Senator John McCain claims CAP is Pork Barrel Spending (Again)

[bflynn]

We are still cheaper then the USAF in doing inland SAR.

Doesn't this make the presumtion that inland SAR will be done?  We are not cheaper than the USAF not doing any SAR.

[That Anonymous Guy]

We are still cheaper then the USAF in doing inland SAR.

Doesn't this make the presumtion that inland SAR will be done?  We are not cheaper than the USAF not doing any SAR.

In that case. People get lost then people die. You might be okay with that but I'm not.

[Майор Хаткевич]

We can all simply join the US Ranger Corps. I hear they honor CAP ribbons.

[abdsp51]

I know in CA and Az SAR is handled by the state and the Sheriff's office.  And when I hear SAR I hear go find someone/s and extract if needed,  last time I checked outside of rendering basic first aid our hands were tied.  And let's be honest we don't extract anyone from anywhere.  So it's more of a search and contain aspect than anything.     

[That Anonymous Guy]

We can all simply join the US Ranger Corps. I hear they honor CAP ribbons.

LOL. You know who founded the organization right?

[lordmonar]

We are still cheaper then the USAF in doing inland SAR.

Doesn't this make the presumtion that inland SAR will be done?  We are not cheaper than the USAF not doing any SAR.

Really?  Think how that will go over in the news. 

[That Anonymous Guy]

We are still cheaper then the USAF in doing inland SAR.

Doesn't this make the presumtion that inland SAR will be done?  We are not cheaper than the USAF not doing any SAR.

Really?  Think how that will go over in the news. 

Especially with hikers and outdoorsy folks.

[Eclipse]

The USAF administers the CAP appropriation, what we get is not "USAF" money.  If CAP closed tomorrow, the USAF does't have a bunch "extra" nor are we eating their O&M budget, though we are, demonstrably, saving the USAF serious money.

Clearly the esteemed Senator doesn't understand that.

But since this is all partisan politics aimed at stalling real progress on actual issues, facts aren't likely very useful. When this country gets tired of its elected officials acting like Facebook drama kids, things might actually get done.  Right now it's all just rhetoric aimed at making the other side look bad, with very little ramifications for manufactured "facts".

[bflynn]

In that case. People get lost then people die. You might be okay with that but I'm not.

Why would you say that?  Do you think there is anyone in CAP that wants to let people die?  It's a ridiculous statement.

What I was saying is that all of this starts from the presumption that SAR is needed.  With the new 406 ELTs and especially with the new FAA proposal to ban ELTs that only use 121.5, the need for SAR services of any kind is greatly diminished.  An ELT will either tell the AFRCC Lat/Lon of a downed airplane or nobody will go looking.  Our value as a mission multiplier to the AF goes away if the AF mission changes.  The choice is not between CAP and the AF doing SAR, it's between CAP, Local LE or nobody doing SAR. 

Hence the big shift of ES into Emergency Management.  Which the AF has little use for, so why should the AF spend 15m a year for something they don't need? 

If you want to continue that model, alignment with customers would probably be better served by allocating the money either directly to CAP, to CAP through FEMA and/or to CAP through state EM offices.

There is a bigger question as to whether or not there is a place for CAP in the future.  We certainly want to change and perform an important role, but that role has to have value or nobody is willing to spend any money on it.

[abdsp51]

Hence the big shift of ES into Emergency Management.  Which the AF has little use for, so why should the AF spend 15m a year for something they don't need? 

I so beg to differ the AF is heavily active in Emergency Management, in fact they have their own AFSC 3E9X1 for it.  15m would go along way for training those folks. 

[Майор Хаткевич]

We can all simply join the US Ranger Corps. I hear they honor CAP ribbons.

LOL. You know who founded the organization right?

Why don't you tell me...

[Devil Doc]

http://usrangercorps.us/

The founding members of the USRC are all Honorably Discharged and/or retired US Military veterans who have served in the different branches of the US military services in time of war as well as in peacetime. 

[Майор Хаткевич]

http://usrangercorps.us/

The founding members of the USRC are all Honorably Discharged and/or retired US Military veterans who have served in the different branches of the US military services in time of war as well as in peacetime.

That's not even half a truth...

[That Anonymous Guy]

Basically the man who was the main founder was a former CAP National Commander who awarded himself a questionable Medal of Valor and was then deranked and forced to resign.

[Майор Хаткевич]

Basically the man who was the main founder was a former CAP National Commander who awarded himself a questionable Medal of Valor and was then deranked and forced to resign.

Who and when? 

[Devil Doc]

 Former National Commander Maj. Gen. Tony Pineda? Also Former AZ Wing Commander Col. bill Lynch?

[Devil Doc]

http://www.allmilitary.com/board/viewtopic.php?id=13518

Got it from here.

[The CyBorg is destroyed]

There is a bigger question as to whether or not there is a place for CAP in the future.  We certainly want to change and perform an important role, but that role has to have value or nobody is willing to spend any money on it.

This is a topic/question I have thought a lot about, especially in recent years, and not in the context of John McCain's grandstanding.

Others here have talked heavily about the ES side of things.  I haven't been involved directly with ES for a good number of years, so I'll leave others to that.

I am playing devil's advocate here.

With our other two missions...

CP?  Alright, this may be apples and oranges, but what is there in our Cadet side of things that is not done by AFJROTC, which is directly-supervised, and, I would argue, better respected, by the Air Force?

AE?  This hits me personally as I am heavily involved in AE.  With the advent of the Internet, what can we teach young people, or educators, that isn't available at the click of a mouse?

It's been argued back-and-forth for at least 15 years about how our relationship with the Air Force is.  It may be good at the top levels, but it is really YMMV locally, ranging from a good partnership to indifference to hostility.  We are as much to blame as the Air Force is, because we have had people in the organisation who have wanted to move us away from the Air Force by degrees...some more successful than others.

My experience with Air Force personnel who do have a positive view of CAP, including some LO/SD's, is that they are only interested in us as a recruiting tool.

I am reminded of a line in the Kansas song "Dust In The Wind"..."nothing lasts forever but the earth and sky."  OK, at the rate we're going, the earth and sky may not last all that long, but I think the point is made.

For decades, Britain's Royal Observer Corps was an integral part of the Royal Air Force.  These were hard-working volunteers.  But with the end of the Cold War and the advent of new technology, they found themselves without a raison d'etre and were stood down in 1991.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Royal_Observer_Corps

We have to face the possibility that it may be time for us to stand down.

[Майор Хаткевич]

Former National Commander Maj. Gen. HWSRN? Also Former AZ Wing Commander Col. bill Lynch?

Fixed.

[spaatzmom]

http://usrangercorps.us/

The founding members of the USRC are all Honorably Discharged and/or retired US Military veterans who have served in the different branches of the US military services in time of war as well as in peacetime.

In one person, HWSRN,  who was supposed to be a founder, that is really funny.