Semi-formal and insignia

[Abby.L]

So, this was more of a hypothetical question, but; If a cadet were to wear the semi-formal uniform(Service jacket without nametape, white shirt, and bow-tie with old style), would there be anything against that cadet wearing applicable insignia on, say, an aviator shirt? For example, as on the jacket, we would only wear rank and ribbons. Could that transfer over to the shirt? I'd imagine so, but we all know the story on 39-1....  :angel:

[lordmonar]

No.

There is no "service" uniform with the Semi-Formal uniform.

If you take off the jacket...you are "out of uniform" no matter what insigina you may have on under it.

Having said that.....it is not uncommon or even outside accepted practices to remove the coat when the formal portion of the event is over and the dancing begins.

[Eclipse]

So, this was more of a hypothetical question, but; If a cadet were to wear the semi-formal uniform(Service jacket without nametape, white shirt, and bow-tie with old style), would there be anything against that cadet wearing applicable insignia on, say, an aviator shirt?

Yes.  Neither cadets, or seniors, are authorized to wear an aviator shirt with blue pants.

[Abby.L]

So, this was more of a hypothetical question, but; If a cadet were to wear the semi-formal uniform(Service jacket without nametape, white shirt, and bow-tie with old style), would there be anything against that cadet wearing applicable insignia on, say, an aviator shirt?

Yes.  Neither cadets, or seniors, are authorized to wear an aviator shirt with blue pants.

So, despite it being a part of a uniform combination, it would be out of regs? I wouldn't think so. 
And I mean, seriously, how would me taking off the jacket for say, comfort, be a problem?

[Eclipse]

Which question are you asking?

Wearing an "aviator shirt" with blue pants is not authorized for anyone, so that's a "no".

Removing a service coat and exposing a blue shirt without a nameplate and grade insignia is prohibited by regulations,
but not uncommon because many members, especially cadets, only purchase one of everything.

So if you're working at a meeting, mission, or other CAP function, you should not be walking around in a "blank" blue shirt,
however if you are at something like a banquet, you are not likely to get any grief for the same thing while dancing, but
that doesn't mean it's "OK" to then wander around the hotel, etc., out of uniform, or wear it that way any other time
for convenience.

[Abby.L]

So what I'm asking is, as a part of the semi-formal, would it be fine to have the same insignia as you would have on the jacket, on the shirt? Similar to what you could do with service dress, which is where you would have all the same rank and insignia on the shirt underneath, so that if you do take off the jacket, you'd still be within regs. Since semi-formal has the same insignia as service dress, but you just take off the nametape, would it be acceptable to do the same with the white shirt as is required for semi-formal?

[abdsp51]

Nothing goes on the white shirt for semi-formal except maybe a set of cuff-links.

[Eclipse]

OK, and sorry, the semi-formal is worn with a white shirt.

No, you don't need insignia on the semi-formal shirt, same for the seniors.  By design it is a different uniform, both worn with a
bow tie vs. a standard tie.

So there's no reason or authorization for insignia on the white shirt.

[Abby.L]

Citations? 
And I mean, if I take off the jacket, I'd kinda find it nerve wracking for myself to not have the accountraments as I would on the AF blues shirt. There's nothing in 39-1 that says you can, yet there's nothing that says you can. Similar to with service dress, as it says nothing about the wear of insignia on the shirt underneath. 

[Eclipse]

You are wearing a uniform combination that does not require insignia on the shirt.  Period. 

This is no different then the mess dress which has nothing on it, either.

[abdsp51]

Really you want to toss out the cite line ok. 

CAPM39-1 Figure 2-8 and Table 2-1, and

AFI36-2903 4.6.2.

White Long-Sleeve Shirt. The white long-sleeve shirt will be plain, knit or woven, commercial type with a short or medium point collar, with button or French cuffs. Military creases are not authorized. A V-neck or athletic style, white undershirt will be worn under the shirt. Both shirts will be tucked into the trousers

The only items authorized on the shirt with this combination are cuff links or a tie tack/bar.

If you plan to take off a service coat then you need to have the min necessities on it as to be in compliance. 

[Eclipse]

How do you wear a tie tac with a bow tie?

[abdsp51]

Depending on the coat worn will depend on what is worn bow tie or regular tie.  On AD we only wear the standard tie for semi formal unless we are in mess dress.   For cadets the coat will dictate either or, if the standard tie is worn then the tack/bar is optional.

[Eclipse]

Hmm...been a while since I looked.  I forgot that the new-style just wears a standard tie.  That's not very "semi-formal-ish".  I doubt in
the lighting of most banquets anyone would even notice.

[abdsp51]

No worries, just saying that with cadets it's either or.  On AD is semiformal or mess dress and there is no options as far as neck wear.   

[PHall]

No worries, just saying that with cadets it's either or.  On AD is semiformal or mess dress and there is no options as far as neck wear.

Just remember, the Air Force only wears the "new" style coat.
With the "new" style coat you wear a tie when wearing the Semi-formal Uniform.
With the "old" style coat you wear the Bow Tie when wearing the Semi-formal uniform.
Cadets are still authorized to wear the old" style Service Dress Uniform.

[abdsp51]

No worries, just saying that with cadets it's either or.  On AD is semiformal or mess dress and there is no options as far as neck wear.

Just remember, the Air Force only wears the "new" style coat.
With the "new" style coat you wear a tie when wearing the Semi-formal Uniform.
With the "old" style coat you wear the Bow Tie when wearing the Semi-formal uniform.
Cadets are still authorized to wear the old" style Service Dress Uniform.

Tracking on that thats why for a cite both CAPM and AFI was addressed and if you will see in a previous post I addressed the differences as well.

[lordmonar]

Citations? 
And I mean, if I take off the jacket, I'd kinda find it nerve wracking for myself to not have the accountraments as I would on the AF blues shirt. There's nothing in 39-1 that says you can, yet there's nothing that says you can. Similar to with service dress, as it says nothing about the wear of insignia on the shirt underneath. 

If the UOD is Semi formal or mess dress.....YOU CAN'T TAKE OFF THE COAT.

Like I said before.....once the coat comes off you are out of uniform.
Now....also like I said...once the formal portion of the event is over....the USAF and CAP often gets a little loose with the uniform rules and you can take off your coat.  When that happend you don't need to worry about not having your acoutermants on your shirt.

Just don't do it....you will look like a goob!

[LGM30GMCC]

This is why 'Party Shirts' were invented. They are usually the front part of the formal dress shirt (sometimes the back as well,depending) with the correct cuffs and collar. Much of the rest of the fabric is replaced with a bright pattern suited to the individual's taste. When the jacket is on (formal event happening) it is indistinguishable from any other mess dress. When the jacket comes off...it's time to PARTY!

As for rank/whatever on the regular dress shirt. Yeah...don't do that. You would be wrong. Flat out in all ways wrong. There is no uniform that is dress shirt with service dress pants. The difference with service dress is there are the various 'stages' that it can go from 'Blues' to 'Service Dress'.

The Semi-formal uniform was invented because a mess-dress uniform costs upwards of $400+ dollars or more. For an AB-A1C that is pushing 25% of one month's pay. Ouch. For an O-1 it's about 14%. Plus the cost of alterations for the E1-E4ish who are going to be replacing stripes. Officer insignia runs nearly $50 a set for mess dress.

So the Semi-formal allows for folks who may not have the kind of finances laying around for mess dress to still be able to attend events like awards banquets and the Air Force Ball without being prohibitively expensive. Officers are expected/required to own a set of mess dress.

Also think...how would cadet officers wear insignia on a non-aviator shirt? There would be no place to put them. Long story short...wear your accomplishments on your service jacket for the semi-formal. When the jacket comes off...no one cares anymore, it's about the dancing/having fun. Just keep being respectful, but otherwise...forgetaboutit.

[Nolan Teel]

How do you wear a tie tac with a bow tie?

Carefully with style and grace?