appropriate CAP uniform is plenty distinctive. When Im working I fly a Helicopter that says ------ county sheriff in big vold letters and a flight suit with a full color badge patch with the department name and green and gold full color shoulder patches that say ------- county sheriff. I cant count the number of times people have asked me " what department are you with?". And these are other pilots at airports I land at. Because we wear green flight suits, Ive also been asked how long Ive been in the Army Guard. Yes....by other pilots as Im standing there with my gun belt.....and a ball cap that says "Sheriffs Air Support" in big gold letters. It actually happens a lot.
You can only do so much.
(http://dansemacabre.files.wordpress.com/2009/03/flogging-dead-horse.jpg?w=490)
I'm new around here on the forums, but I have a long CAP history as well as Air Force Active Duty. RM - I have come to the conclusion that you are very very "CAP is NOT a military ANYTHING" view and your heart set on that view. Let me lay down a few things to your "separative" ideals.
1) CAP is in fact filled with civilian volunteers, TRUE. We are NOT members of the United States Air Force and we are not enlisted or commissioned in the United States Armed Forces in any way. Once again - TRUE.
2) CAP -IS- the official Auxiliary of the United States Air Force, they are our brothers and sisters in blue, as we are their brothers and sisters, we are a single family, and that is how THEY see it as well. Why do I say this? Because I happen to be friends with a Command Chief Master Sergeant, the same one who happens to be the CCMSGT of the 1st Air Force and works with the AOC, oh - that would also make him one of the commanding Air Force personnel who works with CAP on the daily.
3) Being that we are part of the United States Air Force family, we are in fact under the MAJCOM of the 1st Air Force / Air Education Command. They place several PAID as well as Category E Reservists inside the command structure of CAP for this same reason. We report to the whom? Oh yes - The Secretary of the Air Force.
BUT! Before I go on to #4.. yes, your right in the fact that we the civilian auxiliary and I in NO way tell ANYONE I am a member of the Armed Forces. I tell them I am a civilian volunteer in the Civil Air Patrol, when they ask why I wear an Air Force uniform (yep.. they barely notice the differences - NOT our issue, its theirs) I inform them that we are the Official United States Air Force Auxiliary and that we assist our sisters and brothers in the Air Force when ever and how ever we can. So.. on that note..
4) We were given the right to wear the USAF Uniform with changes they approve. They select the level of distinction (remember the maroon fiasco anyone? Who did that - oh yes.. the USAF..) and they are the ones who would like us represent them in a positive light with honor and loyalty. We should do that also. BUT - since we are civilians, we are not required to observe their regulations, it is a choice we have. By choosing the wear the USAF Uniform, I choose to HONOR the United States Air Force. Thus I wear the AF Blues mostly, and BDU or Flight Suit when required of me. Everything I do while wearing that uniform reflects on them. They think so highly of their brothers and sisters, that they gave us the HONOR of wearing their uniforms and being a member of their family.
Please stop bashing the CAP members who choose to wear the USAF Uniform, they gave us that option as a way to honor us as we honor them. Take that honor and be PROUD. Correctly representing yourself while in uniform is the responsibility of the cadet and more importantly, senior member that wears it. As CAP creates more public awareness (hopefully) I believe the confusion will not be as noticeable as it is today. If you are upset that citizens don't know CAP from Active Duty, then educate them don't bring down CAP, boost it up.
I think I have made my view clear. And I can tell you, its pretty [darn] close to the view of USAF personnel that I know. Have a wonderful weekend and fly safe!
Quote from: Flying Pig on May 26, 2012, 09:33:48 PM
The appropriate CAP uniform is plenty distinctive. When Im working I fly a Helicopter that says ------ county sheriff in big vold letters and a flight suit with a full color badge patch with the department name and green and gold full color shoulder patches that say ------- county sheriff. I cant count the number of times people have asked me " what department are you with?". And these are other pilots at airports I land at. Because we wear green flight suits, Ive also been asked how long Ive been in the Army Guard. Yes....by other pilots as Im standing there with my gun belt.....and a ball cap that says "Sheriffs Air Support" in big gold letters. It actually happens a lot.
You can only do so much.
I do agree with you regarding you can only do so much, and your example above indicate this.
Personally, I still would like to see the orange vest have the simple Emergency Services patch on it (to keep cost reasonable, when compared with the Vanguard Civil Air Patrol vests with the large lettering on the bottom of the vest which is 3 times the cost of a regular vest (and it doesn't appear they have it in the orange color)). In the very distant past (mid 1960's) the CAP uniform did have a Baseball type hat that had the smaller Emergency Services patch on it that could be worn as a uniform item (at least what I saw the senior members wearing at that time).
Although I joke here on the list about it, I definitely wouldn't want to see anything done extreme with the field uniforms, and since the vests are pretty much a requirement in the field this seems like an easy thing to implement.
Surely the debate of having all of us in a single utility uniform for ES will probably continue :angel:
RM
Sir, empirically prove civilians are confused as to what we are. Your evidence is anecdotal. Please come back when you have empirical evidence.
Quote from: RADIOMAN015 on May 26, 2012, 10:09:23 PM
Quote from: Flying Pig on May 26, 2012, 09:33:48 PM
The appropriate CAP uniform is plenty distinctive. When Im working I fly a Helicopter that says ------ county sheriff in big vold letters and a flight suit with a full color badge patch with the department name and green and gold full color shoulder patches that say ------- county sheriff. I cant count the number of times people have asked me " what department are you with?". And these are other pilots at airports I land at. Because we wear green flight suits, Ive also been asked how long Ive been in the Army Guard. Yes....by other pilots as Im standing there with my gun belt.....and a ball cap that says "Sheriffs Air Support" in big gold letters. It actually happens a lot.
You can only do so much.
I do agree with you regarding you can only do so much, and your example above indicate this.
Personally, I still would like to see the orange vest have the simple Emergency Services patch on it (to keep cost reasonable, when compared with the Vanguard Civil Air Patrol vests with the large lettering on the bottom of the vest which is 3 times the cost of a regular vest (and it doesn't appear they have it in the orange color)).
Why not just require a vest that states: "WE ARE NOT THE MILITARY"? That should resolve any doubt and totally remove any possible "Wanna Bee" [sic] ambitions from the CIVILIAN members of our organization.
On a slightly more serious note, if our uniforms say "Civil Air Patrol," I don't think we have a responsibility to read it to the public. Something about leading a horse to water and such.
I find myself in agreement with the Lieutenant Colonel.
Even before we got the blue epaulettes and hard rank taken away, there were still significant identifiers on our uniforms that said who we were.
(http://www.vanguardmil.com/images/large/000000CAP0599M_LRG.jpg)
(http://www.vanguardmil.com/images/large/000000CAP0599K_LRG.jpg)
(http://www.vanguardmil.com/images/medium/0000000CAP0820_MED.jpg)
(http://www.vanguardmil.com/images/medium/000000CAP0820A_MED.jpg)
If someone gets anything other than CIVIL AIR PATROL out of that, it's not our problem.
This proves anything can be spinned to support someones agenda. It is a common mistaken, and if somebody doesn't know what we are, they see the camo uniform and think military. Being the auxillary of the USAF, this should be expected, since we wear the USAF uniform and are held, somewhat, to USAF standards.
I think I got mistaken for a military guy once.
Yet, I woke up today, and the world appears to still be spinning.
How crazy is that?
Quote from: Nathan on May 27, 2012, 06:40:41 PM
I think I got mistaken for a military guy once.
Yet, I woke up today, and the world appears to still be spinning.
How crazy is that?
You know what's even crazier? I walked into Rite-Aid in BDUs and a guy actually recognized us as CAP!
Quote from: RADIOMAN015 on May 26, 2012, 07:07:24 PMI think what happens with many civilians is that they see the uniform BUT don't really pay attentionto any distinctive markings on the uniform.
What someone mistakes us for, because they can't be bothered, doesn't change our missions or operations an iota.
Whether they think we are military or not is irrelevant.
Anything else?
That is quite possibly the best use of quoting I have ever seen Eclipse. :clap:
Quote from: FlyTiger77 on May 27, 2012, 11:08:10 AM
Quote from: RADIOMAN015 on May 26, 2012, 10:09:23 PM
Quote from: Flying Pig on May 26, 2012, 09:33:48 PM
The appropriate CAP uniform is plenty distinctive. When Im working I fly a Helicopter that says ------ county sheriff in big vold letters and a flight suit with a full color badge patch with the department name and green and gold full color shoulder patches that say ------- county sheriff. I cant count the number of times people have asked me " what department are you with?". And these are other pilots at airports I land at. Because we wear green flight suits, Ive also been asked how long Ive been in the Army Guard. Yes....by other pilots as Im standing there with my gun belt.....and a ball cap that says "Sheriffs Air Support" in big gold letters. It actually happens a lot.
You can only do so much.
I do agree with you regarding you can only do so much, and your example above indicate this.
Personally, I still would like to see the orange vest have the simple Emergency Services patch on it (to keep cost reasonable, when compared with the Vanguard Civil Air Patrol vests with the large lettering on the bottom of the vest which is 3 times the cost of a regular vest (and it doesn't appear they have it in the orange color)).
Why not just require a vest that states: "WE ARE NOT THE MILITARY"? That should resolve any doubt and totally remove any possible "Wanna Bee" [sic] ambitions from the CIVILIAN members of our organization.
On a slightly more serious note, if our uniforms say "Civil Air Patrol," I don't think we have a responsibility to read it to the public. Something about leading a horse to water and such.
Please note AGAIN
If one is wearing the safety vest it does cover up much one's front shirt area & of course back, so Civil Air Patrol tape normally can't be seen on the uniform. The ES patch is relatively small and conservative and puts a visible CAP as an organization on that vest. Simple, easy, inexpensive -- what more could one ask for ??? Than if they still don't get it, it's on them not on us :angel: (but of course there's some that just relish in the chance of being thought they are "real" military anyways :o :o ;) )
RM
Everyone could wear field uniforms distinctive from anything any military branch, police force, or other organization has ever worn along with giant, reflective "CAP" lettering across the back and chest and people would still mistake us for something else. It's not a distinctiveness issue. A lot of the general population just has no interest in or knowledge of government agencies, military services, and various organizations' uniforms out there. And sometimes people just don't bother to read.
I've been wearing Marine Corps uniforms, as distinctive as they are, and still been called "soldier", "Army guy" and even asked by a guy "What branch of the military are you?" and by some lady "Wait, are you in the real military?" And the Marines do a lot more advertising and branding than CAP does. Heck, most of our uniforms haven't even changed since WWII.
So in this instance it's not at all a distinctiveness issue, it's not a failure to do proper public awareness or branding. Being mistaken for something else is going to occassionally happen no matter what we do or what we wear.
Quote from: RADIOMAN015 on May 27, 2012, 08:32:30 PM
(but of course there's some that just relish in the chance of being thought they are "real" military anyways :o :o ;) )
RM
Yup. That's me. Oh, wait....nevermind, you wouldn't believe me if I told you.
I wannabe be FlyTiger77!
Quote from: MSG Mac on May 26, 2012, 07:57:07 PM
Just because we have CAP written all over our uniforms, doesn't mean that people won't let their assumptions override their literacy.
Quote from: lordmonar on May 26, 2012, 08:04:54 PM
You can't fix stupid....so don't bother.
Quote from: FlyTiger77 on May 27, 2012, 11:08:10 AM
Why not just require a vest that states: "WE ARE NOT THE MILITARY"
What I suspect is that, as difficult as it is to believe, most other civilians don't know that Civil Air Patrol exists or what we do. What they do know is that there is an Army Corp of Engineers who wears uniforms and does ... something.
I'm pretty sure I wouldn't assign illiteracy to someone simply because they don't recognize CAP when they see us. Nor would I think they're stupid or that sarcasm helps.
When approached, courtesy and politness goes a long way toward making the first contact with someone positive, rather than somethign else.
It's definitely that a lot, if not most, people haven't a clue about uniforms.
I was out with a group of 6 young cadets, ages 12-14, doing some UDF training and we were mistaken for AD and thanked for our service.
I was at a non-Scouting event at a state park in my Scouter uniform, which is ALWAYS worn correctly, where lots of Boy Scouts were helping out and was asked by at least 3 people if I was a park Ranger.
People just don't know and don't bother to learn.
Quote from: Pylon on May 27, 2012, 10:02:40 PM
Everyone could wear field uniforms distinctive from anything any military branch, police force, or other organization has ever worn along with giant, reflective "CAP" lettering across the back and chest and people would still mistake us for something else. It's not a distinctiveness issue. A lot of the general population just has no interest in or knowledge of government agencies, military services, and various organizations' uniforms out there. And sometimes people just don't bother to read.
I've been wearing Marine Corps uniforms, as distinctive as they are, and still been called "soldier", "Army guy" and even asked by a guy "What branch of the military are you?" and by some lady "Wait, are you in the real military?" And the Marines do a lot more advertising and branding than CAP does. Heck, most of our uniforms haven't even changed since WWII.
So in this instance it's not at all a distinctiveness issue, it's not a failure to do proper public awareness or branding. Being mistaken for something else is going to occassionally happen no matter what we do or what we wear.
Way back in the dark ages when the Navy wore the "Johnny Cash" uniform, I was stationed in Italy. We were frequently mistaken for Carabineri (Italian Federal Police) when we wore our uniforms out in town, even with our squid lids (they wear a uniform that is eerily similar to a German gestapo uniform) ... People see what they want to see, or simply don't care enough to notice the differences.
Simple solution: ban the troll.
Quote from: fyrfitrmedic on May 27, 2012, 11:20:00 PM
Simple solution: ban the troll.
Not fair! I don't agree with some of his opinions but I don't mind him sharing them. He does cause discussion and some good points result.
Quote from: 754837 on May 27, 2012, 11:26:55 PM
Quote from: fyrfitrmedic on May 27, 2012, 11:20:00 PM
Simple solution: ban the troll.
Not fair! I don't agree with some of his opinions but I don't mind him sharing them. He does cause discussion and some good points result.
You seem to be his only friend, so how about we ban you too?
Quote from: PHall on May 28, 2012, 12:21:47 AM
Quote from: 754837 on May 27, 2012, 11:26:55 PM
Quote from: fyrfitrmedic on May 27, 2012, 11:20:00 PM
Simple solution: ban the troll.
Not fair! I don't agree with some of his opinions but I don't mind him sharing them. He does cause discussion and some good points result.
You seem to be his only friend, so how about we ban you too?
Sure - ban everyone that has an opinion contrary to yours.
You might read the Bill of Rights.
Quote from: 754837 on May 28, 2012, 12:47:04 AM
Quote from: PHall on May 28, 2012, 12:21:47 AM
Quote from: 754837 on May 27, 2012, 11:26:55 PM
Quote from: fyrfitrmedic on May 27, 2012, 11:20:00 PM
Simple solution: ban the troll.
Not fair! I don't agree with some of his opinions but I don't mind him sharing them. He does cause discussion and some good points result.
You seem to be his only friend, so how about we ban you too?
Sure - ban everyone that has an opinion contrary to yours.
You might read the Bill of Rights.
Good thing that CT is not the government...... ;D You might remember that as well.
Quote from: 754837 on May 28, 2012, 12:47:04 AM
Quote from: PHall on May 28, 2012, 12:21:47 AM
Quote from: 754837 on May 27, 2012, 11:26:55 PM
Quote from: fyrfitrmedic on May 27, 2012, 11:20:00 PM
Simple solution: ban the troll.
Not fair! I don't agree with some of his opinions but I don't mind him sharing them. He does cause discussion and some good points result.
You seem to be his only friend, so how about we ban you too?
Sure - ban everyone that has an opinion contrary to yours.
You might read the Bill of Rights.
I guess you don't watch a lot of news or read the papers. There is censorship there on a major level a lot more than here on CT, and the bill of rights is subject to interpretation by the courts.
Quote from: RADIOMAN015 on May 26, 2012, 07:07:24 PM
Interestingly, during a recent practice mission we had a team (all in BDU's) performing a mission tasking, when a civilian approached a team member and asked what they were doing. Apparently thought (and specifically stated to) the team was the US Army Corps of Engineers checking out that mission's fixed objective.
Now I know all the members on that team had the appropriate correct BDU uniform (with CAP blue/white, etc) and the specific member the civilian approached also has the CAP Emergency Services patch http://www.vanguardmil.com/emergency-services-patch-round-p-7110.html (http://www.vanguardmil.com/emergency-services-patch-round-p-7110.html) displayed. Perhaps it is possible that the orange safety vest might have covered the CAP tape and the ES patch ??? :-\
I think what happens with many civilians is that they see the uniform BUT don't really pay attention to any distinctive markings on the uniform. Maybe all safety vests need to have Civil Air Patrol distinctively displayed on both the front and back, perhaps just the Emergency Services Patch as above would be the easiest to put on the vests ???. Perhaps all headgear needs to have Civil Air Patrol (with no rank) also on it as adding to "distinctiveness" ??? :-\
I wonder if they all were wearing Blue BDU's what the civilian would have assumed as far as organizational affiliation ???
Have we done all we can to ensure our "distinctiveness" as CIVIL AIR PATROL, the official civilian Auxiliary of the United States Air Force, especially on field uniform wear ??? :-\ How will our future branding strategy affect uniforms, if at all ??? :-\
RM
Why do you often ask questions, then ignore responses that answer your question in a way that you don't agree with?
You know, I wear a blue BDU style uniform at two of my paramedic jobs. I don't want CAP to wear something that I wear! I'm a paramedic! How is CAP going to ensure that they're not mistaken for a paramedic? Actually, I don't want any of the special police units to wear blue BDU's either. They might not be paramedics. In fact, maybe they shouldn't even wear a uniform the same cut as mine, even if it's a different color.
You....I just had a thought......CAP is an older organisation then the USAF, most Paramedic orgs, and most police departments.
ERGO.........all you guys get out of OUR uniforms....we were here first! And we want you to stop confusing the public by wearing clothing too close to ours!
>:D
Quote from: lordmonar on May 28, 2012, 01:10:55 AM
You....I just had a thought......CAP is an older organisation then the USAF, most Paramedic orgs, and most police departments.
ERGO.........all you guys get out of OUR uniforms....we were here first! And we want you to stop confusing the public by wearing clothing too close to ours!
>:D
Ok you owe me a new laptop after my tea just went over it lol...
Quote from: fyrfitrmedic on May 27, 2012, 11:20:00 PM
Simple solution: ban the troll.
He is entitled to his opinion and it would be immoral to ban him or anyone, based over their opinion. I sat infront of him at a wing wing conference at a recruiting and retention seminar, and while I disagree with his opinions and think what he says makes him look stupider than he really is, he is 100% entitled to speak his mind. I have heard many great things about him, and he does contribute to CAP in a positive manner. What he needs to do is to try not to be provocative in his post and refraim from calling people wannabe's.
Quote from: abdsp51 on May 28, 2012, 01:13:14 AM
Quote from: lordmonar on May 28, 2012, 01:10:55 AM
You....I just had a thought......CAP is an older organisation then the USAF, most Paramedic orgs, and most police departments.
ERGO.........all you guys get out of OUR uniforms....we were here first! And we want you to stop confusing the public by wearing clothing too close to ours!
>:D
Ok you owe me a new laptop after my tea just went over it lol...
He owes me a new one too due to the fact my face just broke the keyboard doubling over in laughter.
Again...be more proud of what WE are then ASHAMED of who WE are not.
We wear CAP uniforms...plain and simple.
What John Q. Public mistakes us for is none of our affair, our is only to represent well the Civil Air Patrol and our missions well while wearing our uniforms. Worrying about things we cannot control or fixing our actions and policy on "what some old lady at Dairy Queen" thought about a group of cadets ordering burgers is counter productive and puts the cart before the horse.
Speaking one's mind and flat out calling people wanna bees and posing conspiracy theories are something different. I am often confused for being in the Army when I am in the AF while I am thanked for service etc. I smile at them tell them thank you for recognizing the service and press on.
Confusion happens especially with organizations who wear uniforms, it does no good to modify anything and everything because the public is unaware.
Quote from: PHall on May 28, 2012, 12:21:47 AM
You seem to be his only friend, so how about we ban you too?
I may not agree with what you say, but I will defend, to the death, your right to say it. I'll so the same for his right to say it.
I'm a little early - Happy Memorial Day everyone. To ALL the veterans here, Thank You for your service.
Quote from: bflynn on May 28, 2012, 02:04:44 AM
Quote from: PHall on May 28, 2012, 12:21:47 AM
You seem to be his only friend, so how about we ban you too?
I may not agree with what you say, but I will defend, to the death, your right to say it. I'll so the same for his right to say it.
The First Amendment does not apply, so defending it to the death would seem foolhardy.
Quote from: bflynn on May 28, 2012, 02:04:44 AM
I may not agree with what you say, but I will defend, to the death, your right to say it.
Easy to say, but a pretty high standard to attain.
[sarcasm]Wait a moment. WE ARE NOT THE MILITARY!!! WE ARE JUST CIVILIANS!!! No wonder why we can't wear uniforms correctly. We can't recognise our own uniforms. How could we have all been so blind??? IT ALL MAKES SENSE NOW!!!! We all owe RM a debt of gratitude for his infinite wisdom to all of us wanna bees. [/sarcasm]
::) ::)
From a has been.
Both the US Public Health Service and NOAA Corps wear uniforms that are similar to the US Navy... I think CAP should just stick to Something and be proud of its traditions based on the Army Air Corps of WWII and the Air Force.... It seems that there is a lot of uproar over uniforms and what exactly is the mission of CAP....
Quote from: lordmonar on May 28, 2012, 01:10:55 AM
You....I just had a thought......CAP is an older organisation then the USAF, most Paramedic orgs, and most police departments.
ERGO.........all you guys get out of OUR uniforms....we were here first! And we want you to stop confusing the public by wearing clothing too close to ours!
>:D
I sometimes tell people that CAP is the Auxiliary of the USAF, but that we've been around longer than the USAF.
That usually gets a perplexed look or two, but then I do explain my statement.
Quote from: resqccemt on May 28, 2012, 12:44:25 PM
Both the US Public Health Service and NOAA Corps wear uniforms that are similar to the US Navy... I think CAP should just stick to Something and be proud of its traditions based on the Army Air Corps of WWII and the Air Force.... It seems that there is a lot of uproar over uniforms and what exactly is the mission of CAP....
And they both look a heck of a lot closer to the Navy than we do to the Air Force, while their connection to the Navy is slim to none.
Not to mention that the few states with SDF Air units wear the AF uniform with much, much fewer "marks of distinction" than we do (usually only a different nameplate and/or collar brass) and USAF has no problem with it (and they
could, after all, it is
their uniform).
In fact, the connection to the military in general is slim for NOAA Corps, but more so for the USPHS, as they provide medical care for the USCG. They are
uniformed services, but not armed forces.
(http://www.cdc.gov/od/occp/officership/uniforms/images/dress_blues.jpg)
USPHS uniforms
However, NOAA is in the process of redoing their uniforms to be more in line with the new Army Blue Service Dress.
http://www.corpscpc.noaa.gov/perservices/new_uniform_change.html (http://www.corpscpc.noaa.gov/perservices/new_uniform_change.html)
I think we've been in this tizzy over uniforms ever since the berry boards were imposed, which was punishing the many for the actions of a few.
Some say that we should be content with the status quo, others hearken back to when we
did look more like the AF, and others want us out of the AF uniforms entirely.
And, unfortunately, those who follow the line of thinking of "pick something and stick with it" usually tend to be in group 3.
Quote from: resqccemt on May 28, 2012, 12:44:25 PM
Both the US Public Health Service and NOAA Corps wear uniforms that are similar to the US Navy... I think CAP should just stick to Something and be proud of its traditions based on the Army Air Corps of WWII and the Air Force.... It seems that there is a lot of uproar over uniforms and what exactly is the mission of CAP....
As long as civilians dont start confusing CAP with NOAA or the PHS.....that would be the final straw that broke the camels back! >:D
Well more research confirms that the Orange safety vests do cover both the CAP Tape and the name tape on both BDU's & Blue BDU's.
Additionally, I'm not sure that with the new ANSI 2 type vests that the CAP Emergency Services patch can fit on the high chest area without going across the reflective material.
Likely the best solution is to remove all rank from the BDU/Blue BDU headgear and place the CAP Emergency Services patch at that location.
Currently wearing the safety vest over either field uniform obstructs the identification that we are Civil Air Patrol members. Since AFI 10-2701 para 1.3.4, requires "distinctiveness" that is obstructed by a safety vest, the hat patch seems to be IMHO the best way to comply with the AF requirement.
RM
I think our huge wing patches do just fine for that. Not to mention when most civilian population (as you put it) would see us out and about town, we are rather close to a CAP vehicle, so the large CAP command patch should take care of that.
I don't see your issue with everything CAP does with uniforms. Is it because you were AD? If so, I still don't understand it, I was AD, and I think the uniforms are a necessary part of our organization. I know many other prior service feel the same way, so that shouldn't be it. So I am at a loss for what the problem could be. Please enlighten us, or just stop it.
The AFI has absolutely nothing to do with distinctiveness in the sense you're trying to use it.
Quote from: manfredvonrichthofen on May 28, 2012, 01:36:40 PM
I think our huge wing patches do just fine for that. Not to mention when most civilian population (as you put it) would see us out and about town, we are rather close to a CAP vehicle, so the large CAP command patch should take care of that.
I don't see your issue with everything CAP does with uniforms. Is it because you were AD? If so, I still don't understand it, I was AD, and I think the uniforms are a necessary part of our organization. I know many other prior service feel the same way, so that shouldn't be it. So I am at a loss for what the problem could be. Please enlighten us, or just stop it.
I have nothing against CAP members wearing military type field uniforms. On the other hand from a PAO marketing perceptive I would hope that we could have CIVIL AIR PATROL easily seen and displayed.
Right now with the safety vest worn it blocks anything that says we are CAP. I do agree with you there's a wing patch, but that is on the side of uniform. When you are looking at someone directly or they are approaching there's really no ID as to the organization affiliation. The vests that Vanguard sells with the CIVIL AIR PATROL (name & command logo) on the bottom of the vest, are really expensive. I don't want to see proposed fixes cost the membership a lot of money, thus the Emergency Services Patch on the headgear seems cost effective and is already authorized for wear on both BDU/Blue BDU's uniforms.
As far as the vehicles go, surely that is a very good identification BUT in my specific example given that started this thread, the ground team was well away from the vehicle.
Now as far as everyone getting into only one organizational field type uniform, I think the marketing people under the entire branding concept planning would like to see that. However, the realities of this organization, both historically and the current psyche of many members will likely prevent this :-\
RM
Quote from: abdsp51 on May 28, 2012, 01:13:14 AM
Quote from: lordmonar on May 28, 2012, 01:10:55 AM
You....I just had a thought......CAP is an older organisation then the USAF, most Paramedic orgs, and most police departments.
ERGO.........all you guys get out of OUR uniforms....we were here first! And we want you to stop confusing the public by wearing clothing too close to ours!
>:D
Ok you owe me a new laptop after my tea just went over it lol...
Was that "tea" from Long Island? I was actually asked not long ago if I was a Cop while wearing the blue flight suit. Not sure if it was the uniform or the box of donuts in front of me. >:D Seriously though, they thought I was a Cop. The downside could be if a truly bad guy thought that.
So now your entire concern is marketing?
Pick an opinion and go with it.
Quote from: Flying Pig on May 28, 2012, 12:52:50 PM
Quote from: resqccemt on May 28, 2012, 12:44:25 PM
Both the US Public Health Service and NOAA Corps wear uniforms that are similar to the US Navy... I think CAP should just stick to Something and be proud of its traditions based on the Army Air Corps of WWII and the Air Force.... It seems that there is a lot of uproar over uniforms and what exactly is the mission of CAP....
As long as civilians dont start confusing CAP with NOAA or the PHS.....that would be the final straw that broke the camels back! >:D
What do you mean by that?
Quote from: Eclipse on May 28, 2012, 02:36:50 PM
So now your entire concern is marketing?
Pick an opinion and go with it.
I know nothing is risk free. I was just pointing out a potential issue.
If someone asks I just explain what CAP is and the difference between CAP and the military. I've had to actually clarify to people who've seen and worked with me in my military uniform on one day and then seen me in a CAP uniform on another.
RM,
You have stated in many other threads you dislike of CAP wearing military style uniforms. You consistently refer to those of us who wear the USAF style uniforms as wannabes. It has got to be more than just a marketing/PAO issue. If it were just marketing/PAO issues, you wouldn't be slamming those of us who wear the uniforms so consistently, yu would be trying to find a way to make marketing and PAO work easier. What is your big issue really? Have you dealt with too many Patriot Act violators? What is the disdain?
Quote from: RADIOMAN015 on May 28, 2012, 01:27:33 PM
Well more research confirms that the Orange safety vests do cover both the CAP Tape and the name tape on both BDU's & Blue BDU's.
Additionally, I'm not sure that with the new ANSI 2 type vests that the CAP Emergency Services patch can fit on the high chest area without going across the reflective material.
Likely the best solution is to remove all rank from the BDU/Blue BDU headgear and place the CAP Emergency Services patch at that location.
Currently wearing the safety vest over either field uniform obstructs the identification that we are Civil Air Patrol members. Since AFI 10-2701 para 1.3.4, requires "distinctiveness" that is obstructed by a safety vest, the hat patch seems to be IMHO the best way to comply with the AF requirement.
RM
"Well more research confirms that the Orange safety vests do cover both the CAP Tape and the name tape on both BDU's & Blue BDU's."
Well, duhh.
Quote from: blackrain on May 28, 2012, 02:54:26 PM
Quote from: Eclipse on May 28, 2012, 02:36:50 PM
So now your entire concern is marketing?
Pick an opinion and go with it.
I know nothing is risk free. I was just pointing out a potential issue.
I was not responding to you, you're in the crossfire.
Quote from: manfredvonrichthofen on May 28, 2012, 01:36:40 PM
I don't see your issue with everything CAP does with uniforms. Is it because you were AD? If so, I still don't understand it, I was AD, and I think the uniforms are a necessary part of our organization. I know many other prior service feel the same way, so that shouldn't be it. So I am at a loss for what the problem could be. Please enlighten us, or just stop it.
I was ANG, and I don't have an issue with it...as is commonly known to the habitues of this board, I would like to see a return to the pre-berry boards days, rather than increasingly "grey/corporate." Whether that will happen or not is another matter.
I would agree that going back tothe pre berry era...embrace the USAFtradition of CAP.
Quote from: FlyTiger77 on May 28, 2012, 03:10:39 AM
Quote from: bflynn on May 28, 2012, 02:04:44 AM
I may not agree with what you say, but I will defend, to the death, your right to say it.
Easy to say, but a pretty high standard to attain.
Yes. It is a high standard.
Do you aspire to the high standard or some lesser one?
Quote from: RADIOMAN015 on May 28, 2012, 01:54:45 PMI have nothing against CAP members wearing military type field uniforms.
I agree that it would be good for CAP to not be confused with the military. We are a distinctive organization and we deserve to claim our accolades and our failures distinctively from other organizations.
Quote from: Flying Pig on May 26, 2012, 09:33:48 PM
The appropriate CAP uniform is plenty distinctive. When Im working I fly a Helicopter that says ------ county sheriff in big vold letters and a flight suit with a full color badge patch with the department name and green and gold full color shoulder patches that say ------- county sheriff. I cant count the number of times people have asked me " what department are you with?". And these are other pilots at airports I land at. Because we wear green flight suits, Ive also been asked how long Ive been in the Army Guard. Yes....by other pilots as Im standing there with my gun belt.....and a ball cap that says "Sheriffs Air Support" in big gold letters. It actually happens a lot.
You can only do so much.
+1 that is so true.
When I was a policeman the general population knew you were a generic policeman. Only criminals would notice the difference between LAPD and Culver City Police or Highway Patrolman and a Deputy Sheriff.
"Im out in the county, only the Sheriff can arrest me in the county"......
Um, well not true, but good news is that Im a Sheriff so it doesnt matter......
Oh....I thought you were the PD
I had a 5150 (mentally ill subject) who was dressed like Woody from "Toy Story" exclaimed to the officers, "I will not surrender to anybody except the sheriff!" Of course the subject is 6' 5" and a hard 300 pounds.
I told the guys, let me talk to him. On my uniform I had the Distinguish Master pistol badge that look like a small sheriff's badge. I told the 5150, that badge was my commission from the sheriff to bring him. He let me put the cuffs on him and take him to the mental hospital.
Corps of Engineers? Is this "civilian" even aware that the VAST majority of Corps employees are civilian? You're not too likely to see many servicemembers on a CONUS engineering project, let alone in the old BDUs.
OTOH, it wasn't unusual to see Department of Defense employees in ACUs with "deployed civilian" patches (yes, Vanguard carries them) in the box in the early days.
I don't understand why certain people are SO fixated on this subject... CAP members on ES missions are more likely to be taken as airsofters. :o
Quote from: jks19714 on May 31, 2012, 01:48:50 PM
Corps of Engineers? Is this "civilian" even aware that the VAST majority of Corps employees are civilian?
Probably not - it's the ARMY corps, so everyone must be in the military, right?
What most people know about the ACoE starts with building airfields in WWII and ends with inspecting levees in New Orleans.
Yes, I know...they are confusing SeeBees with ACoE...my point is they lump everyone together and don't make distrinctions beyond Army, Navy, Air Force or Marine.
Quote from: bflynn on May 31, 2012, 01:56:31 PM
What most people know about the ACoE starts with building airfields in WWII and ends with inspecting levees in New Orleans.
Around here everyone knows them for blowing Mississippi River levees and flooding out farmland.
Why after reading one of RM's posts do I feel the need to take a shower?!
Quote from: Smokey on May 31, 2012, 07:38:40 PM
Why after reading one of RM's posts do I feel the need to take a shower?!
I don't know - why do you feel the need to post that you do? An interesting psychology question I suppose...
I probably should follow this advice too, but if he posts something that bothers you, just ignore it.
I am over the issue of people confusing us with military. If they ask, tell them, if not, then what is the issue? Someone is there either training to help them, or helping them.
It is good to know that there are well trained people who are professional and look good out furthering their training to help.
I'm sorry Bflynn.....you are the almighty wise one. I apologize for not rising to your level of moral relativism. I will go give myself 30 lashing.
Chill out guys. We are on the same side. If you don't like someone ignore his or her posts. Simple as that.
Quote from: Extremepredjudice on May 31, 2012, 11:03:36 PM
Chill out guys. We are on the same side. If you don't like someone ignore his or her posts. Simple as that.
We've discussed this before - it's not that simple.
Since this is a public board and is fully indexed externally, these ideas and comments are exposed to the universe.
Unchallenged they come back as "fact". BTDT.
Sir, getting snippy with each other won't enhance our reputation. As Bflynn and Smokey were getting.
Sometimes you have to take a break, relax, maybe watch some TV? My post was directed at Bflynn and smokey.
Quote from: bflynn on May 31, 2012, 07:56:14 PM
Quote from: Smokey on May 31, 2012, 07:38:40 PM
Why after reading one of RM's posts do I feel the need to take a shower?!
I don't know - why do you feel the need to post that you do? An interesting psychology question I suppose...
I probably should follow this advice too, but if he posts something that bothers you, just ignore it.
She we just ignore things that hurt our organization?
We sure as hell didn't ignore Pearl Harbor or 9/11 as an organization.
Quote from: Littleguy on May 31, 2012, 11:57:50 PM
Quote from: bflynn on May 31, 2012, 07:56:14 PM
Quote from: Smokey on May 31, 2012, 07:38:40 PM
Why after reading one of RM's posts do I feel the need to take a shower?!
I don't know - why do you feel the need to post that you do? An interesting psychology question I suppose...
I probably should follow this advice too, but if he posts something that bothers you, just ignore it.
She we just ignore things that hurt our organization?
We sure as hell didn't ignore Pearl Harbor or 9/11 as an organization.
That is a big leap... Pearl harbor != trolls on a forum.
Quote from: Extremepredjudice on June 01, 2012, 12:04:38 AM
Quote from: Littleguy on May 31, 2012, 11:57:50 PM
Quote from: bflynn on May 31, 2012, 07:56:14 PM
Quote from: Smokey on May 31, 2012, 07:38:40 PM
Why after reading one of RM's posts do I feel the need to take a shower?!
I don't know - why do you feel the need to post that you do? An interesting psychology question I suppose...
I probably should follow this advice too, but if he posts something that bothers you, just ignore it.
She we just ignore things that hurt our organization?
We sure as hell didn't ignore Pearl Harbor or 9/11 as an organization.
That is a big leap... Pearl harbor != trolls on a forum.
If you are calling me a troll, than stop. Remember Coastal Patrol? We didn't sit down with our thumbs up our butts during Pearl Harbor or 9/11. We did something. Blyfnn's attitude towards the issue is that we should ignore problems that arise instead of fix them. RM's comments are surely a problem for us as an organization. Our attitudes here as Civil Air Patrol is much more different than to sit down when a challenge arises. Give me a break, I was trying not to say something along the lines of two highschooler kids in a fight.
Personally, I am sick of RM feeling he needs to repeat his agenda to get us out of uniform. He has his right, but it has crossed the line.
Quote from: Extremepredjudice on May 31, 2012, 11:45:19 PM
Sir, getting snippy with each other won't enhance our reputation. As Bflynn and Smokey were getting.
Sometimes you have to take a break, relax, maybe watch some TV? My post was directed at Bflynn and smokey.
And your post isn't snippy? lol
Let's talk about ideas, not people...?
Quote from: Littleguy on June 01, 2012, 12:25:06 AM
If you are calling me a troll, than stop...
EP and "troll" is on par with RM and "civilian".
If you have a different opinion, you obviously are a troll. Maybe that's another word that could be added to the profanity filter.
I only use troll when I see a troll.
We could change "troll" to "unicorn."
Quote from: bflynn on May 31, 2012, 01:56:31 PM
Quote from: jks19714 on May 31, 2012, 01:48:50 PM
Corps of Engineers? Is this "civilian" even aware that the VAST majority of Corps employees are civilian?
Probably not - it's the ARMY corps, so everyone must be in the military, right?
What most people know about the ACoE starts with building airfields in WWII and ends with inspecting levees in New Orleans.
Yes, I know...they are confusing SeeBees with ACoE...my point is they lump everyone together and don't make distrinctions beyond Army, Navy, Air Force or Marine.
Now youve crossed the line. As a Marine I was
NEVER confused with being in the Air Force! >:D
Quote from: Flying Pig on June 01, 2012, 04:37:56 PM
Now youve crossed the line. As a Marine I was NEVER confused with being in the Air Force! >:D
What about being confused with the Navy? :D ;)
Seriously...the opinions (and you know the old saw about opinions, everybody's got one and they all stink, some more than others) of CAPTalkers (and that includes me; I'm as full of Bull Durham as the next one sometimes) aren't worth getting an ulcer about. Take a break, take some Pepto, or whatever you need to do.
Quote from: RADIOMAN015 on May 28, 2012, 01:54:45 PM
Quote from: manfredvonrichthofen on May 28, 2012, 01:36:40 PM
I think our huge wing patches do just fine for that. Not to mention when most civilian population (as you put it) would see us out and about town, we are rather close to a CAP vehicle, so the large CAP command patch should take care of that.
I don't see your issue with everything CAP does with uniforms. Is it because you were AD? If so, I still don't understand it, I was AD, and I think the uniforms are a necessary part of our organization. I know many other prior service feel the same way, so that shouldn't be it. So I am at a loss for what the problem could be. Please enlighten us, or just stop it.
I have nothing against CAP members wearing military type field uniforms. On the other hand from a PAO marketing perceptive I would hope that we could have CIVIL AIR PATROL easily seen and displayed. Right now with the safety vest worn it blocks anything that says we are CAP. I do agree with you there's a wing patch, but that is on the side of uniform. When you are looking at someone directly or they are approaching there's really no ID as to the organization affiliation. The vests that Vanguard sells with the CIVIL AIR PATROL (name & command logo) on the bottom of the vest, are really expensive. I don't want to see proposed fixes cost the membership a lot of money, thus the Emergency Services Patch on the headgear seems cost effective and is already authorized for wear on both BDU/Blue BDU's uniforms.
As far as the vehicles go, surely that is a very good identification BUT in my specific example given that started this thread, the ground team was well away from the vehicle.
Now as far as everyone getting into only one organizational field type uniform, I think the marketing people under the entire branding concept planning would like to see that. However, the realities of this organization, both historically and the current psyche of many members will likely prevent this :-\
RM
How the h#@% were you ever appointed as a PAO?! Seriously.
Hey, don't SLAM him too hard. ;)
" Oooooh my" - Professor Hubert Farnsworth
<cues the clock>
Quote from: EMT-83 on June 02, 2012, 02:40:01 AM
Hey, don't SLAM him too hard. ;)
I guess he got tired of being "picked on" so he changed his handle. No surprise - intestinal fortitude has never been his thing anyway, just sporadic use of capslock and overuse of the word "wannabe,"
"Whack-a-troll" anyone? ;D
This reminds me of the disingenious lead-ins the local newscasts use when trying to create a news story. Usually something like; "such and such policy is in place, but "SOME" are against it", and they interview ONE yahoo. Hardly a controversy...
So RM has an anecdotal story of one civilian; and he is somehow transformed into an entire "Civilian Population".
That, is trolling.
RM must have a serious self esteem issue, to continue to slam CAP and those of us that wear the Uniform. If he dosn't want to wear a uniform or look like the AF then the Boy Scouts could use him, and his tallents. I don's want to bash the man so I will say I am disapointed with the lack of loyalty to the organization. I am a proud "wannabe" I want to be the best CAP Officer that I can be. A professional uniformed image will help reduce confusion with other agencies, be proud of our heritage not ashamed of it.
Quote from: FlyTiger77 on May 28, 2012, 03:10:39 AM
Quote from: bflynn on May 28, 2012, 02:04:44 AM
I may not agree with what you say, but I will defend, to the death, your right to say it.
Easy to say, but a pretty high standard to attain.
It's a repeat/paraphrase of Voltaire...Vincent Gardenia once repeated it on an episode of "All In the Family." It is a noble idea...and a great concept. However, tolerance does not mean you have to concede a point in a debate.
Words are about meaning, the sentences and paragraphs that flow forth should not so "cheaply" by extolled. We have to stand by our words. Thus, when a person comes into a forum such as this with a contrary point and is met with vitriol...sometimes it is best wise to "sing small" and be less abrasive to accomplish the necessary input of ideas.
Take Radioman and BFlynn, I am sure...most sure in any case in my mind...that their posts have closed more minds than opened. Even I have "winced" a few times at what is written by them here. That is when I go see what is being revised at Memory Alpha, the Start Trek Wiki, or at my TRAINSTATION game on facebook. Then I come back...refreshed and realize that what is posted at CAPTALK is seen by some in power but, like all conversations of the like after squadron meetings and pubs unknown...there is not "teeth to the tiger" and it matters as much as a cat coughing up a hairball on the west coast.
ALL YOU BASE ARE BELONG TO US!!!!
Interesting debate. My thoughts are that an organization such as CAP does need a uniform. But what uniform?
As to truly finding something totally distinctive for a uniform that still retains a utilitarian function and professional look, well that would be difficult. As others have mentioned, which ever direction we take we will be mistaken for another organization by someone who lacks the knowledge. It isn't that they are stupid, they just don't know.
Personally, if a military type field uniform is required, I favor a solid color fatigue / BDU for ground personnel over camouflage. What has always puzzled me is why camouflage? Who are we trying to hide from? ;)
For flight crews either the green or blue flight suit or the blue golf shirt works for me.
I am also unsure what purpose the AF blues have in an organization that rarely needs to wear them in the performance of our normal missions. Currently the only uniforms I own are the blue golf shirt, the white aviator shirt and a flight suit. I have only worn the white shirt once.
Another idea would be wearing the blue golf shirt with CAP logo along with some sort of cargo / BDU pants of a solid color such as khaki (my preference over gray) along with mission appropriate footgear. In the hot summer months, khaki shorts could be allowed. In the cooler months, a long sleeved version of the golf shirt could be authorized.
I do understand why some myself included would prefer changes to the uniform policy but let us refrain from name calling directed at those who like to wear the uniform. Also to those who prefer wearing the AF uniform with all of its trimmings, there is no need to demean or question the dedication or professionalism of those who would prefer to see it go away.
In the meantime or barring any change, we should all try our best to correctly and proudly wear the uniforms that are currently approved. If unable to do so then we need to look for another organization to dedicate our efforts to. There are plenty in need of volunteers.
QuoteI am also unsure what purpose the AF blues have in an organization that rarely needs to wear them in the performance of our normal missions
See: cadet programs
Personally, I don't think civilians mean anything by their remarks. Most CAP members I know here in west Michigan strive to wear their uniforms with pride, and by doing so, if they are confused as members of the armed forces, this should be a compliment! It means they are doing something right.
What do you think? :)
Quote from: AngelWings on May 27, 2012, 06:34:01 PM
This proves anything can be spinned to support someones agenda. It is a common mistaken, and if somebody doesn't know what we are, they see the camo uniform and think military. Being the auxillary of the USAF, this should be expected, since we wear the USAF uniform and are held, somewhat, to USAF standards.
Quote from: Lab Lover on August 13, 2012, 02:17:24 AM
Personally, I don't think civilians mean anything by their remarks. Most CAP members I know here in west Michigan strive to wear their uniforms with pride, and by doing so, if they are confused as members of the armed forces, this should be a compliment! It means they are doing something right.
What do you think? :)
Quote from: AngelWings on May 27, 2012, 06:34:01 PM
This proves anything can be spinned to support someones agenda. It is a common mistaken, and if somebody doesn't know what we are, they see the camo uniform and think military. Being the auxillary of the USAF, this should be expected, since we wear the USAF uniform and are held, somewhat, to USAF standards.
Yeah RM is a troll.
Why don't we just run a whole bunch of Nationwide CAP commercials so people actually hear and see what we are? And while yes it isn't free I'm sure some Networks would be willing to help out "The All Volunteer Auxiliary of The United States Airforce" And while we're at it how about more of a presence on Social Networking sites like facebook and more videos up on youtube?
Quote from: will.sheirer on August 17, 2012, 06:11:43 AM
Why don't we just run a whole bunch of Nationwide CAP commercials so people actually hear and see what we are? And while yes it isn't free I'm sure some Networks would be willing to help out "The All Volunteer Auxiliary of The United States Airforce" And while we're at it how about more of a presence on Social Networking sites like facebook and more videos up on youtube?
It makes too much sense. CAP, the miltary, and all affiliated organizations strive to not make sense. And if you look at the fiascos already discussed here, you'll see a lot of things are "Don't ask, the answer has to be no!". We fret too much over things and talk ourselves out of otherwise common sense things. Or atleast on this forum. *Que public quartering of me for saying that*
Quote from: Sgt. Annie on August 17, 2012, 06:11:43 AM
Why don't we just run a whole bunch of Nationwide CAP commercials so people actually hear and see what we are? And while yes it isn't free I'm sure some Networks would be willing to help out "The All Volunteer Auxiliary of The United States Airforce" And while we're at it how about more of a presence on Social Networking sites like facebook and more videos up on youtube?
They cost a butt load of cash. More than CAP could spend.
Though more videos on youtube would definitely be a good idea. Why don't you make one?
Quote from: Extremepredjudice on August 17, 2012, 06:36:55 AM
Quote from: Sgt. Annie on August 17, 2012, 06:11:43 AM
Why don't we just run a whole bunch of Nationwide CAP commercials so people actually hear and see what we are? And while yes it isn't free I'm sure some Networks would be willing to help out "The All Volunteer Auxiliary of The United States Airforce" And while we're at it how about more of a presence on Social Networking sites like facebook and more videos up on youtube?
They cost a butt load of cash. More than CAP could spend.
Though more videos on youtube would definitely be a good idea. Why don't you make one?
Outside of production costs, wouldn't the spots be free? I'm sure they'd be considered a public service announcement and there's grant money from the Ad Council available.
Quote from: rugger1869 on August 17, 2012, 07:57:56 AMOutside of production costs, wouldn't the spots be free? I'm sure they'd be considered a public service announcement and there's grant money from the Ad Council available.
We should probably advertise ourselves to more people than just insomniacs. That's pretty much the only time they run PSAs these days.
Quote from: Fubar on August 17, 2012, 08:32:47 AM
Quote from: rugger1869 on August 17, 2012, 07:57:56 AMOutside of production costs, wouldn't the spots be free? I'm sure they'd be considered a public service announcement and there's grant money from the Ad Council available.
We should probably advertise ourselves to more people than just insomniacs. That's pretty much the only time they run PSAs these days.
Wouldn't insomniacs be good to cover the night operational period in extended ops? >:D >:D
QuoteI think what happens with many civilians is that they see the uniform BUT don't really pay attention to any distinctive markings on the uniform.
True Story.
Some time ago, I was at JFK showing some cadets the inside of an Airbus, they were taking turns sitting in the cockpit seats. I was standing in just outside of the cockpit. I was wearing the white shirt/gray epaulets uniform. One of the pursers came up to me and handed me the catering order for the next flight. They thought that I was with the food service company!
Quote from: Shawn Warneke on September 02, 2012, 01:13:12 AM
QuoteI think what happens with many civilians is that they see the uniform BUT don't really pay attention to any distinctive markings on the uniform.
FTFY
This thread has more than run its professionally useful life, if it ever had one. Seriously folks, stop feeling the trolls (http://captalk.net/index.php?topic=15149.0).