CAP Talk

I just started down the path of professional military education and wondered if there was anyone else out there doing the same?

Just finished International Studies section, waiting for my test results.

Gotta wait until I pin on Captain this July to enroll.

I finished this course a bit ago. 

Big pain.

Not that it's a poor course.  But, not much of the overall program applies to general leadership theory or what we do in CAP.  I can see how it is an essential program for the Air Force.  It also gives a good insight into how their officer's are trained to think... and why.

Anyone that has a graduate level degree will not find the material overly challenging.  (Don't confuse that for not being challenging at all...)

It is more time consuming than anything due to the amount of reading required.  (And re-reading to catch the concepts.)

Personally, if I had to do it over again, I'd take the vacation time and do Region Staff College.  It would have been less time away from family (while I was hiding studying) and whatnot.  (Plus at RSC, you get to meet/network with other CAP folks...)

I am a Captain and wish to enroll in SOS. How do I enroll?

Thanks

If you check out the CAP Knowledgebase, answer # 506 has the information you want.  (It is lenghty, so best to check it out there...)

Also, don't hesitate to contact your Wing PD Officer.  He/she should be very familiar with the process.

Good luck!

Quote from: TankerT on January 16, 2007, 08:15:24 PM
If you check out the CAP Knowledgebase, answer # 506 has the information you want.  (It is lenghty, so best to check it out there...)

Also, don't hesitate to contact your Wing PD Officer.  He/she should be very familiar with the process.

Good luck!

Actually, your unit PDO should be able to help you get signed up.

The only hiccup that I ran into was that I had to download the AF form writer software so I could fill out the application online. Once that was done it was a breeze. National needs to confirm that you are a current member so after the AF accepts your application and says you are a student that is not 100% until National vouches for you. A few emails later and I was setup watching the briefing and on my way.

Come on in the water is fine...

What's the time commitment vs. AFIADL 0013 course?  How long do you have to study and how many exams are there?

Quote from: arajca on January 16, 2007, 08:25:31 PM
Actually, your unit PDO should be able to help you get signed up.

Assuming you had one you'd seen or spoken to even once since transfering to the Sq in Aug even though they report to you.

I just got signed up & hadn't touched a thing yet. Actually, I did the AF form & have yet to log in. Can you post what you needed to do w/ NHQ to square it up?

"...they torture you with briefings 'til your will to live is gone. They take 5 weeks of your short life and flush it down the john...

...between this and death by bunga-bunga, you'll surely chose death...

...S...O...S...is calling for you!"

;) :)

Quote from: A.Member on January 17, 2007, 03:17:48 PM
"...they torture you with briefings 'til your will to live is gone. They take 5 weeks of your short life and flush it down the john...

...between this and death by bunga-bunga, you'll surely chose death...

...S...O...S...is calling for you!"

;) :)

Yay for Snooze and Trip! (Dos Gringos, that is.)

Quote from: DNall on January 17, 2007, 11:58:46 AM

Quote from: arajca on January 16, 2007, 08:25:31 PM
Actually, your unit PDO should be able to help you get signed up.

Assuming you had one you'd seen or spoken to even once since transfering to the Sq in Aug even though they report to you.

I just got signed up & hadn't touched a thing yet. Actually, I did the AF form & have yet to log in. Can you post what you needed to do w/ NHQ to square it up?

National has nothing to do with it. It's all done through AFIADL.

After emailing the form, you'll need to register for the AU Distributed Learning System (https://au.csd.disa.mil/kc/login/login.asp?kc_ident=kc0012). Go to the Support Desk and submit an incident explaining that you're with CAP and need access for SOS. They'll set you up and send you the instructions to login.

For the SOS-DLP FAQ's, go here. (http://soc.maxwell.af.mil/sos/socadl/index.htm=)

Got my results back for International Studies - Passed. 77%. Not as good as I thought I'd do, but I'll take it.

Congrats! 77% is respectable. Two more test and you are done, right?

Yep. Starting Communication Studies tomorrow, should be easier considering I just finished English Comp and Speech at my community college. At least until I get to the AF specific documents. I'm getting psych'd for a bunch of quizes - just about every reading assignment has a quiz, like 15 in all, instead of two or three for the entire course.

Then comes Leadership Studies.

Quote from: afgeo4 on January 17, 2007, 05:54:35 AM
What's the time commitment vs. AFIADL 0013 course?  How long do you have to study and how many exams are there?

I'd say hands down, there is no comparison.  SOS contains more difficult material. 

AFIADL 13 has the one exam.  SOS has four.

I took the paper based SOS.  (I tried the CD based one.  It was soooo boring.  And, I couldn't sit down and study at lunch while at work... so... it didn't work out... so I changed.)

I spent several hours a week on the course.  (I don't recall how many.  Sometimes quite a few.  Mainly going over the materials and making flash cards.)  I took 14 months.  I probably could have done it in a year... but... I still needed time to actually do CAP stuff... as well as spend time with my family.  (But, when it comes to this type of material, which is lots of small essays and case studies, I tend to overstudy when a multiple guess test is involved.  I hate multiple guess.... I would have been done months faster if it was essay...)

Multiple guess.  :D

SOS 28 is now broken up into five areas so there are five test now. The entire course is online via web briefings and reading assignments.

My experience so far is that it is a comprehensive analysis of the basic building blocks of professional military officership and the USAF in particular.  Very interesting material and I can see how the material on the surface may seem irrelevant to CAP but I am sure that the material will be a benefit to me in my professional life and CAP volunteerism.

The added benefit of college credit is also appealing since it is free.

I recommend it to those with the self discipline and the ability to make the time for the studies.

Quote from: arajca on January 19, 2007, 01:41:15 AM

Quote from: DNall on January 17, 2007, 11:58:46 AM

Quote from: arajca on January 16, 2007, 08:25:31 PM
Actually, your unit PDO should be able to help you get signed up.

Assuming you had one you'd seen or spoken to even once since transfering to the Sq in Aug even though they report to you.

I just got signed up & hadn't touched a thing yet. Actually, I did the AF form & have yet to log in. Can you post what you needed to do w/ NHQ to square it up?

National has nothing to do with it. It's all done through AFIADL.

After emailing the form, you'll need to register for the AU Distributed Learning System (https://au.csd.disa.mil/kc/login/login.asp?kc_ident=kc0012). Go to the Support Desk and submit an incident explaining that you're with CAP and need access for SOS. They'll set you up and send you the instructions to login.

For the SOS-DLP FAQ's, go [urlhttp://soc.maxwell.af.mil/sos/socadl/index.htm=]here.[/url]

Did that, initial reply didn't give me login info, but got it cleared up. Thought it was going to be more ocmplicated then that - considering CAP gave me horrible guidance & my Wg webpage is outdated on the proceedure. Got it though, off & running.

Hey, there's an AFOATS Instructor Course on here, can I sign up for that? CAP instructor program too, I didn't think that was ready yet... hey this is cool.

If you can, it would be a great investment of your time. If it's anything like the USN school I attended, you'll learn a lot, but it isn't easy. My electronics schools were all easier than the instructor school.

I did the CAP Instructon Program. Unless it's been significantly revised, it was almost a waste of time.

Quote from: arajca on January 20, 2007, 06:45:55 PM
I did the CAP Instructon Program. Unless it's been significantly revised, it was almost a waste of time.

What I'm thinking about is anything that approximates the old Academic Instructor Circuit Rider Course that was offered in the 70s. It was a two day intense condensation of the Academic Instructor Course given at Maxwell.

Look at AFMAN 36-2236 (http://www.e-publishing.af.mil/pubfiles/af/36/afman36-2236/afman36-2236.pdf). This is the instructor bible, and has most of the info instructors need to teach. It encompasses both parts of the gig - classroom instructing, and curriculum development. They are intermingled a bit, since there is an overlap in necessary knowledge for each job.

Are the SOS questions the verbatim end of chapter review questions like the AFIADL 13 (ECI 13) ?

p.s. Don't tell anyone that the AFIADL 13 test questions are the end of chapter review questions-that would be unfair to the rest of you who bought dozens of multi-colored highlighters!

No. At least they didn't appear that way. They do cover the same material. Most of the Samples of Behavior are written answer - some can be lengthy.

Academic standards from ECI-13 to SOS are worlds apart.

I took SOS on CD three years ago, and thought it was kind of fun. There were slides of instructors as they lectured on audio, when it came time to answer questions, If you got it right, the next slide was  smile and "good job!"  Get it wrong, and the next slide featured the same instructor with a raised eyebrow, "You might want to think about your answer and try again."  Case Studies were pretty interesting, and the introduction to Air Power is something you'll never get in CAP.  Exams were not easy: they focused more on "synthesis of concepts" (the essence of college-level work) rather than just regurgitating the material.  There is also a section on Personnel Administration/Enlisted Personnel Management and Evaluation that are very USAF-specific-it was hard for me to dive enthusiastically into that one.  The optional role-playing video-game at the end was fun.

ACSC was much "drier," and didn't include the "Rah-Rah, welcome to the Officer Corps" motivational theme that SOS had.  Exams are also a tad bit more challenging-it's supposed to be graduate-level work.  The presentations were pretty interesting, particularly the case-study of the Lt Col Bud Holland's 1994 B-52 crash, as well as a thesis on why USAF's "Operation Linebacker" bombing campaign of 1972 would not have worked in previous years.  You also get an overview of each of the other services' organization, mission and doctrine.  The video game at the end of ACSC,  i.e, "How to win Gulf War Air Campaign in five moves or less." was a fun and challenging exercise in strategy and allocation of resources (that game is not optional: when you win, you get a code you have to submit on the ACSC Website.) 

Speaking of which, the ACSC web-portal was handy: you get your grade faster than waiting for the post-cards from AFIADL, and there are forums, much like this one.

The courses are no pushover, but what I really got out of it was exposure
to the same knowledgebase that a USAF officer would have: It's certainly an educational opportunity you won't get anywhere else.  Completion of ACSC is also a very nice line-item for your civilian resume. . . .   

I think that an SOS or ACSC-trained CAP Member adds value to their unit and the organization as a whole IF they adapt what they've learned to a CAP context (many will argue against, but the fact is that CAP and USAF "cultures" are very different.)  There is also a better chance of a CAP member who is an SOS/ACSC-Grad finding a common frame of reference, or at least familiar with a smidgen of the lingo when interacting with USAF personnel.

I would like to think that the prestige that comes with actually completing these courses gives members an edge as candidates for command (just as it would in the military) but alas, I have yet to see it.  (Again, CAP culture is different...)

Nonetheless, if you have the time, aptitude, and sticktoitiveness, I would highly recommend USAF PME courses.

^ great insight, thank you. It would be nice to see it enhance one's chance of command & the like. Certainly the in-res SOS is a place where possiblle future Sq CCs are judged & their careers positively or egatively influenced based on that judgement. In CAP I was just helping my Gp CC today to get log-in. I doubt a lot of Wg CCs go thru the process. It seems like RSC/NSC & the networking with the up & coming seems to be better for the politics of it.

Speaking of ACSC, the AF is testing a new variant of the program - ACSC Masters DL course. Upon completion, the student receives a Masters degree in Military Management. The cost is the same, and I've already submitted a question to them as to whether CAP members would be able to take this variant, although I haven't heard back yet.

Can anyone else see this as a HUGE benefit?

YES! --- IF YOU NEED ME TO SIGN A PETITION OR ANYTHING -lol- IM THERE

The test course starts this summer. I don't expect an answer until then.

I'm planning on taking it when I get Major (a couple years away at least).

Quote from: arajca on January 22, 2007, 02:17:53 PM
Speaking of ACSC, the AF is testing a new variant of the program - ACSC Masters DL course. Upon completion, the student receives a Masters degree in Military Management. The cost is the same, and I've already submitted a question to them as to whether CAP members would be able to take this variant, although I haven't heard back yet.

Can anyone else see this as a HUGE benefit?

I do. I think I will wait to attempt (again) the ACSC until we get an answer on that. I already have my Level V, so I can wait.  ;D

The SOS course was tough for me in itself (I took and passed it before I had an Associate's). When I took the ACSC and failed, I was in my first year of graduate school. Talk about an overload....

Quote from: arajca on January 22, 2007, 07:08:05 PM
The test course starts this summer. I don't expect an answer until then.

I'm planning on taking it when I get Major (a couple years away at least).

Well I was planning on taking it this summer or maybe late spring. Not going to have time for those things for a while after that. AU awarding a masters degree huh? That'd be great. I understood the existing ACSC was free to us. Would there be a cost to this (how much), and entrance requirements? I can just see the CAP Major w/ just high school trying to tak ethis & then trying to get a job on that basis. Really cool though.

For more information on the ACSC Masters DL program, here is the  ACSC Distance Learning Masters Degree Information page. (http://www.au.af.mil/au/dlmasters.asp)

Hmm question: for any RLNCOs if you take this through CAP or any of the other PME for that matter, does it count for anything at your AD/NG/Res unit?

Id love to take that Masters course... that would end [some of] the debate about our professionalism and /or education requirment shortfalls

A word on the ACSC Master's course: It sounds very much like the Naval  War College's "Fleet Seminar Program." for O-3's and O-4's:  You attend classes just like any college night-school program. 

It's not available everywhere (about half a dozen locations, major hubs like Norfolk, Diego, P'cola, etc.  Nor is it open to everyone. 

I imagine the this new ACSC program will be similarly structured and ALOT more difficult that the CD-ROM version, with  heavy writing requirement. 
Remember that PME's are not a "gimmee" for Officers: you usually have to be selected.  Seats may be limited, and candidates may have to compete for them:  Don't be surprised or offended if CAP members don't get invited right away. . .

Even with the current version, I know of more CAP members who drop the course than complete it.  Earning a Masters Degree through ACSC will not be a walk in the park....

Interesting. The master program on that link isn't ACSC. It says Majors will have the choice of the traditional ACSC-DL course & need an outside masters degree for career advancement, or they can cover both with this combination of AF & Joint-Def courses. 2-year program, 34hrs. Sounds good, I hope they do open it to CAP members eventualy, but it sounds like that's not something they're going to think about unless someone asks them to.

Quote from: SAR-EMT1 on January 23, 2007, 12:49:48 AM
Hmm question: for any RLNCOs if you take this through CAP or any of the other PME for that matter, does it count for anything at your AD/NG/Res unit?

LNCOs are not able to take officer PME thru CAP as they are not CAP officers in the correct grades. Now, CAP members who are also NCOs (AD, gruard, res) are able to take the courses just like any other CAP officer. I couldn't tell you if it helps them or not, but I'm sure it looks cool on the wall. A lot of cadets that go AF officer are able to stay involved with CAP & promote at our faster rate, which allows them to take the officer PME faster than they would normally be allowed to in the AF. That does seem to enhance things a touch, every advantage you can get it helpful. They'll still be sent to at least the in-res SOS at some point, and probably AWC toward the back end, but those are both good things.

AF PME looks good on the resume for civil service too.

Quote from: arajca on January 22, 2007, 09:44:54 PM
For more information on the ACSC Masters DL program, here is the  ACSC Distance Learning Masters Degree Information page. (http://www.au.af.mil/au/dlmasters.asp)

Arajca

I just signed up for ACSC but I would be very interested in hearing their answer about CAP members taking the Master's Course.
I will be looking for your post in April.

If I take SOS as a CAP Officer, and ROTC finally waives my medical and let me commission I'm going to have to take the course again?! grrr -teeth grinding ensues-

Quote from: SAR-EMT1 on January 24, 2007, 10:49:36 AM
If I take SOS as a CAP Officer, and ROTC finally waives my medical and let me commission I'm going to have to take the course again?! grrr -teeth grinding ensues-

You'll get the credit for taking it via correspondence, but they'll probably recommend you take it in-residence if offered.

^ indeed they will. You'll have the box checked already which makes your life easier, and because you've had it done for a while it makes you look like you are on the ball and/or over-quald for where they have you. That produces good opportunities, which in turn are good for your career. Eventually though you will have to take the in-res. The content is a bit different & that's the time when they watch you like a hawk to see who's going to get groomed for command & who's going to manage the kitchen in Korea... well it's a big step in that process anyway. It's good to get ACSC & AWC done via CAP later in your career. If you were say a pilot & didn't want to come out of the cockpit & lose your currency to attend a 9-12mo course, & here you already have it checked off. Those are great courses to go to in-res as well though. You get to be involved in some strategic doctorine type discussions that can shape policy.

Thats always good, but sadly I dont have 20/20 vision - even with specs- though I am picking up some credits towards a PPL. :)
THat said, Big Brother Blue has stated that if/ when I commission Im going to Minot to a nice big hole in the ground where I get to stare at a panel and contemplate the meaning of life.  ;D

Its the one way I know to be avoid being an "unrated weenie" while being forced to avoid an airframe.

Ok, my journey off topic aside. What are the chances of a CAP member ever being allowed to attend an IN RESIDENCE Course? Be it SOS ACSC etc...

I was told that even the AFIADL courses require some base visits to AU. Is this accurate? And if so what for/ how long?
Oh..and would the AF pay for the visit or would I?

Quote from: SAR-EMT1 on January 26, 2007, 04:32:14 AM
Oh..and would the AF pay for the visit or would I?

The Air Force isn't going to pay.  There is no surplus of money for something like this.  They have a hard enough time getting all the funding they need for the warfighters.  Beyond that, there isn't a mechanism that would allow you to pay for the training.    If there were, it would cost you thousands of dollars for some of the courses.

In-residence PME courses for CAP members?  The answer is "no."  

Slots to resident intermediate (ACSC) and advanced (AWC) courses courses are limited and very competitive within USAF.

Remember that SOS is several weeks in length, ACSC and AWC are about a year long.

Also, folks don't realize is that Military schools aren't free: when a servicemember attends a school, their organization gets a bill (these things go on way behind the scenes.)  That's why there are extended service committments associated with mil schooling: return on investment.  That's also why unit commanders get real ticked-off when their servicemembers flunk courses-it's not just a matter of pride: the unit still gets billed.  

DL courses are relatively cheap, so we get to participate pro bono.    

Understood gentlemen. However what of hearing that visits to AU are required - even for DL courses. ?

Quote from: SAR-EMT1 on January 26, 2007, 08:42:17 AM
Understood gentlemen. However what of hearing that visits to AU are required - even for DL courses. ?

I say again:

Quote from: shorning on January 26, 2007, 04:49:15 AM
The Air Force isn't going to pay. 

Ok, I understand that sir. But whether I pay or not my current question is this:
Are CAP students of the SOS, ACSC or AWC DL courses advised/required to visit Maxwell during the course? Ex: to participate in a table top or turn in assignments, graduation, etc.

Quote from: SAR-EMT1I was told that even the AFIADL courses require some base visits to AU. Is this accurate? And if so what for/ how long?

Quote from: SAR-EMT1 on January 26, 2007, 09:52:30 AM
Are CAP students of the SOS, ACSC or AWC DL courses advised/required to visit Maxwell during the course? Ex: to participate in a table top or turn in assignments, graduation, etc.

CAP members are voluntarily taking AFIADL courses; there will not be a requirement for you to travel to Maxwell for any portion of the class.  Could you voluntarily?  Doubtful.  Why?  Because those courses do not have a mechanism for you to participate. 

For example, info from AWC says, "Civil Air Patrol officers in the grades of lieutenant colonel selectee and above are eligible for enrollment in the Correspondence Program only."  That means you can't participate in the in-residence classes.  By extrapolation you could apply that to the other courses.  So there would be no requirement to visit Maxwell during the course.

To me, it sounds like you're looking for a reason to go "play Air Force".

Hey I think it'd be a good thing to have a few top notch CAP officers in on the strategic doctorine defining resaerch & discussions that happen at AWC, but there's other ways to do that, and no way in hell anyone's taking a slot away from AF personnel to put you there. If you're lucky they might let you participate on base w/ other people enrolled in the DL course, but I doubt it, again no mechanism.

Just to update. I'm all of halfway thru the first section (profession of arms) and holy crap that's a good course. I'm sure I could highlight it in power point to get teh points across w/o the serious academic (mental) investment this is taking, but I'm quite impressed with the content so far. A lot of complaints people have aboutlack of leadership in CAP, be it from the top or at any other level, are directly addressed in a straight forward manner.

I am glad someone else sees the benefits of the course. I am also preparing for the Professions of Arms test. It is ordered and should arrive at the TCF shortly. I believe the test is more than power point deep and others should be cautioned that even though the material is good stuff it is not without work. You get two chances to take the tests. Fail any one of them twice and you are done.  It seems that the material is presented in a clear concise manner to stimulate conceptual understanding of the authors presented.

It is pretty clear. the audio is horrible, & the slides a little small, but otherwise pretty good. It does skip around a bit in places though rather than following the sort of strict outline format you'd expect in a college lecture, enough so that you do feel spoon fed at all. I don't want to put anyone off, but I do think it'd be much more difficult w/o some college experience. Not just in the presentation & intellectual requiremenets, but the depth of the material as well. The readings are superb. I just read officership foundations last night; in all seriousness, wish all corporate officers would review it; gonna use it as the base for a pre-C/CC sort of course we're putting together here.

Need to order the tests... how do I do that?

Quote from: DNall on January 30, 2007, 02:11:55 PM
I don't want to put anyone off, but I do think it'd be much more difficult w/o some college experience. Not just in the presentation & intellectual requirements, but the depth of the material as well.

Good point: remember that SOS is geared to a USAF 1st Lt./Capt who should already have an undergraduate degree (also, ACE recommends upper level college credits for SOS)  ACSC ratchets it up a-notch: be prepared.  I'm told that the new DL AWC is essay/term-paper intensive. ???

Tests-It's been a while: I think for SOS, exam requests were included with the material.  I do know that for ACSC, when you get your grade on your completed test, they automatically send you the next one.

They don't send any material now. It's all an online course w/ video modules & PDFs for the readings. The provide PDFs if you want to print the text version, but I got no interest in that other than to save the content for outside use - also some real nice course creation tools in the system so I can rip conent to slides to make a cadet class. Still need to explore that more, but looks very cool for my purposes.

I did figure out though that the TCO has to email a specific address & explain why I can't take it at an on-base computer testing facility, then they'll mail the first one & others come one at a time as I pass them. The proceedure for all this was not exactly user friendly, but they are in transition & CAP dpesn't have the update info anywhere that I've found.

I ahve just requested my test for the SOS course. I am doing the paper exam through one of the local squadrons. Requesting the paper one was very easy with a short explination as to why I could travel 1 1/2 hours to take each test. Should come in the next few weeks. I will keep folks informed.

How much does AFIADL enforce the rule of being a Captain to get into SOS? is AFIADL very picky about that sort of thing with CAP? any chance I could "sneak" in as a 1st Lt???  ;D

Why would you want to jepardize our ability to take AFIADL courses by breaking the rules?

AF officers need to be Capt's (Capt selects don't qualify) before they can take SOS either in residence or by correspondence. CAP follows the same rules. AFIADL may just refuse your enrollment or it may decide to block all CAP enrollments because of you. I don't know exactly how they will react, so I wouldn't push the issue.

Now, for ACSC, the AF allows Maj selects to take it and actually includes CAP Maj selects in their requirements. Question comes up, what is a CAP Maj select? A Capt with Level III completed?

Quote from: DrJbdm on February 04, 2007, 05:44:48 PM
How much does AFIADL enforce the rule of being a Captain to get into SOS? is AFIADL very picky about that sort of thing with CAP? any chance I could "sneak" in as a 1st Lt???  ;D

So you would LIE and say you are a Captain when registering?

QuoteSo you would LIE and say you are a Captain when registering?

  Who said anything about lying?? My question was can 1st Lt's get into SOS or does AFIADL really restrict enrollments to Capt? I have heard of CAP Capt's taking ACSC and so I was wondering about Lt's taking SOS. No where in there did I say I would LIE! Please do not assume I am the type who would nor should you read too much into the question.  I also wouldn't attempt to take SOS without knowing if others have gotten into the program as Lt's.

I'm not going to be the one who causes everyone else to lose a great privilege. Thats why I ask the questions first.

Quote from: arajca on February 04, 2007, 05:53:51 PM
Why would you want to jepardize our ability to take AFIADL courses by breaking the rules?

AF officers need to be Capt's (Capt selects don't qualify) before they can take SOS either in residence or by correspondence. CAP follows the same rules. AFIADL may just refuse your enrollment or it may decide to block all CAP enrollments because of you. I don't know exactly how they will react, so I wouldn't push the issue.

Now, for ACSC, the AF allows Maj selects to take it and actually includes CAP Maj selects in their requirements. Question comes up, what is a CAP Maj select? A Capt with Level III completed?

Way I interpret it, according to CAPR 50-17 and 35-5 you're fully qualified for promotion to Major when you complete Level III requirements. You still have to do your 3 years time-in-grade as Captain. (I've already gotten my Level III out of the way and still hafta wait until July for Captain. And then another 3 years TIG for Major.)

If I were me I would wait until I have a year left TIG as a Captain and completed SOS before enrolling in ACSC. Soon as my railroad tracks become official in eServices is when I'll enroll in SOS.

Just finished taking going over the on-line course.  I almost hate to admit this but I signed up for it on 9/29/05.  This gives me until 3/29/07 to complete the course.  I found it quite interesting even if it had no relevance to CAP.  I knew that going in and just thought it would be good to take a "real" Air Force course.  I walked away from it several times due to work constraints.  I also just tried the CAP Stone exercise yesterday for the first time.  I failed miserably!  Couldn't make it past the landmines. 

I'm open to any advice on anyone who has made it past.   :)

Quote from: Hoodsie on February 09, 2007, 09:04:24 PM
Just finished taking going over the on-line course.  I almost hate to admit this but I signed up for it on 9/29/05.  This gives me until 3/29/07 to complete the course.  I found it quite interesting even if it had no relevance to CAP.  I knew that going in and just thought it would be good to take a "real" Air Force course.  I walked away from it several times due to work constraints.  I also just tried the CAP Stone exercise yesterday for the first time.  I failed miserably!  Couldn't make it past the landmines. 

I'm open to any advice on anyone who has made it past.   :)

Maybe it gets worse as you go along, I'm just in the profession of arms section waiting for tests to be shipped, but I find it highly applicable to CAP. I mean broad based officership lessons, talking about the obligations of an officer to their service, the warrior attitude was a big thing... you know the part where they are talking about how 4% of AF officers are pilots, 60% are in a non-combat related job, but we have to have all those people thinking like front line fighters or the mission doesn't come off... I find that EXACTLY applicable to CAP. It's easy for us to sit back here & think of ourselves as civilians & volunteers & a corporation, but we know our dedicated efficient service saves money that's moved to warfighters, and here we are at war. Yeah, I think that lesson speaks directly to CAP. A couple things here & there apply more to them than to us, but there's a valuable CAP take to be had on everything in the course & if you sat thru it thinking you'd memorize for the tests but none of it had anything to do with your CAP service, than I'm sorry for you.

Have you ordered the tests by the way? Each one takes 2-3 weeks shipping & they only come one at a time. The course is supposed to be done in one year, and that's allowing time for shipping, they're currently at 18months because people are also deployed. If you hadn't ordered tests yet, you need to withdraw & re-enroll, then read the introductory warning about procrastination.

You only need to order the first one. They send the others as you pass each test. When you pass the 28A test, they'll send out the 28B test. When you pass the 28B test, they'll send the 28C test, etc.

yeah & allow 2-3 weeks shipping between each one, not couting time to return the test after you take it. So basically, 5-6 of those 18 months are there for shipping.

Word of caution.........make sure you have the correct shred code for your testing area. The one I found on the website was old. I had to call the wing administrator to get the updated one. The test is at an Air Base and is going to have to be forwarded. I am looking forward to getting it done. The only thing I have left to finish level four.

Those things are based on zip codes, so unless your Wg HQ has moved in the last few years it should be right, but of course check it.

Quote from: DNall
I find it highly applicable to CAP.

Section 9-11 : Joint operations... that's ICS right there.

If you haven't gotten to 28D - Communications Studies, you'll need a copy of Tonque and Quill when you do. If you can print it out, great, otherwise, you'll spend a lot of time staring at your computer screen. The first five units of 28D require reading chapters 1 - 9 of T&Q. It's mostly "How write a paper", similar to English Composition in school.

Great. I was hoping for more out of that section. I got a copy of T&Q here, think it actually came with ECI-13, but dont' remember. And I got it save on the computer. There's a DoD joint officer version also that's more thurough & T&Q refers out to a few times. I'm on the way out the door for a cadet thing this weekend, but I'll try to remember to link it Sunday/Monday.

The second half is how to write AF docs like the Official Memorandum, Talking Points Paper, and the ever popular Staff Study. >:D

Well that sounds fun & familiar, but probably a good thing. Lil refresher can't hurt.

For the second part of 28D, you actually create the memo, TPP, and SSS using a scenario they provide. Hands on is good.

thats not so bad. it prob is good for CAP members to do more of that stuff anyway

Got T/Q from my time in AFROTC. Glad to know Ill get some use out of it.

Can SOS, ACSC, and other Air Force PME courses take the place of SLS, CLC, and RSC?  I've been trying to figure this out.

If so, I plan to take that route versus the CAP route when I get back in. 

Quote from: 12211985 on July 01, 2007, 06:48:12 AM
Can SOS, ACSC, and other Air Force PME courses take the place of SLS, CLC, and RSC?  I've been trying to figure this out.

If so, I plan to take that route versus the CAP route when I get back in. 

No...SLS and CLC are strictly CAP oriented and must be completed to advance up the normal track for promotion.  RSC can be circumnavigated only by certain PME, if memory serves. 

Darn!  SLS and CLC are the ones I would least like to attend.  Too much stuff about the corporation and sitting through more BTDT stories than briefings on what's really important. 

Quote from: 12211985 on July 01, 2007, 08:40:30 AM
Darn!  SLS and CLC are the ones I would least like to attend.  Too much stuff about the corporation and sitting through more BTDT stories than briefings on what's really important. 

Uh...you are joining US Civil Air Patrol, 1) that's the way it is, 2) that's the way it works and 3) that tells you the culture of the organization. 

That is the "nature of the beast," the structure to whence you will work. 

I can assume by your comments, then, that you know nothing about SLS and CLC. 

Although I've never been to an SLS or CLC, I know someone who has graduated from both.  This officer has described SLS as being taught mostly in the fashion of older members telling their stories about their own CAP experiences, and the CLC as having a curriculum which is filled with things about how to protect the corporation.

Thanks, but if I had the choice between CAP PD and USAF PME, I'd choose the USAF PME in a heartbeat.  Unfortunately, CAP members outside of the military don't have that option.  Hopefully, that will change.   

Quote from: 12211985 on July 01, 2007, 08:59:44 AM
Although I've never been to an SLS or CLC, I know someone who has graduated from both.  This officer has described SLS as being taught mostly in the fashion of older members telling their stories about their own CAP experiences, and the CLC as having a curriculum which is filled with things about how to protect the corporation.

Well, the SLS should be based on experience and is set up where CAP members get an overview of all of CAP given by people who have been in that section of CAP.  That is why it is called Squadron Leadership School.  CLC is called a "Corporate Learning Course," but deals with how CAP is run at higher levels.

You could, of course, join and remain a 1st Lt and feed off of establishing a great local program fulfilling the Missions of CAP at a local level in the areas you desire.  Then become of of the instructors at an SLS or CLC. 

Then you could keep your hands out of the CAP politics "mousetrap;" however, your posts point out that you must thrive on CAP Politics since you post here and are not a current member.  I find it hard that you could "stay out of it" as a member.

My advice would be to find a local unit and spend another 9 years making it the best consarn one you can...then move up to high office.  By then the Majors and Colonels you dislike will be gone...politics has a high attrition rate...and you can address all the issues and POLITICS you want.

Thanks, but no thanks.  Despite my postings, I hate politics.  Politics/corruption is one of the big reasons why I post in the manner I do.  Because of what I've seen, I can't see myself going higher than Lt Col and certainly no higher than the squadron level.  The politics in this organization is so hyperactive that going above the squadron level is something you do at your own risk. 

By the way, I hope it was my postings that led you to believe that I was interested in CAP politics, and not the fact that I post while being a former member. 

Politics is simply two or more individuals or entities competing for limited resources: it's just an inescapable part of group dynamics.

Politics is just as prevalent in the Military: just go to the Pentagon and watch the show......

Quality leadership in CAP, like any other orgainzation ebbs & flows: when there is a void in competent, effective leadership, we gambe that eventually the pendulum will swing the other way, and we prepare for it.

You can either participate, and make a difference, even if ever-so-slight, even if it's for one individual, or you can remain on the sidelines.

The fact that you are posting on this forum indicates interest.

Take the plunge: what do you have to lose?

Quote from: 12211985 on July 01, 2007, 08:59:44 AMThanks, but if I had the choice between CAP PD and USAF PME, I'd choose the USAF PME in a heartbeat.  Unfortunately, CAP members outside of the military don't have that option.  Hopefully, that will change.   

Should you decide to join CAP and progress above 1st Lt, you will have to take SLS. There is no AF PME waiver for SLS or CLC. AFIADL 13 can be waived through a variety of means. RSC can be waived by taking SOS or higher (or other service  equivelent) PME. NSC can be waived by taking ACSC or higher (or other...) PME. The NCO academies fit in here as well, but I'm not sure just where.

Quote from: O-Rex on July 01, 2007, 03:17:19 PM
Politics is simply two or more individuals or entities competing for limited resources: it's just an inescapable part of group dynamics.

So, what resources are CAP OFFICERS competing for with the "US CAP" issue?

CAP Politics comes in several forms:

1) Petty Ambitions: Wanted to be a high ranking "CAP Offical," for prestigue.  To have Power (a laughable concept in CAP when you think of it)
2) Hording Aircraft and other resources:flight clubs that think that a CAP aircraft is especially "their baby," and manuever to continue to make that so.
3) Agendism and Bias: someone or group of someones have an agenda or bias , often realted to the two above causes.
4) Cantankerous curudgeonism: folks that just like to stir up trouble for the sake of teh argument

Don't seem to follow the Core Values of CAP now, do they?

Re: SLS and CLC...

First of all, the SLS curriculum is being overhauled, and CLC is next.  If you wait a few years, the student materials and slide presentations will be better for those courses.

Also, if your Wing doesn't run good SLS and CLC courses, just go somewhere that does.  The quality of the training depends largely on the instructors, and as we all know, some instructors are better than others.

Quote from: 12211985 on July 01, 2007, 08:59:44 AM
Although I've never been to an SLS or CLC, I know someone who has graduated from both.  This officer has described SLS as being taught mostly in the fashion of older members telling their stories about their own CAP experiences, and the CLC as having a curriculum which is filled with things about how to protect the corporation.

Here's what SLS *should* cover: http://level2.cap.gov/visitors/programs/programs_for_adults/professional_development/resident_courses/squadron_leadership_school.cfm (http://level2.cap.gov/visitors/programs/programs_for_adults/professional_development/resident_courses/squadron_leadership_school.cfm)

And here's what CLC *should* cover: http://level2.cap.gov/visitors/programs/programs_for_adults/professional_development/resident_courses/corporate_learning_course.cfm (http://level2.cap.gov/visitors/programs/programs_for_adults/professional_development/resident_courses/corporate_learning_course.cfm)

There are links on both pages to scheduled classes across the nation.  If your wing doesn't meet your standards, go to the courses elsewhere.  Keep in mind, "wise men learn more from fools than fools do from the wise".  There are nuggets to be gleaned from even the worst presentations.

QuoteThanks, but if I had the choice between CAP PD and USAF PME, I'd choose the USAF PME in a heartbeat.  Unfortunately, CAP members outside of the military don't have that option.

Not true.  ANY CAP officer may take SOS, ACSC, and AWC by correspondence, once reaching the appropriate rank in CAP.  SOS done in this manner will satisfy the requirement for RSC.

In the new format, SLS and CLC will only require 1 day in residence.  That's not much to endure.  (Not that 2 days was much of an imposition either.)

Quote from: Fifinella on July 01, 2007, 07:34:35 PM
Not true.  ANY CAP officer may take SOS, ACSC, and AWC by correspondence, once reaching the appropriate rank in CAP.  SOS done in this manner will satisfy the requirement for RSC.

And unless they've changed it since I retired, ACSC will satisfy the requirements for NSC.  That's how I got my GRW award.

Jack

Quote from: 12211985 on July 01, 2007, 08:59:44 AM
Although I've never been to an SLS or CLC, I know someone who has graduated from both.  This officer has described SLS as being taught mostly in the fashion of older members telling their stories about their own CAP experiences, and the CLC as having a curriculum which is filled with things about how to protect the corporation.

Thanks, but if I had the choice between CAP PD and USAF PME, I'd choose the USAF PME in a heartbeat.  Unfortunately, CAP members outside of the military don't have that option.  Hopefully, that will change.   

"There is a principle which is a bar against all information,
which is proof against all arguments and
which cannot fail to keep a man in everlasting ignorance—
that principle is contempt prior to investigation."

—Herbert Spencer

Quote from: 12211985 on July 01, 2007, 08:40:30 AM
Darn!  SLS and CLC are the ones I would least like to attend.  Too much stuff about the corporation and sitting through more BTDT stories than briefings on what's really important. 

Well, if you were a real member and kept current, you would know that there are new curricula for SLS and CLC that are much better (INHO) than the previous ones. I'll be teaching at an SLS this weekend, and am looking forward to it.

For Fifinella, they are both still two day courses. Ain't no way I'd try to teach either of them in one day, and I can talk really fast.

Quote from: justin_bailey on July 01, 2007, 05:57:31 PM
Re: SLS and CLC...
First of all, the SLS curriculum is being overhauled, and CLC is next.  If you wait a few years, the student materials and slide presentations will be better for those courses.

both SLS and CLC have already been revamped... and I've used the new PD material in June... it works quite well.
see:    http://www.cap.gov/sls (http://www.cap.gov/sls)     and       http://www.cap.gov/clc (http://www.cap.gov/clc)

Quote from: justin_bailey on July 01, 2007, 05:57:31 PM
Re: SLS and CLC...

Also, if your Wing doesn't run good SLS and CLC courses, just go somewhere that does.  The quality of the training depends largely on the instructors, and as we all know, some instructors are better than others.

OR...  become a PDO yourself and make it happen!

Quote from: SarDragon on July 02, 2007, 12:22:55 AM
For Fifinella, they are both still two day courses. Ain't no way I'd try to teach either of them in one day, and I can talk really fast.

:D

Respectfully, Sir, the new format is self-study prior to attendance, and only 1 day in residence.

"Future plans call for both the SLS and CLC to include an e-Learning component prior to the resident course which will allow students to complete portions of the courses online and should reduce the required resident attendance from two days to one day." - From the Knowledgebase, "Can a SLS or CLC be a one-day event?"

Don't know the reason for the change, but I think FLWG has already held an SLS using this new format.

Quote from: Major Carrales on July 01, 2007, 05:46:51 PM

Quote from: O-Rex on July 01, 2007, 03:17:19 PM
Politics is simply two or more individuals or entities competing for limited resources: it's just an inescapable part of group dynamics.

So, what resources are CAP OFFICERS competing for with the "US CAP" issue?

CAP Politics comes in several forms:

1) Petty Ambitions: Wanted to be a high ranking "CAP Offical," for prestigue.  To have Power (a laughable concept in CAP when you think of it)
2) Hording Aircraft and other resources:flight clubs that think that a CAP aircraft is especially "their baby," and manuever to continue to make that so.
3) Agendism and Bias: someone or group of someones have an agenda or bias , often realted to the two above causes.
4) Cantankerous curudgeonism: folks that just like to stir up trouble for the sake of teh argument

Don't seem to follow the Core Values of CAP now, do they?

Ely,

Like you and many of our true-believing brethren, I'm waiting for the pendulum to swing the other way..........

Quote from: Fifinella on July 02, 2007, 01:21:18 AM

Quote from: SarDragon on July 02, 2007, 12:22:55 AM
For Fifinella, they are both still two day courses. Ain't no way I'd try to teach either of them in one day, and I can talk really fast.

:D

Respectfully, Sir, the new format is self-study prior to attendance, and only 1 day in residence.

"Future plans call for both the SLS and CLC to include an e-Learning component prior to the resident course which will allow students to complete portions of the courses online and should reduce the required resident attendance from two days to one day." - From the Knowledgebase, "Can a SLS or CLC be a one-day event?"

Don't know the reason for the change, but I think FLWG has already held an SLS using this new format.

May I offer this  :angel: ... to Capt. LaValley and SM Bowles... 
I believe the CAP Knowledgebase referred to is Answer # 1408 (last updated 03/01/2007) found at:

KBase Linky (http://capnhq.custhelp.com/cgi-bin/capnhq.cfg/php/enduser/std_adp.php?p_faqid=1408&p_created=1094235435&p_sid=Wn8M5zFi&p_accessibility=0&p_redirect=&p_lva=&p_sp=cF9zcmNoPTEmcF9zb3J0X2J5PWRmbHQmcF9ncmlkc29ydD0mcF9yb3dfY250PTQyNyZwX3Byb2RzPSZwX2NhdHM9MCZwX3B2PSZwX2N2PSZwX3NlYXJjaF90eXBlPWFuc3dlcnMuc2VhcmNoX25sJnBfcGFnZT0xJnBfc2VhcmNoX3RleHQ9RnV0dXJlIHBsYW5zIGNhbGwgZm9yIGJvdGggdGhlIFNMUyBhbmQgQ0xD&p_li=&p_topview=1)

if we can agree that we may be talking about two, separate course formats for SLS/CLC, then we can continue discussions whereby
IN ADDITION TO any said "Future plans" for a 1-day pre-read, e-Learning format...
is the current, new, revamped 2-day, in class format, with totally new
(and, IMHO, better ) materials for SLS and CLC

These current, new, updated formats are posted on CAP NHQ and available now...
I've used the new PD material in our June 2007 Wing SLS... (and will again use in our Nov '07 Group SLS)
see:    http://www.cap.gov/sls  (http://www.cap.gov/sls)    and       http://www.cap.gov/clc (http://www.cap.gov/clc)


I would be interested to see the Director's guide for this 1 day e-learning SLS format, that you say FL has already used,
I like the idea of pre-reading some of the material, as it helps the student learn and retain the concepts
(and yes, would shorten in-class time).


further, (for 12211985) the value of the SLS introduces the Level 2 Officer to how the Squadron works.
similarly,  the value of the CLC is threefold:
1) introduces the Level 3 Officer to how the Wing works, and
2) how the Wing / Squadron relationship in the CAP organizational heirarchy works.
AND (most importantly for the W/S relationship)... 3) introduces you to your Wing-staff (as CLC instructors),

KBase Linky breaking the board - MIKE

Quote from: Fifinella on July 02, 2007, 01:21:18 AM

Quote from: SarDragon on July 02, 2007, 12:22:55 AM
For Fifinella, they are both still two day courses. Ain't no way I'd try to teach either of them in one day, and I can talk really fast.

:D

Respectfully, Sir, the new format is self-study prior to attendance, and only 1 day in residence.

"Future plans call for both the SLS and CLC to include an e-Learning component prior to the resident course which will allow students to complete portions of the courses online and should reduce the required resident attendance from two days to one day." - From the Knowledgebase, "Can a SLS or CLC be a one-day event?"

Don't know the reason for the change, but I think FLWG has already held an SLS using this new format.

OK, I just looked at your links, and that's the same material I'm using. Right above the download links is a statement in a yellow box: "This is not currently an e-learning course. This material (curriculum) is provided to help you plan your events." In its current form, it is not teachable in one day.

BTW, for Ms. Carlson, I am a senior member, not a SMWOG. I choose not to display my rank, hence the spelled out words, and not just SM.

Quote from: SarDragon on July 02, 2007, 07:50:54 AM
BTW, for Ms. Carlson, I am a senior member, not a SMWOG. I choose not to display my rank, hence the spelled out words, and not just SM.

Why thank you for that clarification Mr. Boyle...  my humblest apologies if I insulted either you or your unidentified grade.

Finally finished the last test for the SOS course. This was the largest of the tests. 80 questions. That makes a total of about 250 for the whole thing. I think I would just rather spend a week in NSC than do the ACSC. Not at this point!

Quote from: caphistorian on July 03, 2007, 02:25:25 PM
I think I would just rather spend a week in NSC than do the ACSC. Not at this point!

I could understand that, but ... my ACSC credits went toward finishing my Specialist's degree in Education, so it helped in my civilian career too!  I doubt NSC courses would do that ... would they?

Jack

Quote from: arajca on July 01, 2007, 05:38:33 PM


Should you decide to join CAP and progress above 1st Lt, you will have to take SLS. There is no AF PME waiver for SLS or CLC. AFIADL 13 can be waived through a variety of means. RSC can be waived by taking SOS or higher (or other service  equivelent) PME. NSC can be waived by taking ACSC or higher (or other...) PME. The NCO academies fit in here as well, but I'm not sure just where.

Can you please expound on the various ways to waive the ECI-13 with citation.  Thank you.

Quote from: spaatzmom on July 05, 2007, 05:05:57 AM
Can you please expound on the various ways to waive the ECI-13 with citation.  Thank you.

Here you go.

Quote from: CAPR 50-17
4-5. CAP Senior Officer Course (CAPSOC) (AFIADL Course 00013).
The CAPSOC provides study in areas essential to becoming an effective leader in CAP, e.g., communications, leadership, and management. Since CAP deems this course necessary for career development, any CAP senior member who has completed Level I may apply. CAP members who have completed a Professional Military Education (PME) school equivalent to the CAPSOC may use this equivalent as a substitute (see Attachment 2).

Quote from: CAPR 50-17, Attachment 2
Equivalent to CAP Senior Officer Course
Code Z Any US Armed Forces NCO Academy (Pay Grades E-5 - E-6) or equivalent, resident or correspondence

Equivalent to CAP Senior Officer Course/Region Staff College
Code P Any US Armed Forces Senior NCO Academy (Pay Grades E-7 - E-9), resident or correspondence

Code W USAF Squadron Officer School, USA Basic/Advance Officer Courses or USN, USMC, USCG equivalent, resident or correspondence

Code V All Service Academies, ROTC, OCS, or OTS

Code X Any US Armed Forces Command and Staff College, resident, seminar, or correspondence

Code T Any US Armed Forces War College, resident, seminar, or correspondence

Equivalent to National Staff College
Code P Any US Armed Forces Senior NCO Academy (Pay Grades E-7 - E-9), resident or correspondence

Code X Any US Armed Forces Command and Staff College, resident, seminar, or correspondence

Code T Any US Armed Forces War College, resident, seminar, or correspondence

Thank you for your time spent and help.

Quote from: SarDragon on July 02, 2007, 07:50:54 AMBTW, for Ms. Carlson, I am a senior member, not a SMWOG. I choose not to display my rank, hence the spelled out words, and not just SM.

When they first went to calling us Officers, I thought it was kind of cheesy, but I'm starting to see the difference in connotations, not so much against "Senior Member" but the fact that we want folks to act like officers. As we are working on developing our Squadron OCS course, I'm liking it even more and more as it embodies the kind of professionalism and attitude that we want our people to have. While I don't think it's an automatic switch (call them an officer and they'll act like one), in conjunction with some good instruction and explanation of exactly waht it means to be an officer, it just might get folks somewhere closer to where we need them to be.

"Officer, CAP" would fit just fine in a signature line and avoid any confusion. Not even a suggestion , just a vague and rambling thought.

Well, the term Officer doesn't cover every non-cadet member. A SMWOG is not, by definition, an officer, but is still a senior member. Also, I think the term Senior Member is one of our traditions that shouldn't be arbitrarily discarded. Adult Member might be more definitive, but might make too close an association with other youth groups.

Quote from: caphistorian on July 03, 2007, 02:25:25 PM
Finally finished the last test for the SOS course. This was the largest of the tests. 80 questions. That makes a total of about 250 for the whole thing. I think I would just rather spend a week in NSC than do the ACSC. Not at this point!

How did it compare as far as detail orientation and difficulty to the other tests? (I'm taking it next week)

Quote from: SarDragon on July 06, 2007, 07:40:27 AM
Well, the term Officer doesn't cover every non-cadet member. A SMWOG is not, by definition, an officer, but is still a senior member. Also, I think the term Senior Member is one of our traditions that shouldn't be arbitrarily discarded. Adult Member might be more definitive, but might make too close an association with other youth groups.

In our squadron, we call our new members Officer Candidates until they are commissioned.

Quote from: floridacyclist on July 13, 2007, 08:02:10 PM
In our squadron, we call our new members Officer Candidates until they are commissioned.

When did we start commissioning our officers in CAP?

Quote from: DeputyDog on July 14, 2007, 02:28:04 AM

Quote from: floridacyclist on July 13, 2007, 08:02:10 PM
In our squadron, we call our new members Officer Candidates until they are commissioned.

When did we start commissioning our officers in CAP?

Give it a break.  You know what he meant.

Finished. Took last test at Buckley AFB testing center. 85%.

Quote from: DeputyDog on July 14, 2007, 02:28:04 AM

Quote from: floridacyclist on July 13, 2007, 08:02:10 PM
In our squadron, we call our new members Officer Candidates until they are commissioned.

When did we start commissioning our officers in CAP?

Heard a new one recently...a cadet at NESA asked me how I was "decommissioned" from the AF.  :D

QuoteHeard a new one recently...a cadet at NESA asked me how I was "decommissioned" from the AF.

Hopefully with more TLC than I was "dismembered" from CAP.

Enrolled in SOS... now waiting for access to the online portion.

It's official - I got my card and diploma in the mail today.

Can someone tell me what the breakdown is these days as far as the paper side of SOS vs the computer side? I can handle a paper based course and can put up with a CD rom version... reason I ask is that
my staging area - the place where my rig is parked when not on a call was switched from a fire house (with great fiber optic internet access) to a school parking lot (with no internet access) - THOUGH I DID READ THE LAST HARRY POTTER BOOK IN ONE 12 HOUR SHIFT -  ;)

My schedule being what it is, this is the first time in two or three weeks Ive been online at all and this situation wont change soon.  - I pin on Captains bars in a month and SOS is liable to be the first thing I do.

Thanks

SOS is now web-based.  There is no longer a paper-based course.  However, you could download the readings to your computer and do them off-line.

When you get your log in, if you have a high-speed connection, download the texts (there are five) and the Samples of Behavior. DO THE SAMPLES OF BEHAVIOR!!! The tests come from the Samples of Behavior.

Make sure follow the new rules regarding testing for SOS. If there is an AF base nearby, contact the Education and Training Office as soon as you are registered - meaning after you get the litle post card telling you so. It takes a little while for the ETO to set you up for testing, but they only have to do it once. Remember, you're probably one of the very few CAP members the ETO folks will see so be sure you're wearing an appropriate uniform and that you are wearing it correctly. When I took my test, most AD personnel were wearing bdu's. A few (officers) were wearing khaki's (Navy) or flight suits (AF). Also, leave your books in the car or at home.

I would have to agree with the sample behaviors suggestion. The last part of this was tougher than the rest to me. I received the card in the mail and the Certificate a few days later. Sent to NHQ and had credit for course in eservices in a week. Great job on Susie Parkers part. Level IV completion showed up a few days later. All I need to complete Level V is National Staff College. ACSC will be much later.

Finally got in with the AU registrar and am beginning the SOS online course. Downloaded the texts and the LOs/SOBs (no, not THAT SOB... Lesson Objectives/Samples of Behavior). I'm printing a hard copy of the texts so I can follow along or study when offline.

Took the 28A test today and got a 90%. One down, four to go. :)

Just got in on Friday.  Looks interesting.  Decided to skip telling them I was a CAP member, and went the military "sister service" registration route.  No waiting on the State Director or fools at Wing HQ. 

All I did was call the ETO and they verified I was enrolled in SOS. I took them less than an hour to get me set up in their system. Altogether, I spent about ten minutes on the phone over two calls.

Quote from: mikeylikey on August 19, 2007, 09:50:41 PM
Just got in on Friday.  Looks interesting.  Decided to skip telling them I was a CAP member, and went the military "sister service" registration route.  No waiting on the State Director or fools at Wing HQ. 

Is that going to pose a problem later on down the road?

^  Should not, I will just fax my certificate to the registrar at NHQ if I pass.  Now if I don't pass.....that could be a problem. 

Quote from: arajca on August 19, 2007, 10:10:16 PM
All I did was call the ETO and they verified I was enrolled in SOS. I took them less than an hour to get me set up in their system. Altogether, I spent about ten minutes on the phone over two calls.

Andrew, would you mind explaining step-by-step how to do it for those of us who have not yet?

Quote from: Pylon on August 20, 2007, 02:15:45 AM

Quote from: arajca on August 19, 2007, 10:10:16 PM
All I did was call the ETO and they verified I was enrolled in SOS. I took them less than an hour to get me set up in their system. Altogether, I spent about ten minutes on the phone over two calls.

Andrew, would you mind explaining step-by-step how to do it for those of us who have not yet?

Sure.
Step 1. Locate nearest AFB or AFRes facility (Buckley AFB, in my case)
Step 2. Pull up base phone directory online and look for Education and Training Office.
Step 3. Call during business hours.
Step 4. Answer questions fully and be prepared to give the last six of you SSAN.
Step 5. ETO will call you back after getting you setup in their system and verifying your eligibility and let you know when testing is taking place.
Step 6. Reserve seat - the number of seats at each testing facility is limited and must be reserved.
Step 7. Make sure you know where the testing facility is located - NOW is the time to ask for directions on base. Let's assume you know how to get to the base.
Step 8. Show up at least 15 minutes before testing starts with CAP membership card and  state or federal ID with photo. Wear an appropriate uniform. The military personnel were wearing all types of uniforms from class b-style to bdu's and flightsuits. I recommend one of the service uniforms.

Awesome - thank you!  Makes it a lot more clear how to get through it.  When work settles down in the next month or so, I really want to enroll in SOS.

28A 90%
28B 79%

Two down, three to go. :) 28C scheduled for 9 October.

^  Good work!  Keep it UP   :)

3 down, 2 to go... Passed 28C today with an 80%. It seemed harder than the previous two.

Quote from: Capt Ballard on October 15, 2007, 02:56:30 AM
3 down, 2 to go... Passed 28C today with an 80%. It seemed harder than the previous two.

The C exam is the one that covers two sections, right?  If I recall, it is the hardest of the four.  The D exam isn't so bad.

Congrats.

Actually there are five exams.

28A = Profession of Arms
28B = Military Studies
28C = International & Joint Studies
28D = Communication Studies
28E = Leadership & Management

Quote from: Capt Ballard on October 15, 2007, 02:37:39 PM
Actually there are five exams.

28A = Profession of Arms
28B = Military Studies
28C = International & Joint Studies
28D = Communication Studies
28E = Leadership & Management

So here it is December, how did you make out?

Anyone else enroll/ finish recently?

I just have 10 more SOBs to fill out then I'm going to schedule my test for 28A

I am thinking about taking this course in the future.  Has anyone taken the exams with a USAFR member?  The nearest AFB is almost 4 hours away and the nearest testing facility 2.5.  However, the Reservist is 15 minutes. 

I enrolled last week.  I'm through Chapter 1 of the first section.  I set myself a goal of six months to complete the course, with milestones in between for each of the five modules.  If I don't set timelines, I know I'll never do it.

Thus far, I'm happy with the material.  The web site leaves a little to be desired (I sometimes get a bunch of database errors trying to load the syllabus).

I finished on Nov. 13th. :)

I applied and then when I logged on I decided that I didn't want to take it.  But after looking at my current schedule I have determined that I can easily take the tests (Didn't want to travel to any bases, to far)  But I will be deployed in 2008, So I can easily take the tests on the base.  So, Can anyone tell me what I need to study, what parts in particular. 

Seeing as how our Region Staff College is way farther than I want to drive and takes far long than I'd want to devote to it, my only option if I want to be a Lt. Col. is to take SOS.  However, I'm pretty happy being a Major and wouldn't mind sitting at that rank for a few more years.  I think I need a few more gray hairs before I'd fit in with the other Lt. Cols...

I don't much care when I make Lt Col, but I want to get my Wilson award.  SOS/RSC is the last thing I need for my Garber.

I'm working on scheduling my first exam (28A).  Thus far, the program has been interesting, I'm glad I enrolled.

I was scheduled to sit down with my local reserve assistance officer on the 18th when I found out Thursday that my exam was destroyed, anyone have any tips on how I can take this thing on base?

Call the base.....ask for the CAP liaison Officer.  Each base is mandated to have one!  Other than that, call the Education Office, explain your situation.  They will most likely open up a computer for you to take it on!

Or Call the State Director and explain the situation, and tell him/ her it would be easier for you to just take it on the base.

GOOD LUCK!!

Thanks, I just might call my state director, I've known him for years.  He also probably has the numbers I need.

^NP.  I finished up the SOS last year.  It was beneficial, to say the least. 

When you do go in to take the tests, take your time.  They like to put questions together that resemble something you read, but really are asking a totally different question.  It's tough to explain it.  Just re-read the questions slowly, you will do fine!

Thanks for the tip, it is greatly appreciated.

Capt Medeiros,

Definitely call your SD. He was a HUGE help to me with SOS. Basically, he arranged for my first exam, and the rest I scheduled myself. I took all of mine at the ANG base in Jacksonville. I'm sure you could do yours at MacDill with no problem.

Someone asked what parts to study... Honestly, everything. The "samples of behavior" give you an idea of everything you should know.

I am taking my 28A test this friday, for those who have taken it, can someone tell me how many questions are on the test.  I have been told to study the SOB's and I cant figure out how much information could be pulled from them.  Thanks. 

It seems like there were 50 or so. Some of the exams had more questions than others, but I can't remember any of them having less than 50.

OK thank you, i thought it would be around that amount.  I am having some trouble filling out the SOB's I dont think some of the answers are in the text, if they are they are hiding on me someplace.   Thats why I was wondering about the amount of questions, because some of the answers I am getting are like paragraphs of text, so was just wondering.   

It is really hard to explain, but the questions aren't easy, memorization type stuff. They're more "synthesis" questions, designed to see if you really understand the material. Conceptual, etc. For example, they might give you a paragraph to read, or a scenario, and then have you apply some concept you learned to it.

Ok that makes some sense, thanks that is helps me alot. 

I think you'll find studying for the others easier than this first one, because you'll know the type of questions to expect. At least that was my experience.

^^ Plus, the on-line quiz questions help you see what they're looking for.  But don't just take the quizzes and figure you're good.  Make sure you can answer ALL the SOBs.  (I think they call 'em that for a reason...)

Lol... Im currently enrolled in the USAF Reserve Officer Prep Course.
- I'll call it CAPSOC Lager - identical concept to the -13, but heavier, intended for a OC headed for Maxwell to become a 2nd Lt

Thing is, its longer then the -13, and, if you can believe this: the material is three years OLDER (the return address on the material is Gunter AFS and the questions sheet lists an AF buck Sgt as a point of contact.

In any case Im taking it to get an initiation into the on-base-testing setup

Quote from: Fifinella on April 09, 2008, 10:18:22 PM^^ Plus, the on-line quiz questions help you see what they're looking for.  But don't just take the quizzes and figure you're good.

The quizzes were of mixed value in preparing me for the actual tests.  Some of the core areas have a good distribution of quizzes, and good coverage of the SOBs.  Other core areas, not so much, and I relied a lot more on my notes.

The best advice I can give is to make sure you know how you're going to budget your time before you register, because SOS is a LOT of work.  Also, take good notes on the notetaker pages (the SOBs).  Going through my notes a couple times on the evening before the test helped me.

I'm taking 28E on April 23rd.  My last one!

Color me done with SOS!  Woot! Took my last test Friday.  :) :D ;D

Great job Judy!  Your lucky you didn't have to do it 20 years ago when it took months to complete.

Welcome to the lofty heights! :clap:

Quote from: SAR-EMT1 on April 11, 2008, 06:50:31 AM
Lol... Im currently enrolled in the USAF Reserve Officer Prep Course.
- I'll call it CAPSOC Lager - identical concept to the -13, but heavier, intended for a OC headed for Maxwell to become a 2nd Lt

Thing is, its longer then the -13, and, if you can believe this: the material is three years OLDER (the return address on the material is Gunter AFS and the questions sheet lists an AF buck Sgt as a point of contact.

In any case Im taking it to get an initiation into the on-base-testing setup

I also took it as a sort of 'victory-lap' after SOS: yeah, it was a bit meatier than ECI-13, don't know if if can be sued interchageably, guess its a moot point now anyway.

Congrats, Captain. :) Welcome to the club.

Quote from: sarflyer on May 05, 2008, 12:55:00 PM
Great job Judy!  Your lucky you didn't have to do it 20 years ago when it took months to complete.

Well, I should have done it years ago, but never quite got around to it.  But, due to my current CAP workload, it did take me months to complete - 14 of them, to be exact.  Now I've got about a year to relax before I'm eligible for ACSC.

Is there a fee involved in taking a test at base ed?
- I'll be taking the test for the ROPC  next month. I will take a month off then enroll in SOS

There wasn't when I did it. You MUST call the Base Ed office ahead of time to reserve a seat. Plus, it gives them time to research your elligibility and figure out why this Civil Air Patrol person is scheduling a test. I scheduled mine about two weeks out.

There was no fee when I took it this past fall. Again, I'd say to get in contact with your State Director. He or she can call the testing office for you and make the arrangements, at least for the first exam. After that, I scheduled my own for the last four, when they were already familiar with me.

Quote from: mikeylikey on December 15, 2007, 09:46:40 PM
Call the base.....ask for the CAP liaison Officer.  Each base is mandated to have one!  Other than that, call the Education Office, explain your situation.  They will most likely open up a computer for you to take it on!

Or Call the State Director and explain the situation, and tell him/ her it would be easier for you to just take it on the base.

GOOD LUCK!!

Each base is mandated to have a CAP LO?

The State Director is your friend here.  He/She should set up the initial test with the base, then you can probably do the rest directly.  Do not start calling random people on base by yourself... use the state director.

In my case, my squadron commander is in the Guard unit I was going to use, so he knew who to call and did all the liason work for my first exam.  I E-mailed the testing office directly for the rest of the exams.

sorry for the resurect.

I am trying to enroll but CAPP 8 Says the course number is 00024

50-17 says 00026A

AU says 00028A-E

Anyone know for real?

28.  Go with what AU says.

http://sos.maxwell.af.mil/adl_info.htm

I haven't read through all 8 pages of this thread, and I'm ignorant:
Is SOS required? What's the benefit of taking it?

Not required, it is one of the equivalences of RSC.  Benefit, completing level IV at home, and you get a star on the Garber Ribbon

Thanks! Living on a budget, attending a RSC may be difficult when I get to that point. Doing SOS at home may be right up my alley.

Quote from: dwb on July 23, 2008, 07:54:19 PM
28.  Go with what AU says.

http://sos.maxwell.af.mil/adl_info.htm

So the course number is 00028A?   I'm sorry but I'm just not finding any definitive information, and unfortunately as mentioned above there are 3 different numbers listed, and 2 within CAP.

SOS actually has five courses - 00028A through 00028E. You only sign-up for the first course. You are automatically enrolled in the next when you complete one course.

Ok one more.

Approving Authority? Do I just put N/A and email the thing the Maxwell, or do I need to send it somewhere else first?

Approving authority is your commander.

Quick update.

I applied just as you do for the CAPSOC using the AU form 23.

The course is 00028A

I just listed the wing TCO as my supervisor, and they accepted everything.  I got my confirmation that i'd been accepted at noon, I submitted it around 1AM

I will let you know how long the online access takes to approve.  I submitted the request around 1230

Quote from: Robert Hartigan on January 16, 2007, 06:03:54 PM
I just started down the path of professional military education and wondered if there was anyone else out there doing the same?

OH MY GOD yes, and it sucks.  I'm doing it for the ANG military world and am wishing I had gone in residence.

It's not hard, just really time consuming.  If you don't get into a battle rhythem, time can get away from you quickly (as it did with me!)

Over the past week I have been fighting through every known means to gain access to this course.

I have tried the AFIADL Cust Help site, The Login Help submit a problem, and talked with Ms. Carroll a few times.

NO one seems to be able to tell me how to get to the Non-deers registration/login page, and I'm getting impatient with the responses from AU telling me to go there, but we can't tell you how.

Does anyone know the secret handshake to getting access to online courses, using the Non-deers access?

It sounds like you already did this, but I sent an email to afiadl@custhelp.com, and they had me squared away in less than 24 hrs.  Or try this: Linky (http://afiadl.custhelp.com/cgi-bin/afiadl.cfg/php/enduser/ask.php?p_sid=yITn8Faj&p_accessibility=0&p_sp=cF9zcmNoPSZwX3NvcnRfYnk9JnBfZ3JpZHNvcnQ9JnBfcm93X2NudD0yOTUmcF9wcm9kcz0mcF9jYXRzPSZwX3B2PSZwX2N2PSZwX3NlYXJjaF90eXBlPWFuc3dlcnMuc2VhcmNoX25sJnBfcGFnZT0x)

Fix0red linky - MIKE

I've done that twice, 

They just keep telling me to choose non-deers.  And when I email them back and say that doesn't exist they don't respond.

Hmm.  Make sure you cover buzz words like 0028, SOS, PME, CAP, making it clear that you are NOT taking a CAP course, but an AF PME course as a CAP member.

When I emailed them, they responded with this: An account has been established for you. Your login Id is xxx and the password is xxx.  You can log in at https://au.csd.disa.mil

Here is the text of the ticket I submitted to the AFIADL custhelp site (with contact info redacted).  I also got my user account in less than 24 hours.

QuoteGreetings. I am a member of Civil Air Patrol and was recently enrolled in the Squadron Officer School non-residence course. I would like to setup an AU online user account to access the SOS course materials. My information is as follows:

Name: Daniel W. Brodsky
Course: 00028 (SOS)
Last 4 of SSN: [nnnn]
CAPID: [nnnnnn]
My E-mail: [abc@mail.com]
My commercial phone: (nnn) nnn-nnnn
Supervisor's name: [Squadron CC's name]
Supervisor's E-mail: [Squadron CC's E-mail]

Thank you for your time.

OK, so "that point" came a lot quicker than expected. I sent in my application email this morning. Filling it out was pretty easy. Getting through the steps to send the data to AFIADL took a while longer though. Let's see how this goes.

How are you applying for SOS?  You have to be a Capt?

Have you just not updated your sig?

Well, FWIW, my sig sez Senior Member, but I do wear some variety of rank insignia on my uniforms. It all works out in the end.

touche

Signature updated sir. ;)

Man and I was hoping for an "aw shucks".

I'm not sure how many times I had people try to apply for courses that required a higher grade WIWAPDO

Applied last Wednesday. Still no word as of Monday morning.  :( OK, so there was the weekend.

They seem to have gone completely dark at AU.  I have updated their KB with my question, emailed them, had Jennifer Carrol try to call them... nothing.

I'm hoping they are just on vacation or something like that, cause its getting pretty frustrating.  I've been enrolled now for 3 weeks and I still can't see the course material

Just got a confirmation of enrollment email this afternoon. Also received a note saying they're processing over 200 enrollments a day and please be patient.

I just passed the 5th and final exam on 14 Aug.

RSC wouls have been less hours but I did not have the week to take.

Maj Phil Hirons, Jr.
RIWG DPD

I could get a week for RSC since I'm a teacher, but the cost is prohibitive since I'm a teacher. :P
I've now received two emails and a letter confirming enrollment in SOS. I sent an email today requesting internet access.

I am reading and re-reading 28A (Profession of Arms) - trying to build up enough courage to take the computer-based test at a local base. Any suggestions?

This applies to all 5 exams.

Use the Standards of Behavior (SOB) sheets. Read the questions on the SOB then answer them as you go thru each unit. Take the chapter quizzes as they come up and run thru the entire set multiple times. I always scheduled the exams between 0700 and 0800 so I'd do one more pass thru the quizzes the night before.

The exams are multiple choice. So the same rules I'd tell my cadets when I was a squadron testing officer apply.

1. Answer every question. No answer is always wrong, a guess at least has a chance.

2. One choice can usually be eliminated as just plain wrong.

3. If you come down to 2 answers, go with your first instinct. There is probably a reason you had it.

4. Sometimes a later question gives you an earlier answer.

Maj Phil Hirons, Jr.
RIWG DPD

Quote from: IceNine on August 06, 2008, 10:13:51 PM
How are you applying for SOS?  You have to be a Capt?

Air Force enrollment procedures now let RealAirForce® captains-select enroll in SOS.

Strictly speaking - and there is NO official guidance on this matter - in CAP, a captain-selectee would technically be a 1st Lt who has completed ALL requirements for Level II and is just awaiting time-in-grade for promotion. Final approval would have to come from the unit commander or the promoting authority (group commander or higher) to take the course. To avoid problems, I recommend that one wait until you pin on Captain before enrolling in SOS, as NHQ CAP does not have a way to track selectees to a higher grade on eServices.

Quote from: phirons on August 17, 2008, 09:34:28 PM
This applies to all 5 exams.

Use the Standards of Behavior (SOB) sheets. Read the questions on the SOB then answer them as you go thru each unit. Take the chapter quizzes as they come up and run thru the entire set multiple times. I always scheduled the exams between 0700 and 0800 so I'd do one more pass thru the quizzes the night before.

The exams are multiple choice. So the same rules I'd tell my cadets when I was a squadron testing officer apply.

1. Answer every question. No answer is always wrong, a guess at least has a chance.

2. One choice can usually be eliminated as just plain wrong.

3. If you come down to 2 answers, go with your first instinct. There is probably a reason you had it.

4. Sometimes a later question gives you an earlier answer.

Maj Phil Hirons, Jr.
RIWG DPD

Thanks, Major!

That's what I've been doing - but this course feels so different when compared with other courses that I've taken.

I appreciate your time!

Chris

Quote from: phirons on August 16, 2008, 07:30:33 PM
I just passed the 5th and final exam on 14 Aug.

Congratulations!

Yeah! I just got access today, went through the introduction, and printed the LO/SOB for Prof. of Arms. 14 days from application to online access. I'm on my way.  8)

Quote from: AlphaSigOU on August 17, 2008, 10:23:08 PM

Quote from: IceNine on August 06, 2008, 10:13:51 PM
How are you applying for SOS?  You have to be a Capt?

Air Force enrollment procedures now let RealAirForce® captains-select enroll in SOS.

Strictly speaking - and there is NO official guidance on this matter - in CAP, a captain-selectee would technically be a 1st Lt who has completed ALL requirements for Level II and is just awaiting time-in-grade for promotion. Final approval would have to come from the unit commander or the promoting authority (group commander or higher) to take the course. To avoid problems, I recommend that one wait until you pin on Captain before enrolling in SOS, as NHQ CAP does not have a way to track selectees to a higher grade on eServices.

Strictly speaking... they do track level II completion, which I agree would be the standard for 1LT (P). However, there is guidance from AFIADL, in that they state CAP Capt. I realize they don't deal with CAP much and it wouldn't be difficult for a CAP 1LT to enroll, but there really isn't a need for that.