BDU

[Matt]

On the subject of BDU's...I was under the impression that since the Air Force recinded the requirement  that BDUs must be starched and ironed, that CAP had followed suit...is this right, Sir?

1.3.1.3. Uniforms will be neat, clean, pressed, buttoned, and properly maintained.

The Air Force (as a whole) has never had a requirement to starch the BDUs.  So...there was nothing to rescind. 

Or perhaps I don't know much about Air Force uniforms...

I have a feeling the reason that the AF has said nothing about starching is because if personnel read the tags is specifies: Do Not Starch. 

Not that I have anything directly against starch, I used it for about my first 18 months, but, after while, not only does the cost and time add up, but so does the build up on the iron...  Plus, if one irons their uniform weekly, it alleviates the need for starch.

[MIKE]

I'm anti-starch and I'm against commanders requiring it of their people.  To me it does more harm than good in that it accelerates wear, fading and inhibits performance of the fabric and/or is used to supplement poor quality uniforms... Buy EHWBDUs instead of 100% cotton knock offs and press/iron them once and a while and you'll look fine.

The not to distant future:  ABUs... Pull them out of the dryer, put 'em on (still warm), pull on no-shine desert boots and go... Yeah! 

[shorning]

I have a feeling the reason that the AF has said nothing about starching is because if personnel read the tags is specifies: Do Not Starch. 

Actually, that's not the reason at all.  It's about establishing minimum acceptable standards.

My point is there hasn't been any AF-wide requirement to starch BDUs.  Yes, a lot (most?) people do, but it certainly isn't required.  Likewise, there was no  policy to rescind.

As been mentioned here and elsewhere, when the AF transitions to the ABU there will no longer be a need for starching.  Just pull it out of the dryer and hang it up right away.  Just like a flightsuit.  Of course, it's only a matter of time until some chucklehead starches it, someone decides it looks "good", and it become a common practice.

[shorning]

I'm anti-starch and I'm against commanders requiring it of their people.  To me it does more harm than good in that it accelerates wear, fading and inhibits performance of the fabric and/or is used to supplement poor quality uniforms... Buy EHWBDUs instead of 100% cotton knock offs and press/iron them once and a while and you'll look fine.

I guess having worn BDUs on a daily basis for a good bit of my career, I have a slightly different perspective. 

I'm not against starching uniforms.  I think "light starch" can help make your uniforms more presentable.  Although I do think heavy starch in uniforms is a bit of overkill (and silly).  Personally, even the "light" starch from the cleaners is too much.

Do I require my folks to starch their uniforms?  No.  But I do expect them to meet the AF standards:  neat, clean, pressed, buttoned, and properly maintained.  As a member of the Profession of Arms, there is nothing wrong with having a little pride in wearing the uniform.  Wearing it properly, and proudly, not only shows respect for yourself and the uniform, but it also shows respect for the thousands that wore the uniform before you.

[Psicorp]

I'm anti-starch and I'm against commanders requiring it of their people.  To me it does more harm than good in that it accelerates wear, fading and inhibits performance of the fabric and/or is used to supplement poor quality uniforms... Buy EHWBDUs instead of 100% cotton knock offs and press/iron them once and a while and you'll look fine.

I guess having worn BDUs on a daily basis for a good bit of my career, I have a slightly different perspective. 

I'm not against starching uniforms.  I think "light starch" can help make your uniforms more presentable.  Although I do think heavy starch in uniforms is a bit of overkill (and silly).  Personally, even the "light" starch from the cleaners is too much.

Do I require my folks to starch their uniforms?  No.  But I do expect them to meet the AF standards:  neat, clean, pressed, buttoned, and properly maintained.  As a member of the Profession of Arms, there is nothing wrong with having a little pride in wearing the uniform.  Wearing it properly, and proudly, not only shows respect for yourself and the uniform, but it also shows respect for the thousands that wore the uniform before you.

My father was AD A.F. when they switched to BDUs.  I recall vividly him standing over the iron, making sure they were starched and pressed "just so", listening to him complain that it didn't make sense that he had to starch and press a "battle dress" uniform.  A few years later he told me that the requirement (at least for the base he was assigned) was that while they did have to be pressed (no wringles and pockets flat), the need for starch was done away with.  A much more sensible approach and one I totally agree with.  The blues shirt is still a different story, starch just seems to make it look better.   

[shorning]

I think the confusion here comes from what the Air Force policy is/was and what the common practice or expectation is.  Even today the Air Force doesn't require BDUs to be starched however it's widely accepted that they will be.  And while that may be fairly commonplace, it's not a standard we (AF supervisors as well as CAP leaders) can enforce.  Out mission it to enforce the standards.  Not our own personal standards.  As I tell my new airmen, my personal standards are high, but I don't expect them to meet those standards.  Certainly the can if they wish, but I'll enforce the AF-wide (or in this case CAP-wide) standards.

[CAP006]

In my opinion 50/50 nylon is how BDU's should be made.                               
COTTEN SUCKES!!!!!     Sucks worse in the rain.   

Q? Do CAP Cadets get the new digital camo?      Or is that just Mari. and Army?!

[MIKE]

Q? Do CAP Cadets get the new digital camo?      Or is that just Mari. and Army?!

For now it's woodland camouflage BDUs or navy blue CAP Field Uniforms... Essentially blue BDUs.

[CAP006]

For now it's woodland camouflage BDUs or navy blue CAP Field Uniforms... Essentially blue BDUs.

Thank you!    But will we be getting the Digital camo at all?
I think we should get the digital camo.

Thoughts


Mod Edit: Fixed broken quote tag. --MK

[shorning]

But will we be getting the Digital camo at all?

Who knows.  Right now it's irrelevant.  Someday when the camouflage BDUs are all gone, we (CAP) will have to decide if we're going to wear the field uniform, or ask the Air Force for permission to wear the ABU.

As an aside, other than "looking cool" what advantage do the ABUs offer over the field uniform?  In other words, why do you want to wear them?

[Psicorp]

But will we be getting the Digital camo at all?

Who knows.  Right now it's irrelevant.  Someday when the camoflauge BDUs are all gone, we (CAP) will have to decide if we're going to wear the field uniform, or ask the Air Force for permission to wear the ABU.

As an aside, other than "looking cool" what advantage do the ABUs offer over the field uniform?  In other words, why do you want to wear them?

If the purpose of camoflauge is to blend oneself in with the background, doesn't wearing the orange safety vest just about cancel it out completely?   I can recall being on a ground team on a SAR mission during deer season and wishing the Powers That Be had authorized orange BDUs.

[shorning]

But will we be getting the Digital camo at all?

Who knows.  Right now it's irrelevant.  Someday when the camouflage BDUs are all gone, we (CAP) will have to decide if we're going to wear the field uniform, or ask the Air Force for permission to wear the ABU.

As an aside, other than "looking cool" what advantage do the ABUs offer over the field uniform?  In other words, why do you want to wear them?

If the purpose of camouflage is to blend oneself in with the background, doesn't wearing the orange safety vest just about cancel it out completely?   I can recall being on a ground team on a SAR mission during deer season and wishing the Powers That Be had authorized orange BDUs.

That's all well and good, but doesn't begin to answer my question.  Actually, it's kind of irrelevant to my question.

[CAP006]

But will we be getting the Digital camo at all?



So if we do get the ADU`s, when will we get them?

Q, still stands, Are we going to get the ADU`s at all?

[MIKE]

There is a rumor floating around that we will transition to the Airman Battle Uniform (ABU).

CAP Will Transition the ABU

[ncc1912]

There is a rumor floating around that we will transition to the Airman Battle Uniform (ABU).

CAP Will Transition the ABU

Just remember:  Since the mandatory wear date for AD Air Force is 2011 CAP will more than likely transition before that date, as well.  It is just that CAP's transition will more than likely be much shorter (not 5-years);  probably more like 1 to 2 years, from 2009 through 2011, when/if approved by the National Board.  This will enable AAFES to supply the rest of the Air Force and replenish their stock.  (because AAFES never has enough )

Currently, not everyone in the AF is getting the uniform.  They are not even issuing it to new recruits (or "trainees," as the Air Force likes to call them) at Lackland yet, but as airman deploy to the "sand box" they will begin to be issued the Airman Battle Uniform (ABU) in lieu of the Dessert Camouflage Uniform (DCU) starting this fall.  Next spring, I believe, they are going to be issuing them to trainees at Lackland and hopefully they will be available for sale in AAFES stores and AAFES.com in late 2007.

[mawr]

I saw a video on the subject on www.af.mil that said that the ABU will be issued to those attending basic training starting in 2007.

[ZigZag911]

In view of the fact that one of our principal uses for BDUs is for ground team work on search missions (where we want our people highly visible to one another, as well as to aircraft), what possible need to we have for the current camoflauge BDUs or the new ABU?

It seems to me that, fundamentally, these uniforms are needed by combat soldiers, those supporting them directly, or those training for possible roles in either area.

The blue field uniform would at least have the advantage of getting all our members in ONE field uniform -- uniformity!! Granted, we'd still need the oprange vests for visibility.

[MIKE]

You could make that argument if the Minimum Basic Service Uniform was really the uniform for cadeting around in and you only needed a utility uniform for ES functions.  But since it's not... You're gonna have some pissed off cadets and some seniors, when you tell them they can't wear the Air Force style utility uniform for doing cadet things in.

I don't agree with the arguments that since somebody either can't or doesn't wish to wear Air Force style uniforms, that everyone else should have to wear CAP distinctives because of uniformity... but really because they can't wear it, so nobody should.

[CAPRANGER]

Good afternoon all.

I just wanted to comment on the latest discussions regarding the BDU's.  As a new Airman in the US Air Force, just having recently completed my BMT and Tech Training as a Command Post Controller, I feel it is appropriate to weigh in at this time.

In regards to starch.  In Basic they tell you the first few days that starch will ruin BDU's, that there is a substance undetectable to Night Vision and/or Infared and when starch is applied, will take that away and one will become uniformly combat ineffective.  However, on the flip side of that instruction, we were told it didn't matter about that anyway, because the war is in the sandbox anyway, and we won't be wearing BDU's, but DCU's.  Then we just brought them to the cry cleaner's every few days, and heavy starch was applied.  Now, in Tech Training, you don't have Military Training Instructors(DI's), bu.t Military Training Leaders.  They are in the dormitories to help guide you through the rest of your training.  However, after a two week class at Lackland AFB, TX, many of these MTL's as we call them thought they went through the 16 week MTIS.  Getting back on track...If our uniforms were not starched at Tech Training, we were assigned extra duty on the weekend called an NCD, which was Charge of Quarters.  Obviously, you aren't supposed to starch your uniforms by what is said on the tags, but the reality, and the way the current Air Force is, we starch our uniforms more than we even need to.  In addition, I am in the USAF Honor Guard.  For Honor Guardsmen, we ALWAYS starch our uniforms, to the point we have to dress each other because the BDU's are too hard, as in they will bounce off the ground if you drop them.  In addition, we leather luster our boots, wear taps, etc.  All these things are great for Honor Guardsmen, but not for the general welfare of the USAF, and that trickles down to the CAP.

Second, CAP in my opinion does not need the new ABU's at all.  The USAF will start issuing the ABU's this fall we are told, and that is only to top leadership, recruiters, basic trainees, and deployed Airmen.  CAP is not a combat organization.  It is a federally chartered non-profit organization which clearly states combat is not one of it's roles.  That is my personal opinion, as CAP needs the regular BDU's with colored patches in the woods on SAR missions.

I thank you for the time in letting my express my personal views, opinions, and experiences and hope this wil generate positive discussion.

A1C Joseph. S. Gorgoglione, USAF

[Smokey]

I think the issue will end up being cost as far as CAP switching to the ABU.  As the Army, Marines, Air Force switch uniforms, it will not be cost effective for the manufacturers to produce BDUs. It's rare you can find now the old  solid green "pickle suit" used by the Air Force before they went to the BDU.

There comes a point where it is cheaper for all to make the switch to what is being worn by the AF--the ABU.  When the AF switches over, the BX will no longer carry the BDU. And not everyone wants to wear used BDUs that were turned in to DRMO.  BDUs will mostly be available in surplus stores.  Most are used with some new, but the supply will run out eventually.