CAP and UFO's?????

[James Shaw]

Here is a nice addition to the CAP Archives courtesy of Col Tonya Boylan of GAWG. I hope you enjoy...

[a2capt]

LOL, ya know.. it wouldn't be the same without the redactions.

[HGjunkie]

Copies Destroyed... Nice.

[Майор Хаткевич]

So...someone finds a model RC and calls it a UFO and it gets investigated?

[Spaceman3750]

So...someone finds a model RC and calls it a UFO and it gets investigated?

Did they have RC airplanes in the late 40's?

[Майор Хаткевич]

So...someone finds a model RC and calls it a UFO and it gets investigated?

Did they have RC airplanes in the late 40's?

That's what I got from the description.

It's a home made model of something...that's what the paper says.

[a2capt]

RC aircraft have existed in the form we know now for about 90 years. They have a really nice timeline of hardware in the San Diego Air & Space Museum, too. A lot of vacuum tube based hardware that you'd look it and think, "that was able to fly?" .. it did.

In a more symbolic move than anything, on approach to Roswell some years back, I put a couple Pot Pie pans together to form your stereotypical 'UFO', and put two of them out the small window on a Piper Arrow.. 

UFOs over Roswell... more like someone might find 'em in the field outside of town and get a chuckle.. 

[SARDOC]

This just kinda makes me chuckle a bit.  I've never really though about  CAP involved with UFO's

[octavian]

Very cool!  I don't think I've ever heard the word "telephonically" before.

[AC]

I was reading another thread about stolen valor in the CAP, and saw this interesting thread title. Did a little search and look what I found...
http://kevinrandle.blogspot.com/2010/07/del-rio-ufo-crash-and-mj-12.html

And then this from the same guy...
http://kevinrandle.blogspot.com/2010/01/ufos-and-stolen-valor.html

[Cindi]

From the June 24, 1985 Ellensburg, Washington Daily Record:

SEATTLE (UPI) - Several dozen true believers continue to mark the anniversary of "nine shiny, pulsating objects floating over Mount Rainer" 38 years ago.

That report by Civil Air Patrol pilot Kenneth Arnold on June 24, 1947 was the first report of an unidentified flying object and set off the first major wave of UFO sightings in the United States. The believers gathered over the weekend at Seattle Center to commemorate the first UFO sighting.

Arnold died during the past year in Meridian, Idaho, but UFO reports still roll in by the thousands every year. The only difference is that today they are more likely to be called "Frisbee-shaped."

The debate between believers and skeptics over the existence of "flying saucers" continues. Many of the believers, who concede 90 percent of UFO reports are traceable to explainable phenomena, say there are many sightings that even dedicated skeptics and debunkers can't explain.

Among the believers is former Army major, Wayne Aho, whose New Age Foundation of Tacoma sponsored the 24th annual New Space Age Convention at the Seattle Center.

Aho maintained in every instance of UFO sightings is followed by a denial story a couple of days later.

"That's why we charge there is a Watergate-style cover-up concerning UFOs. The stories all are suppressed, and if you want to be immediately incarcerated in jail or a hospital by authorities, just say you've been taken aboard a UFO."

-----

Kenneth Arnold:



----

The United States Air Force's first plane crash, UFO's, dog burial at sea and Kenneth Arnold:

The Maury Island UFO Incident
The mystery starts with a UFO sighting by Harold Dahl on June 21, 1947, 2:00 pm over Maury Island Washington. Dahl along with his son and two crewmen were salvaging logs south of Maury Island when they saw six doughnut shaped disks hovering over the bay. One disk was wobbling and appeared to be in trouble. It lowered itself to about 500 feet above the water and was joined by five other disks. Upon what appeared to be assistance from one of the disks, the floundering disk dropped what appeared to be shiny aluminum metal on the beach followed by black lava like rock (or slag) into the water which created steam upon hitting the water. The falling slag wounded Dahl's son Charles and killed their dog. Charles was taken to the local hospital in Tacoma for first aid and the dog's body was buried at sea on their return trip. Kenneth Arnold's UFO Sighting Three days later on June 24, 1947, a pilot by the name of Kenneth Arnold saw nine disks "skipping" across the North face of Mt. Rainier and was to become the sighting in which media coined the term "Flying Saucer". He was interviewed by local and national press including Edward R. Murrow and his sighting made radio and news headlines around the world. He was later interviewed by 1st Lt. Frank M. Brown along with Capt. William L. Davidson from Hamilton Field in California.

Kenneth Arnold meets Harold Dahl and the Military
Kenneth Arnold was interested in UFOs after his sighting and answered a request by Ray Palmer - an editor in Chicago to investigate the nearby Maury Island sighting and a meeting was arranged with Harold Dahl at the Winthrop Hotel in Tacoma where Arnold was joined by United Airlines pilot Capt. E. J. Smith. The officers 1st Lt. Frank Brown and Capt. Davidson were called back at the request of Kenneth Arnold to also review these witnesses. The officers met with Kenneth Arnold and Harold Dahl and collected all the fragments of rock to take back with them to Hamilton Field. It was about midnight on July 31, 1947 when they finished interviewing and they called for a command car to pick them up as they seemed in a hurry to return to Hamiliton Field as it was Air Force Day - the inauguration day of the separation of the Air Force from the Army and all planes were needed. Kenneth Arnold in his book "The Coming of the Saucers" comments that just as the Army command car pulled up in front of the hotel where he and Capt. Smith were staying, Fred L. Crisman - Harold Dahl's supervisor came by and started taking a large Kellogg's corn flakes box (believed to be a large box with flaps) out of his trunk and Kenneth Arnold helped Crisman unload this box from his car into the trunk of the command car. Arnold states he could see the top of the box flapping open and "Inside the box were a great number of large chunks of material that looked similar to the fragments we had in our room". Arnold yelled "Goodbye and good luck" as the command car drove away. That was the last time Arnold and Capt. Smith were to see the officers. Soon after returning to his hotel room, a Tacoma Times reporter Ted Morello called to say that a mysterious telephone informant had told him what had taken place in their hotel room. This informant's information appeared accurate to the point that Arnold thought a small transmitter had been planted somewhere in their room although they could never find one.

The B-25 Bomber Crash - the Air Force's first Fatalities
Arnold the next morning around 9:20am received a call from Fred Crisman informing him that the radio was mentioning news of a B-25 bomber that had exploded and crashed twenty minutes after take off from McChord Field. The B-25 Bomber had crashed near Kelso Washington when the left engine caught on fire. Arnold was later to hear a recorded interview by Ted Morello of Sgt. Elmer L. Taff who was one of the survivors of the plane crash. Sgt. Taff related fifteen to twenty minutes after take off it was noticed that the left engine was on fire. Sgt. Matthew's had tried the emergency fire fighting system which did not work. Then Lt. Brown squeezed through the doorway and commanded them to strap on their parachutes. Lt. Brown had his harness on but not his parachute. He harshly commanded them both to jump. Lt. Brown quickly told him how to pull the rip chord when he was sure he was clear of the ship and actually forcibly shoved him out of the plane into the night. Taff related a good ten minutes had elapsed between the time he parachuted out at 10,000 ft. until the fire reached serious proportions and the plane started to dive. Taff also related of how shortly before they took off the pilot and copilot loaded a heavy cardboard box aboard the B-25. Taff noticed it particularly because it seemed very heavy for one man to carry. This box was placed over to one side of the compartment that he and the engineer occupied. Ted Morello also informed Kenneth Arnold that the B-25 Bomber that landed at McChord Field was under military armed guard every minute it was at the field. It was implied by the nature of that statement that this was unusual and Morello was scared for their safety.  A local newspaper article also gave clues to what happened aboard the plane. Woodrow D. Matthews, crew chief of the bomber reported helping Davidson and Brown into their parachutes and that at the time he jumped, flames from the blazing left engine were pouring into the cockpit. It was reported that Brown was "standing in the aisle ready to leave the plane" when Matthews himself jumped out. Brown was found at the crash site with his parachute harness on but had apparently returned to the cockpit. His body was found in the wreckage. Matthews related that the only reason he could see that the officers did not get out was that the left wing might have crumpled, trapping them in the plane.  T/4 Woodrow D. Matthews, crew chief of the bomber who put the parachute on Sgt. Taff saving his life was proposed for the Soldier's Medal. An FBI report states the left wing was found 125 yards from the plane impact site and likely fell off throwing the plane into a plummeting spin. Later that day Kenneth Arnold again received a call from Ted Morello. The mysterious informant that kept calling Morello stated the B-25 bomber from Hamilton Field had been shot down by a 20mm cannon. The Tacoma Times that day's headlines read "Sabotage Hinted in Crash of Army Bomber at Kelso" and a sub-headline read "Plane May Hold Flying Disk Secret". Written by Paul Lance the article stated the plane had been sabotaged or shot down to prevent shipment of flying disk fragments to Hamilton Field, California, for analysis. "The disk parts were said by the informant to be those from one of the mysterious platters which plunged to earth on the Maury Island" recently. Leading substance to the caller's theory is the fact that twelve hours before the Army released official identification, the informant correctly identified the dead in the crash to be Capt. William L. Davidson and 1st Lt. Frank M. Brown. This Tacoma Times article also stated "At McChord field an intelligence officer confirmed the informants report that the B-25 Bomber had been carrying classified material".

Paul Lance was later to die two weeks later of unknown reasons. Pathologist studied his body for thirty six hours but could not find any cause of death. Arnold was later informed that the crash was caused by the loss of an exhaust collector ring on the left engine. It was never explained by the military why Capt. Davidson and Lt. Brown never notified anyone by radio of their distress nor why they themselves did not parachute. It is likely both Davidson and Brown knew the urgency of the situation but stayed with the plane until the last moments and then it became too late. There has been no indication that the officers were conducting any additional classified missions other than interviewing the UFO sighting witnesses and carrying any other type of evidence on board. Seattle Post Intelligencer Aug. 3, 1947 AP report states "Pieces not Located." Brig. Gen. Ned Schramm, chief of staff, Fourth Air Force, said he knew nothing about reports that the plane was carrying "classified or secret material." "As far as I know, the plane was supposed to come in here empty." he said, "and there wasn't a single, solitary, secret thing aboard".  Air Rescue Service Final Mission Report states "at 0930PST, a message from Sq.B informed that top secret material was in the navigators kit and to request Commanding Officer McChord Field to expedite all available information to Commanding Officer Hamilton Field".

[Cindi]

Kenneth Arnold:



Podcast with Kenneth Arnold's daughter: http://media18.podbean.com/pb/dbf6817b8f5ee552b19f03667f0f7a0b/4f3a0e45/blogs18/284744/uploads/ufo47KIMarnold.mp3

Kenneth Arnold's daughter on Coast to Coast AM with George Noory: Kenneth Arnold The Father of Modern Era UFO sighting CoastoCoast am 16.012012.mov

[Cindi]

UFO REPORTING PROCEDURES:

AIR FORCE MANUAL 55-11 (AFM 55-11) OPERATIONS - AIR FORCE OPERATIONAL REPORTING SYSTEM
20 MAY 1968: http://www.cufon.org/cufon/AFM55-11C.htm

FROM THE JOINT CHIEFS OF STAFF - JANAP 146(E), CANADIAN - UNITED STATES COMMUNICATIONS INSTRUCTIONS FOR  REPORTING VITAL INTELLIGENCE SIGHTINGS - 31 MARCH 1966: http://www.cufon.org/cufon/janp146e.htm

UFO's flew over the nation's capitol in 1952, radar had them flying over the White House at 1,700 feet:

UFO July 1952/July 2002 US Capitol

From the Washington Post, July 28, 1952:



Investigation On In Secret After Chase Over Capital by Paul Sampson, Post Reporter July 28, 1952:

Military secrecy veils an investigation of the mysterious, glowing aerial objects that showed up on radar screens in the Washington area Saturday night for the second consecutive week.

A jet pilot sent up by the Air Defense Command to investigate the objects reported he was unable to overtake the glowing lights moving near Andrews Air Force Base.

The CAA reported reported the objects traveled at "predominantly lower levels"-about 1700 feet. July 19.

Air Force spokesmen said yesterday only that an investigation was being made into the sighting of the objects on the radar screen in the CAA Air Route Traffic Control Center at Washington National Airport, and on two other radar screens . Methods of the investigations were classified as secret, a spoken said.

" We have no evidence they are flying saucers; conversely we have no evidence they are not flying saucers. We don't know what they are," a spokesman added.

The same source reported an expert from the Air Technical Intelligence Center at Wright-Patterson Air Force Base, Dayton Ohio, was here last week investigating the objects sighted July 19.

The expert has been identified as Capt. E. J. Ruppelt. Reached by telephone at his home in Dayton yesterday, Ruppelt said he could make no comment on his activity in Washington.

Capt. Ruppelt confirmed he was in Washington last week but said he had not come here to investigate the mysterious objects. He recalled he did make an investigation after hearing of the objects, but could not say what he investigated.

Another Air Force spokesman said here yesterday the Air Force is taking all steps necessary to evaluate the sightings. "The intelligence people," this spokesman explained, "sent someone over to the control center at the time of the sightings and did whatever necessary to make the proper evaluation.

Asked whether the radar equipment might have been mis-functioning, the spokesman said, "radar, like the compass is not a perfect instrument and is subject to error." He thought, however,the investigation would be made by persons acquainted with the problems of radar.

Two other radar screens in the area picked up the objects.An employee of the National Airport control tower said the radar scope there picked up very weak "blips" of the objects. The tower radar's for "short range" and is not so powerful as that at the center. Radar at Andrews Air Force Base also registered the objects from about seven miles south of the base.

A traffic control center spokesman said the nature of the signals on the radar screen ruled out any possibility they were from clouds or any other "weather" disturbance.

"The returns we received from the unidentified objects were similar and analagous to targets representing aircraft in flight," he said.

The objects, "flying saucer or what have you, appeared on the radar scope at the airport center at 9:08 PM. Varying from 4 to 12 in number,the objects appeared on the screen until 3:00 AM., when they diappeared.

AT 11:25 PM., two F-94 jet fighters fro Air Defense Command squadron, at New CAstle Delaware, capable of 600 hundred mph speeds, took off to investigate the objects.

Airline, civil and military pilots described the objects as looking like the lit end of a cigarette or a cluster of orange and red lights.

One jet pilot observed 4 lights in the vicinity of Andrews Air Force Base, but was not able to over-take them, and they disappeared in about two minutes.

The same pilot observed a steady white light in the vicinity of Mt Vernon at 11:49 PM. The light, about 5 miles from him, faded in a minute. The lights were also observed in the Beltsville, MD., vicinity. At 1:40 AM two-other F-94 jet fighters took off and scanned the area until 2:20 AM., but did not make any sightings.

Visible Two Ways

Although "unidentified objects" have been picked up on radar before, the incidents of the last two saturdays are believed to be the first time the objects have been picked up on radar-while visible to the human eye

Besides the pilots, who last saturday saw the lights, a woman living on Mississippi Ave., told the Post she saw a very "bright light streaking across the sky towards Andrews Air Force Base about 11:45 PM. Then a second object with a tail like a comet whizzed by, and a few seconds later, a third passed in a different direction toward Suntland, she said.

Radar operators plotted the speed of "saturday night's visitors" at from 38 to 90 mph, but one jet pilot reported faster speeds for the light he saw.

The jet pilot reported he had no apparent "closing speed" when he attempted to reach the lights he saw near Andrews Air Force Base. That means the lights were moving atleast as fast as his top speed-a maximum of 600 mph.

One person who saw the lights when they first appeared in this area did not see them last night. He is E.W. Chambers, an engineer at Radio Station WRC, who spotted the lights while working early the morning of July 20 at station's Hyattsville tower.

Chamber's said he was sorry he had seen the lights because he had been skeptical about "flying saucers" before. Now he said, he sort of "wonders" and worrys about the whole thing.

Leon Davidson, 804 South Irving St. Arlington, a chemical engineer who made an exhaustive study of "flying saucers' as a hobby, said yesterday reports of saucers in the East, have been relatively rare.

Davidson has studied the official report on the saucers, including some of the secret portions never made public, and analyzed all the data in the report.

Davidson, whose study of saucers is impressively detailed and scientific, said he believes the lights are American "aviation products"-probably "circular flying wings," using new type jet engines that permit rapid acceleration and relatively low speeds. He believes, they are either "new fighter," guided missiles, or piloted guided missiles.

He cited some of the recent jet fighters, including the Navy's new " F-4-D, which has a radical "bat-wing," as examples of what the objects might resemble.

Davidson thinks the fact that the lights have been seen in this area indicates the authorities may be ready to disclose the "new aircraft" in the near future. Previously, most of the "verified saucers" have been seen over sparsely inhabited areas, Davidson explained, and now, when they appear here, it may indicate that "secrecy" is not so important any more.

[Cindi]

Rest in Peace Little Traveler: http://www.findagrave.com/cgi-bin/fg.cgi?page=gr&GSvcid=145676&GRid=52130170&



Aurora, Texas 1897 UFO crash lecture:

Aurora Crash 1897 Jim Marrs 1 *WITH SOUND*

History Channel report on the 1897 flying airship crash:

[HST] UFO Files - Texas' Roswell-1.avi

[AC]

Interesting stuff, Cindi! In 1952, we lived in Ft. Myers, VA. My dad was the NCOIC of the clerks in the Office of the Secretary of Defense in the Pentagon. I imagine he saw a lot of correspondence about the UFO flap. I personally saw the formations of lights over the Capitol in Washington. I was 9 years old, and I and my two younger brothers were coming home from fishing in the Potomac River and saw them. My father never, for the rest of his life, ever talked about it. Not one word.

[Huey Driver]

I helped restore an 1940's USAAF RC trainer and it looked pretty funky, certainly not like a disc though.

[Cindi]

Old newscasts on ufo's -

Kenneth Arnold Interviewed by Bill Berquette on June 25, 1947:
http://www.konsulting.com/K-Arnold%20Layer-3.WAV, 1.2 MB

ABC Headline Edition: Taylor Grant's July 7, 1947 newscast of disc recovery by roswell Army Air Field personnel:
http://www.konsulting.com/ABC-Roswell-1947Layer-3.WAV, 637 KB

ABC Radio broadcast of July 10, 1947, Search for Flying Saucers, with WalterKlernon:
http://www.konsulting.com/ABC-Search%20for%20Saucers-1947%20Layer-3.WAV, 2.4 MB

CBS Radio Special Report, Case for the Flying Saucers, with Edward R. Murrow (aired in May, 1949):
http://www.konsulting.com/CBS%20Radio%20Special%20-%201949%20Layer-3.WAV, 5.5 MB

[Cindi]

About two weeks after Kenneth Arnold's "flying saucer" sighting in Washington State, on July 8, 1947 to be exact, this article appeared in the Roswell New Mexico Daily Record. The Roswell Army Air Field (RAAF) public information officer Walter Haut in Roswell, New Mexico, had just issued a press release stating that personnel from the field's 509th Bomb Group had recovered a crashed "flying disk" from a ranch near Roswell:



RAAF Captures Flying Saucer
On Ranch in Roswell Region
No Details of Flying Disk Are Revealed

Roswell Hardware Man and Wife Report Disk Seen

    The intelligence office of the 509th Bombardment group at Roswell Army Air Field announced at noon today, that the field has come into possession of a flying saucer.

    According to information released by the department, over authority of Maj. J. A. Marcel, intelligence officer, the disk was recovered on a ranch in the Roswell vicinity, after an unidentified rancher had notified Sheriff Geo. Wilcox here, that he had found the instrument on his premises.

    Major Marcel and a detail from his department went to the ranch and recovered the disk, it was stated.

    After the intelligence officer here had inspected the instrument it was flown to higher headquarters.

    The intelligence office stated that no details of the saucer's construction or its appearance had been revealed.

    Mr. and Mrs. Dan Wilmot apparently were the only persons in Roswell who saw what they thought was a flying disk.

    They were sitting on their porch at 105 South Penn. last Wednesday night at about ten o'clock when a large glowing object zoomed out of the sky from the southeast, going in a northwesterly direction at a high rate of speed.

    Wilmot called Mrs. Wilmot's attention to it and both ran down into the yard to watch. It was in sight less then a minute, perhaps 40 or 50 seconds, Wilmot estimated.

    Wilmot said that it appeared to him to be about 1,500 feet high and going fast. He estimated between 400 and 500 miles per hour.

    In appearance it looked oval in shape like two inverted saucers, faced mouth to mouth, or like two old type washbowls placed together in the same fashion. The entire body glowed as though light were showing through from inside, though not like it would be if a light were underneath.

    From where he stood Wilmot said that the object looked to be about 5 feet in size, and making allowance for the distance it was from town he figured that it must have been 15 to 20 feet in diameter, though this was just a guess.

    Wilmot said that he heard no sound but that Mrs. Wilmot said she heard a swishing sound for a very short time.

    The object came into view from the southeast and disappeared over the treetops in the general vicinity of six mile hill.

    Wilmot, who is one of the most respected and reliable citizens in town, kept the story to himself hoping that someone else would come out and tell about having seen one, but finally today decided that he would go ahead and tell about it. The announcement that the RAAF was in possession of one came only a few minutes after he decided to release the details of what he had seen.

-------

The next day the press reported that Commanding General of the Eighth Air Force (Roger M. Ramey) stated that, in fact, a radar-tracking balloon had been recovered by the RAAF personnel, not a "flying disc." I hesitate to call General Ramey a liar; but since then the official story has changed a couple times. The Wilmots' in the above story reported the object going between 400 and 500 miles an hour. Do weather balloons travel that fast? New official explanations have since came forward. The first "new story," released in 1995, concluded that the reported recovered material in 1947 was likely debris from a secret government program called Project Mogul, which involved high altitude balloons meant to detect sound waves generated by Soviet atomic bomb tests and ballistic missiles. The second "new story," released in 1997, concluded that reports of recovered alien bodies were likely a combination of innocently transformed memories of military accidents involving injured or killed personnel, innocently transformed memories of the recovery of anthropomorphic dummies in military programs like Project High Dive conducted in the 1950s, and hoaxes perpetrated by various witnesses and UFO proponents. The question you might ask yourself, if the original press release by officer Walter Haut was true, why were flying disks visiting New Mexico? At that time New Mexico was the site of atomic bomb tests near Alamogordo, tests of the V-2 rockets at White Sands and the Roswell Army Air Base was the only home of nuclear bomb equipped bombers at that time. 

[Cindi]

So far in our story, we have Kenneth Arnold seeing "flying saucers" right after searching for a Marine plane over Mount Rainer in June 1947 and two weeks later the Army Air Force releasing a press statement saying they had recovered a "flying disc" in New Mexico. There are lessons to be learned here: If you do find a "flying disc," you probably should not issue a press release right away.

-------

The first Secretary of Defense James Vincent Forrestal (February 15, 1892 – May 22, 1949) died from a fall out of a 16th-floor window at the Bethesda Naval Hospital. No one knows what happened; no one saw a thing. Some speculated he wanted to go public about the "flying discs," but that is just speculation.



------

Then there is the story of Jackie Gleason and President Nixon. It was a chance conversation one afternoon, back in 1974 in Florida, while Jackie was playing golf with one of his regular partners, President Richard Nixon. Jackie had mentioned his interest in UFOs and his large collection of books, and the president admitted that he also shared Jackie's interest and had a sizeable collection of UFO-oriented materials of his own. At the time, the president said little about what he actually knew, but things were to change drastically later on that same night.

Then without notice, President Nixon showed up at his house around midnight, completely alone and driving his own private car. When Jackie asked him why he was there, Nixon told him that he wanted to take him somewhere and show him something. He got into the president's car, and they ended up at the gates of Homestead Air Force Base. They passed through security and drove to the far end of the base, to a tightly-guarded building. Following is a quote directly from Gleason himself, from an interview he gave to UFO researcher and author Larry Warren:

"We drove to the very far end of the base in a segregated area, finally stopping near a well-guarded building. The security police saw us coming and just sort of moved back as we passed them and entered the structure. There were a number of labs we passed through first before we entered a section where Nixon pointed out what he said was the wreckage from a flying saucer, enclosed in several large cases. Next, we went into an inner chamber and there were six or eight of what looked like glass-topped Coke freezers. Inside them were the mangled remains of what I took to be children. Then - upon closer examination - I saw that some of the other figures looked quite old. Most of them were terribly mangled as if they had been in an accident."



Now that story about President Nixon is hard to believe. I can't fathom a President driving his own car without a secret service detail.  But it turns out Nixon had a history of sneaking out on his own. In the following incident, thousands of Vietnam War protestors had the White House and Washington DC under siege. Then at four in the morning Nixon and his valet went over to the Lincoln Memorial where hundreds of protestors were camped out:

New Nixon Tapes Reveal Details of Meeting With Anti-War Activists

Oliver Stone showed this incident in his movie "Nixon."

"The Beast" Nixon At the Lincoln Monument

[Cindi]

1947 and 1952 were big years for UFOs.

The Delbert Newhouse sighting was from 1952:

Delbert Newhouse UFO Footage - 1952 - Tremonton, Utah

More about the 1952 Washington DC sightings and President Truman:

UFO and The White House Part II of XII President Truman

[Cindi]

Here is another FBI memo, talking about three "flying saucers" being recovered in New Mexico, each having three occupants who were about 3 feet tall. It was believed that high powered radar interfered with the craft causing them to crash, according to an Air Force investigator:

[♠SARKID♠]

Reports?  I've been called on a mission for a UFO.  A few years back someone saw some lights in the sky doing strange things.  Resulted in a two day search with two ground teams, an aircraft, and a lot of wasted time.

[Spaceman3750]

Why is it, in this age of 8mp/1080p cameras on cell phones and night vision being available to anyone with cash that the only UFO and Bigfoot photos are blurry, grainy, and impossible to make sense of? :angel:

[SarDragon]

I'm not aware of any modern UFU or Bigfoot pictures, particularly in this century.

[Spaceman3750]

I'm not aware of any modern UFU or Bigfoot pictures, particularly in this century.

Amazing Sasquatch Sighting In Montana

[Cindi]

Mantell UFO incident, January 7, 1948





RIP Capt Thomas Francis Mantell, Jr (1922-1948)

Thomas Mantell Jr.was born in Franklin, Kentucky, Jun. 30, 1922. He was a graduate of Male High School, in Louisville. On Jun. 16, 1942, he joined the Army Air Corps, graduating Flight School on Jun. 30, 1943. During World War II, Mantell was assigned to the 440th Troop Carrier Group, 96th Troop Carrier Squadron, 9th Air Force. He was awarded Distinguished Flying Cross, and Air Medal w/3OLCs for heroism. Following the war he returned to Louisville, joining the newly organized Kentucky Air National Guard, as Flight Leader, "C" Flight, 165th Fighter Squadron, Kentucky Air National Guard on Feb. 16, 1947. Mantell is the first flight casualty of the Kentucky Air National Guard.

The story of how he lost his life is a bit more complicated...Capt. Mantell was piloting a P-51 Mustang fighter near Godman AFB in Kentucky en route to Standiford AFB along with three other Guard planes.

About 1:30 PM the Kentucky State Police began receiving calls from citizens regarding something in the sky over the town of Mansville. Calls soon started pouring in from Irvington and Owensboro Kentucky.

This object was then spotted by the control tower at Godman AFB.They contacted Capt. Mantell and the other planes are requested that they investage this object at about 2:40 PM. Which they did.

Mantell and two other planes reached 15,000 feet and intercepted the object. Mantell radioed, "The object is directly ahead of and above me now, moving at about half my speed...It appears to be a metallic object or possibly reflection of Sun from a metallic object, and it is of tremendous size... I'm still climbing... I'm trying to close in for a better look."

Once they reached about 22,000 feet the other two planes turned back as the WW2 planes were not equipped with Oxygen. But Capt. Mantell kept going after the object. When he reached approximately 30,000 feet he leveled off the plane, but he may have passed out from a lack of oxygen and his plane crashed.

However, there is even more to the story. Capt. Mantell's watch was found to be stopped at 3:18 PM. The unidentified object was out of sight of Godman AFB by 3:50 PM, but reports continued to come in as far south as Tennessee.

A man by the name of Richard T. Miller claims he was in the Scott AFB operations room in Belleville, Illinois during the chase and he states that Capt. Mantell's last words were, "My God, I see people in this thing!"

Captain James F. Duesler was a crash scene investigator who says he saw the unidentified object that Capt. Mantell was pursuing. He describes that crash site as odd, because it appeared the Captain's plane had "pancaked" and landed flat on the ground, which would be unusual for an uncontrolled crash.

The military eventually explained away the cause for the crash, blaming alternately a weather baloon or the pilot "chasing Venus".

But a fellow pilot and friend summed it up with this statement:"The only thing I can think was that he was after something that he believed to be more important than his life or his family."

[Cindi]

Original Mercury astronaut Gordon Cooper on UFOs:

In 1957, Gprdpn Cooper was one of an elite band of test pilots at Edwards Air Force Base in California, in charge of several advanced projects, including the installation of a precision landing system.

"I had a camera crew filming the installation when they spotted a saucer. They filmed it as it flew overhead, then hovered, extended three legs as landing gear, and slowly came down to land on a dry lake bed!

"These guys were all pro cameramen, so the picture quality was very good.

"The camera crew managed to get within 20 or 30 yards of it, filming all the time. It was a classic saucer, shiny silver and smooth, about 30 feet across. It was pretty clear it was an alien craft.

"As they approached closer it took off."

When his camera crew handed over the film, Cooper followed standard procedure and contacted Washington to report the UFO ­ and "all heck broke loose," he said.

"After a while a high-ranking officer said when the film was developed I was to put it in a pouch and send it to Washington.

"He didn't say anything about me not looking at the film. That's what I did when it came back from the lab ­ and it was all there just like the camera crew reported."

When the Air Force later started Operation Blue Book to collate UFO evidence and reports, Cooper says he mentioned the film evidence.

"But the film was never found ­ supposedly. Blue Book was strictly a cover-up anyway."

Cooper revealed he's convinced an alien craft crashed at Roswell, N. Mex., in 1947 and aliens were discovered in the wreckage.

"I had a good friend at Roswell, a fellow officer. He had to be careful about what he said. But it sure wasn't a weather balloon, like the Air Force cover story. He made it clear to me what crashed was a craft of alien origin, and members of the crew were recovered."

Why has the government kept its UFO secrets for so many years?

"It started in World War 2, when the government didn't want people to know about UFO reports in case they panicked," said Cooper. "They would have been fearful it was superior enemy technology that we had no defense against.

"Then it got worse in the Cold War for the same reason.

"So they told one untruth, they had to tell another to cover that one, then another, then another . . . it just snowballed.

"And right now I'm convinced a lot of very embarrassed government officials are sitting there in Washington trying to figure a way to bring the truth out. They know it's got to come out one day, and I'm sure it will.

"America has a right to know!"

Proof of Alien Existence - Destination Paradise Hawaii 1 of 3

[Cindi]

Apollo astronaut Doctor Edgar Mitchell, the sixth person to walk on the moon, and UFOs:

From wiki -

Apollo astronaut Edgar Mitchell has publicly expressed his opinions that he is "90 percent sure that many of the thousands of unidentified flying objects, or UFOs, recorded since the 1940s, belong to visitors from other planets" and that UFOs have been the "subject of disinformation in order to deflect attention and to create confusion so the truth doesn't come out".  Dateline NBC conducted an interview with Mitchell on April 19, 1996, during which he discussed meeting with officials from three countries who claimed to have had personal encounters with extraterrestrials. He offered his opinion that the evidence for such "alien" contact was "very strong" and "classified" by governments, who were covering up visitations and the existence of alien beings' bodies in places such as Roswell, New Mexico. He further claimed that UFOs had provided "sonic engineering secrets" that were helpful to the U.S. government. Mitchell's book, The Way of the Explorer," discusses his journey into mysticism and space.

In 2004 he told the St. Petersburg Times that a "cabal of insiders" in the U.S. government were studying recovered alien bodies, and that this group had stopped briefing U.S. presidents after John F. Kennedy.[10] He said, "We all know that UFOs are real; now the question is, where they come from."

On July 23, 2008 Edgar Mitchell was interviewed on Kerrang Radio by Nick Margerrison. Mitchell claimed the Roswell crash was real and that aliens have contacted humans several times, but that governments have hidden the truth for 60 years stating, "I happen to have been privileged enough to be in on the fact that we've been visited on this planet, and the UFO phenomenon is real." In reply, a spokesman for NASA stated, "NASA does not track UFOs. NASA is not involved in any sort of cover up about alien life on this planet or anywhere in the universe. Dr Mitchell is a great American, but we do not share his opinions on this issue."

In an interview with Fox News on July 25, 2008, Mitchell clarified that his comments did not involve NASA, but quoted unnamed sources, since deceased, at Roswell who confided to him that the Roswell incident did involve an alien craft. Mitchell also claims to have subsequently received confirmation from an unnamed intelligence officer at the Pentagon.

Edgar Mitchell UFO interview on Kerrang Radio 23 july 2008

edgar mitchel at larry king on the roswell cover up

Edgar Mitchell on UFOs at Press Conference

[Cindi]

It was exactly 50 years ago yesterday that John Glenn made history in space.  On Feb. 20, 1962, Glenn became the first American to orbit Earth when his Friendship 7 capsule zipped around our planet three times, then splashed down safely in the Atlantic Ocean. Glenn's flight put the United States back on even footing with the Soviet Union, which had launched the first manned orbital flight in April 1961.

Senator Glenn had some interesting comments on the TV show Frasier. Here is the verbatim transcript of Senator John Glenn on "Fraser" Tuesday, March 6, 2001:

"Back in those glory days, I was very uncomfortable when they asked us to say things we didn't want to say and deny other things. Some people asked, you know, were you alone out there? We never gave the real answer, and yet we see things out there, strange things, but we know what we saw out there. And we couldn't really say anything. The bosses were really afraid of this, they were afraid of the War of the Worlds type stuff, and about panic in the streets. So, we had to keep quiet. And now we only see these things in our nightmares or maybe in the movies, and some of them are pretty close to being the truth."

The entire plot of the show was designed to support John Glenn's appearance. Fraser was jealous of John Glenn and felt competitive about sharing airtime on the radio. In the pivotal scene, Fraser and a female character were arguing with each other inside of an isolated sound room while Glenn faced the camera directly and delivered the above soliloquy. The entire scene had a very strange, non-comedic feeling and seemed to have nothing to do with what the rest of the show was about.

After Glenn finished delivering the speech, he returned to the control room where Fraser and the woman were arguing. At this point he realizes that he was being taped and says that he needs to take the tape; he was unaware that he was being recorded and this information "can't get out to the public."

The complete Frasier episode with John Glenn:

frasier docu drama

[Cindi]

Air Force Major Jesse Marcel, his son, Wright-Patterson Air Force Base, a UFO author and a debunker on the Roswell crash in 1947:

Randle vs Klass

[Extremepredjudice]

Sorry for the long post. I wanted to put the whole part that is pertinent

Roswell crash:
http://www.npr.org/templates/transcript/transcript.php?storyId=136356848

So let's get to the conspiracy theory about unidentified flying objects. First of all, you point out that, for instance, the Oxcart that was being tested in Area 51 was so fast and so unusual-looking for its time that anybody seeing that would think oh, it's a UFO. And there were other vehicles being tested at Area 51 people might think was a UFO. So that's part of where you think this conspiracy theory comes from about covering up UFOs. Yes?

Ms. JACOBSEN: Absolutely. And there is lots of documentation in the CIA archives that support this idea, going back to its second director, General Walter Bedell Smith, who himself was obsessed with UFO - what he called UFO hysteria in the nation and he felt that it was a threat to national security because people's susceptibility to hysteria could make the nation's early air defense warning system vulnerable to what he felt was a real Soviet attack. And he actually believed that that was a strategy that the Soviet Union had in play in the mid-1950s.

GROSS: Now there was an unidentified flying object that crash landed in Roswell, New Mexico in 1947 and the remains were brought back to Area 51 for investigation in 1951. And I think that you believe that this crash landing is really central to the whole UFO conspiracy theory that is so popular in America. And Roswell figures very heavily into that conspiracy theory, that it was all covered up. So what can you tell us about this unidentified flying object that did not come from outer space - that was not created and flown by aliens?

Ms. JACOBSEN: Well, Terry, this is the end of my book and it's obviously controversial and shocking at the same time.

GROSS: Let's start before the most controversial shocking stuff. And let's get to the Horten brothers who are believed to have designed this flying object. Who were they?

Ms. JACOBSEN: The UFO craze began in America in the summer of 1947. And several months later, the G2 intelligence, which was the Army Intelligence Corps at the time, spent an enormous amount of time and treasure seeking out two former Third Reich aerospace designers named Walter and Reimar Horten who had allegedly created this flying disc. And these are all documents that are declassified by the Defense Intelligence Agency now, and they're part of a program that was called Operation Harass. It's a 300-page file which shows that these American intelligence agents fanned out across Europe seeking the Horten brothers to find out if, in fact, they had made this flying disc.

GROSS: So what did you learn about what the purpose of this flying disc, that is believed to be created by the Horten brothers, was?

Ms. JACOBSEN: Well, the government was obviously concerned that they had created a flying disc. And if you go to the National Archives, you can see some photographs of the Horten brothers' airplanes that, some of which the U.S. government confiscated and some of which they just confiscated the photographs. And you see that as early as the - 1942, the Horten brothers were working with kind of like parabolic-shaped flying craft. So they had gotten three quarters of a circle.

One of the German scientists described it as a cake with a slice cut out of it. And obviously the government was concerned that the Horten brothers had made a flying disc and that that could possibly account for some of the sightings of these flying discs which were being seen by thousands of Americans in the 1940s - late 1940s and early '50s and were causing kind of hysteria/panic.

GROSS: And this flying disc could hover. It wasn't always in motion, which was considered quite a technological breakthrough. Do you think that these discs were intended to ultimately be used for spying and surveillance?

Ms. JACOBSEN: Well, there's what I think and then there's what my source told me. And I think it's important, as I write in the book, to differentiate between that. I very clearly make a decision to tell you what the source told me. And in the epilogue of my book I offer some of what I think may have happened. But I do also want to clarify that nowhere in any government documentation that I came across has the government ever discussed this hover-and-fly technology in a declassified manner.

And that is what makes my source's allegations controversial, because according to him, one of these flying saucers did come over into the United States, it did crash, he worked as one of the five engineers who reverse engineered it, and according to him, it did have the hover-and-fly technology and we have had that hover-and-fly technology all along.

GROSS: So are the Horten brothers and their flying disc, is that all classified or is that, any of that unclassified? Just trying to get a sense of how much of this is from sources and how much of this you were able to read in official documents.

Ms. JACOBSEN: In official documents there's a lot of information about the Horten brothers, their flying crafts. They were best known for being the inventors of the flying wing. And there is some information about their parabolic-shaped airplanes. What is separate and what is new to the reporting that I do in the book is that the Horten brothers were involved in the flying disc that crashed in New Mexico.

GROSS: Okay. And that's from sources.

Ms. JACOBSEN: That is from a source.

GROSS: From a source.

My guest is Annie Jacobsen, author of the new book "Area 51."

We'll talk more after a break. This is FRESH AIR.

(Soundbite of music)

GROSS: My guest is Annie Jacobsen, author of the new book "Area 51," about the secret military research facility located within the Nevada Test and Training Range. The book is based in part on interviews with people who worked at Area 51. The base's secrecy has made it fertile ground for conspiracy theories. When we left off, we were talking about the conspiracy theory alleging a cover-up of a UFO that crash-landed in Roswell, New Mexico. One of her sources told her that a flying disc did crash at Roswell in 1947, but it wasn't an alien spaceship. The military believed the flying disc was created by two German aerospace engineers, Reimar and Walter Horten.

Now this source that you have told you some amazing things that are kind of hard to believe, and I don't know what to make of it, honestly. So, the most extraordinary stuff I think that he told you has to do with who was in this flying disc. So tell us what he told you.

Ms. JACOBSEN: Well, I want to back up for one moment, and just speak about my sources, because it's important that I distinguish the fact that all of the sources came to me from one another. Everyone came by referral. They are part of a formerly secret group of scientists, engineers and physicists who were out in the desert working on these various projects. And they all had different levels of need to know on different projects, so what one knew the other did not know. And out of all of the sources, as I write in the book, they would often say to me, I can't discuss that. That's classified.

And I had this unusual, extraordinary moment when one of the sources began to become very upset and told me some things that were stunning, and this is what you're talking about in the end of the book that's almost impossible to believe at first read. And that is that a flying disc really did crash in New Mexico. And that it was transported to Wright-Patterson Air Force Base, and then in 1951 it was transferred to Area 51, which is why the base is called Area 51. And the stunning part about this reveal was that my source, who I absolutely believe and worked with for 18 months on this, was one of the engineers who received the equipment - he refers to it as equipment - and he also received the people who were in the craft. And so...

GROSS: Do you mean the remains of the people in the craft?

Ms. JACOBSEN: The people were - according to the source - the people in the craft who were child-sized pilots, and there's a lot of debate about how old they were. He believes that they were 13, although other people believe that they may have been older. But this is a firsthand witness to this and, you know, I made a decision to write about this in book at the very end of the book, after I take the traditional journalist form of telling you everything, all the stories in the third person, I switch and I kind of lean in to the reader and I say, look, this is not why Area 51 is classified to the point where no one in the government will admit it exists. The reason is, because of what one man told me. And then using the first person, I tell you what I was told. And there is no doubt that people are going to be upset, alarmed and skeptical of this information, but I absolutely believe the veracity of my source, and I believe that it was important that I put this information out there as relayed to me by him, because it is the tip of a very big iceberg.

And what he says is that the child-sized aviators in this craft were the result of a Soviet human experimentation program, and they had been made to look like aliens a la Orson Welles' "War of the Worlds."

GROSS: So if your source is right and if there were human beings engineered to look like aliens within this aircraft that crash-landed at Roswell, what was the point? Why would the Russians want to send a vehicle with humans engineered to look like space aliens?

Ms. JACOBSEN: When the Orson Welles radio broadcast "The War of the Worlds" aired in 1938, people on the East Coast actually took actions based on their belief that Martians had landed in New Jersey and were attacking. And this fascinated the American military - I source all this in my book - and led to a lot of behind-the-scenes thinking about what it meant that American citizens could be so moved by something that was fictional - that was science fiction. And across the pond, Hitler also paid attention to "The War of the Worlds." He referenced it in a speech. And according to my source, Stalin also paid attention to "The War of the Worlds" and was fascinated by American susceptibility toward science fiction. And so his plan, according to my source, was to create panic in the United States with this belief that a UFO had landed with aliens inside of it.

And Terry, one of the most interesting documents that I encourage people to look at is the second CIA director, General Walter Bedell Smith, memos back and forth to the National Security Council in the early '50s, talking about how the fear is that the Soviets could make a hoax against America, involving a UFO, and overload our early air defense warning system, making America vulnerable to an attack. My read of General Walter Bedell Smith's documents are that it was actually another hoax.

GROSS: So the goal was to just - make it seem like there really were UFOs? Is that what you're saying?

Ms. JACOBSEN: Yes. That is according to the source.

GROSS: Okay, now here's something in the story that makes no sense to me. What you write is that the 13-year-old, or older, pilots...

(Soundbite of music)

GROSS: Okay, now here's something in the story that makes no sense to me. What you write is that the 13-year-old or older pilots who were basically genetically designed to look like children - to not really grow, and to look like aliens - that this was part of an experiment by the Nazi Dr. Josef Mengele, and Stalin made a deal with him after the war that Mengele could continue to work on eugenics programs, on his crazy human experiments, but do it for the Soviet Union. Now, since this takes place in 1947, how would Mengele have had time to create even a 13-year-old? That would go back to 1934, that he would have had started working on this in 1934.

Ms. JACOBSEN: Well, I would beg to differ on that, because I - and the reason that I say genetically/surgically altered is because my source is unclear, because remember that's secondhand information to him. What is firsthand information is that he worked with these bodies, and he was an eyewitness to the horror of seeing them and working with them. Where they actually came from is obviously the subject of debate. But if you look at the timeline with Mengele, he left Auschwitz in January of 1945 and disappeared for a while. And the suggestion by the source is that Mengele had already sort of cut his losses with the Third Reich at that point and was working with Stalin.

GROSS: Mm-hmm. So you're saying that these children were surgically altered.

Ms. JACOBSEN: I am repeating what the source told me is that...

GROSS: Right. That he's saying. I'm sorry. He's saying that they were surgically altered.

Ms. JACOBSEN: Yeah. Or genetically. It's unclear. What he is absolutely clear about is that the iconic images that we have now of aliens with the big head and the nose and the eyes, that is actually what the child-size pilots looked like. And what I asked my source over and over again, where my skepticism came in was, why, originally in 1947, when this craft supposedly crashed with these grotesque humans in it, why on earth didn't President Truman hold a press conference to show what a horrible, evil, abhorrent man Joseph Stalin was, to be working with Dr. Mengele?

And the source's answer - which took a very long time - was ultimately: because we decided to do the same thing. And that the head of the program - who my source says was a man named Vannevar Bush, who had also been in charge of the Manhattan Project, decided that it was important to figure out what the Soviets had done. And so we began our own rogue program with human experiments. And this, says the source, is why it's all secret.

[Cindi]

Sorry for the long post. I wanted to put the whole part that is pertinent

Roswell crash:
http://www.npr.org/templates/transcript/transcript.php?storyId=136356848

Annie Jacobsen claims she talked to Area 51 workers and cannot even pronounce the name of the state right. The author has 13 year olds piloting flying discs, maybe they are new Civil Air Patrol cadets? Here is the interview on audio.

http://www.npr.org/player/v2/mediaPlayer.html?action=1&t=1&islist=false&id=136356848&m=136356931

Author Annie Jacobsen would have more credibility if she could pronounce Nevada correctly:

Nevada pronounce it right - NBC News



I have heard a lot of nut theories, but Annie Jacobsen takes the cake. One nut theory is that the moon landings were staged from a studio in Las Vegas or Area 51. Tell these stories to Air Force Colonel Buzz Aldrin, the second man that walked on the moon:



Astronaut Buzz Aldrin Recounts Apollo 11 UFO Encounter

[Extremepredjudice]

Ruling people incorrect because they pronouce something incorrectly doesn't automatically make them incorrect.

I don't know about the credibility of the author, I just remembered it from the radio...

[Cindi]

Ruling people incorrect because they pronouce something incorrectly doesn't automatically make them incorrect.

I don't know about the credibility of the author, I just remembered it from the radio...

That's true. Thanks for posting that interview, much appreciated! I had never heard of the author before. I was at a George Bush #2 speech in Nevada when he mispronounced the name of the state. The speech was going great up to that moment, lol.

Look at how quickly the crowd turns on the First Lady when she misprounces Nevada. I thought she handled it well:

Michelle Obama - CNN - say Nevada - pronounce Nevada

[Cindi]

Call me old fashioned, but I think we should strictly follow the US Constitution. For example, the President of the United States should be born here:



Obama: Born On Krypton

[Cindi]

Nevada can be a little strange. There is this prophet here who hears voices in his head. He called the local TV station and told them he could summon UFOs. The TV station picked the time and the place. When the UFO showed up and headed up to Nellis Air Force Base, Nellis had no comment:

Las Vegas UFO Guy on NEWS

[ColonelJack]

Not to specifically "bump" this thread or anything, but I must share what took place in my classroom today (one of my many ways of making a living is as a 7th grade Social Studies teacher):

Somehow, the topic of UFOs came up in our class discussion, and one of my students yelled out, "There's no such thing as UFOs!"

I waited until the tumult died down, then asked her, "Do you know what a UFO is?"

She said, "No, sir ..."

I said, "It's something you see in the sky that you can't identify.  To you, it's an Unidentified Flying Object.  But just because you don't know what it is, doesn't mean nobody knows what it is.  Most UFO sightings are easily and correctly explained as natural or human-made phenomena."

She was aghast.  "You mean a UFO and a flying saucer aren't the same thing?"

I couldn't keep a straight face any longer, and we all had a good laugh.  She came away with a bit of aerospace education (things fly that you might not be able to identify, but that doesn't mean they come from Mars or somewhere else).

Jack

[Майор Хаткевич]

Why is it, in this age of 8mp/1080p cameras on cell phones and night vision being available to anyone with cash that the only UFO and Bigfoot photos are blurry, grainy, and impossible to make sense of? :angel:

Ever get that cell phone 8MP camera on in a hurry? Typically after the first 3-5 blurry shots the one good shot is long past the thing I was trying to catch a picture of.

[Cindi]

U.S. Senator Barry Goldwater was one of the more prominent American politicians to openly show an interest in UFOs. Goldwater was a USAF reserve Major General and ran for president in 1964 against Lyndon Johnson.

On March 28, 1975, Goldwater wrote to Shlomo Arnon: "The subject of UFOs has interested me for some long time. About ten or twelve years ago I made an effort to find out what was in the building at Wright-Patterson Air Force Base where the information has been stored that has been collected by the Air Force, and I was understandably denied this request. It is still classified above Top Secret." Goldwater further wrote that there were rumors the evidence would be released, and that he was "just as anxious to see this material as you are, and I hope we will not have to wait much longer."

The April 25, 1988, issue of The New Yorker carried an interview where Goldwater said he repeatedly asked his friend, Gen. Curtis LeMay, if there was any truth to the rumors that UFO evidence was stored in a secret room at Wright-Patterson Air Force Base, and if he (Goldwater) might have access to the room. According to Goldwater, an angry LeMay gave him "holy hell" and said, "Not only can't you get into it but don't you ever mention it to me again."

In a 1988 interview on Larry King's radio show, Goldwater was asked if he thought the U.S. Government was withholding UFO evidence; he replied "Yes, I do." He added:

   "I certainly believe in aliens in space. They may not look like us, but I have very strong feelings that they have advanced beyond our mental capabilities....I think some highly secret government UFO investigations are going on that we don't know about – and probably never will unless the Air Force discloses them."






Barry Goldwater on Curtis Lemay and UFOs

Arizona Senator Barry Goldwater's collection of 145 pages of UFO letters has now been posted. Goldwater, a USAF reserve Major General, who also sat as the Chairman of the Senate Intelligence Committee had a long standing interest in the UFO subject.

The collection of letters include many letters that talk about his attempt to get access to the "blue room" at Wright Patterson Air Force Base where he was told by his long time friend General Curtis Lemay that he couldn't go in and Goldwater certainly couldn't go in either.

The collection also contains letters with UFO researchers such as Ron Regehr, Dr. Steven Greer, Dr. James McDonald, Lee Graham, and Don Berliner. There is also a key letter written to Goldwater by Marie Galbraith who directed the "Best Available Evidence" report that was prepared for Laurance Rockefeller in 1996.

Three documents not pulled from the collection have been added to give context to the documents in the Blue Room section of documents. One was a section of an April 25, 1988 New Yorker magazine article where Goldwater is quoted as saying that he was getting 100 calls a year from people asking him to look into the Blue Room rumor. The second two documents consist of a FOIA (and reply) made by researcher Bill Moore to WPAFB on the Blue Room. Missing (to be added shortly) is a "Blue Room Radar Scope" document that Bill Moore obtained from the Falcon that was attached to the FOIA.

Barry Goldwater documents: http://www.presidentialufo.com/barry-goldwater-ufo/cat_view/105-goldwater-ufo-documents

[Cindi]

Barry Goldwater on Curtis Lemay and UFOs

[Extremepredjudice]

Ok so we have this secret building that no one can go into, who cleans it, who maintains it, and who moves these large (I am assuming some items are pretty big) items into it?

Maybe find those people and asking them.

[SarDragon]

Ok so we have this secret building that no one can go into, who cleans it, who maintains it, and who moves these large (I am assuming some items are pretty big) items into it?

Maybe find those people and asking them.

Maybe you ought to look up security clearance, and see what all having one entails. Asking these people questions isn't as simple as you're making it.

[Extremepredjudice]

Ok so we have this secret building that no one can go into, who cleans it, who maintains it, and who moves these large (I am assuming some items are pretty big) items into it?

Maybe find those people and asking them.

Maybe you ought to look up security clearance, and see what all having one entails. Asking these people questions isn't as simple as you're making it.

Cause we all know people with security clearances don't EVER EVER talk.

I was thinking a different angle.

[saleet]

For those of you who do not know about CAP's actual tasking to report UFO's.  CAPR 50-4 dated 13 NOV 1959 Civil Air Patrol Reporting of Unidentified Flying Objects and Sea Going Vessels.  CAP was to report all observations of UFO's.

This was during the height of the 1950's UFO sightings. 

[Cindi]

UFO's and the Presidents:

UFO's And Presidents

Presidential candidate Barry Goldwater, Curtis LeMay and UFOs:

Barry Goldwater on Curtis Lemay and UFOs

[Struts]

Another mission of CAP that you would never know about...

[James Shaw]

Ok so we have this secret building that no one can go into, who cleans it, who maintains it, and who moves these large (I am assuming some items are pretty big) items into it?

Maybe find those people and asking them.

As someone who had a TS / SCI clearance this is not a task you would want to endeavor. These folks are required to report anytime someone asks them a question about the work they do. This could get alot of folks in trouble. Including the person asking the questions. The security personnel, even the housekeeping folks are required to have a security clearance. If you want to find out more just pick up many of the thousands of books that make alot of assumptions.

The government will test you on this as well.

Have fun with the research and dig.....