I've heard around that Class B's or Aviator Shirt uniforms are the only allowable uniforms for recruiting activities. I can't seem to find anything to that effect in the regs. Has anyone else heard anything along those lines? Citation?
Anything the PIC or CC designates is appropriate. There is no standard.
In fact, it's not unusual to specifically incorporate members in multiple styles as examples.
Quote from: Eclipse on July 30, 2019, 05:51:52 PM
In fact, it's not unusual to specifically incorporate members in multiple styles as examples.
That's what makes the most sense to me, too!
The uniform should be dictated by the activity and the environment.
If you're setting up a booth at an air show where you have a CAP aircraft parked, and anticipate giving tours of the aircraft, don't be in Blues/Whites. Wear a flight suit or utility.
If you're at an aviation fair, Class Bs would be appropriate.
If you're going to be doing demonstrations of ELTs/SAR equipment, utilities.
What you're wearing shouldn't change just because you're recruiting. Whatever physical activity you intend to conduct and the location you're at should drive what you're wearing. Regardless, if your conduct is professional and your physical appearance is tidy/groomed, then you'll be viewed as professional no matter what uniform you have on.
Misconception: Blues are more professional, therefore we wear them around the public.
Actuality: If Blues were more professional, we'd want to wear them all the time. But equal professionalism may/should be maintained in all uniform combinations.
Nothing annoys me more greatly than seeing an event where everybody is in every single different uniform.
What we see: "We're showing off all our uniforms!"
What parents see: "Holy smokes, this looks expensive."
I'd rather an event where everybody was in the very same uniform (ie. Class B blues, no tie, flight cap, or BDU/ABU, depending on the activity and conditions) than this guy in BDUs, this dude in a flight suit, this guy wearing wheel hat with a tie, this woman here in long sleeves...
We have our town's National Night Out coming up next week. For years we did it in blues. But its August. And its hot. And its in the local park. And then, the National Guard started flying a Blackhawk into the ball diamond. Now we're covered with ball diamond dust.
Last year "OK, guys BDU/ABUs it is." Much better.
Even the ARNG recruiters were looking at us like "Class B? Are you guys nuts?"
It is far better for everybody to look the part than to look like EVERY part.
Corporate uniforms are mandatory for SMs (and USAF style are forbidden for SMs) when doing fundraising.
Quote from: NIN on July 30, 2019, 07:08:47 PM
It is far better for everybody to look the part than to look like EVERY part.
Which part?
The average unit with the average members is never going to have everyone in the same duds.
BTW - CAP >is< expensive.
Quote from: OldGuy on July 30, 2019, 07:09:09 PM
Corporate uniforms are mandatory for SMs (and USAF style are forbidden for SMs) when doing fundraising.
The thread is about recruiting, not fundraising, sir. No proscription of USAF style uniforms for recruiting. While the two functions are often combined at events, they are not one and the same.
We have a large event with the Collings Foundation Wings of Freedom tour every year. We keep our recruiting and fundraising efforts physically separated during this event. Recruiting is manned by cadets and seniors in short sleeve service blues and generally by a pilot or aircrew member in a flight suit if we have a plane on static display. The fundraising booth is manned by cadets in ABU/BDU with parents in civilian clothes assisting and supervising. The rest of us are in ABU/BDU, working the various duties of the event and staying away from the fundraising area as much as possible. As long as the seniors in USAF style uniforms aren't engaged in the fundraising activities, it has never been an issue. Including when our wing king has attended.
NIN, you forgot to mention the dogs and toddlers with ice cream at National Night Out.
Quote from: HandsomeWalt_USMC on July 30, 2019, 07:27:17 PM
The thread is about recruiting, not fundraising, sir. No proscription of USAF style uniforms for recruiting. While the two functions are often combined at events, they are not one and the same.
You are correct. My point was that the only time I know of when a uniform is prescribed is the fundraising function. Beyond that, the OIC / IC / CC decides.
Quote from: xyzzy on July 30, 2019, 07:54:50 PM
NIN, you forgot to mention the dogs and toddlers with ice cream at National Night Out.
I have tried to forget.
NNO this year is the night before I leave for Baltimore. My whites & greys and blues will be hung at home.
Quote from: Eclipse on July 30, 2019, 07:17:08 PM
Quote from: NIN on July 30, 2019, 07:08:47 PM
It is far better for everybody to look the part than to look like EVERY part.
Which part?
The average unit with the average members is never going to have everyone in the same duds.
BTW - CAP >is< expensive.
Is it really that hard though?
The minimum basic uniform is basically class B blues or the equivalent aviator shirt uniform. Cadets get that uniform mostly for free. So really zero excuse there, if we're talking about having the minimum basic service uniform.
honestly if you have all of your seniors wandering around in the polo uniform nobody is really going to know the difference. However, that is not the minimum uniform.
Even if you do it by category: service or utility. No biggie.
But when I see a recruiting event where every single person is in a different uniform combination, I cringe. It looks like a costume party. Terrible optics.
How hard is it to be uniform?
Quote from: Eclipse on July 30, 2019, 07:17:08 PM
Quote from: NIN on July 30, 2019, 07:08:47 PM
It is far better for everybody to look the part than to look like EVERY part.
Which part?
The average unit with the average members is never going to have everyone in the same duds.
BTW - CAP >is< expensive.
Since members are required to maintain a "minimum basic uniform", and there are only two minimum basic uniforms (blues or aviator shirt), it shouldn't be too difficult to get everyone into the same basic duds.
Quote from: CAPM 39-1
1.2. Wear of the CAP Uniform.
1.2.1. Individual members will obtain and maintain for wear either of the minimum basic uniforms described here. These combinations meet the requirements of most CAP events. A commander may require cadets to wear other optional uniform items only if the purchase is voluntary (such as requiring a specific uniform for participation in a National Cadet Special Activity) or if the uniform is supplied without expense to the cadet.
1.2.1.1. Minimum USAF-style Uniform: The minimum basic USAF-style uniform is the Blue Service Uniform (Class B) with short sleeve shirt (male) or blouse (female) as appropriate. Cadets authorized to wear the USAF-style uniform are required to maintain this uniform.
1.2.1.2. Minimum Corporate-style Uniform: The minimum basic CAP Corporate-style uniform is the Aviator Shirt Uniform with short sleeve shirt or blouse as appropriate. Cadets aged 18 and older who meet weight standards for wear of the USAF-style uniform must maintain the USAF-style Class B uniform as noted in the previous paragraph.
NIN beat me... ::)
Quote from: NIN on July 30, 2019, 10:05:19 PM
How hard is it to be uniform?
Quote from: baronet68 on July 30, 2019, 10:05:36 PM
Since members are required to maintain a "minimum basic uniform", and there are only two minimum basic uniforms (blues or aviator shirt), it shouldn't be too difficult to get everyone into the same basic duds.
[reply deleted by moderator -NIN]
Can be helpful to have at least one like me at these events. The "casual guy" there in the polo. The approachable one with a big happy smile, who isn't standing there at attention in the dress blues with his game face on. There are some folks who are interested in the missions, and would like to hear more about it, but might not want to talk to someone dressed up like an Air Force Recruiter. Potential new members come in all types. :)
You can also be casual in Air Force Blues sometimes, you do not have to be at attention all the time, and you can do this without a game face...
Quote from: etodd on July 31, 2019, 02:40:32 PM
Can be helpful to have at least one like me at these events. The "casual guy" there in the polo. The approachable one with a big happy smile, who isn't standing there at attention in the dress blues with his game face on. There are some folks who are interested in the missions, and would like to hear more about it, but might not want to talk to someone dressed up like an Air Force Recruiter. Potential new members come in all types. :)
Are you clear
what organizaiton you're a member of?
The "missions" are not separate from the other parts. CAP doesn't need members who are going to
treat the organization like a cafeteria menu. It's a constant talking point that members who do cause issues
with both retention and execution.
It's one of the reasons Bender is so amused up there.
Quote from: etodd on July 31, 2019, 02:40:32 PM
Can be helpful to have at least one like me at these events. The "casual guy" there in the polo. The approachable one with a big happy smile, who isn't standing there at attention in the dress blues with his game face on. There are some folks who are interested in the missions, and would like to hear more about it, but might not want to talk to someone dressed up like an Air Force Recruiter. Potential new members come in all types. :)
What Luis and Eclipse said. Quite frankly, if your attitude is indicative of what the casual guy in the polo is going to attract, I would just assume not have you there.
The pilot's club types that only want to fly and will be snide and scornful toward the other aspects of the organization are potential members I can do without. I'm all about hacking the mish, but part of being in this organization is putting up with the military aspects as well. If you aren't willing to accept that, get the hell out of here and go find another place to hang out.
Someone who openly, arguably proudly, states that they've never taken their minimum basic uniform out of the packaging is someone I don't want in my unit or around my cadets. Many of the flying club types need to learn when to shut their mouths and just salute and execute. We are the Auxiliary of the United States Air Force and should conduct ourselves accordingly.
Quote from: HandsomeWalt_USMC on July 31, 2019, 04:02:52 PM
If you aren't willing to accept that, get the hell out of here and go find another place to hang out.
I think what you fail to account for is that "acceptance" is a spectrum. There are some members for whom the military aspects of CAP are actually a draw, some who tolerate them, and some that will be driven away by them. I find myself on the "tolerates" side of the bell curve, about one standard deviation from the mean. Drill, ceremony, and uniform wear were actually a barrier to attempts to recruit me in the past.
I think etodd has a point: having someone there in the polo combination (or, to a lesser extent, utilities), shows that while we are a paramilitary organisation, that's not ALL we're about. When called upon, we roll up our sleeves and accomplish the mission. That can help draw in folks like me who are "on the fence" about the military aspects.
Also, in my year of membership in CAP, with regular attendance at meetings, trainings and missions, I've worn my Minimum Basic Uniform exactly twice. Maybe FLWG is just uber-casual, but UOD is most often polo or utilities. I don't see how that makes me less worthwhile of a member than someone who puts it on for every function....
It's not what members wear on their bodies that is the primary issue, it's what they wear on their sleeve that
causes problems.
Acceptance is absolutely a spectrum, and I have no qualms with someone who tolerates the military aspects at all. Like I said, salute and execute.
Where I take issue is the members who thumb their nose and wisecrack about the military aspects while at the same time treating the organization as some sort of flying or social club. I'm not saying that we should all be in blues or grey/white all the time. I'm saying that when it's time to wear them, shut up and do so.
I'm much happier in BDUs or a bag than I am in blues, but when the UOD is a service uniform, I show up in blues, looking as squared away as possible. If the UOD is utilities, then by all means show up in the polo, BDU, ABU, what have you.
The major issue here is compliance with appropriate orders. How can I trust a member to complete a complicated mission set if I can't trust them to follow simple instructions?
That'll do it.
~9907