Quote from: DogCollar on April 26, 2010, 03:57:33 PM
As I read the Generals letter, she is asking us to utilize Vanguard for our CAP needs, because they turn around and give a portion back for certain, select CAP training centers.  Yet, there are certain things we are pretty much forced to get from other sources, such as AAFES  MCSS.  Yet, AAFES MCSS doesn't have on-line purchasing available for CAP members, nor does AAFES MCSS return a percentage of that expenditure to CAP.

Just seems to me that the exclusive supplier to CAP should have EVERYTHING a CAP member might need.

Call AAFES and order over the phone....

If Vanguard were to sell MCSS items they would mark them up.....so there is your trade off.  Convience of one stop shopping vice Vanguards mark up.

The Big V hates having to deal with those uniform items they do sell. But .. they had to do that or they couldn't be the exclusive supplier. Only those items they have no way to assert control over, are what is available elsewhere.

I only compared Auxiliary vs CAP in terms of contractual agreements for uniform items I could say this is unheard of or absurd but if its normal practice then none of us should be surprised this is happening if the other groups like CGAux, Young Marines, etc have contract agreements with certain vendors to only sell those items.

Why didn't they put it to a stop when the hock started doing it? Or did they just let the hock do what they were doing so they could laugh and say "investment in suit becoming fruitious"? (if you want to sue someone for some kind of monetary loss and breach of contracts why not wait a couple years or so then slam them around?).

I guess we'll see more of this in corporate America, you know technically you aren't required to wear a uniform specifically at CAP unless you are doing any specific activities such as AFAM, Cadet Programs, community activities (some require uniforms), going on DoD installations/bases.  But to attend a meeting or social event there isn't anything that requires uniform as far as I can tell (I don't show up in uniform half the time).

Quote from: mynetdude on April 26, 2010, 05:31:42 PM
I guess we'll see more of this in corporate America, you know technically you aren't required to wear a uniform specifically at CAP unless you are doing any specific activities such as AFAM, Cadet Programs, community activities (some require uniforms), going on DoD installations/bases.  But to attend a meeting or social event there isn't anything that requires uniform as far as I can tell (I don't show up in uniform half the time).

Flat out wrong. 

You are required to wear a uniform while "engaged in any normal duties" as a CAP member, that especially include attending meetings.  You may want to brush up on 39-1, Table 1-1. 

Quote from: A.Member on April 26, 2010, 06:34:18 PM

Quote from: mynetdude on April 26, 2010, 05:31:42 PM
I guess we'll see more of this in corporate America, you know technically you aren't required to wear a uniform specifically at CAP unless you are doing any specific activities such as AFAM, Cadet Programs, community activities (some require uniforms), going on DoD installations/bases.  But to attend a meeting or social event there isn't anything that requires uniform as far as I can tell (I don't show up in uniform half the time).

Flat out wrong. 

You are required to wear a uniform while "engaged in any normal duties" as a CAP member, that especially include attending meetings.  You may want to brush up on 39-1, Table 1-1.

Wanna bet? Since you cited I'll quote (bold my emphasis)

Quoteall CAP personnel touring Washington DC, as part of a CAP activity or
conducting CAP business in the metropolitan area, will wear the service
uniform, civilian clothing, or the blazer and slacks or skirt combination,
and will be properly groomed. Senior members visiting the White
House, Capitol, State Department, or comparable buildings in uniform
will wear the service uniform with service coat (service dress uniform)
or blazer uniform. Cadets are not required to wear the service coat. In no
case will BDUs, flight suits, or utility uniforms be worn.

^ one example of wearing civvies

QuoteUnit commanders can make exceptions for travel in small commuter aircraft that involve short
flights in areas of the country where civilians wear informal clothing because of weather or cramped
conditions on the commuter aircraft.

^it doesn't say wearing civvies, just informal so I would take that to being civvies as an option

That's all of table 1-1 it doesn't say I must wear uniform AT squadron meetings

So your argument is that a squadron meeting isn't a CAP activity?  Ok.

Quote from: mynetdude on April 26, 2010, 07:58:04 PM

Quote from: A.Member on April 26, 2010, 06:34:18 PM

Quote from: mynetdude on April 26, 2010, 05:31:42 PM
I guess we'll see more of this in corporate America, you know technically you aren't required to wear a uniform specifically at CAP unless you are doing any specific activities such as AFAM, Cadet Programs, community activities (some require uniforms), going on DoD installations/bases.  But to attend a meeting or social event there isn't anything that requires uniform as far as I can tell (I don't show up in uniform half the time).

Flat out wrong. 

You are required to wear a uniform while "engaged in any normal duties" as a CAP member, that especially include attending meetings.  You may want to brush up on 39-1, Table 1-1.

Wanna bet? 

Sure.  Are you prepared to lose?

Like I said, you need to familiarize yourself with the entire 39-1 Table 1-1, not just one line.

Try the sixth line in the table that says Members will wear a uniform:

Quote from: CAPM 39-1, Table 1-1when engaged in normal duties as a CAP member or attending local, wing/region, or national CAP functions (see note 1).

Quote from: DogCollar on April 26, 2010, 03:57:33 PM

Quote from: MIKE on April 26, 2010, 02:58:46 PM
Because you are supposed to get those through AAFES MCSS.  What they do sell is out of convenience for your average CAP member.  The CAP Bookstore used to sell mess dress, the Wooly Pully and the lightweight blue jacket though.

I understand.  However....

As I read the Generals letter, she is asking us to utilize Vanguard for our CAP needs, because they turn around and give a portion back for certain, select CAP training centers.  Yet, there are certain things we are pretty much forced to get from other sources, such as AAFES  MCSS.  Yet, AAFES MCSS doesn't have on-line purchasing available for CAP members, nor does AAFES MCSS return a percentage of that expenditure to CAP.

Just seems to me that the exclusive supplier to CAP should have EVERYTHING a CAP member might need.

I have not seen the alleged letter come through to us in the SDWG yet.  And our Wing Commander is good at keeping us in the loop on things like this.  Does anyone have a scan of the letter that they could post?

Quote from: tdepp on April 26, 2010, 09:15:45 PMI have not seen the alleged letter come through to us in the SDWG yet.  And our Wing Commander is good at keeping us in the loop on things like this.  Does anyone have a scan of the letter that they could post?

It's an attachment in the original post.

Quote from: RiverAux on April 26, 2010, 08:09:16 PM
So your argument is that a squadron meeting isn't a CAP activity?  Ok.

Never said that

IF regulations didn't stipulate uniform wear is required that does not make a sdn activity not a CAP acivity.

Quote from: A.Member on April 26, 2010, 08:19:17 PM

Quote from: mynetdude on April 26, 2010, 07:58:04 PM

Quote from: A.Member on April 26, 2010, 06:34:18 PM

Quote from: mynetdude on April 26, 2010, 05:31:42 PM
I guess we'll see more of this in corporate America, you know technically you aren't required to wear a uniform specifically at CAP unless you are doing any specific activities such as AFAM, Cadet Programs, community activities (some require uniforms), going on DoD installations/bases.  But to attend a meeting or social event there isn't anything that requires uniform as far as I can tell (I don't show up in uniform half the time).

Flat out wrong. 

You are required to wear a uniform while "engaged in any normal duties" as a CAP member, that especially include attending meetings.  You may want to brush up on 39-1, Table 1-1.

Wanna bet? 

Sure.  Are you prepared to lose?

Like I said, you need to familiarize yourself with the entire 39-1 Table 1-1, not just one line.

Try the sixth line in the table that says Members will wear a uniform:

Quote from: CAPM 39-1, Table 1-1when engaged in normal duties as a CAP member or attending local, wing/region, or national CAP functions (see note 1).

I always lose, what's new

Quote from: bte on April 26, 2010, 09:27:22 PM

Quote from: tdepp on April 26, 2010, 09:15:45 PMI have not seen the alleged letter come through to us in the SDWG yet.  And our Wing Commander is good at keeping us in the loop on things like this.  Does anyone have a scan of the letter that they could post?

It's an attachment in the original post.

BTE:
Thanks. I suffer from the dreaded disease of CRS--Can't Remember Ship! 

Quote from: mynetdude on April 26, 2010, 10:19:41 PM

Quote from: A.Member on April 26, 2010, 08:19:17 PM

Quote from: mynetdude on April 26, 2010, 07:58:04 PM

Quote from: A.Member on April 26, 2010, 06:34:18 PM

Quote from: mynetdude on April 26, 2010, 05:31:42 PM
I guess we'll see more of this in corporate America, you know technically you aren't required to wear a uniform specifically at CAP unless you are doing any specific activities such as AFAM, Cadet Programs, community activities (some require uniforms), going on DoD installations/bases.  But to attend a meeting or social event there isn't anything that requires uniform as far as I can tell (I don't show up in uniform half the time).

Flat out wrong. 

You are required to wear a uniform while "engaged in any normal duties" as a CAP member, that especially include attending meetings.  You may want to brush up on 39-1, Table 1-1.

Wanna bet? 

Sure.  Are you prepared to lose?

Like I said, you need to familiarize yourself with the entire 39-1 Table 1-1, not just one line.

Try the sixth line in the table that says Members will wear a uniform:

Quote from: CAPM 39-1, Table 1-1when engaged in normal duties as a CAP member or attending local, wing/region, or national CAP functions (see note 1).

I always lose, what's new

Hey, hey, hey there kids! Remember, CAPTalk is an exhibition and not a competition. Remember, no wagering.* 

*From David Letterman, when he used to be funny.

Quote from: tdepp on April 27, 2010, 01:32:20 AM

Quote from: mynetdude on April 26, 2010, 10:19:41 PM

Quote from: A.Member on April 26, 2010, 08:19:17 PM

Quote from: mynetdude on April 26, 2010, 07:58:04 PM

Quote from: A.Member on April 26, 2010, 06:34:18 PM

Quote from: mynetdude on April 26, 2010, 05:31:42 PM
I guess we'll see more of this in corporate America, you know technically you aren't required to wear a uniform specifically at CAP unless you are doing any specific activities such as AFAM, Cadet Programs, community activities (some require uniforms), going on DoD installations/bases.  But to attend a meeting or social event there isn't anything that requires uniform as far as I can tell (I don't show up in uniform half the time).

Flat out wrong. 

You are required to wear a uniform while "engaged in any normal duties" as a CAP member, that especially include attending meetings.  You may want to brush up on 39-1, Table 1-1.

Wanna bet? 

Sure.  Are you prepared to lose?

Like I said, you need to familiarize yourself with the entire 39-1 Table 1-1, not just one line.

Try the sixth line in the table that says Members will wear a uniform:

Quote from: CAPM 39-1, Table 1-1when engaged in normal duties as a CAP member or attending local, wing/region, or national CAP functions (see note 1).

I always lose, what's new

Hey, hey, hey there kids! Remember, CAPTalk is an exhibition and not a competition. Remember, no wagering.* 

*From David Letterman, when he used to be funny.

Actually he still would have won even if I hadn't betted Somehow when I clicked on Chapter 1 T1-1 I missed the first section, I got the last half of it.

He is right all along, I still lose nothing new though . I certainly will owe him one when I run into him, ok my IOUs have started already

Heh, someones buying Google Ad Words .. ;-)

(seen at the top of Google Aps Mail)

"Civil Air Patrol Store - www.vanguardmil.com - Civil Air Patrol Uniforms, Insignia Leisure Wear and much more!"

I wonder if thats connected, time wise coincidental.. I can't recall seeing that one before. Usually it's SAR gear, Gridded sectionals or pilot stuff.

^^^I've seen these ads for months.  Now I suppose Vanguard isn't supposed to advertise either. 

Oh, no, not at all.  I just hadn't seen that one come into the rotation, and thought it was coincidental based on the recent release of that letter from NHQ since this whole Big V thing is a rather .. hot topic. ;-)

I mean, they don't generally issue letters about everything.

One day I ordered a Yeager ribbon, and nothing else. Almost three weeks later they shipped my Yeager ribbon, a week later I got my ribbon.

One month is an awfully long time to get an 85 cent ribbon.

One day I ordered a ribbon, it shipped the next day and arrived three days later.

Anecdotal evidence is all good....but to what point?

Three weeks to get a ribbon shipped.....did you call Vanguard to check the status?  Was there a problem (maybe temporarily out of stock?).

No one here can really answer for Vanguard on specific situations.

Bottom line is that unless you know of another source you got to suck it up.....complain to VG when you get poor service and poor merchandise and move on.

Quotethanks for the info on contacting NHQ. i ordered a regimental tie 2 March - Vanguard is saying they should have it by the end of April!

I just checked again on the tie - they replied that their supplier had pushed delivery back to 90 days. I don't have a reply back yet whether that is 90 days from original order date of 2 March or 90 days from now!