Vanguard Letter from the National Commander

[RADIOMAN015]

It is what it is.  Get over it or find some other volunteer group to join.  It is always amazing that the minority that are so unhappy with things can be so vocal.  It is also amazing that the same people P & M over everything..

CAP TALK is a great place for those happy as well as unhappy with CAP "volunteer" life & selected polices to post their opinions.  Some will agree and some won't, that's the way it is

Personally to a certain extent I find it amusing that Vanguard can't maintain a specific processing standard that most others in the fulfilment mail order retailing industry seem to be able to do.  Others posting seem to agree with that.

As far as quiting CAP over this, I doubt that anyone will (even stating that is childish, but does exhibit the mindset of some in CAP, who somehow believe they are in a military tops down organization and not an organization that really depends upon volunteers from the bottoms up to be successful).  As far as not expressing negative opinions, doubt that (and I think you will find that when warranted I've posted positive opinions also, just as others have also done on the list).

BTW as the Unit PAO today I actually got two TV stations to cover a wing wide event held at our host base, there's been very little success with this in the past.   Hopefully, I'll also be successful with getting coverage for some upcoming regional activities that will also be held at our host military base.   

Lets get Vanguard to get their house in order, they've had enough time to correct their processing problems.   Pretty simple, when you have a problem with Vanguard call the Membership Service Department at National Headquarters (they will have the statistics from Vanguard on how many orders were processed so there's no need for happy people to call them since the mindset is everything is "wonderful" on those total orders processed so they do need to know who is unhappy).     
RM

[peter rabbit]

thanks for the info on contacting NHQ. i ordered a regimental tie 2 March - Vanguard is saying they should have it by the end of April!

[tdepp]

So, how about we concentrate on helping NHQ make our experience with Vanguard better?

Todd,
It is simple, you call membership service and tell them about your experience with Vanguard. (There is someone at National Headquarters handling this monitoring).   BTW please compare it to what you normally experience when dealing with mail order retailers.  Maybe I've been lucky (as well as others posting) in those mail order retailers that I deal with seem to be able to ship same day or the next day at the latest on stock items.

My experience tells me that their is a problem with Vanguard in that they cannot maintain consistent processing time standards.  This may be due to not meeting contract requirements (e.g. not enough stock), inadequate staffing, or flawed processing procedures for special orders (e.g. name tags/plates) or a combination of all of these. 
RM

Radio:  I agree.  If people have a bad service experience, they should tell Vanguard and NHQ.  I'm not saying that some of our members haven't had problems with Vanguard.  If so, they should make their feelings known in a professional manner.

I also thank businesses and professionals who do a good job for me as well, so maybe Vanguard and NHQ will get a "thank you" call from me after my next successful order, just to let them know that not everyone thinks they stink.

I've read where some of you have ordered awards and other uniform items prior to conferences and were mad that you didn't get them in time.  Last fall, I ordered quite a bit of foul weather soccer referee gear from a well regarded soccer supplier--Score--I had successfully used in the past about ten days prior to the state tournament.  The long range weather forecast predicted snow, cold, and rain here in SoDak.  (Yes, we play soccer in all sorts of weather.  )  Of course it arrived the following week after the tournament.  But really, who's fault was that?  Mine.  I waited too long to order what I know I would need for a soccer tournament in mid-October in northern South Dakota.  My bad, not Score's.

I've had very good luck with eBay merchants, even on CAP related items, with quick service.  For whatever reasons, there appears to be a lot of ribbons and sliders for sale from former members.  You might look there as a Plan B to Vanguard.   You can also have Vanguard ship what they have in stock now and the backordered stuff when it is back in stock.

[tdepp]

BTW as the Unit PAO today I actually got two TV stations to cover a wing wide event held at our host base, there's been very little success with this in the past.   Hopefully, I'll also be successful with getting coverage for some upcoming regional activities that will also be held at our host military base.

Congratulations on the positive coverage.  But I think you buried the lead.  You should have then told the media that Vanguard is the the AIG of the uniform provisioning industry and they could uncork an investigate report that could win them a 2010 Buckeye News Hawk Award if they do a story on the uncaring monopolists and their NHQ co-conspirators.

For example: 

"Tonight on Eyewitness New at 10, a Channel 5 investigation reveals that the local Civil Air Patrol squadron's supplier of uniform items sometimes takes a week more than they say when CAP members order their Senior Rating Historian Badges.  The shocking details, next!" 

Now THAT'S news you can use!

[RADIOMAN015]

Interesting, not sure when this survey was done on Vanguard but check out the following link:
http://www.surveymonkey.com/s.aspx?sm=u3R_2fqNEizZR2s9BmYzJPjA_3d_3d

Not sure who is doing this survey, it does have the CAP seal on it.
RM

[DakRadz]

Perhaps an underlying factor to all this anti-VG emotion is the fact that our (admittedly corporate) organization has eliminated the mom-and-pop store of CAP. It's a lot easier to forgive fellow CAPpers that know how important some orders might be, than a business that just wants profit.

Since this is about the letter from Maj. Gen. Courter, here's a good point (to me). Blue Beret, that's a National Activity- decent fund allocation, at the very least appropriate for NHQ to do. Now correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't Hawk Mountain exclusively for PAWG?  Leastways, when I looked it up to see if I could apply (as a ALWG/GAWG cadet), that was my impression.

[JayT]

Hawk is an NCSA

[tsrup]

Really   Why don't you ask the many senior members (and even cadets) that need something for an upcoming event that didn't get it on time.    Lets face it when you deal with Vanguard you are spinning the guessing wheel as to when you will get you order. 

This is one of my pet peeves.  Don't blame the supplier because you didn't plan ahead on your uniform items. 
Maybe there are a few exceptions to the rule, but generally the occasions where I've run into that excuse it was as a result of procrastination on the person ordering, not the shipper. 

[vmstan]

Hawk is open to anyone, it's just run by PAWG, from what I understand.

POLICY OF HAWK MT FACILITY USE BY CAP MEMBERS:
The Col Neuweiler Training Facility - Hawk Mountain Ranger School is a tremendous asset that all CAP Members should be using:

The Hawk Mountain Ranger Training Facility is owned by the Civil Air Patrol. It is operated, maintained & managed by PA Wing.

[Hawk200]

This is one of my pet peeves.  Don't blame the supplier because you didn't plan ahead on your uniform items. 
Maybe there are a few exceptions to the rule, but generally the occasions where I've run into that excuse it was as a result of procrastination on the person ordering, not the shipper.

How far should you plan ahead? At what point is it a person's procrastination or just not being shipped in a timely manner?

Last summer, I ordered a number of items about four weeks before the activity. I was sent an email two weeks after the order asking if I wanted the in-stock items shipped first. This was an option that I had selected when placing the order. Another few days went by before it showed the dreaded "in transit". It arrived the day after the meeting, but two days before the activity, so I had to make a trip to drop things off to the person in charge.

In your opinion, did I order in time? If I didn't, how far in advance should I have ordered?

[DakRadz]

Hawk is open to anyone, it's just run by PAWG, from what I understand.

POLICY OF HAWK MT FACILITY USE BY CAP MEMBERS:
The Col Neuweiler Training Facility - Hawk Mountain Ranger School is a tremendous asset that all CAP Members should be using:

The Hawk Mountain Ranger Training Facility is owned by the Civil Air Patrol. It is operated, maintained & managed by PA Wing.

Ooooo, well then. I can be a *RAAAANGER*? Know what I'm doing next summer.
Sorry, irrevelant reference. Anyway, I suppose that is technically proper use of funds, then.
~~~~
I've always received my items quicker from The Hock (Postal Service, too- before the change) and they automatically shipped my in-stock items (I had ordered a complete enlisted rank set, they were out of c/CMSgt). Vanguard is slower, but they are bigger; Vanguard doesn't do as many specialty items, but they are not a specifically CAP store (though as the official store, they should act like it..) The Hock had problems, too- often out of stock, but at least they changed the website so you couldn't order at all.

[A.Member]

I have yet to see this letter via official communication channels.  Are we sure this letter (OP) was publicly distributed to the membership? 

[davidsinn]

I have yet to see this letter via official communication channels.  Are we sure this letter (OP) was publicly distributed to the membership?

I got it from my wing commander over the weekend.

[mynetdude]

well if HMRS is an NCSA why is there a separate application process for it? IIRC you can't apply for it via eServices in the NDSA and um why are we providing funding for a vehicle/equipment we are not allowed to operate/own? a 4WD Bobcat? I didn't know it was allowed to be owned/operated by CAP?

I guess I won't be buying anything from VG I already pay for membership via my dues, why do I need to keep paying national for more? We didn't get asked if it was OK with us they are just siphoning money right out of our money for their own good? IF I want to give NHQ or my wing or my squadron money I will do it willingly directly by writing a CHECK to that entity not through some product purchase.

I preferred to go through the Hock because of their speedy response in spite of once I had a backorder and I had to ask about it and I was told concerning such issues.  Vanguard has only exceeded my expectations once and sent stuff to me via fedex overnight when I didn't ask for it a long time ago. I also went through the Hock as there were more varieties.

VG isn't just for CAP what about USCG Aux? What does VG do with the monies for those purchases? Does CGAux have a licensing deal with VG for that?

[SarDragon]

well if HMRS is an NCSA why is there a separate application process for it?

It's administered by PAWG, not NHQ. That's no different from a wing or regional encampment application, except this event counts as an NCSA.

IIRC you can't apply for it via eServices in the NDSA and um why are we providing funding for a vehicle/equipment we are not allowed to operate/own? a 4WD Bobcat? I didn't know it was allowed to be owned/operated by CAP?

My guess is that the HAWK folks demonstrated a need, set down some rules for use, showed a history of safe use in the pre-ban days, and applied for and got a waiver. The process was in place, and they used it.

I guess I won't be buying anything from VG I already pay for membership via my dues, why do I need to keep paying national for more? We didn't get asked if it was OK with us they are just siphoning money right out of our money for their own good? IF I want to give NHQ or my wing or my squadron money I will do it willingly directly by writing a CHECK to that entity not through some product purchase.

I preferred to go through the Hock because of their speedy response in spite of once I had a backorder and I had to ask about it and I was told concerning such issues.  Vanguard has only exceeded my expectations once and sent stuff to me via fedex overnight when I didn't ask for it a long time ago. I also went through the Hock as there were more varieties.

VG isn't just for CAP what about USCG Aux? What does VG do with the monies for those purchases? Does CGAux have a licensing deal with VG for that?

No answers on the remainder. You're on your own there.

[tdepp]

well if HMRS is an NCSA why is there a separate application process for it? IIRC you can't apply for it via eServices in the NDSA and um why are we providing funding for a vehicle/equipment we are not allowed to operate/own? a 4WD Bobcat? I didn't know it was allowed to be owned/operated by CAP?

VG isn't just for CAP what about USCG Aux? What does VG do with the monies for those purchases? Does CGAux have a licensing deal with VG for that?

As someone also joining USCGAux, I'm not sure but I think Lighthouse Uniform Company is their main uniform supplier.  They also seem to sell quite a bit of their own stuff.  RiverAux, aren't you also a Auxiliarist?

USCGAux, I'm sure, makes its own deals with its vendors.  Vanguard mostly just sells ranks and badges for them, not uniforms like they do for us. 

[MIKE]

Though it is true that Lighthouse "makes" uniforms already configured for Auxiliarists, it would be like saying The Hock is the official supplier for CAP.  When you buy insignia and accessories from CGEX or UDC they come in Vanguard packaging  I would think that it is conceivable that at least some of the stuff is made under contract with the Coast Guard proper.

[DogCollar]

Can anyone tell me why Vanguard does not sell all appropriate AF Style uniform items?  Why don't they sell the AF Officers Service Coat?  AF Style blue windbreaker?  AF style sweaters?

[MIKE]

Because you are supposed to get those through AAFES MCSS.  What they do sell is out of convenience for your average CAP member.  The CAP Bookstore used to sell mess dress, the Wooly Pully and the lightweight blue jacket though.

[DogCollar]

Because you are supposed to get those through AAFES MCSS.  What they do sell is out of convenience for your average CAP member.  The CAP Bookstore used to sell mess dress, the Wooly Pully and the lightweight blue jacket though.

I understand.  However....

As I read the Generals letter, she is asking us to utilize Vanguard for our CAP needs, because they turn around and give a portion back for certain, select CAP training centers.  Yet, there are certain things we are pretty much forced to get from other sources, such as AAFES  MCSS.  Yet, AAFES MCSS doesn't have on-line purchasing available for CAP members, nor does AAFES MCSS return a percentage of that expenditure to CAP.

Just seems to me that the exclusive supplier to CAP should have EVERYTHING a CAP member might need.